No DE Response to Feedback Megathreads for Weeks?

[krc473]

4 hours ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Would it kill them to TELL US THAT instead of leaving us in suspense, feeling frustrated that our feedback is being ignored?

That would depend on the point of the thread. If it was one that invited suggestions/feedback/etc then it would be best practice for them to make a couple comments on closing. If the thread is simply a post by DE exclusively saying “this is what we are doing” then I don’t think a comment is required. 

• It may simply come down to time constraints. How popular would it be to just say “we will get to it eventually”? DE has a lot of other stuff to deal with instead of the frame they just buffed a little.

You could find some of what you think are the best suggestions and post them in a Devstream thread that is looking for questions. Don’t go overboard, only the best ones. Note: by “you” I mean anyone who cares, not just you.

[Grav_Starstrider]

2 hours ago, krc473 said:

That would depend on the point of the thread. If it was one that invited suggestions/feedback/etc then it would be best practice for them to make a couple comments on closing. If the thread is simply a post by DE exclusively saying “this is what we are doing” then I don’t think a comment is required. 

• It may simply come down to time constraints. How popular would it be to just say “we will get to it eventually”? DE has a lot of other stuff to deal with instead of the frame they just buffed a little.

You could find some of what you think are the best suggestions and post them in a Devstream thread that is looking for questions. Don’t go overboard, only the best ones. Note: by “you” I mean anyone who cares, not just you.

See, my problem with that observation is that the MEGATHREADS WERE FOR THE FEEDBACK. AND THERE THEY'VE SAID NOTHING, ACKNOWLEDGED NOTHING. I will forward my posted suggestions from the workshop into the megathread though. Still freakin' stupid though, the sheer lack of communication going on from them. And also.... They usually *do* state why they lock active threads as far as I've seen, just quietly and silently locking it without addressing/responding to anything in there is weird and frustrating for everyone spending time telling DE possible solutions.

[AJAL8000]

DE answered something about this and I haven't seen it? Or ...?

[Roble_Viejo]

Personally, Id love a Response to this: 

 

[Grav_Starstrider]

On 2021-10-12 at 10:49 AM, Roble_Viejo said:

Personally, Id love a Response to this: 

 

I feel like that's extremely unrelated. It's one thing for them to not respond to one specific new requests. After all, many people are constantly suggesting things, and many would be needless complications, or completely change the game from what it currently is, or completely change the premise of what a Warframe or weapon or enemy is supposed to be.

IT'S ANOTHER THING ENTIRELY FOR DE TO NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE THE MANY PROBLEMS THAT EXIST WITH THINGS THAT THEY EXPLICITLY OPENED A DIALOGUE WITH US FOR FEEDBACK AND IMPROVEMENTS.

Yareli still feels like hotdogwater, more clunky and ineffective than every other Warframe and equivalent abilities, despite being given loads of feedback, they only changed her in ways practically nobody asked for.

The Helminth System and its abilities in general, as well as the Invigoration system and its effective punishing of people who opted in early and Subsumed Warframes being the previous maximum rank, has been met with very consistent criticisms. DE has essentially only acknowledged one of the issues, with the duration and effectiveness of one of the new abilities, the loot finding spark.

The Arsenal Divide "fixes" further exacerbated the distance between meta and non-meta weapons, and DE hasn't addressed this issue at all. It also fails to address how for players that play the game without engaging with the Steel Path, melee will still overwhelmingly reign supreme, and you still have to play Steel Path and use melee spam in order to get the rewards that allow you to switch to using guns.

DE shouldn't ask for feedback and do nothing and say nothing when so many people advise that they believe something is problematic in the same way.

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

The Arsenal Divide "fixes" further exacerbated the distance between meta and non-meta weapons, and DE hasn't addressed this issue at all. It also fails to address how for players that play the game without engaging with the Steel Path, melee will still overwhelmingly reign supreme, and you still have to play Steel Path and use melee spam in order to get the rewards that allow you to switch to using guns.

