Teshin Gameplay is how Warframe Gameplay supposed to be.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, Iccotak said:

What are you talking about? They aren't doing that At All....

There is barely a skeleton of a story, it's like set pieces that are a demo of what the story Could Be - but the rest of it is missing. Next to no worldbuilding, lore, side quests, etc. (and yes, there are games that are doing a better job)

Like all of those questions are irrelevant if there isn't a foundation of a story for that narrative to be told on and there isn't - it's a string of bits and pieces wrapped together to be something resembling a campaign.

And like I said before the Tenno-Con excitement always has "Big News" that gets people excited. There is always a spike in attention at Tenno-Con which then dies down with a later disappointing launch. This has been the pattern for several years (Railjack being the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people). Don't go at pointing at "Youtubers riling up gamers" when the games consistent pattern of disappointment has done a good job of that all on it's own.

and really what people are excited about so far is that it's bringing focus back to the Story, not the feature (from what I have seen most people either don't care or are confused why playable Grineer, Corpus, and Teshin is a thing)

to add on to what I'm said here - instead of adding content to what people loved DE kept spending their resources on needless innovation. This goes back to being too split in attention and resources to finish or excel at any one thing. (Again -the Chinese food buffet analogy) There is a severe lack of direction.

Like there is a good possibility that they might have had more story content in the past if they weren't working on things like Archwing. (then they add a thing like k-drives, when we already have archwings....)

Like someone else already said Destiny is not Halo 3.0

I am not saying that Warframe should play like Destiny - I am saying that Destiny actually has got itself together, has a quality standard for gameplay & assets, and is on a reliable schedule of content output. IMO - it is working to be the best version of itself that has room to tell its ever evolving narrative.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warframe doesn't have "Sunsetting" but it does have a growing pile of weapons, mods, and warframes that lead to redundancy and big issues in balancing & gameplay mechanics.

Destiny sunset the content to deal with bloat because the game was too big - like in data size - and it also had bad old code they needed to take out and rework. There were also issues around balancing .

In their case they were able to pull this off because they actually had a base game that they could take that risk to tell their ever evolving narrative and in recent seasons it is paying off. It was unpleasant at the start, and is still considered controversial, but people like it because it prevents stagnation and allows the devs to freshen things up.

Never said it was perfect - but I prefer this over Warframes lack of direction, and its ever enlarging pile 

People came for the Space Ninja, that is what the game advertises; Not things like Mechs or Operators (they are a cool narrative element but their gameplay is just 🤢🤮). Railjack is iffy but it is an improvement over archwing imo because it's still about the tileset gameplay.

Most people aren't silly enough to keep using the "but they advertised"  excuse. No one can add 7 years of content into a 40 second ad. 

Steve already said the people that use this excuse are confused....meaning there was never anything or anyone that said "warframe will only be about space ninjas". 

The Operator is literally what the game is about story wise, so that's common sense as well. 

They don't need to pick a direction at all. People that already like the game have no problem participating in and enjoying the content. You're a part of a small minority of vocal forum people is all. Most people are just playing the game, or not and moving on and enjoying their life. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 hours ago, Iccotak said:

1. Overhaul the beginning player experience. Tutorials, mechanics, bread crumbs to other systems, and More Story to get the player invested from the start. Have something like the beginning of a campaign that can be added onto as time progresses.

🤔 Personally I have an appreciation for how little hand-holding there was at the start. I enjoy discovering obtuse things years down the track that were always under my nose, and had the game hit me over the head with "You can do this thing" a whole lot, I may have lost that sense of discovery and so things like TSD would not have hit nearly as hard as it did; not only for its story, but also for what it meant for my playing the game more.

Spoiler

I didn't even know what I was doing at the start except some faffing around, and then suddenly the Character Customization screen became unlocked while the goosebumps were dying down. That's something that a game shows you at the very start, but I'd invested hours into this game without knowing that this was even a thing. It sort of blew my mind that a game would do something so different, and it definitely made me curious what else there was to discover.

