It's time to nerf Wukong

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

3 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

I mainly use Wukong Prime's weapons (Zhuge Prime and Ninkondi Prime). It's more interesting and satisfying to use him with more obscure weapons than the more popular weapons.

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Andele3025]

If Wu gets nerfed at all it would be removing the speed boost/having cloud go at base movement speed but allowing speed buffs to effect it.

[Leqesai]

Just now, Incongruous said:

 

You're taking those posts and this thread way too seriously. These are just pixels on your screen and nobody is taking away your toys. Relax.

Nobody is going to nerf our resident monke simply because it brings too much money and player engagement to DE in it's current state. This thread while valid is not going to change that.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Incongruous said:

 

You're taking those posts and this thread way too seriously. These are just pixels on your screen and nobody is taking away your toys. Relax.

Nobody is going to nerf our resident monke simply because it brings too much money and player engagement to DE in it's current state. This thread while valid is not going to change that.

How is complaining for the sake of complaining making the thread valid? 

[Leqesai]

Just now, Andele3025 said:

If Wu gets nerfed at all it would be removing the speed boost/having cloud go at base movement speed but allowing speed buffs to effect it.

Cloudwalker was already nerfed by having it not retain momentum, as far as I know. I believe it used to be even faster than it is now.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

Cloudwalker was already nerfed by having it not retain momentum, as far as I know. I believe it used to be even faster than it is now.

As far as I remember yeah. It was nigh uncontrollable back then. Definitely an improvement there imo.

[MysteriousTenno]

Let's nerf Saryn instead, or Mirage clones, or Octavia everything (who literally can be invisible none stop with cc and dmg) and etc :3 An old pal Wukong just fast dude with 2 fun abilities and 2 meh. He nothing compare to nuke frames that we have more than one. His popularity probably just coz it's fun frame for new players. U can easily counter his cloud speed with Titania prime super crazy flying or operator fast dashes with arcane that gives warframe insta heals, or Gauss with his dashes and etc.

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, MysteriousTenno said:

Let's nerf Saryn instead, or Mirage clones, or Octavia everything (who literally can be invisible none stop with cc and dmg) and etc :3 An old pal Wukong just fast dude with 2 fun abilities and 2 meh. He nothing compare to nuke frames that we have more than one. His popularity probably just coz it's fun frame for new players. U can easily counter his cloud speed with Titania prime super crazy flying or operator fast dashes with arcane that gives warframe insta heals, or Gauss with his dashes and etc.

[krc473]

21 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Most likely it would be titania. She is far faster than volt and has much better vertical mobility. Volt would be next after her then Gauss then Nova.

While I agree that Titania would probably be the best choice, Volt seems to be a frame many people already have. I don’t see a lot of Titanias around. So I would expect that the usage of both would increase for speed clearing missions.

17 minutes ago, Incongruous said:

Because most Wukongs I saw were using some high-AoE weapons and many of them just Bramma'd their feet after running into a crowd of enemies. Wukong users are prone to using AoE weapons, even more than most other players, so returning self-damage to it's former glory would decimate their population _{^{because as we all know - monkeys can't aim}}. 

I will be honest, I haven’t seen many Wukongs using AoE weapons lately - I don’t even remember the last time I saw someone with a Bramma. I have only given my clone AoE weapons while levelling them - I like an Amprex with my clone. I don’t think adding self-damage will have the effect you are after. I could be wrong about that though.

 

 

[MysteriousTenno]

Just now, Leqesai said:

[Quedion]

42 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

Wukong is pretty useless.

He deals no damage in comparison to the damage-dealing warframes (Ember, Saryn, etc).

He offers no party support.

He cannot heal allies.

He cannot debuff enemies.

He offers very little crownd control.

And, to make it worse, he breaks content by being the perfect AFKer tool.

Ah, yes.

I'm asking DE to nerf the most used warframe in the game. Of course a lot of players are not going to like this. Imagine someone pre-nerf asking DE to nerf the Kuva Nukor - were this reddit, that post would have been downvoted to oblivion.

