It's time to nerf Wukong

[DrivaMain]

Wukong is a generalist frame, once you take this frame into a specialized content like for example Eidolons this frame will fall short.

If you want to see what an actual brain dead frame that ruins other people's experience looks like take a loot at Mesa, Saryn, and Limbo.

[Yuzuki-Prime]

On 2021-08-19 at 6:00 AM, Erasculio said:

degenerate gameplay

🤣🤣🤣
Degenerate gameplay.

I really don't have much to add to this thread, but "degenerate gameplay" #*!%ing slayed me.
imo; you seem to get worked up too much about how others play. Sure, I can understand sometimes it's frustrating when people leech, but...like...why does that really bother you?
I remember playing the Dog Days event where on a number of matches I had all 3 of my other team mates just go AFK on a rock or a tree while I did all the killing. Annoying? Sure, a little bit, but honestly, at the end of the day; I still got the same rewards, I still accomplished the same thing, and their AFK literally affected me in no way. Getting angry or frustrated at these kinds of players isn't going to change their life, but it will make you feel worse. It's never fun to be angry. So it's better to try to find the enjoyment in what you are doing, and if you there is nothing you can find that is entertaining about what you are doing then...why do you keep doing it?
I've had great PUG squads where I and maybe 2 other strangers just chat S#&$. The other guy maybe is AFK, but who cares. I had fun talking to those other 2 dudes. So basically; ignore the bad players (besides, maybe not all, but maybe some need to AFK for an emergency, maybe it's not their intent to leave you stranded), and just find some enjoyment in other aspects of the game. Or, quit playing the game and/or game type/grind if you feel so angry by these things. 🤷‍♀️

/dad lecture

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2021-08-18 at 2:00 PM, Erasculio said:

Take a look at the Warframe: 2020 Year in Review post. Wukong Prime is the most used waframe in the game; on PC, it's used twice more often than the third warframe in the list (which just happens to be Excalibur, a starting frame), and it only increases down from there.

That's not a problem, its a natural distribution found pretty much everywhere.

Lookup Zipf's Law.

[Teridax68]

While I don't necessarily agree with the proposed solutions, I can agree with the criticism: Wukong's rework, for all its successes, has also ended up creating a frame that retains some of the original's problems of AFK gameplay, except makes it actually strong. The passive generally doesn't do much except prevent Wukong from dying when going AFK, his 1 makes the game play itself, and his 2 is designed to just bypass any sort of interaction with the game, chiefly lasers.

My suggestions to bring Wukong back in line:

• Reduce Wukong's passive to just a single self-resurrection. However, allow Wukong to charge it up through combat, e.g. by building up a gauge every time he attacks an enemy (and Wukong himself, not his clone).
• Have the damage and health of Wukong's clone rapidly decay over time, but go right back up when Wukong himself attacks enemies. Perhaps raise the clone's max health and damage output in compensation.
• Remove the invisibility from Wukong's cloud and prevent it from bypassing lasers and barriers. In general, no ability or mod should prevent a frame from tripping detection lasers when passing through them.

Basically, nerf Wukong severely when he's going AFK, and take away completely his power to breeze through Spy vaults without interacting with them at all, but keep his combat power more or less the same if the player's actively participating. He may need more changes (his 4 on the flipside is awful and could do with some changes to make it unique and powerful), but priority should go to preventing him from trivializing certain missions.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

While I don't necessarily agree with the proposed solutions, I can agree with the criticism: Wukong's rework, for all its successes, has also ended up creating a frame that retains some of the original's problems of AFK gameplay, except makes it actually strong. The passive generally doesn't do much except prevent Wukong from dying when going AFK, his 1 makes the game play itself, and his 2 is designed to just bypass any sort of interaction with the game, chiefly lasers.

My suggestions to bring Wukong back in line:

• Reduce Wukong's passive to just a single self-resurrection. However, allow Wukong to charge it up through combat, e.g. by building up a gauge every time he attacks an enemy (and Wukong himself, not his clone).
• Have the damage and health of Wukong's clone rapidly decay over time, but go right back up when Wukong himself attacks enemies. Perhaps raise the clone's max health and damage output in compensation.
• Remove the invisibility from Wukong's cloud and prevent it from bypassing lasers and barriers. In general, no ability or mod should prevent a frame from tripping detection lasers when passing through them.