That's not to say that it can't be improved, mind. I'd love to see more players getting hooked on more than just "So.... is there... something more to this game, or what?".

...But at the same time that was exactly why I was so pleasantly surprised. Argh! It's really tough just to think about making the gradient that is "Player willingness to figure things out for themselves" a solved concept 😐

edit: Personally I think answering someone "Oh yeah, there is" when they ask if there's more than just some mech suits (Warframes) and guns is a fun thing. But it's like how do you build up the hype without overhyping it, haha

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

On 2021-07-19 at 8:11 PM, (PSN)FK2P said:

Think of that as a failure of design that will swallow the game

Valid counterpoint. At the same time, DE takes the opposite approach: oversaturating the amount of playable frames to the point frames become pointless after a while. Neither has found a balance.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

22 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

🤔 Personally I have an appreciation for how little hand-holding there was at the start. I enjoy discovering obtuse things years down the track that were always under my nose, and had the game hit me over the head with "You can do this thing" a whole lot, I may have lost that sense of discovery and so things like TSD would not have hit nearly as hard as it did; not only for its story, but also for what it meant for my playing the game more.

  Reveal hidden contents

I didn't even know what I was doing at the start except some faffing around, and then suddenly the Character Customization screen became unlocked while the goosebumps were dying down. That's something that a game shows you at the very start, but I'd invested hours into this game without knowing that this was even a thing. It sort of blew my mind that a game would do something so different, and it definitely made me curious what else there was to discover.

 

Question: How did you find out about the mods in Orokin Vaults?

[(NSW)Greybones]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Question: How did you find out about the mods in Orokin Vaults?

Yeah, that was the wiki. At one point I was like "I'm gonna make the most over-powered weapon ever", and so I dived into the wiki to find out mods to do it.

At the time I didn't think it was too bad; what's so bad about spoiling the location and effects of some mods? Nowadays I wish I hadn't killed that mockingbird so fast, since not only did I not necessarily need them, I can't give a good account on what it's like to try and find out about them in the game 😕. I like obtuse things, but sometimes I think pure drops might be a little too obtuse; that said, I expect I would have come across them naturally? (Argh, just thinking about it makes me wish I could forget so I could figure it out how bad/not bad it is to find out)

Spoiler

edit: And then it's like "Oh, this thing just dropped. + a stat, - another stat? Weird, never seen something like this before". What would have gone through my mind then, I wonder.

🤔 Corrupted mods. Representing their namesake; gaining additional power, losing their will. Never thought of it that way until now

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

24 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Yeah, that was the wiki. At one point I was like "I'm gonna make the most over-powered weapon ever", and so I dived into the wiki to find out mods to do it.

At the time I didn't think it was too bad; what's so bad about spoiling the location and effects of some mods? Nowadays I wish I hadn't killed that mockingbird so fast, since not only did I not necessarily need them, I can't give a good account on what it's like to try and find out about them in the game 😕. I like obtuse things, but sometimes I think pure drops might be a little too obtuse; that said, I expect I would have come across them naturally? (Argh, just thinking about it makes me wish I could forget so I could figure it out how bad/not bad it is to find out)

  Reveal hidden contents

edit: And then it's like "Oh, this thing just dropped. + a stat, - another stat? Weird, never seen something like this before". What would have gone through my mind then, I wonder.

🤔 Corrupted mods. Representing their namesake; gaining additional power, losing their will. Never thought of it that way until now

 

Not to drive your misery home but I was lit when I figured that out with my buds! Being a team of "advanced noobs" we didn't even think of matching the ideal frames with the keys and was destroyed during that no-shield gating era. 

