Boost Specters to the level of "EXERGIS goes brrrrr" (not so long ago)

[Scar.brother.help.me]

 I'm not gonna cry about Reload glitch that was fixed on specters a while ago. I knew it was coming and was having fun for as long as I could. 

For those who didn't know - before the last update you could tell your tenno specter to "hold" and they didn't have a reload animation on many (not all) weapons. Top Tier was [Exergis] a 1 shot magazine corpus shotgun. Since Specters can't use any mods, this weapon is the best choice - raw damage, no crits and as a bonus high status chance per pellet. Since there was no reload - Specter was shooting it much faster and if you play Wisp - you could place a haste mote near it and you got yourself a pretty strong "turret". And it scaled with enemy level when you resummon it. It was pretty useful in Steel Path. It was NOT OP in any way, but it was relevant, it was worth bothering. For me it was kind of a weak pocket version of  Mesa. It didn't kill them all but it helped me to clear out weak enemies pretty effectively.

 My request is to boost all of our specters to the level of that damage where they become useful and worth grinding for (Clem weekly, Baro Corrupted specters, Syndicate units like MOAs, Lancers, Drones, Rescue missions for Tenno Specters). If they start dealing ~10 times more damage, they will become useful. Right now they are a joke and not worth investment at all.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb Scar.brother.help.me:

 I'm not gonna cry about Reload glitch that was fixed on specters a while ago. I knew it was coming and was having fun for as long as I could. 

For those who didn't know - before the last update you could tell your tenno specter to "hold" and they didn't have a reload animation on many (not all) weapons. Top Tier was [Exergis] a 1 shot magazine corpus shotgun. Since Specters can't use any mods, this weapon is the best choice - raw damage, no crits and as a bonus high status chance per pellet. Since there was no reload - Specter was shooting it much faster and if you play Wisp - you could place a haste mote near it and you got yourself a pretty strong "turret". And it scaled with enemy level when you resummon it. It was pretty useful in Steel Path. It was NOT OP in any way, but it was relevant, it was worth bothering. For me it was kind of a weak pocket version of  Mesa. It didn't kill them all but it helped me to clear out weak enemies pretty effectively.

 My request is to boost all of our specters to the level of that damage where they become useful and worth grinding for (Clem weekly, Baro Corrupted specters, Syndicate units like MOAs, Lancers, Drones, Rescue missions for Tenno Specters). If they start dealing ~10 times more damage, they will become useful. Right now they are a joke and not worth investment at all.

Yes. pets are also for the garbage can. especially with the current AI.

and at wukong 1st it works. why not the same everywhere ...? for afk people you can put a lot of stones in the way. but they play with wukong and macros ...

[Drasiel]

Don't tenno spectres use the mod setup you build them with? Doesn't that mean the effectiveness of their gun is entirely up to you and your build already?

[Leqesai]

22 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Don't tenno spectres use the mod setup you build them with? Doesn't that mean the effectiveness of their gun is entirely up to you and your build already?

They do not. 

[Drasiel]

8 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

They do not. 

Then the question should become: Why don't they. that seems like it should be a natural evolution of the system

[Scar.brother.help.me]

29 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Then the question should become: Why don't they. that seems like it should be a natural evolution of the system

kinda yeah but I mean all other specters and specters also have one big thing - they scale to enemy level, so if their normal damage is boosted to some level when they are able to kill enemies at a rate they worth the effort - they will be ok everywhere as they are

it would be fun to mod them and stuff, but then it is pretty ez to make them OP and then it needs balancing/nerfing, etc, they are not important for DE to bother on that lvl obviously, so just a boost of their base damage would do the trick (may be better to balance them individually, i.e. Corrupted Bombard from Baro that costs Ducats - absolutely sucks and projectiles fly superslow, his damade is so low that Corruped Lancer, Moa or a drone from syndicates overdamages him big time and even if all get a x10 damage buff he is still not going to be worth the Ducats). But compare him to enemy Bombards that can oneshot you with your sentinel (2 shot if shieldgate)

if we talk about customisations - i'd be happy to fashion them (not only Tenno specters but to paint others as well) so they are my little army

[Leqesai]

29 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Then the question should become: Why don't they. that seems like it should be a natural evolution of the system

Because a fully modded Tenno specter is extremely overpowered... 

Even without mods Tenno specters are very very powerful.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Because a fully modded Tenno specter is extremely overpowered... 

Even without mods Tenno specters are very very powerful.

oh come on, they are barely ok, not very very powerful. they were powerful with brrrrr exergis, but not very very

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

oh come on, they are barely ok, not very very powerful. they were powerful with brrrrr exergis, but not very very

An Octavia specter can scale damage infinitely...

A Wisp specter can substitute defensive strats for nearly every mission type

The fact that Tenno specters can essentially fill the role of another player/loadout makes them very very powerful. 