Wrong, you need to run Arbitrations to get the mods (you know, the first half of the improvements) since that's a requirement to run Steel Path missions unless a player is using "taxis" to run Steel Path. On Steel Path you only get the arcanes and, in case you didn't know, acolytes spawn on every Steel Path mission, you don't need to "progress" in order to get them and if you or anyone is having troubles with the first mission on Steel Path, that means that player isn't ready for it yet. I finished Steel Path alone on the first iteration and I didn't need any of the new mods or arcanes to progress thorugh it.

[Grav_Starstrider]

10 hours ago, vanaukas said:

Wrong, you need to run Arbitrations to get the mods

You'll note that I said "rewards", I was referring to the arcanes that take forever to farm up due to RNG giving you more than you need of one, and not enough of the others. And don't get me started on the fact that you need to unlock it per weapon. It only allows you to effectively make individual already meta guns compete with the melee meta for steel path. And even those galvanized mods just exacerbate the distance between meta and non meta weaponry, since they're mild nerfs to the weapon until the kills roll in, which non meta weapons will struggle with.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

22 hours ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

DE shouldn't ask for feedback and do nothing and say nothing when so many people advise that they believe something is problematic in the same way

Not all feedback is great feedback. And the feedback they do like they have to test it and see what they like and see what they can change.

Also, they are prepping for New War. I doubt they have a lot of time to look into the feedback. But they will eventually. Just need to be patient. 

[AJAL8000]

hace 1 hora, (XBOX)Shodian dijo:

But they will eventually. Just need to be patient.

Lets see...but [DE] is still taking a long time, I imagine it is because of the "New War" and they have made these changes before the "New War" simply to study the situation later. (Although it happened absolutely everything that the players warned would happen lol)

[Grav_Starstrider]

On 2021-10-16 at 3:15 PM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Not all feedback is great feedback. And the feedback they do like they have to test it and see what they like and see what they can change.

Also, they are prepping for New War. I doubt they have a lot of time to look into the feedback. But they will eventually. Just need to be patient. 

"Players may not always be good at providing solutions, but they're very good at identifying when something is wrong", I believe this is almost exactly something that one of the developers stated during a prime time, in regards to player feedback. DE clearly knew something was super wrong with Yareli upon release given the fact that they near immediately did the easiest possible fixes to buff her up, with stat improvements and numerical tweaks, several times. But this is exactly the opposite of what everybody thought was wrong with her. We have pages upon pages upon pages of people laying out exactly how counterintuitive Yareli's design is, and how blatantly inferior it is to most other Warframe's kits. If Yareli's abilities have zero synergy, and her Merulina actively locks you out of melee, primary, Helminth Infused abilities, and standard mobility, then her abilities should each on their own feel massively useful compared to the abilities other Warframes have that sometimes only shine DUE to the synergies. Instead we have abilities that are neither impressive standalone, nor impressive via synergies. And it's been 3.5 months since they opened the feedback. She clearly should have been left in the oven longer, or been more comprehensively tested prior to release, and yet DE is dragging their feet on even acknowledging her problems, instead applying the laziest numerical tweaks to her, and not giving even an indication of whether they'll improve her after New War.

And they've never acknowledged how scummy it was to force fully Subsumed players to have to spam infusions or invigorations to get the additional Helminth levels, where players with remaining Subsumes could far less wastefully get to them.

All we're asking them to do is TALK about them a bit, instead of sweeping it under the rug and waiting for everybody to forget about it, which is the scummy tactic they keep employing until big names point them out.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

8 hours ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

 

And they've never acknowledged how scummy it was to force fully Subsumed players to have to spam infusions or invigorations to get the additional Helminth levels, where players with remaining Subsumes could far less wastefully get to them.