The other issue was levelling them once you got them, considering endo wasn't a thing neither. 😂

[EmberStar]

29 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

; that said, I expect I would have come across them naturally? (Argh, just thinking about it makes me wish I could forget so I could figure it out how bad/not bad it is to find out)

 

I've invited about a dozen people to try Warframe.  They all quit, pretty quickly.  Of the ones who ever said why, the main reason was the huge amount of utterly unexplained complexity.  And I think it's pretty unlikely that you'd ever figure out about Corrupted Mods without either accidentally researching them (as you did) or someone specifically telling you how to do it in-game.  There is NOTHING that points to how to get Dragon Keys.  Nightwave points to the fact that they exist, but nothing I know of in-game offers any explanation of what they're for or why you'd want to equip an item that completely cripples your Warframe.  Someone would have to:

Find out about Dragon Keys from Nightwave

Accidentally discover that they come from Clan research, which is only even possible if they also join a clan.  (My limited personal experience is that everyone I invited quit before they even attempted to look for a clan.)

Equip a Dragon Key for a Nightwave Challenge and somehow accidentally either

      have the correct one equipped when tripping over a Corrupted Vault in an Infested Derelict

            or

     somehow notice the icon that appears when you equip the key and recognize that it matches the icon displayed on a Corrupted Vault

 

And Corrupted Mods are just one example, of more than I care enough to try to list.  Corrupted mods are "kind of important," and the game utterly fails to point out ANYTHING about them.  And I would say that (again, based on my limited personal experience) that you are in a minority in terms of "want to discover everything without help."  As I said, I've got twelve examples of people who quit because, even after I offered to explain what I could and do my best to answer questions, this game is a spaghetti ball of "I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANY OF THIS IS!!!"

[(NSW)Greybones]

51 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I've invited about a dozen people to try Warframe.  They all quit, pretty quickly.  Of the ones who ever said why, the main reason was the huge amount of utterly unexplained complexity.  And I think it's pretty unlikely that you'd ever figure out about Corrupted Mods without either accidentally researching them (as you did) or someone specifically telling you how to do it in-game.  There is NOTHING that points to how to get Dragon Keys.  Nightwave points to the fact that they exist, but nothing I know of in-game offers any explanation of what they're for or why you'd want to equip an item that completely cripples your Warframe.  Someone would have to:

Find out about Dragon Keys from Nightwave

Accidentally discover that they come from Clan research, which is only even possible if they also join a clan.  (My limited personal experience is that everyone I invited quit before they even attempted to look for a clan.)

Equip a Dragon Key for a Nightwave Challenge and somehow accidentally either

      have the correct one equipped when tripping over a Corrupted Vault in an Infested Derelict

            or

     somehow notice the icon that appears when you equip the key and recognize that it matches the icon displayed on a Corrupted Vault

 

And Corrupted Mods are just one example, of more than I care enough to try to list.  Corrupted mods are "kind of important," and the game utterly fails to point out ANYTHING about them.  And I would say that (again, based on my limited personal experience) that you are in a minority in terms of "want to discover everything without help."  As I said, I've got twelve examples of people who quit because, even after I offered to explain what I could and do my best to answer questions, this game is a spaghetti ball of "I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANY OF THIS IS!!!"

I'm saddened to hear when potential players don't quite make it through the start.

Yeah. It's a pretty convoluted dance of "showing" vs "learning". I can totally understand why some would be driven off by the complexity-by-not-telling; without some sort of guidance or sheer stubborness, it can be pretty daunting.

It's made even more convoluted by an optional reliance on the community to teach each other. It sounds like you wanted to show someone the ropes, but they wanted to do it themselves, and ultimately drown in the lack of knowledge and decided that the game wasn't for them.

edit: I started Warframe a few times because the first time I had so little idea of what I was doing, I couldn't be bothered continueing

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Yeah, that was the wiki. At one point I was like "I'm gonna make the most over-powered weapon ever", and so I dived into the wiki to find out mods to do it.

At the time I didn't think it was too bad; what's so bad about spoiling the location and effects of some mods? Nowadays I wish I hadn't killed that mockingbird so fast, since not only did I not necessarily need them, I can't give a good account on what it's like to try and find out about them in the game 😕. I like obtuse things, but sometimes I think pure drops might be a little too obtuse; that said, I expect I would have come across them naturally? (Argh, just thinking about it makes me wish I could forget so I could figure it out how bad/not bad it is to find out)

  Reveal hidden contents

edit: And then it's like "Oh, this thing just dropped. + a stat, - another stat? Weird, never seen something like this before". What would have gone through my mind then, I wonder.

