Steel Path Acolyte spawns

[sitfesz]

End our suffering and lower the acolyte spawns already to a reasonable time or make them trigger when the extraction becomes available.

I know you want to make mission timers artifically longer and slow us down to see those well arranged pixels, but being afk 2-3 times longer than it took to finish the objective is not fun. Usually a non-endless mission is done in a few minutes and I had acolytes spawning after minutes 6, or not even after minute 7 (I didn't wait any longer than 7).

I know I'm not alone with this feeling, because people in public daily SP missions just extract like they can't care less about the acolyte waiting room.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

You're not supposed to be playing the game afk....maybe try actually actively playing the game....because acolytes spawn by killing enemies.....my acolytes spawn at the 3 to 5 min mark on survival. 

Obviously....if you do an SP alert mission and it's a capture and the team just rushes to the objective and leaves, the acolyte has a smaller chance to spawn. 

 

[sitfesz]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You're not supposed to be playing the game afk....maybe try actually actively playing the game....because acolytes spawn by killing enemies.....my acolytes spawn at the 3 to 5 min mark on survival. 

Obviously....if you do an SP alert mission and it's a capture and the team just rushes to the objective and leaves, the acolyte has a smaller chance to spawn. 

 

By playing the game you mean the intense gameplay of killing the 30 enemies before the hardcore locker opening for the rest of the mission after you are done with the objective in 3 minutes in a non-endless mission?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, sitfesz said:

By playing the game you mean the intense gameplay of killing the 30 enemies before the hardcore locker opening for the rest of the mission after you are done with the objective in 3 minutes in a non-endless mission?

It's more intense than rushing to the objective, and sitting around waiting for the acolyte to spawn like the OP is suggesting he's doing. 

[sitfesz]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's more intense than rushing to the objective, and sitting around waiting for the acolyte to spawn like the OP is suggesting he's doing. 

Well no, because just sitting and waiting for the timer opens up time for activities outside warframe that are better than hitting boxes and running around waiting.

Anyway where did you get that acolytes will spawn faster if you kill enemies? It's not confirmed anywhere, just a rumor by you. If they actually spawn faster, there should be implemented a progress bar indicating the spawn.

[Genitive]

Just now, sitfesz said:

Well no, because just sitting and waiting for the timer opens up time for activities outside warframe that are better than hitting boxes and running around waiting.

Then why play at all?

[sitfesz]

5 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Then why play at all?

I don't understand your question. I would like to play the game instead of waiting. Locker opening and wandering around is not the game.

The long timer system promotes outside warframe activity, which implies the design is flawed in non-endless missions, so people instead ignore acolytes and extract to do other missions where they can play active. You should have asked "Why play around acolyte timers at all?", and that loops back to my main suggestion about cutting their spawn timer or linking it to objectives.

[Genitive]

Just now, sitfesz said:

I don't understand your question. I would like to play the game instead of waiting. Locker opening and wandering around is not the game.

The long timer system promotes outside warframe activity, which implies the design is flawed in non-endless missions, so people instead ignore acolytes and extract to do other missions where they can play active. You should have asked "Why play around acolyte timers at all?", and that loops back to my main suggestion about cutting their spawn timer or linking it to objectives.

I asked because I got the impression that you'd rather do something else than play Warframe. I think it is a valid question if you'd rather idle than engage with the game.

Anyway, I don't know how accurate @(PSN)Madurai-Prime is on killing enemies speeding up acolyte spawn, but I didn't have to wait too long for them either, so maybe there is something to it.

[Bakaguya-sama]

Just now, Genitive said:

Anyway, I don't know how accurate @(PSN)Madurai-Prime is on killing enemies speeding up acolyte spawn, but I didn't have to wait too long for them either, so maybe there is something to it.

It's likely a combination of multiple factors plus some degree randomization (kinda like genetic expressions).  We have no idea cuz DE is pretty tight lipped about it, presumably to prevent people from finding ways to optimize their steel essence farms.   

I have ran SP Mot using the same build (so roughly the same kill rates). Sometimes the Acolytes Spawn at 3 minutes. Sometimes they don't spawn until 7 minutes in. Same goes for non-endless missions ( I have seen them spawn as early as 2:40). I have given up trying to make any sense of it.   

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

It's likely a combination of multiple factors plus some degree randomization (kinda like genetic expressions).  We have no idea cuz DE is pretty tight lipped about it, presumably to prevent people from finding ways to optimize their steel essence farms.   

I have ran SP Mot using the same build (so roughly the same kill rates). Sometimes the Acolytes Spawn at 3 minutes. Sometimes they don't spawn until 7 minutes in. Same goes for non-endless missions ( I have seen them spawn as early as 2:40). I have given up trying to make any sense of it.   