Basically, nerf Wukong severely when he's going AFK, and take away completely his power to breeze through Spy vaults without interacting with them at all, but keep his combat power more or less the same if the player's actively participating. He may need more changes (his 4 on the flipside is awful and could do with some changes to make it unique and powerful), but priority should go to preventing him from trivializing certain missions.

Clever, I see what you did there

these suggestions are actually Strong Buffs for most Wukong players

but they're disguised as being punishments for AFKers (who in practice are a tiny minority)

so by playing off the overdramaticized fears of the haters, you're actually helping Wukong.

 

-rechargable Immortal Techniques? Yes please!

-killing stuff heals my Clone? Yay! I'm doing that anyway.

 

oh OK, the laser barricade thing is a nerf, I disagree. Let more abilities bypass lasers: Ivara Augment can walk through them, and I think Limbo should be able to as well when in rift (currently can't, but should), I'd even suggest that Invisibility in general should be allowed to pass through them, for what little value invisibility currently has.

[Teridax68]

6 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Clever, I see what you did there

these suggestions are actually Strong Buffs for most Wukong players

but they're disguised as being punishments for AFKers (who in practice are a tiny minority)

so by playing off the overdramaticized fears of the haters, you're actually helping Wukong.

 

-rechargable Immortal Techniques? Yes please!

-killing stuff heals my Clone? Yay! I'm doing that anyway.

 

oh OK, the laser barricade thing is a nerf, I disagree. Let more abilities bypass lasers: Ivara Augment can walk through them, and I think Limbo should be able to as well when in rift (currently can't, but should), I'd even suggest that Invisibility in general should be allowed to pass through them, for what little value invisibility currently has.

I mean, the key intent is to punish AFKing on Wukong, but not just screw over Wukong players in the process. The risk with suggestion 1) is that the clone may be useless if Wukong's killing enemies fine by himself, and the problem with suggestion 2) is the same as with Hydroid's puddle and Nyx's base 4, in that not being able to move for any amount of time in Warframe isn't fun. I don't think Wukong needs a buff by any measure, but I don't think whichever changes he receives should cripple him either.

I'm also of the opposite opinion with bypassing lasers, because when an ability lets a frame bypass lasers, that frame ends up trivializing Spy vaults, with Wukong as the biggest offender. Invisibility isn't amazing right now because it doesn't provide a huge advantage in horde combat loaded with AoE damage, but I don't think the solution should be to make any frame with invisibility auto-win Spy missions.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I'd like to point out

that Wukong has already received a Stealth Nerf, with the 'arsenal divide' update.

 

In order to scale into Steel Path, we need to use Galvanized Mods and Gun Arcanes.

The Galvanized mods in particular, have Lower Base Performance than their normal counterparts, requiring Kill Stacks to become effective.

However, the Wukong Clone (and Specters, and On-Call Crew) do not track kills and none of them benefit from either Galvanized Mods or Gun Arcanes. (your own kill stacks do not transfer to the clone, and he is unable to gain any himself)

 

In high level content my Clone falls behind me. While never directly stated, I do believe this was a hidden intent with the Kill Dynamics of the Arsenal Divide changes. -they don't apply to AI, only active human engagement benefits.

 

 

[George_PPS]

On 2021-08-18 at 2:00 PM, Erasculio said:

.....

So among all your warframes, Wukong is the no. 2 LEAST played frame on your list. Only 0.2% usage. I wonder why you hate this frame? If it is as useless as you stated, why does it bother you? If it is other players main frame, it is none of your business. Someone triggered you in some games? Wukong/prime is a "generalist" frame for general missions, not a 'specialist" frame. Why does that bother you? Should your no.1 frame Ember/Prime be nerfed? Many abilities also kill enemies by ways of AFK one way or the other. And Wukong is not AFK. If you do not play actively, the Twin will stop! I'd be happy if anyone bring their best frames to my missions and help kill enemies to make it easy. 