🤔 Corrupted mods. Representing their namesake; gaining additional power, losing their will. Never thought of it that way until now

 

A bunch of optimal mods hidden away and with a specific way of accessing them...see, this is where breadcrumbs would help. You admit to going to an external source to know about something the game should have clued you into anyway.

Players get mad at Youtubers, but the game doesn't give the info necessary so players go to external sources to find out about stuff, they go to Youtubers and viola, you get more eyes towards the Youtubers and external sources because they game didn't bother teaching the player.

[(NSW)Greybones]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

A bunch of optimal mods hidden away and with a specific way of accessing them...see, this is where breadcrumbs would help. You admit to going to an external source to know about something the game should have clued you into anyway.

Players get mad at Youtubers, but the game doesn't give the info necessary so players go to external sources to find out about stuff, they go to Youtubers and viola, you get more eyes towards the Youtubers and external sources because they game didn't bother teaching the player.

I didn't actually need the mods, so I didn't need to know how to get them so readily. It was mainly because I wanted to really break the game and make missions easy for myself as I chased the grind. I expect had I experimented more I'd have come across them in due time.

Yeah, fair enough. Personally I'd love if Youtubers could be a little more... um... coy? i guess is the word I'm thinking of; I expect they hit-the-viewer-over-the-head with information. For a lot of stuff we already have the wiki which is already very cut-and-dry, and I'd love if there was a bit more of that "Here's some guidance, but not all the answers" from the community. That said, I tend to not watch Youtubers, so honestly I'm speaking from ignorance on whether they hit us over the head, but I do know it's pretty hard to know just how much information to give (I've certainly failed on that front more than once), and there's an over-arching expectation that "Players are searching a Youtube video for what to do next, here's exactly what to do next", so I think it's a little unfair to blame them if they do.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

On 2021-07-24 at 2:45 PM, Iccotak said:

Going to post this Reddit post from a year ago that brings some harsh truths about the state of Warframe. That being a F2P game in Beta is not longer an excuse and we should be very concerned with how the game is overall being handled...

TL;DR - Warframe is NOT one game, it is seven early access games that are never finished. DE needs to stop adding new games and start working on making Warframe.

Excerpt: 

...

 

Great write-up. It is a shame DE hasn't capitalized on the universe they've created and created a more coherent story. It's potential further wasted.

 

 

On 2021-07-24 at 5:47 PM, Iccotak said:

Like Sara in the linked video said - Warframe has put itself in the position that the only logical thing to do is start from scratch at the expense of all the investment from its player base (it is "Open Beta" after all) and basically develop it right the second time around. Because like total biscuit said; Warframe became a series of unfinished castles built upon eachother.

 

That's still barely anything especially when considering the amount of time that has elapsed for these updates to happen. Where is the rest of the game?

Sure, Second Dream and War Within were good - but there is still a whole void of nothing in terms of story & world building around that. Consider how little direction WF gives players at the start still - even after all this time, the game still has one of the worst beginning player experiences in gaming and DE has openly acknowledged this.

Also a paid game does not automatically mean No growth; Wanting a solid foundation is not saying I want the game to stop growing. I'm saying it's hard to grow when you don't have a solid foundation to grow from. You cannot have an ever expanding universe if you have basically nothing to expand from. and Warframe's "foundation" right now is bunch of islands - not a cohesive game.

There's hardly anything in-between the major story beats, and like it was said before; DE is rushing into its "Endgame Narrative" when the solar system is practically empty of stories.

Open Fields are great - when you have structure and a goal. Passion Projects are nice - when they are actually going somewhere and can become a viable product. At the end of the day Warframe is a product and really you've set a low bar for quality control because your stance seems to be that there shouldn't be a bar for quality control, or any structure, at all. Which is a bad business model - which Warframe is a business.

Warframe is not this innocent & pure passion project from underdog indie developers that we have to protect from the taint of money. It's a major business that makes money and justifies being an unpolished & unfinished game by being technically in Beta. The only reason they haven't gotten out of it is because it has become profitable.