I'm not saying they are overpowered. I am just saying they are already very very powerful.

Imagine an octavia modded for max str/range...

or a specter with a fully modded kuva bramma...

Remember, specter stats scale with their level so modded loadouts would quickly become ridiculous. Even with how things are now tenno specters are competitive even in steel path. That's more than can be said about most companions.

 

[Drasiel]

28 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Because a fully modded Tenno specter is extremely overpowered... 

Even without mods Tenno specters are very very powerful.

Then you limit the amount of mods based on the level of the spectre. With the max rank spectre getting I dunno 6/8 mods total so not as good as a player but still really competent.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

24 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

An Octavia specter can scale damage infinitely...

A Wisp specter can substitute defensive strats for nearly every mission type

The fact that Tenno specters can essentially fill the role of another player/loadout makes them very very powerful. 

I'm not saying they are overpowered. I am just saying they are already very very powerful.

Imagine an octavia modded for max str/range...

or a specter with a fully modded kuva bramma...

Remember, specter stats scale with their level so modded loadouts would quickly become ridiculous. Even with how things are now tenno specters are competitive even in steel path. That's more than can be said about most companions.

 

ah, you mean their abilities, I know right, I use Nidus link to place more powerful Motes. This topic is only about their firepower, it is about weapon damage of every specter not just tenno. All I wish for is for Corrupted Lancer, MOA, Drone, Clem and Tenno specters do some decent damage, that's all. Tenno Specters with bugged Exergis were good enough but never were OP, they helped to clear enemies a bit faster than if you did it all by yourself. Still not even close to some Saryn or Mesa, but it was a good help solo.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

16 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Then you limit the amount of mods based on the level of the spectre. With the max rank spectre getting I dunno 6/8 mods total so not as good as a player but still really competent.

As I said - would be lots of fun but imagine how much work it takes to implement it. Compare it to keep them as they are and just increase their base damage to the point where they start to matter.

[Drasiel]

1 minute ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

As I said - would be lots of fun but imagine how much work it takes to implement it. Compare it to keep them as they are and just increase their base damage to the point where they start to matter.

DE are adding a system where npc crewmates exist that we can mod the weapons of. Previously when dark sectors were active there was a mod selection limitation in place. What it did was activate your mods top left to bottom right as you "ranked" up in the mission. This means there is already code from previous things and new code coming that could be implemented for this. The most work would probably be in the UI but even then the basics are in place for tenno spectres already.

Non tenno spectres should just get a boost though.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

1 minute ago, Drasiel said:

DE are adding a system where npc crewmates exist that we can mod the weapons of. Previously when dark sectors were active there was a mod selection limitation in place. What it did was activate your mods top left to bottom right as you "ranked" up in the mission. This means there is already code from previous things and new code coming that could be implemented for this. The most work would probably be in the UI but even then the basics are in place for tenno spectres already.

Non tenno spectres should just get a boost though.

Well I wouldn't mind that... why would i
 

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

An Octavia specter can scale damage infinitely...

A Wisp specter can substitute defensive strats for nearly every mission type

The fact that Tenno specters can essentially fill the role of another player/loadout makes them very very powerful. 

 to add, a protea specter means you don't need to worry about running energy/ammo management stuff

[Voltage]

We should not encourage building mechanics to play the game for you. This isn't Cookie Clicker.

I am honestly on the other end. All specters should be removed from the game unless a support (Ospreys, Healers, etc).

[LillyRaccune]

4 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I'm not gonna cry about Reload glitch that was fixed on specters a while ago.

Fixed on specters, but not fixed on Corpus Juno units. They can still fire the Exergis incredibly fast. Maybe it has to do with an aura buff from nearby eximus units, but they should not be allowed to spam 3-4 RPS.

As for specter mechanics, we'll have to see what happens when Hired Crew and Liches become a normal part of combat. Maybe DE will change or eliminate the nature of specters. The Solar Rails and Orokin Labs are closed for business, maybe our needs have changed. I'll miss using Trinity or Wisp specters, it's a rare event when I even need them, but I'll get over it.

It would be interesting if, instead of my Smeeta, I could equip Deedo Doskuub to be my companion. But only if he has Vacuum!

[Tesseract7777]

You will see a lot of resistance from the dev team on this.

Making specters and pets too good for combat will make the game more like Homer's Drinking Bird.

Steve has been pounding that poor, deceased pony since Viver. And he will not stop beating its corpse until you all stop asking for the game to play the game for you. 

[DrivaMain]

42 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Steve has been pounding that poor, deceased pony since Viver. And he will not stop beating its corpse until you all stop asking for the game to play the game for you. 

Yet DE invests a lot of time developing command intrinsics that basically plays half of Railjack for you and Wukong 2.0 exist.  
 

Specters are already too good for combat I am suprised that DE hasn’t even whack them with the nerf hammer. They don’t need more power. Though, I do want to change specter setup on the fly without having to re-craft them again. 8 hours to switch is irritating.