Yeah, sadly, everything has to be random to some degree, can't ever have consistency. I've had cases of two spawning in interception alerts, and cases of zero. Killing doesn't matter as much, it seems, as even when there's high kpm they still sometimes spawn insanely later, and I had them spawn early even with the afk with cc spam and no kills.

Honestly, don't see the big issue with at least making it so non-capture alerts have guaranteed spawns after the objective is complete, or at least appearing around 3 minutes in. It would make it closer to a survival rotation time wise. It makes no sense to blame "rushing" the objective and not killing enemies, when a mission where the objective is killing enemies [exterminate] will run out of enemies long before an acolyte even appears....

[TEddY_g0]

Update 29.5 (2020-11-19)

THE STEEL PATH: ACOLYTES JOIN THE BATTLE & MORE!

• In essence (ha), there is virtually no RNG with Steel Essence anymore. Acolytes will always appear in regular missions (Endlessly in Endless missions.). The time at which they choose to appear may be a bit random, but if you kill mobs, they will come!
  
  This is probably where (PSN)Madurai-Prime got his info from

[-Augustus-]

On 2021-04-15 at 3:15 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

maybe try actually actively playing the game....because acolytes spawn by killing enemies.....my acolytes spawn at the 3 to 5 min mark on survival. 

 

And they'll spawn on that timer even if you haven't killed anything. Don't spout off without actually being right, it misinforms others and should embarrass you.

[TheLexiConArtist]

16 hours ago, -Augustus- said:

And they'll spawn on that timer even if you haven't killed anything. Don't spout off without actually being right, it misinforms others and should embarrass you.

Spawning is based primarily on time elapsed, but also pauses that timer based on lack of combat activity/killing. So, it's not some quantity of kills that progresses an invisible meter, but if you're standing around doing nothing whatsoever, the timer isn't crediting you, and I have witnessed spawns going 'overdue' because kills stopped, only to trigger the exact moment of killing a unit later.

 

Standing around at extraction is not going to spawn acolytes in a timely manner, but if you hang onto some enemies and pick them off gradually, it'll show up when the timer is due. Unless you also hit that one bug they never bothered to fix where a mission state-change completely crashes the acolyte spawn logic.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

The issue with this timer is that Steel Path Incursions were supposed to be there to promote matchmaking on the SP starchart. But if you have to play in a certain way in order to manage this timer (to get the acolyte to spawn), you'd be putting yourself at a disadvantage by starting an Incursion mission in public mode - since you can't rely on whoever joins to make the effort to manage said timer.

So the current timer system for spawning acolytes goes directly against the purpose of the SP Incursions - and therefore needs adjusting.

[-Augustus-]

7 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Spawning is based primarily on time elapsed, but also pauses that timer based on lack of combat activity/killing. So, it's not some quantity of kills that progresses an invisible meter, but if you're standing around doing nothing whatsoever, the timer isn't crediting you, and I have witnessed spawns going 'overdue' because kills stopped, only to trigger the exact moment of killing a unit later.

 

Standing around at extraction is not going to spawn acolytes in a timely manner, but if you hang onto some enemies and pick them off gradually, it'll show up when the timer is due. Unless you also hit that one bug they never bothered to fix where a mission state-change completely crashes the acolyte spawn logic.

It's rare to see so much [citation required] all at once. Good job!

But seriously, you don't have to kill anything to spawn acolytes and can merrily stealth around harming nobody and (absent one of the many spawn bugs for them) they'll still spawn. The timer is also significantly random - sometimes they spawn 2 minutes and change into a round, sometimes the first one only spawns 30 seconds after the start of the second round, etc. That a later spawn happened to coincide with the "exact moment of killing a unit later" means exactly nothing. As you may one day realize, the neither the singular nor the plural of anecdote is data.

[TheLexiConArtist]

34 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

It's rare to see so much [citation required] all at once. Good job!

But seriously, you don't have to kill anything to spawn acolytes and can merrily stealth around harming nobody and (absent one of the many spawn bugs for them) they'll still spawn. The timer is also significantly random - sometimes they spawn 2 minutes and change into a round, sometimes the first one only spawns 30 seconds after the start of the second round, etc. That a later spawn happened to coincide with the "exact moment of killing a unit later" means exactly nothing. As you may one day realize, the neither the singular nor the plural of anecdote is data.

It's ^{[citation needed]}, and applies just as much to your own claims.

I have neither the capability nor had the obligation to record my many, many Incursion runs from which I have learned the behaviour just to satisfy you whom I did not know would exist to be so obstinate in the future.