And wukong was another issue - AFKers, leechers and exploiters are not going to want DE to nerf it. Since it's the perfect tool for leeching, of course leechers won't want to lose it. So it's no surprise that I'll get answers like "just let people be AFK" or "just let people leech".

I don't know man, ever play Inaros?

[Erasculio]

41 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Edit: you should let people leech, it can often be beneficial. It’s pretty easy for one or two people to kill the extra enemies you get from a few leechers. Do report AFK behaviour if it bothers you, but don’t pretend like Wukong is the reason - people will do it with any frame.

As I said, people who leech are of course not going to want Wukong to be nerfed.

 

40 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Also, I think it should also be noted that wukong has incredibly high usage rate partially because it is the fastest frame in the game (for clearing missions). People speed-clear with wukong. If you were to nerf his cloud walker they'd just move on to the next fastest frame and that would spike in usage regardless of whether or not the frame is actually good.

Titania is consistently faster, see the speed clear videos with her.

Why isn't Titania used as much? Because her abilities do not allow for easy leeching like Wukong's abilities do.

Wukong isn't used so much because he's faster. He's used so much because he's the perfect frame for leechers.

[Leqesai]

28 minutes ago, krc473 said:

While I agree that Titania would probably be the best choice, Volt seems to be a frame many people already have. I don’t see a lot of Titanias around. So I would expect that the usage of both would increase for speed clearing missions.

48 minutes ago, Incongruous said:

People would migrate to whatever frame fills the niche though. There weren't many wukong players until people started flocking to it for its unparalleled clear speed potential.

19 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

Titania is consistently faster, see the speed clear videos with her.

Why isn't Titania used as much? Because her abilities do not allow for easy leeching like Wukong's abilities do.

Wukong isn't used so much because he's faster. He's used so much because he's the perfect frame for leechers.

Wukong is able to consistently clear faster than titania. It goes without saying that she is technically faster but her speed is largely more difficult to control. 

People aren't flocking to wukong because they want to AFK leech. For whatever reason you've fallen into this mode of thinking but it is absolutely not the case. AFK wukongs are the minority whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You've become biased/jaded based on your own experience but your experience is not reflective of the way things actually work. I've seen AFK players use all warframes. In fact, I've seen less Wukong AFK players than I have players using other frames. 

Furthermore, if a player is actually AFK the celestial twin stops working... So I fail to see how Wukong players are more likely to AFK leech than other frames. The ability you're whining about doesn't even work when a player becomes inactive... And if a player is standing around watching their twin kill stuff and occasionally hitting a button to avoid becoming inactive then guess what... they're not AFK leeching. Their clone is actively contributing to the team....

[krc473]

11 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

As I said, people who leech are of course not going to want Wukong to be nerfed.

Wukong is generally detrimental for leeching affinity. You want others to be getting the kills, not your clone. You never explained why you thought your statement was correct - I don’t think it is correct. People that AFK I can totally understand objecting to a nerf. 

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Wukong is generally detrimental for leeching affinity. You want others to be getting the kills, not your clone. You never explained why you thought your statement was correct - I don’t think it is correct. People that AFK I can totally understand objecting to a nerf. 

This is another good point. Kills with the clone count towards your frame but you do not get shared affinity across your weapons the same way that you would if you were leeching with any other frame (or no twin).

[MysteriousTenno]

Just now, Erasculio said:

He's used so much because he's the perfect frame for leechers.

So you saying all this ppl who using him leeches? And he is perfect frame for this gross popular doing. Those many and many bad ppl didn't play Limbo or Inaros for sure hehe. Ok actually i agree with you, De need nerf Wukong, just for justice, giggles and crying crowd sake, we need something change in the game for once in a while anyway, plus i need that someone look at Limbo and ask himself "Did i forgot about him??"

[Old_Fogie]

9 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

As I said, people who leech are of course not going to want Wukong to be nerfed.