This is often a problem I see in the WF community, it gives DE a pass for things that would be considered unacceptable from just any other studio.

As for trying out new things - I've already explained this; a game can try new things without basically becoming a different game genre. Monster Hunter expanded upon their gameplay without losing sight of their core gameplay - and it's one of the most successful video games ever. Consider that when talking about Warframe more and more people are saying that they feel the game lost sight of what made it Warframe in the first place. Maybe, just maybe, games like MH and Destiny are actually doing something right that Warframe could take a cue from.

Saying they're just  "cookie cutter" paid games is very reductive and I don't think you understand the elements that made them successful today - and ignoring your competition or banking on them to fail is a bad business strategy.

 

using a food analogy to yours.

 

Ok that's on you then - at this point it's obvious that you're stuck in the "Everything is Fine Land" and ignoring anyone who disagrees with you.

(EDIT: Also the video is mostly him explaining the game and the other learning the systems and pointing out the problems with them. So it was a fresh perspective looking at Warframe without the bias and making a call)

Great points. Also, the video you posted is one I've posted here a couple of times. It is a great look into why the game needs work, and why DE not adding tutorials and/or explaining features of the game in-game actually leads people to seek it out via third parties and playing the way others play. If I remember correctly, the quote goes something along the lines of "Warframe has players teach other players how to play the game and that's how they play the game."

 

 

On 2021-07-25 at 1:44 PM, Iccotak said:

What are you talking about? They aren't doing that At All....

There is barely a skeleton of a story, it's like set pieces that are a demo of what the story Could Be - but the rest of it is missing. Next to no worldbuilding, lore, side quests, etc. (and yes, there are games that are doing a better job)

Like all of those questions are irrelevant if there isn't a foundation of a story for that narrative to be told on and there isn't - it's a string of bits and pieces wrapped together to be something resembling a campaign.

And like I said before the Tenno-Con excitement always has "Big News" that gets people excited. There is always a spike in attention at Tenno-Con which then dies down with a later disappointing launch. This has been the pattern for several years (Railjack being the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people). Don't go at pointing at "Youtubers riling up gamers" when the games consistent pattern of disappointment has done a good job of that all on it's own.

and really what people are excited about so far is that it's bringing focus back to the Story, not the feature (from what I have seen most people either don't care or are confused why playable Grineer, Corpus, and Teshin is a thing)

to add on to what I'm said here - instead of adding content to what people loved DE kept spending their resources on needless innovation. This goes back to being too split in attention and resources to finish or excel at any one thing. (Again -the Chinese food buffet analogy) There is a severe lack of direction.

Like there is a good possibility that they might have had more story content in the past if they weren't working on things like Archwing. (then they add a thing like k-drives, when we already have archwings....)

Like someone else already said Destiny is not Halo 3.0

I am not saying that Warframe should play like Destiny - I am saying that Destiny actually has got itself together, has a quality standard for gameplay & assets, and is on a reliable schedule of content output. IMO - it is working to be the best version of itself that has room to tell its ever evolving narrative.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warframe doesn't have "Sunsetting" but it does have a growing pile of weapons, mods, and warframes that lead to redundancy and big issues in balancing & gameplay mechanics.

Destiny sunset the content to deal with bloat because the game was too big - like in data size - and it also had bad old code they needed to take out and rework. There were also issues around balancing .

In their case they were able to pull this off because they actually had a base game that they could take that risk to tell their ever evolving narrative and in recent seasons it is paying off. It was unpleasant at the start, and is still considered controversial, but people like it because it prevents stagnation and allows the devs to freshen things up.

Never said it was perfect - but I prefer this over Warframes lack of direction, and its ever enlarging pile of unnecessary features & power creep. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everything you said in your reply is exactly how I feel about the game (and is along the lines of what that year old Reddit post was saying too)

Like it was said in that Warframe video I linked; Right Now Warframe needs to do two things

1. Overhaul the beginning player experience. Tutorials, mechanics, bread crumbs to other systems, and More Story to get the player invested from the start. Have something like the beginning of a campaign that can be added onto as time progresses.