Lmao, I had it maxed rank in a couple weeks after launch dude. That was a non issue.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Kind of tired of this “We” business in a topic about how players who play a vastly different Warframe to me somehow know what the game is and should be, despite DE not making the game in the way these players want it to be

[Grav_Starstrider]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Kind of tired of this “We” business in a topic about how players who play a vastly different Warframe to me somehow know what the game is and should be, despite DE not making the game in the way these players want it to be

With 24 pages of responses to Yareli, full of a few repeat posters, but a large chunk of unique users, yeah, it's "we". I can admit when a Warframe just doesn't check my boxes, there's a few of them that just feel meh. But that's entirely a gameplay preference. I *want* to like Yareli, and see a bunch of almost really cool things she can almost do, and myself and a ton of other Tenno can see that she just fails to do those things. Her dedicated CC ability is significantly arguably far worse than other 25 energy CC abilities, and have 0 synergy with any other abilities, let alone how useless their post cast detection range is, or how they commit sudoku against any obstacle possible. Her Merulina's "mobility" can generously be considered a sidegrade at most, when in cramped tilesets it's a downgrade, the DR is inferior to other comparable DR abilities, and it actively locks you out of a ton of standard Warframe arsenal, such as primaries and melee's, and Helminth infused abilities to boot! And it can't even have k drive mods added to it to suit our preferences. Her 3 is beastly efficient and effective... On the first few planets. On Steel Path it's a useless tickle and brief stagger, it fails to deal damage or CC effectively, despite being a ludicrously short ranged ability. Her 4 is a worse Larva/Vortex/Magnetize, since unlike those you can't take advantage of the grouping with your weapons because you're animation-locked.

So yes. WE think Yareli has substantial problems holding her back from feeling compelling to use.

And it sucks that DE doesn't address it aside from 90% garbage stat buffs that only make her more effective in the early star chart, rather than fixing her to actually have decent per level scaling or innately better-scaling or tactically potent mechanics.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Lmao, I had it maxed rank in a couple weeks after launch dude. That was a non issue.

Shouldn't have had to though. It's outright disrespectful to allow one-time-spendable exp to be so significantly wasted, punishing early adopters and rewarding the slower/newer players more *again*. We worked hard to 100% our Railjack, and at least DE reimbursed us when they cheapened it. Here, we 100%ed our Helminth System, and were given a smarmy "like other mmos, when something changes, you don't get free stuff uwu" which is so bullS#&$. They low-key did this to a portion of Railjack Intrinsic grinders too. If you fully 100%ed it, you couldn't earn any more in anticipation of the Command intrinsic. But if you stopped merely 1 rank away from max, you could grind forever so that you could instantly cap the entire intrinsic category. I don't get why you'd defend anti-player practices that might disrespect the time and effort you put into something in the future. It'd be bullS#&$, for example, if they made a post-Duviri Operator rework/upgrade, but it requires an entirely different experience/currency than Focus, giving veterans who've stockpiled focus 0 reason/meaning for having been continuing to earn focus with certain arsenal items. 

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2021-08-20 at 3:11 AM, (XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

It's outside the normal vacations that it appears their communication with the players over the years has become less frequent and less personal and more just general cookie cutter responses. Maybe that's just me. 🤷‍♂️. The newer players may not see this but the long time players may have noticed the difference in communication. 

That being said, thank you for the relay of information. 

Yeah unfortunately its been getting worse over the years.. now days we don't seem to get any responses to anything..and even less fixes of things broken, like the codex .. but these days i just don't have high expectations of DE like I used to..

[Grav_Starstrider]

4 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

Yeah unfortunately its been getting worse over the years.. now days we don't seem to get any responses to anything..and even less fixes of things broken, like the codex .. but these days i just don't have high expectations of DE like I used to..

I know right? I'm buying fewer and fewer prime accessories packs because it feels less and less worth supporting them when they give no indication that they value our feedback or care to add polish to their game by fixing issues.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Kind of tired of this “We” business in a topic about how players who play a vastly different Warframe to me somehow know what the game is and should be, despite DE not making the game in the way these players want it to be

It's not just personal preference though.  Yareli doesn't match up with the standard DE has set for modern warframes at all.  Her kit feels like it came out 6 years ago.  There's no meaningful scaling, nor are there any engaging synergies.  She was built for a game where sorties didn't even exist yet, to say nothing of Arbitrations, liches, sisters, or Steel Path.  I just don't understand how DE could hear player feedback on old blast procs and how annoying it was to ragdoll enemies... then turn around in give us Yareli's 4.

 

DE messed up with Yareli, and although the dodge roll/bullet jump update helped Merulina, it's not enough.