 

Titania is consistently faster, see the speed clear videos with her.

Why isn't Titania used as much? Because her abilities do not allow for easy leeching like Wukong's abilities do.

Wukong isn't used so much because he's faster. He's used so much because he's the perfect frame for leechers.

Sounds more likely that your miffed over some experiences with peeps who went AFK while in a squad, and/or peeps who you felt were leaching off of you more than issues with the actual frame itself. Monkey Boi was in a vastly worse shape than he is now, to where he is actually fun to play as a generalist for pretty much any content ( depending on build of course).

As for peeps who you feel are AFK with his clone, simply send in a ticket with the corresponding evidence to DE. Although personally, I have no issue with someone grabbing a snackie or a quick bio during an endurance/farm run ( especially if they say something in chat). Also, it's not like you can't msg to see if their active. As for leeching, It's War Frame. As long as someone is within the rad of AP gain, there is going to be leeching. It's how the system works. Additionally, if you don't want leachers, potential afk'ers, or even Monkey's in your squad, either leave the squad and find another one, or simply go solo. 

 

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, Old_Fogie said:

Sounds more likely that your miffed over some experiences with peeps who went AFK while in a squad, and/or peeps who you felt were leaching off of you more than issues with the actual frame itself. Monkey Boi was in a vastly worse shape than he is now, to where he is actually fun to play as a generalist for pretty much any content ( depending on build of course).

As for peeps who you feel are AFK with his clone, simply send in a ticket with the corresponding evidence to DE. Although personally, I have no issue with someone grabbing a snackie or a quick bio during an endurance/farm run ( especially if they say something in chat). Also, it's not like you can't msg to see if their active. As for leeching, It's War Frame. As long as someone is within the rad of AP gain, there is going to be leeching. It's how the system works. Additionally, if you don't want leachers, potential afk'ers, or even Monkey's in your squad, either leave the squad and find another one, or simply go solo. 

 

I feel like this needs to be reiterated.

Celestial Twin stops working if a player becomes inactive.

If a player is barely participating, but they are never going into inactive state, then the twin is essentially participating and getting kills in a manner that makes wukong more helpful than any other frame someone might go AFK with.

Also, if we're going to ride the boat of whining about AFK play, there are definitely better options (Ivara? Inaros? Hydroid puddle? etc.).

[Old_Fogie]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I feel like this needs to be reiterated.

Celestial Twin stops working if a player becomes inactive.

If a player is barely participating, but they are never going into inactive state, then the twin is essentially participating and getting kills in a manner that makes wukong more helpful than any other frame someone might go AFK with.

Also, if we're going to ride the boat of whining about AFK play, there are definitely better options (Ivara? Inaros? Hydroid puddle? etc.).

Yeah, agreed. Definitely a lot better options for afk.

[Erasculio]

23 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Wukong is able to consistently clear faster than titania. It goes without saying that she is technically faster but her speed is largely more difficult to control.

Thus your previous point was wrong - that nerfing Wukong would be meaningless because people would just jump to the second faster warframe. It's not just a matter of speed - it's easy to leech with Wukong, easier than with other warframes.

9 minutes ago, Old_Fogie said:

As for leeching, It's War Frame. As long as someone is within the rad of AP gain, there is going to be leeching. It's how the system works.

Isn't it interesting how the Venn diagram of people who don't want Wukong to be nerfed and who think AFKing is ok is basically a circle?

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I think Wukong is boring but he does not need to be nerfed. the biggest issue I have with him is his one follows you wherever you go (including Atlas` 4th) it has a range where you if you`re too far from it it teleports to you, you can`t be in two places at once, you could be in two places at once with Atlas` 4th but they give it the clone treatment and ruined me enjoying Atlas.

 

This improvements would make me love to play Wukong: 

Spoiler

1st ability:

·       Wukong should spawn two clones, one using primary weapon and the other secondary weapon. When you switch weapons, one of the clones will switch to melee.