[George_PPS]

On 2021-08-18 at 5:42 PM, Leqesai said:

I'd put money on you thinking people are AFK when they actually aren't. I bet this has happened quite a few times given the way you're responding in this thread. You seem insistent on pushing an issue that is not actually an issue simply because you want it to be true. You have also been explained multiple times why Celestial Twin works against AFK leeching. But I'll explain it again:

1. Celestial Twin shuts off when a player goes inactive. This means true AFK play doesn't work

2. Celestial Twin also constantly gets kills. Kills with Celestial Twin only count towards Warframe Affinity. People who leech get global affinity (warframe + primary + secondary + melee). Using Celestial Twin means AFK players actually end up with less affinity than they would otherwise.

3. Celestial Twin constantly getting kills ends up benefiting the other players because its kills count as global affinity to them. 

So ultimately you're whining about an ability that does nothing but hinder the person using it, because you don't like the way people choose to play the game? If you're playing with someone who is AFK, it is better that they're AFK with wukong because at least then you'll leech some global affinity from their laziness. They could go AFK with Limbo much easier and pull in higher affinity numbers. 

 

I think you just need to get over it. They're not going to change Wukong just because you don't like that he's the most popular Warframe (based on the metric you shared). And they're sure not going to change Wukong because you think people are abusing him to go AFK. People go AFK with all the frames and there are frames (like Limbo) that are simply more obnoxious than Wukong if people are going to go down this road. At least with Wukong they're contributing to the kill count while AFK. Unless you're salty that they're outperforming you without trying...

Thank you for pointing out the obvious and logical. Previously, TOO MANY players' toxic ideas got implemented into the game through out 2017 and 2020. The game nearly got destroyed and many players left. Now we are seeing a new revival of the game in 2021 and huge buffs and meta frames coming out one after another. And new players are joining and old players are coming back for the fun! The least thing we want to see now is these terrible ideas for one's selfish and false reasons.  

[Andele3025]

18 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

That's not a problem, its a natural distribution found pretty much everywhere.

Lookup Zipf's Law.

I know its nitpicking but not only is it not natural distribution, but it also isnt a case of zipfian distribution because the most popular changes by context/unrelated environmental changes, not just time or changes of the net system. AND we dont have unaccounted variables, we know wu is popular due to afkability, speed and passive which guarantees survival in the shorter mission lengths.

True tho that it isnt really a problem as long as DE designs content well.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

17 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

However, the Wukong Clone (and Specters, and On-Call Crew) do not track kills and none of them benefit from either Galvanized Mods or Gun Arcanes. (your own kill stacks do not transfer to the clone, and he is unable to gain any himself)

I can confirm that this is false, at least for the clone with Galvanized mods. A test with Nightwatch Napalm and Galvanized Chamber shows that the clone first fires ~2 rockets, then ~3, proving that the Galvanized mod works. The player needs no stacks for this to work.

[Lotus-123]

Lately I've been playing Wukong most of the time, so I guess that I'm part of the problem. However, I'd rather that DE fix the *reason* that I'm using Wukong rather than nerfing it. In my opinion, Wukong is a relatively weak warframe - but I still play him because when I try to join a public mission with open squads, I frequently find that I'm all alone. With Wukong's clone, my companion, and a vapor spector, I still have a chance to complete the mission.

To sum up, if DE would find some way to improve the squad matching, I wouldn't be playing Wukong nearly as much.

[Vortex]

Make another warframes usefull first, Wukong even nuke the entire map just by smashing your empty head into the keyboard.

[taiiat]

you see Wukongs in stuff sometimes because Wukong is the new Inaros. it's the lowest common denominator Warframe. the one that it's (usually) the hardest for a low skill Player to fail a Mission with. 
(don't y'all get your panties bunched up, if you aren't a low skill Player and you're using Wukong, you should know that isn't directed towards you)

but the tradeoff is that now you're Wukong, instead of one that has Abilities that make the Mission go much faster or more smoothly, Et Cetera.
people have the choice to be selfish like that, and end up hurting both them and their Squad in turn. their choice is their mistake.
it's an easy Warframe to use, and as a result isn't particularly efficient.

i'm not sure i see a problem with that.