2. Pick ONE direction they want the game and stick to that. Even if that makes some people mad, because forcing the player to do things that are Not Space Ninja is worse than that. Making several different "Games" in one game kills interest in that game.

People came for the Space Ninja, that is what the game advertises; Not things like Mechs or Operators (they are a cool narrative element but their gameplay is just 🤢🤮). Railjack is iffy but it is an improvement over archwing imo because it's still about the tileset gameplay.

What they did with the New Player Experience, turning it into a revised opening mission and leaving it at that was disheartening. Such a disappointment when they could have revised the story overall and made it so that players get breadcrumbs and info as they play that lead them to The Second Dream revelation. An overarching story is possible but, again, not attained whether it is due to lack of skill or lack of interest. Sigh.

[(NSW)Greybones]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Not to drive your misery home but I was lit when I figured that out with my buds! Being a team of "advanced noobs" we didn't even think of matching the ideal frames with the keys and was destroyed during that no-shield gating era. 

The other issue was levelling them once you got them, considering endo wasn't a thing neither. 😂

Haha, misery driven home. ‘Salright though, I’ve no need to dwell too much on the past that’s past 😋.

I’m glad to hear you had fun 👍. I’m never going to experience anything from all perspectives with my one existence, so it’s nice to hear other’s perspectives

edit: 🤔 Is it “Perspective” I’m thinking of? I guess in this case it’d be more like “Experiences”

*consulting thesaurus*

[CrimsonXX]

Since a mod decided to seemingly blast away my post in regards to this I'll redo it, regardless of the original being fine by all normal metrics but not kid glove-y enough I guess. As I said others can say whatever they want so long as they have the reputation/community standing for it, everyone else is restricted to ridiculously kid glove standards. But anyway:

Quote

People came for the Space Ninja, that is what the game advertises; Not things like Mechs or Operators (they are a cool narrative element but their gameplay is just 🤢🤮). Railjack is iffy but it is an improvement over archwing imo because it's still about the tileset gameplay.

I came for the scifi ARPG which its not only been but has gone deep into and what makes it such an engaging universe. Also newsflash Operators are a major spoiler, so no duh they're not going to advertise them; the Operators also aren't supposed to some walking warriors but the vulnerability of the Tenno. The heart and brain to the frame's muscle, balancing out.

Railjack in its latest incarnation is good-great and definitely fitting in a scifi universe, if anything its a props point for DE actually doing that where other stories would hold back on giving the MC's a massive warship of their own to fight with. I absolutely love the space fight -> ground sabotage/infiltration -> space to leave setup and if anything want to see it applied to MORE areas. I'd love to see Invasions have an RJ initial bombardment section that leads into the foot infiltration of whatever faction you went against's now damaged ship, then after finishing the mission leaving to go back to the RJ.

WF is a scifi epic (An epic is a long narrative poem that features the heroic deeds of a legendary person, written in elevated language, tone, and style.), that has evolved more and more into being a better version of its simplistic origin. Its not a cookie cutter, playing it safe, boring "looter shooter" like some people seem to worship and should go back to cause clearly that's what they want instead.

Also to the mods: I will be copying this and if it disappears you will see it reappear again and again, so do feel free to keep blasting it away if you really want to. That's your choice, I don't have the reputation/community standing shield (don't bother trying to say it doesn't exist/isn't a thing, I know it is) but I do have the copy/paste ability, stubborn-ness, and have no issue running against mods as I have done across my ongoing 10+ years online experience (even getting a few pulled to the side when overstepping). You can't even legitimately point to "being disrespectful" since its a removed who's quote it is quote, not even a direct from the source quote but re-quoted from another user that quoted the other, and not directly specifying anyone to be "disrespected" as a result. It may quote someone but doesn't directly address them by name at any point, so going this road means you injecting your opinion/assumptions into the mix which is a very murky territory for those in positions of authority.