-        Wukong constantly switching from gun to melee affects the clone’s performance which is a problem.

·        Since you have two clones, you can mark up to two enemies for each of them to attack.

·        After marking the enemy, the clone(s) should teleport to the target.

-        When marking while the clone is using a melee weapon, the clone takes a long time to reach the target. If using guns, it`s stuck in a spot and can`t kill the target because of obstacles in the way.

·       Clones can use whatever stance you have in your melee weapon and stance from the 4th ability.

·       When you crouch the clone will crouch and not attack enemies unless you mark them.

·       When using melee, the clone`s sprint speed is increased by 30%

-        I noticed that the clone is better at using guns than a melee weapon.

·        Instead of the clone teleporting to you when you move far from it, pressing the ability on the ground will teleport the clone to that location.

-        In defence missions you want the clone to attack enemies but if you move far from it, it teleports to you which is something you don`t want.

·       If you target an airborne enemy while the clone has a melee weapon equipped, it will either jump at the enemy doing melee attacks while staying in the air or will extend his staff to hit the enemy multiple times.

·       You can mark enemies while looking through a window.

·       The clone while using a melee weapon can deal with airborne enemies by either pouncing at them doing melee attacks in the air which keeps him suspended in the air for 5 seconds or he can extend his staff to jab the enemy that does a massive amount of damage and his no range limit.

 

2nd ability:

·       Pressing the left trigger (controller) should give the option to Increase or decrease it`s speed.

·       Sentinels and companions are invulnerable while activated.

 

3rd ability:

·       There is no limit to how much armour you can receive.

 

4th ability:

·       The second part of the combo with the kick animation should (small) ragdoll the enemy hit instead of a knockdown.

·       The ground slam animation should look like the slams when Wukong`s staff is bigger. (the slam we have now looks weak)

·       The ground finisher animation should be Wukong jabbing his staff into the enemy`s back.

·       Pressing the secondary fire while aiming at an enemy will jab his staff into the dealing damage and pull Wukong to them doing a flykick closing the gap.

Fix: When Wukong stands still with no weapons equipped, the animation is meant to show him with the staff in his hand but you can`t see (it`s been like this since he was released in 2015).

 

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

Thus your previous point was wrong - that nerfing Wukong would be meaningless because people would just jump to the second faster warframe. It's not just a matter of speed - it's easy to leech with Wukong, easier than with other warframes.

No.. You're missing the point entirely.

Also, your claim that Wukong is a better leech than others is just wrong... 

Clone stops working if a player becomes AFK

Kills with the clone only count towards warframe affinity (meaning you end up getting less weapon affinity because the clone kills a lot of enemies). Kills with the clone also mean you are not getting shared affinity.

 

The issue here is your perception of Wukong players, not Wukong as a frame.

[kyori]

42 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

He's used so much because he's the perfect frame for leechers.

Maybe you yourself had many bad experiences with AFK leeching wukongs... but from reading what you said like the clone doing all the killing and fast cloud to extraction etc, I think what you really want to say is that players don't really need any effort to play as wukong.

Like some others have said, using Limbo is even easier to go AFKish or leech by simply going into the rift.

[Old_Fogie]

3 minutes ago, Erasculio said:

Thus your previous point was wrong - that nerfing Wukong would be meaningless because people would just jump to the second faster warframe. It's not just a matter of speed - it's easy to leech with Wukong, easier than with other warframes.

Isn't it interesting how the Venn diagram of people who don't want Wukong to be nerfed and who think AFKing is ok is basically a circle?

Lol, wow bro, your really bent on being narrow minded over this, arn't you. As for a circle, your strawman arguments over a Venn diagram ( which is vastly ironic coming from you btw) are invalid. Facts were laid out to you, same for options to avoid any continuing issues. Nope, you still have the over whelming need to to make sure your right no matter what.

Lol, ok. Well, you go ahead and have fun with that.

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, kyori said:

Like some others have said, using Limbo is even easier to go AFKish or leech by simply going into the rift.

Exactly.