 

On 2021-08-18 at 5:00 PM, Erasculio said:

it's not unusual to be in random squads with more than one Wukong Prime.

that would be pretty unusual for me.

 

 

7 hours ago, Lotus-123 said:

To sum up, if DE would find some way to improve the squad matching, I wouldn't be playing Wukong nearly as much.

yeah, if only the game didn't split the Playerbase to such ridculous levels. 

see also:

Spoiler

On 2021-07-28 at 4:08 PM, taiiat said:

i'm not even really asking for everything to be snooze path, just the bare minimum so that the game isn't just always this crap.

snooze path being separate is understandable. but there has to be a way to reduce these permutations of exactly the same Mission.

 

On 2021-07-28 at 4:25 PM, taiiat said:

specifically avoiding it wouldn't really make it better, either way you'd still need to play Missions 3-4x as much, as that's what the game is asking out of us. play __ Mission 239023 times to grind stuff, then do that again for other different stuff, then do that again for other different stuff.....

like, Kuva Siphons should be able to be in normal Missions. it can just be like a teaser that a new Player sees from time to time. it's optional to Mission completion which works out quite alright there, especially if people are always allowed to self extract.
Void Tears could be.... adjusted to work differently so that they also, can just be a part of the normal Mission. 

 

Liches are high enough difficulty that like snooze path, i get that merging those permutations isn't practical. but what i mentioned would be such a big improvement already.

 

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

you see Wukongs in stuff sometimes because Wukong is the new Inaros. it's the lowest common denominator Warframe. the one that it's (usually) the hardest for a low skill Player to fail a Mission with. 

You son of a...

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

(don't y'all get your panties bunched up, if you aren't a low skill Player and you're using Wukong, you should know that isn't directed towards you)

Nevermind.

 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

[B2-Banger]

I don't think nerfing Wukong would "fix" any of the underlying problems, as to why you do not like Wukong, or at least stated presently. Is he the most used Warframe as of 2020? That wouldn't be an unreasonable thing to hear, but what are the key factors that play into that result. Certainly, an AFK heavy gameplay style helps, but there are likely going to be other factors going on. Wukong has a lot of passive benefits, which as you've been pointing out does benefit AFK-ing quite heavily. His passive, his clone, and his base stats are all very enticing to a leech. But, that style of gameplay would extend to beyond just Wukong, is Wukong one of the easier frames to utilize to afk? He certainly has a lot of qualities that favours him in this position, but:

Warframe, is a very degenerative game. Past the flashy animations and cool explosions, the base game has cool flashy mobility and attacks... and a massive amount of grinding. And, I don't have anything against grinding, but there is SO much grinding. And, a great way to grind without burning out is by leeching/afking your way to the top. Wukong isn't the only frame to do this, there are countless frames, there are countless builds. The players are the ones AFK'ing, Wukong is just there to help, this issue is merely the tip of the iceberg.

A leech is always going to be terrible, and leeches benefit greatly from the Warframe team system. EXP is shared evenly between party members, resource drops are shared equally to all players, and the mission's completion is shared between all players. But, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, because the opposite would be everyone would just play solo because if their kills get stolen from them they wouldn't get anything or as much of a bonus and it would heavily prioritize DPS and negatively impact more supportive/utility based Warframes.

 

In today's climate, the popular choice for leeches are "Tanks". They have a lot of HP, Armour, they don't die, are able to just stand there and... just exist. And, that's really all you need to leech.

Exist.

If it isn't Wukong, it'll be Inaros, if it isn't Inaros it'll be a Rhino who doesn't roar. If it isn't a Tank, then people will get freaky, and use a limbo who stays in the rift or a Baruuk who just stays in evasion stance. Personally, I afk grind a lot more with a Warframe like Wisp. Put down a mote, and just spray with a gun doing basically F#&k all. Effectively I am basically afking just as much as a Wukong. Doing basically nothing for the team, unable to be killed, waiting for the mission objective to finish.

"But Wisp Buff, is actually helpful" but it's still AFK'ing, and the player, specifically the individual, the player is still useless. Supports are the more helpful versions of leeches, they actually do things unlike "tanks" its just, Warframe is a game in which you can very easily solo every bit of content in the game, and proper team coordination and composition doesn't matter. There is no difficulty factor, so ultimately, why does it matter that a Wukong is just standing there with his clone spraying an Ignis at a pack of grineer?

