Bane mods , are there any plans to make them universal?

[Andele3025]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That is the only justification needed for a QoL addition. It makes the interaction smoother, simple as that. There is no reason to have it as seperate mods, since the the power available is the same. Making a single Bane mod would just bring better ease of use, especially now with Railjack where you cannot just go into your loadout and switch things between missions without leaving the game mode completely, facing several transition screens in the process.

No. Each bane mod can be equated to direct damage elemental advantage (only with 100% resistance to all other types), asking for a universal one (ignoring that you already have it in form of roar) is just asking for 165% power creep. Actually 220% since sentients are now more prominent. There is no QOL in that.

[Tiltskillet]

I think the suggestion has little merit, but aside from that, is highly unlikely to be implemented.  That's ok, it's a feedback forum and I could always be totally wrong.

But...maybe a new, "universal bane" mod--not really bane, but with the same damage mechanics--with a smaller bonus would make more sense.

[Parcialsobriedad]

21 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I think the suggestion has little merit, but aside from that, is highly unlikely to be implemented.  That's ok, it's a feedback forum and I could always be totally wrong.

But...maybe a new, "universal bane" mod--not really bane, but with the same damage mechanics--with a smaller bonus would make more sense.

And a huge bonus if it displays the actual damage increase instead of leaving it as is , how many players have disregarded these due to them not changing the damage of the weapon? Who knows.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

No. Each bane mod can be equated to direct damage elemental advantage (only with 100% resistance to all other types), asking for a universal one (ignoring that you already have it in form of roar) is just asking for 165% power creep. Actually 220% since sentients are now more prominent. There is no QOL in that.

Nope since the mod can already be equipped and swapped between missions. The damage wouldnt magically increase because the ease of use gets improved. We arent facing multiple factions at once. And why the hell do you mention sentients? There is no bane mod for them.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2021-08-11 at 5:26 AM, Quimoth said:

Quick question to anyone willing to answer:

When was the last time you actually used a load-out?

Only got the two slots being used, the default and one for the personal quarters statue. Don't even bother with loadouts, not in Warframe or in other games that offer them.

[Parcialsobriedad]

5 hours ago, Quimoth said:

I don't need to switch elements so most weapons indeed do not use more than a single loadout. The way status procs work right now make dont make it worth putting effort into loadouts for much more than bane mods or special weapon mods.

Aside from slash, corrosive, viral, radiation and heat there aren't really any elements worth your time. Magnetic procs get countered by shield drones which happen to be of the same faction that has shields (duhhh).

The only few weapons that I do use loadouts on are those that can be modded for more than one purpose (status vs crit) which is a pool of maybe 8 weapons. Most of which barely anyone uses because they aren't exceptionally good at either.

Then again, my point was that loadout slots as is are just clunky and poorly implemented. To me they provide no benefit at all. I often find myself just switch the gear manually.

 

Pretty much.

 

5 hours ago, Quimoth said:

Oh and not to mention that i just do not like the idea of universal bane mods because if anything, they need a nerf not a buff.

Ehhh , you need two-ish serrations of base damage on top to make a bane worth the mod slot , being real crazy when used with CO builds so thats argueable , we can have a bit of overkill here and there , we will always do.

[Parcialsobriedad]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Only got the two slots being used, the default and one for the personal quarters statue. Don't even bother with loadouts, not in Warframe or in other games that offer them.

Wait the statue is a loadout thing lol

[Parcialsobriedad]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope since the mod can already be equipped and swapped between missions. The damage wouldnt magically increase because the ease of use gets improved. We arent facing multiple factions at once. And why the hell do you mention sentients? There is no bane mod for them.

You forgot invasions , cant blame you tho.

When SP invasions DE?

 

 

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

17 minutes ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

You forgot invasions , cant blame you tho.

When SP invasions DE?

 

 

Don't forget the Acolytes in SP.

Or any assassin that's a different faction from the mission you're playing for that matter.

Part of the disregard for Banes is that Bane of Corrupted didn't exist when the Void was considered end game.

Bane of Grineer, Corpus and Infested were introduced in 2013. Bane of Corrupted was introduced in 2017.