[-AncientWarrior-]

33 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

I know right? I'm buying fewer and fewer prime accessories packs because it feels less and less worth supporting them when they give no indication that they value our feedback or care to add polish to their game by fixing issues.

Actually you are dead right, I used to purchase Prime packs to support them but these days I find it difficult to justify purchasing things when I can't even finish my codex because its been broken for so long and really that's saying something about whats to do for old-timers like me after 6-7 years I still play the game every day but its now about things like making sure the codex is completed, or getting to 500 mill credits as there is nothing in the game for long term players.  But maybe after TNW DE will finally start repairing and polishing the ol' bugs .. then Ill go back to buying again..

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It's not just personal preference though.  Yareli doesn't match up with the standard DE has set for modern warframes at all.  Her kit feels like it came out 6 years ago.  There's no meaningful scaling, nor are there any engaging synergies.  She was built for a game where sorties didn't even exist yet, to say nothing of Arbitrations, liches, sisters, or Steel Path.  I just don't understand how DE could hear player feedback on old blast procs and how annoying it was to ragdoll enemies... then turn around in give us Yareli's 4.

 

DE messed up with Yareli, and although the dodge roll/bullet jump update helped Merulina, it's not enough.

I was recently talking to someone about a Hydroid update they’d proposed. Their idea was pretty powerful because they wanted Hydroid to be able to completely rely on his ability set to get through a mission.

That’s a perspective that I’m beginning to get sense of regarding when players talk about Yareli. That she should be able to get through a mission completely via her abilities. As if this is a thing that is expected of Warframe, instead of a Warframe’s abilities augmenting a fight and being utilised in an interplay between weapon and Warframe. A player gets their hands all over a frame and builds so that abilities do the hardest of carries in a fight, simplifying the actual combat to a few ability button presses.

If this is the case, that a Warframe should be able to completely rely on abilities, then screw that noise. As if the game should be so simple. Just because you veterans and your thousand hours of ability-based grind are playing a Warframe that’s basically a prettier cookie clicker, don’t expect new things to innately contribute to such a style.

Maybe she’s not a nuker with “synergies”, but do you know where Yareli is fine? In an actual fight, where her abilities can be used to their fullest alongside the weapons that I brought. I’m perfectly fine with that, and since you lot aren’t, that means there is no “we” as far as I’m concerned

[sunderthefirmament]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I was recently talking to someone about a Hydroid update they’d proposed. Their idea was pretty powerful because they wanted Hydroid to be able to completely rely on his ability set to get through a mission.

That’s a perspective that I’m beginning to get sense of regarding when players talk about Yareli. That she should be able to get through a mission completely via her abilities. As if this is a thing that is expected of Warframe, instead of a Warframe’s abilities augmenting a fight and being utilised in an interplay between weapon and Warframe. A player gets their hands all over a frame and builds so that abilities do the hardest of carries in a fight, simplifying the actual combat to a few ability button presses.

If this is the case, that a Warframe should be able to completely rely on abilities, then screw that noise. As if the game should be so simple. Just because you veterans and your thousand hours of ability-based grind are playing a Warframe that’s basically a prettier cookie clicker, don’t expect new things to innately contribute to such a style.

Maybe she’s not a nuker with “synergies”, but do you know where Yareli is fine? In an actual fight, where her abilities can be used to their fullest alongside the weapons that I brought. I’m perfectly fine with that, and since you lot aren’t, that means there is no “we” as far as I’m concerned

Eh, I agree with you that some frames don't need to be room-clearing nukers.  In fact, my favorite frames aren't.

 

Look at Nezha.  He's a better Yareli in every way.  He is not a nuker that's going to just use his abilities to clear a room or map, at least not above star chart (like Yareli).  Instead, he relies on his very powerful abilities for utility and support.  Just like Yareli, he's got a tanking ability, except his also provides status immunity, has an invulnerability period where it can absorb damage (scaling), and doesn't strip him of 2/3 of his arsenal while also crippling his mobility.  Speaking of mobility, his passive gives him weird mobility, kind of like how Yareli has weird mobility through Merulina, except Nezha's is infinitely more useful in your average tileset.  Nezha has better CC than Yareli too, as he can shoot enemies during his 4 and Yareli can't.  Yareli's 1 is also CC, but it's bad because it fizzles out uselessly on walls pretty frequently.  Nezha's CC goes through walls.  Nezha also has a damaging ability that is useful for killing enemies behind him.  His 1 is better than Yareli's 3 in most situations.  And beyond this, Nezha also has debuff potential and further mobility/utility through his 2.  The only thing Yareli can do that Nezha can't is group enemies up.  But Yareli can't even take advantage of this, because she's locked into a casting animation (and maybe moving, if she's on her 2) and her 4 then just spits enemies all over the place uselessly.