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Yet DE invests a lot of time developing command intrinsics that basically plays half of Railjack for you and Wukong 2.0 exist.  
 

Specters are already too good for combat I am suprised that DE hasn’t even whack them with the nerf hammer. They don’t need more power. Though, I do want to change specter setup on the fly without having to re-craft them again. 8 hours to switch is irritating.

I agree DE is inconsistent a lot, but I sort of understand the point with RJ. 

It felt too inaccessible to the type of people who tend to play solo. 

I feel like it is more about making it less crazy for solo players to get started in RJ and play it at all, not so much the intention (even if it turns out to have unintended consequences) to have the game play itself for you. 

But I do understand what you are getting at. 

[OmegaVoid]

Are we intended to view Spectres as a tool... or as a crutch?

Spectres draw off a lot of enemy aggro and if you bring the right one, their Abilities are useful.

Generally, for players who haven't yet scaled the heady heights of power, a Spectre can be more than worth the investment, and make the difference between success and failure in crucial missions like Sortie 3 or a Kuva Flood.

For players who have progressed further, the same Spectre will be less practical use -- but the crafting costs have become trivial.

View it that way and Spectres look pretty well-balanced -- expensive while they still make a big difference, and cheap when they don't.

3 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

They don’t need more power. Though, I do want to change specter setup on the fly without having to re-craft them again. 8 hours to switch is irritating.

This.

Really, I'd be fine with paying the crafting cost again, but I feel that if the player already has the same tier of Spectre crafted, the time for replacing them should be reduced concomittantly. Different missions benefit from different Warframe Spectres, and things like Sorties and Steel Path Incursions by nature aren't something you can plan ahead for.

5 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Fixed on specters, but not fixed on Corpus Juno units.

This is probably how things are still done, then.

I don't think enemies should ever be relieved of the need to reload, and I'd probably make a hobby-horse of the point if I haeted typing less and the game didn't IMHO have more obvious issues to address.

[Steel_Rook]

Judging by the Railjack 3.0 trailer, they'll be letting us give our Railjack crew use of our own weapons from the Arsenal. I don't see why Spectres can't get that, as well. Honestly, it feels like Spectres exist as they are to justify buying and building different "levels" of them. Personally, I say merge all the Spectres into just one, let us equip it like we would our own Warframe and let that be that.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

On 2021-03-17 at 5:06 PM, LillyRaccune said:

Fixed on specters, but not fixed on Corpus Juno units. They can still fire the Exergis incredibly fast. Maybe it has to do with an aura buff from nearby eximus units, but they should not be allowed to spam 3-4 RPS.

As for specter mechanics, we'll have to see what happens when Hired Crew and Liches become a normal part of combat. Maybe DE will change or eliminate the nature of specters. The Solar Rails and Orokin Labs are closed for business, maybe our needs have changed. I'll miss using Trinity or Wisp specters, it's a rare event when I even need them, but I'll get over it.

It would be interesting if, instead of my Smeeta, I could equip Deedo Doskuub to be my companion. But only if he has Vacuum!

On console, specters still spam fire the exergis btw.

Its been consistent for my brother and I

[Taiepii]

Because of how specter adapt to mission level. 
Buffing them might be overpower. For endurance run, specter are already broken. When you go above level 1000. The specter will deal way more damage than you. 
To be honest there damage/tank ration is fine at it is. 
What missing though is more control over the specters. Its kinda handy to control them properly. 

Btw Im sorry to hear your Exergis nerf. But trust me, there are plenty of weapon worth using/ even better than Exergis in some context. You just gotta find what those gun are. 
Just know, that weapon that might feel powerfull in player hand, might be weak on specter, and vise versa.  1 exemple any weapon with hard fall off damage on distance, doesn't apply for specters. Specter dont have damage fall off at all. There are many other condition. 
Knowing that might help you find some decent weapon out of the list. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-03-21 at 9:47 AM, Taiepii said:

Because of how specter adapt to mission level. 
Buffing them might be overpower. For endurance run, specter are already broken. When you go above level 1000. The specter will deal way more damage than you. 
To be honest there damage/tank ration is fine at it is. 
What missing though is more control over the specters. Its kinda handy to control them properly. 

Btw Im sorry to hear your Exergis nerf. But trust me, there are plenty of weapon worth using/ even better than Exergis in some context. You just gotta find what those gun are. 
Just know, that weapon that might feel powerfull in player hand, might be weak on specter, and vise versa.  1 exemple any weapon with hard fall off damage on distance, doesn't apply for specters. Specter dont have damage fall off at all. There are many other condition. 
Knowing that might help you find some decent weapon out of the list. 

I have back up weps, I've been testing a lot (8h of crafting though is a time gating), but they all are at least 1/5th of that brrr power. If you have any hints - I'll appreciate.