Also, any weapon with innate Radiation will change the faction of the target, making the Bane useless.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

18 minutes ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

Wait the statue is a loadout thing lol

Yeah, the statue uses loadout slots instead of maybe having a separate arsenal screen just for it. The loadout slot I have set up for the statue has Umbra (colored as close to his original colors) and his nikana.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

28 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And why the hell do you mention sentients? There is no bane mod for them.

There "technically" is but it only exists for Railjack.

[Tiltskillet]

41 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Also, any weapon with innate Radiation will change the faction of the target, making the Bane useless.

  I learn something new about this game every day.  (But forget three things, and have at least one thing I thought I knew proven wrong.)

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Also, any weapon with innate Radiation will change the faction of the target, making the Bane useless.

Not true, at least for the past ~3 years, if it was ever true at all.

1 hour ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Don't forget the Acolytes in SP.

They inherit whatever mission's faction is.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Not true, at least for the past ~3 years, if it was ever true at all.

They inherit whatever mission's faction is.

It only changes the faction of standard mobs. Acolytes, Lich, Sister, hound, and necromechs don't faction change.

That said, don't know if that actually affects bane mods effects since I've never found a use for them in any content under lvl1k. The fact I'd have to swap them between missions as this topic points out is another reason why I'd rather just use a weapon that could 1-2shot anything under 500 than use a lesser weapon that needs a bane to kill in a decent amount of time. If there was a universal bane mod it just be a staple mod for all 3rd rate weapons anyways.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

23 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

It only changes the faction of standard mobs. Acolytes, Lich, Sister, hound, and necromechs don't faction change.

That said, don't know if that actually affects bane mods effects since I've never found a use for them in any content under lvl1k. The fact I'd have to swap them between missions as this topic points out is another reason why I'd rather just use a weapon that could 1-2shot anything under 500 than use a lesser weapon that needs a bane to kill in a decent amount of time. If there was a universal bane mod it just be a staple mod for all 3rd rate weapons anyways.

Banes are basically a poor man's crit already.

[Andele3025]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope since the mod can already be equipped and swapped between missions. The damage wouldnt magically increase because the ease of use gets improved. We arent facing multiple factions at once. And why the hell do you mention sentients? There is no bane mod for them.

Yes there is, bane mods do 100% damage to factions other than chosen much like how radiation does 75% extra (actually more due to effective armor ignore) to alloy armor and 75% less to fossilized health.
As such making it generic all type faction damage is like asking for e.g. magnetic to do + 100% against every armor, hp and shield type.

And i mentioned sentients because a universal bane mod would do extra damage vs them and yes there are, both sacrifical mods give vs sentient faction damage.
As such its not QOL but asking for a outright 220% buff.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

57 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

both sacrifical mods give vs sentient faction damage.

I personally wouldn't consider these bane-like mods though, since they are upgrades from standard damage and critical chance mods with a bonus of extra damage against Sentients. The only mod that is actually a bane mod against sentients is the Railjack mod Sentient Scalpel.

[Andele3025]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

I personally wouldn't consider these bane-like mods though, since they are upgrades from standard damage and critical chance mods with a bonus of extra damage against Sentients. The only mod that is actually a bane mod against sentients is the Railjack mod Sentient Scalpel.

Its faction damage bonus on mod thus are whats colloquially called a bane mod. The fact that the crit one is good on its own or both when together even when not fighting sentients doesnt change that (nor the point that making the faction damage mods into a universal one massive power creep, not qol).

[SpringRocker]

On 2021-08-11 at 5:46 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe I should have explained it further. Bane increases all total damage of a weapon. It doesnt work like serration. Yes you can add it where you like in your equation for the direct damage, that however doesnt show what Bane does to damaging status effects. Where it first works like "serration" then it also multiplies the produced status ontop of that.

So a 30% bane mod increases direct damage which feeds the slash proc for instance, it then again increases the damage of the produced slash proc aswell.

So say you have a base damage mod and a bane mod with equal damage %, which results in a 100 per tick slash proc, well it would end there for the base damage mod, but with the bane mod you'd have 100 x X per tick.