[CrimsonXX]

6 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Great write-up. It is a shame DE hasn't capitalized on the universe they've created and created a more coherent story. It's potential further wasted.

Great points. Also, the video you posted is one I've posted here a couple of times. It is a great look into why the game needs work, and why DE not adding tutorials and/or explaining features of the game in-game actually leads people to seek it out via third parties and playing the way others play. If I remember correctly, the quote goes something along the lines of "Warframe has players teach other players how to play the game and that's how they play the game."

What they did with the New Player Experience, turning it into a revised opening mission and leaving it at that was disheartening. Such a disappointment when they could have revised the story overall and made it so that players get breadcrumbs and info as they play that lead them to The Second Dream revelation. An overarching story is possible but, again, not attained whether it is due to lack of skill or lack of interest. Sigh.

"Hasn't capitalized on the universe" are you for real with this garbage? They've expanded the universe in giving players an entire space warship, which was then tied into the story of a frame as well as expanding a seeming new antagonist in Parvos from the history of the Corpus faction. They've then expanded into having Corpus based nemesis types to rail against the frames, which along with the Liches serve as a means of the universe acknowledging the return of the "demi-gods of the battlefield" which goes towards the world reacting to Tenno. Several frame-quests exploring more histories of the world adding even more history to it. The lead-in acts for The New War which included a small bit of a showing of The Old War. The Nightwave mini-stories which expanded on Grineer lore (Saturn Six), Infested lore (The Emissary), and even Orokin lore (Glassmaker as Nihil is/was an Orokin). Not to mention the various things put towards Lotus and her history sprinkled throughout particular revamps and/or events. The New War itself which is actually seemingly going to be exploring the other factions. Like they haven't failed in exploring their universe at all, though good luck with anyone trying to pull together story which has some elements being events of the past that would be difficult to incorporate into the game. Then on top of that there's the crowd that even if they did attempt it would shout "not new content! content drought!". But y'know that's actually thinking about the whole thing instead of just getting on a cardboard soapbox whining cause its not how you want (especially in the case of the one you're quoting who just wants Warframe to morph into a cookie cutter generic looter shooter).

I'd wager everyone is onboard with Warframe getting more tutorials, however this is never an issue with other games that's brought up. Bloodborne for instance gives you some tips and hints, however there's entire things that you'll miss out on without looking outside of it (Umbilical Cords, The Hunter's Nightmare DLC, numerous weapons and outfits, etc). It leaves it to you to figure that stuff out. Yet let Warframe have the same basic idea and its an issue. No the game isn't going to hold your hand through every single detail and yes some things definitely would be good to be refined , however currently TNW is taking most of the focus as well as DE having to deal with the "we want constant new content and truly new not revamped stuff!" crowd. I'm all for DE ignoring those types and instead working on pulling everything together via revamps/remasters; however in no way do I see it as some horrible flaw. Also from the bit of the vid I suffered through watching all I heard the female voice saying/doing was non-stop sighing and talking from an outsider perspective potentially skewed by the person doing the vid (which is outdated anyway considering several of the things have been touched on in the game).

Try a persistent whining from a crowd of people that want new content and would only cry louder if DE tried to put more time towards doing things to pull everything together to make it more easily understandable for those that can't bother to think to be able to do that themselves. I've yet to have an issue grasping WF's story personally. There's also that by doing anymore touching the story in that fashion it removes a certain degree of the freedom (or perceived freedom as there is a path there) given to the players to make their own way through. Then again this quoted post is coming from someone locked into at least one cookie cutter hand-holding linear boringly predictable af game that is nowhere close to as expansive, engaging, and pulling as Warframe is in its story elements. To the point where that person preaches the gospel of that game and refuses to just go play it instead like a normal person would.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I won`t go as far as to say that warframe should be like the Teshin gameplay but it has conclave potential. One thing I have said before is that instead of playing warframes in conclave it should be operators and since the crew has be out they (your customised version) also should be an option as a character to play in the conclave and even through I don`t care about this happening but playing the grinner and corpus can be an option.