 

I'm not asking for Yareli to be the next Saryn, Mesa, or Xaku.  I'm asking for her to have a functional design for most tilesets.  I'm asking for her to have scaling in her abilities, scaling that is present in other frames with tanking powers (the damage absorption period).  I'm asking for her not to be immediately irrelevant upon release.

 

A new frame does not need to be the best at something.  But it shouldn't be immediately outclassed by other offerings as blatantly as Yareli was.  I have a post about this, if you care to read it.  If you like her, cool.  But I can't enjoy her in her current state, and I'm hoping for further changes.

[(NSW)Greybones]

12 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Eh, I agree with you that some frames don't need to be room-clearing nukers.  In fact, my favorite frames aren't.

 

Look at Nezha.  He's a better Yareli in every way.  He is not a nuker that's going to just use his abilities to clear a room or map, at least not above star chart (like Yareli).  Instead, he relies on his very powerful abilities for utility and support.  Just like Yareli, he's got a tanking ability, except his also provides status immunity, has an invulnerability period where it can absorb damage (scaling), and doesn't strip him of 2/3 of his arsenal while also crippling his mobility.  Speaking of mobility, his passive gives him weird mobility, kind of like how Yareli has weird mobility through Merulina, except Nezha's is infinitely more useful in your average tileset.  Nezha has better CC than Yareli too, as he can shoot enemies during his 4 and Yareli can't.  Yareli's 1 is also CC, but it's bad because it fizzles out uselessly on walls pretty frequently.  Nezha's CC goes through walls.  Nezha also has a damaging ability that is useful for killing enemies behind him.  His 1 is better than Yareli's 3 in most situations.  And beyond this, Nezha also has debuff potential and further mobility/utility through his 2.  The only thing Yareli can do that Nezha can't is group enemies up.  But Yareli can't even take advantage of this, because she's locked into a casting animation (and maybe moving, if she's on her 2) and her 4 then just spits enemies all over the place uselessly.

 

I'm not asking for Yareli to be the next Saryn, Mesa, or Xaku.  I'm asking for her to have a functional design for most tilesets.  I'm asking for her to have scaling in her abilities, scaling that is present in other frames with tanking powers (the damage absorption period).  I'm asking for her not to be immediately irrelevant upon release.

 

A new frame does not need to be the best at something.  But it shouldn't be immediately outclassed by other offerings as blatantly as Yareli was.  I have a post about this, if you care to read it.  If you like her, cool.  But I can't enjoy her in her current state, and I'm hoping for further changes.

😐 You know what? Your enjoyment of Yareli is so tarnished by the fact that another frame does what she can do differently and apparently better, that I am actually willing to not care if they turned Yareli into a better Nezha. Or an almost-as-good Nezha. Long as they keep the k-drive because that’s a thing I really enjoy floating around on and having really agile ADSing while casting abilities on the move (Merulina is surprisingly strong so far). 

[sunderthefirmament]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

😐 You know what? Your enjoyment of Yareli is so tarnished by the fact that another frame does what she can do differently and apparently better, that I am actually willing to not care if they turned Yareli into a better Nezha. Or an almost-as-good Nezha. Long as they keep the k-drive because that’s a thing I really enjoy floating around on and having really agile ADSing while casting abilities on the move (Merulina is surprisingly strong so far). 