They have their own multipliers and they do different things:

• Serration increases damage of the weapon.
• Bane also increases damage but only when hitting a specific faction (also worth noting that it also "double-dips" on DOTs; something that serration doesn't do).

 

It doesn't matter when/where the numbers are applied, the number doesn't change. The mods effect what they're supposed to and don't effect what they're not supposed to, regardless of where they're placed in the equation. They're their own separate multipliers that apply their own effects no matter what order (it's the same number whether serration is applied first or last).

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're  trying to say.

[SpringRocker]

On 2021-08-11 at 4:49 AM, Parcialsobriedad said:

Add another serration there and show me what would happen.

100 * serration (165%) * bane (30%)
100 * 2.65 * 1.3 = 344.5

100 * 2 serration (330%) * bane (30%)

100 * 4.30 * 1.3 = 559

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Yes there is, bane mods do 100% damage to factions other than chosen much like how radiation does 75% extra (actually more due to effective armor ignore) to alloy armor and 75% less to fossilized health.
As such making it generic all type faction damage is like asking for e.g. magnetic to do + 100% against every armor, hp and shield type.

And i mentioned sentients because a universal bane mod would do extra damage vs them and yes there are, both sacrifical mods give vs sentient faction damage.
As such its not QOL but asking for a outright 220% buff.

No lol it isnt the same as if we were to ask for magnetic doing +100% against everything. Stop claiming things that arent even part of the discussion. And no, sentients would not be effected, since again that isnt what is being asked for. The discussion is about the current intended factions that there is a bane mod for. If for some reason DE decides to add bane of the sentient, then yeah it would also be part of this discussion, but there isnt such a thing.

4 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're  trying to say.

My point is that it isnt like asking for a buff to serration which you impled. Since a serration buff would never result in the same final outcome unless the damage it provides would be drastically increased. Which is even odd that you said, since in the same post you also mentioned the specific mechanical interaction of bane that makes it completely different.

[Parcialsobriedad]

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

100 * serration (165%) * bane (30%)
100 * 2.65 * 1.3 = 344.5

100 * 2 serration (330%) * bane (30%)

100 * 4.30 * 1.3 = 559

i dont think you said that use serration duh instead of banes , but this kinda shows the diminishing returns of flat damage addition , when we were referring to "added after the fact" one of my quotes , doesnt really affect the order of operations as long as you consider the base of the weapon 1.3 maybe not explained enough but somehow this thread was derailed to just damage calculations , not your fault , and the serration posters.

[Parcialsobriedad]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

My point is that it isnt like asking for a buff to serration which you impled. Since a serration buff would never result in the same final outcome unless the damage it provides would be drastically increased. Which is even odd that you said, since in the same post you also mentioned the specific mechanical interaction of bane that makes it completely different.

Just leave a diminishing returns here and there as replies , maybe you will get your point through.

[Parcialsobriedad]

From now on please no more numbers and no dismissing the already underused mods just because "serration exists lol".

Just a small QOL which wont break the game (they are already in-game and they are not game-breaking because by itself is almost a serration(R10 banes are almost equivalent to serration (edit double dipping proc calculation), given how they are the same cost  ) and it scales the more flat damage you add)

Thats it now back to discussing wether or not this is a good bad idea . Yes this isnt a priority change perse and many things have priority but please dont say that this thing or that should be implemented first as it is unrelated to the thread , priority changes mostly are not queued by the community as shown many times

 

 

[SpringRocker]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

My point is that it isnt like asking for a buff to serration which you impled. Since a serration buff would never result in the same final outcome unless the damage it provides would be drastically increased. Which is even odd that you said, since in the same post you also mentioned the specific mechanical interaction of bane that makes it completely different.

Giving bane a buff would be like adding a drastically HUGE buff to damage. Primed versions already exist and they nearly double the output of the normal bane.

In terms of a universal bane, that's basically just like asking for an unconditional version of Blood Rush or Condition Overload for ranged weapons. We don't need more and more power creep, we already boost the output of ranged weapons by 120x-200x. being able to boost it a further 300x doesn't really make sense, hoards of enemies are relatively unchallenging and already melt in seconds as it is.

 

Universal bane makes no sense. Buffing bane is just a straight power boost. Both just add to power creep (we don't need more of it).