It will still clear the mission, and still win the game.

Ironically, Wukong is the ONLY Warframe, who best defines his archaic RPG trope/role, as a tank. Because as of current he is the only semi-durable Warframe with the unique Tank based utility, most multiplayer games would give to the Tank class, a taunt. Defy, Wukong's unque tank ability, it's a terrible taunt, but Wukong is currently the only Warframe himself, WITH A TAUNT. Not that Taunt based systems are great, or that Warframe's Taunt system is amazing, because it basically doesn't exist. But, Wukong is the ONLY TANK in the entire game. Also he has a unique niche is doing spies because his cloud walk is both invisibility and immunity to lasers, so he is one of the few durable Warframes that CAN be useful, that even has the CAPACITY to be useful is a given scenario. You have Warframe like Inaros, who is basically a passive who uses melee finishers, because his 1 is a worse radial blind but sets up for a finisher and his 2 and 3 are literally garbage or useless, and his 4 is ACTUALLY a passive. Being, completely honest, he is just an HP bar and not a Warframe.

Before the Tank craze, people would AFK with Nekros, and spam desecrate, some people set up macros and actually AFK'ed while people played the game around them. Warframe changes desecrate to a channel, and now people do actually AFK. But, noone was against it, because they got extra loot, mind you the leech had no intention of benefiting the other players, for his sole interests are in himself, but because the leech is a support, supposedly it was okay. It wasn't, there was some mild backlash when people were complaining about 2-3 Nekros in a squad not doing anything, that fundamentally hasn't changed since.

And, whats the solution to a player, walking back and forth spraying a round of bullets in a direction. What separates a Wukong firing a gun, and you firing a gun? Make it so Headshots are the metric for defining gameplay? Players who have poorer aim are arbitrarily subjected to punishments because of their lack of aim? Not being able to benefit from Headshots should be the punishment? Or maybe it shouldn't maybe we should go in hard, on game mechanics. What is the right answer? Because, unfortunately, there isn't a lot of gameplay difference, that generally separates a leech from a non-leech.

Even if, looking at the Frame usage percentages, Wukong, is admittedly a bit high, BUT if you look at the next 10 or so Warframes, they are also riding very high on the usage charts. But if you noticed something, Volt and Rhino, aren't necessarily too far off. Combine both Volt and Volt Prime which is basically the same frame, you have 6.1% usage, and combine both Rhino you have something similar to 6% usage and admittedly some of those frames, are beginners frames, and the beginners make up the bottom and the bottom is a portion of our pyramid, and generally makes up the bulk. Everybody pretty much has access, to Excalibur, Rhino, Volt, and Mag. But, Why is base Wukong not even half of the 7.5% that Prime is? Prime is just better, but accessibility? Shouldn't Base Wukong who is available from Dojo be at least somewhat close to base Volt in usage? In case people have forgotten Wukong wasn't vaulted that long ago, his relics would probably be one of the larger shares in people's owned inventory, he was/is easily and readily accessible for the year 2020. Essentially 7.5% usage factors in both Base and PRIME Wukong. He should have been the most available Prime Warframe, alongside Mesa Prime I believe. The top 12 or so Warframes sit at about 3% usage, looking at all other Warframe who ride on 1% to sub 1%, they sit around about 50%-200% higher above the total averages. All the top dozen Warframes, are contenders to being equally overused. But, why are they less of a problem? I'm not supporting a Saryn nerf, because she is bae, but she is one of the only, decent, AoE nuke/dps Warframes that genuinely has appropriate or scaling damage. Gauss and Khora are also strong nuke Warframes, but there's little competition in their field even though, I'm pretty sure every Warframe has SOME form of AoE nuke no matter how mediocre and garbage in the form of their 1 or 3 or so besides like Ash. So whats the reason for such a wide disparity?

DPS has a problem, Tanks have a problem (the lack thereof), Warframe as a game and the fundamental idea of leeching is a problem.