 

Let me specify a little clearer regarding 'exact moment of killing a unit': That's not just "oh, coincidence within normal spawning time range". That's several minutes past the upper bound and then, the instant those affinity numbers popped up from the overdue kill, the lights flickered. It's not just a one-off occurrence either. I've had to backtrack through Corpus ships to find a stray Turret or camera to pop in order to make the Acolyte show up in the past, before I started more carefully rationing out my kills.

On the other side of the same claim, what about the people who have complained about finishing Exterminate missions to the point where no more enemies will even spawn, doing so before an Acolyte timer is up and therefore being completely unable to trigger the Acolyte because there's nothing left to kill? It's unlikely they're all script bugs, when the most 'reliable' error is on mission-state changes such as Extractors/Conduits finishing or being destroyed. Perhaps that can happen on the final Exterminate kill credit too, but because that's just a one-and-done I haven't experienced it there myself if it's possible, unlike Disruption and Excav fails of which I've seen plenty.

I've also had missions I started, but was alt-tabbed out at the starting tile. Acolytes didn't spawn within their usual timeslot (because I hadn't yet commenced their timer by engaging the enemy). Spawn range of 3-8 minutes became 7-12 (etc). No spawns while stood AFK for longer still (because either they'd still be there or I'd be dead when I got back)

These may be anecdotes, but all empirical experience has pointed to the behaviour hypothesis as stated. Neither of us has the raw code-behind to look at, so we're both only hypothesising from what evidence we anecdotally observe, aren't we?

[whatiswar01]

But even i playing a survival mission that need me to kill a lot of enemy, the acolyte still not spawn faster than usual. I just done a round of incursion with acolyte spawn in 8minutes and 40 second. That's huge amount of waiting, i am really start to lose some passion in playing this game lol.

They just want to drag our time to show to others that warframe player love spending time in this game.

[sitfesz]

On 2021-06-10 at 10:49 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

Neither of us has the raw code-behind to look at

DE literally has and they refuse to let players know on purpose. It's not the first thread and they didn't let us know either in the notes when they changed it

All we know is:

Quote

Acolytes typically spawn in any non-Archwing Steel Path missions once every 3-7 minutes. They are guaranteed to drop 2 Steel Essence upon defeat.

From the wiki, which is not managed by DE.

[sitfesz]

It is said endless missions could go for 8 minutes of active play for an acolyte spawn. It will be changed to 6 minutes of active play.
What is active play? Moving? Killing? Looting? Come on DE, define active play.
And only endless acolyte timer gets touched? What a shame.

Source from dev workshop:

 

[(PSN)NightzeroAX]

That change is useless anyway as they basically killed farming (unless you're one of those 1 and done types).

[(PSN)sieg_valentine]

I was doing a daily SP incursion the other day and it was a mobile defense. After we did 2 terminals the guy with the datamass was afk or just stop moving to the third terminal. We are waiting for him to the terminal killing enemies we even message him what is going on.

After few min the acolyte came and the 3 of us in the terminal killed it. The 4th guy with the datamass then came. The point is going afk just to prolong the mission to spawn the acolyte is just disrespectful. We could have completed the third terminal the acolyte would have spawn eventually. 

[Radu10]

On 2021-06-10 at 10:16 PM, -Augustus- said:

It's rare to see so much [citation required] all at once. Good job!

But seriously, you don't have to kill anything to spawn acolytes and can merrily stealth around harming nobody and (absent one of the many spawn bugs for them) they'll still spawn. The timer is also significantly random - sometimes they spawn 2 minutes and change into a round, sometimes the first one only spawns 30 seconds after the start of the second round, etc. That a later spawn happened to coincide with the "exact moment of killing a unit later" means exactly nothing. As you may one day realize, the neither the singular nor the plural of anecdote is data.

I think their spawn system is similar to kuva lich larva, at certain time you get a little flashing effect, doing certain amount of kills in the right time will make the acolyte spawn.

That would explain why sometimes they don't spawn at all, but that looks like bugged, considering they would still not spawn on the next "rotations".

[sitfesz]

Just ran a corpus hijack steel path daily mission and apparently the rover is faster too than the acolyte spawn.
The daily 5 waves of defense was faster too.
It can't spawn in assassination missions or in railjack missions, so from the whole daily steel path dose there is a single mission that can spawn the acolyte.

It doesn't seems quite right to me now that there are new arcanes in their drop table.

[Ms_Salami]

Waited long enough for acolyte without spawn the mission failed, yet on the same mission I ran just before it did spawn.

[Redfeather75]

One time we waited after extraction appeared and acolyte never showed up! We waited a while.