I see two ways forward for Merulina:

• add more mobility controls and improve handling, like the bullet jump/dodge roll they've already added
• add an alternate form for Merulina, like a sentinel or a summon, that still provides some benefits without removing our arsenal and mobility

If I may, what secondary do you prefer to use with Yareli?  I haven't found one that feels good with her yet.  I'd wager you have more playtime on her than I do, and I'm curious about your opinion/recommendation.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I see two ways forward for Merulina:

• add more mobility controls and improve handling, like the bullet jump/dodge roll they've already added
• add an alternate form for Merulina, like a sentinel or a summon, that still provides some benefits without removing our arsenal and mobility

If I may, what secondary do you prefer to use with Yareli?  I haven't found one that feels good with her yet.  I'd wager you have more playtime on her than I do, and I'm curious about your opinion/recommendation.

Talking to any veteran who knows how to fix the game requires a mindset I’m not in at the moment, so the best I can do for this conversation is say what I’ve enjoyed using as a secondary.

I haven’t tried all that many different secondaries as I gravitate to a few naturally. The Lex/Lex Prime have been fun ones to use, where the bonus crit from Yareli’s passive means I can focus less on crit mods and more on other mods, and ADSing for headshots is really flowey while riding because there’s so much movement, instead of slowing down to a crawl. And the Bronco/Bronco Prime is fun to get up into someone’s face combined with Aqua Blades, which can do enough damage to kill weeny enemies nearby while I blagh the tougher target with the gun. Atomos is kind of neat to float around the combat cluster and sort of hose down enemies

Someone recommended some ridiculously powerful crit-based Sporelacer, so that might be worth a try. Haven’t tried it myself, but it sounds like it’d carry the mission

[sunderthefirmament]

50 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Talking to any veteran who knows how to fix the game requires a mindset I’m not in at the moment, so the best I can do for this conversation is say what I’ve enjoyed using as a secondary.

I haven’t tried all that many different secondaries as I gravitate to a few naturally. The Lex/Lex Prime have been fun ones to use, where the bonus crit from Yareli’s passive means I can focus less on crit mods and more on other mods, and ADSing for headshots is really flowey while riding because there’s so much movement, instead of slowing down to a crawl. And the Bronco/Bronco Prime is fun to get up into someone’s face combined with Aqua Blades, which can do enough damage to kill weeny enemies nearby while I blagh the tougher target with the gun. Atomos is kind of neat to float around the combat cluster and sort of hose down enemies

Someone recommended some ridiculously powerful crit-based Sporelacer, so that might be worth a try. Haven’t tried it myself, but it sounds like it’d carry the mission

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and preferences for Yareli secondaries.  I mean no disrespect when I say that I think we prefer very different things from this game.  I appreciate you sharing your recommendations.

[(NSW)Greybones]

3 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and preferences for Yareli secondaries.  I mean no disrespect when I say that I think we prefer very different things from this game.  I appreciate you sharing your recommendations.

Feels…. weird to have someone thank me for what I’ve said.

But I can appreciate the appeal of wanting to learn how others play out of mere curiosity, and I’m glad I could help. I can respect that we get different enjoyment out of the same game as well. 🤔 Maybe in the future I’ll be asking about your approach to something out of curiosity

[Grav_Starstrider]

This is the kind of constructive dialogue I want from DE 😩 

Nobody reasonable is asking to get rid of Merulina altogether, or to make Yareli OP or ludicrously innately power-centric. We just want obvious problems with her kit shored up so that the abilities don't approach uselessness by the end of the star chart.

DE just keeps slapping the most lazy, flat-numbers onto her without actually changing fundamental problems, like the bleh-feeling handling of Merulina, the lack of an aim glide, the self-destructing of her Seasnares, the lack of scaling on her Aquablades, and how ridiculously inferior Riptide is to Vortex and Larva, due to the fact that you can't even use your Merulina-limited arsenal consisting of your secondary against them, before they get scattered again.

I want DE to say SOMETHING about their plans and tentative timetable for Yareli. Cuz this current iteration still feels like it bites. I'm not asking for Yareli to be better than Saryn, or even equal to her. I want her to not be competing for "worst Warframe on the roster" upon release and even after subsequent "buffs". Her abilities should be decent at doing what they're supposed to do, but imo each and every one of them overwhelmingly falls flat when compared to other abilities. EVERY ability shouldn't feel like the worst iteration of it's type.