This topic is more than just buff/nerf frames, it is essentially rework the entire game from scratch. This is more than a topic of a few dozen Warframes: It is a conversation about base combat mechanics and difficulty, probably more defined class structure, and a overall restructuring of the game's player communication and player coordination, and maybe even about power creep.

Wukong is a solid choice of a Warframe, because Warframe is the game that it is. He doesn't just entice people who AFK, you have less so competent player, who appreciate that added HP. You have players who main Wukong, because they like his ascetics or something (There are even people who think his Deluxe skin looks good, Fite me, You won't). There are people who like exalted melee weapons, and chose Wukong. I think most of these are lesser percentages than actual leeches, but he is a very generalist Warframe, who will appeal to a wide audience and he was VERY accessible for a long period of time (His FULL Prime release and vaulting period).

The greater issue is, people. People are people, and people kind of suck. The people are very kind, but they are kind of bad.

Ultimately Warframe is a Power Fantasy Game, and so long as you are powerful why does it matter? Wukong doesn't die, and honestly, that's probably all you need. The two extremes of Nerf everything, or even the counter for the bottom 1% Buff Everything. Which is the right answer? It's probably somewhere in between, but that's assuming that there's a problem to begin with. Like it or not, right now, this is Warframe, it is who we are. This Is What You Are.

[Yuzuki-Prime]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

that would be pretty unusual for me.

But don't let your own experience color your beliefs, that's a fallacy.

It may depend on the region you play in as well. Since I am in the Asia region, it is nearly guaranteed that I have a Wukong in my PUG, and is not uncommon to have 2 on occasions.

Though, as I mentioned in my previous comment on this thread; at the end of the day, it doesn't really bother me either way. But, it would be nice to see more diversity in my PUGs _{(but we all know pugs have had years of inbreeding, so pugs aren't really diverse. They're just riddled with genetic disorders and breathing problems.)}

[taiiat]

11 minutes ago, Yuzuki-Prime said:

But don't let your own experience color your beliefs, that's a fallacy.

It may depend on the region you play in as well. Since I am in the Asia region, it is nearly guaranteed that I have a Wukong in my PUG, and is not uncommon to have 2 on occasions.

(doesn't that apply to both of us?)

i might suggest that people in that region are predisposed to be more likely to like Wukong as a mythical Character and so may just want to play Wukong because it's Wukong.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Yuzuki-Prime said:

But don't let your own experience color your beliefs, that's a fallacy.

It may depend on the region you play in as well. Since I am in the Asia region, it is nearly guaranteed that I have a Wukong in my PUG, and is not uncommon to have 2 on occasions.

 

I'm in the US, and it seems like there is a Wukong in nearly every random squad...and yet, two is pretty rare and I've only seen three twice I think.

(I actually have a theory that matchmaking tries to put different frames together as much as possible.  Don't know if there's anything to it, but it makes some sense, and I'd love to know if the devs have ever hinted at anything like that.)

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm in the US, and it seems like there is a Wukong in nearly every random squad...and yet, two is pretty rare and I've only seen three twice I think.

(I actually have a theory that matchmaking tries to put different frames together as much as possible.  Don't know if there's anything to it, but it makes some sense, and I'd love to know if the devs have ever hinted at anything like that.)

It's a regional thing, there aren't enough people to bother filling "roles", especially given Warframe isn't using a standard matchmaking system. In the past there were people from China spamming forums demanding Gauss be nerfed because "everyone" was spamming him.

I personally don't see more than 1 Wukong often, and go plenty of missions without one. The only Warframes I saw in abundance was Khora when SP was added, had plenty of random runs with 3x Khora and during SS I saw a lot of people using Limbo/Mesa in Murex and Nova/Mesa for Condrix. During OV people were using Hildryn to generate energy between rooms and for Railjack I'll see Lavos a lot but rarely out of Railjack.

I personally would prefer seeing Warframe usage by content type, rather than just a global one. Even usage by region would be nice to know, considering between PC and Console there's variance in usage, and between MR ranges there's a variance too.

[Yuzuki-Prime]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

(doesn't that apply to both of us?)

Of course it does. In context with the post you were replying to, it appeared like you were trying to disprove his observations based on your own experience. All I was pointing out is that we have a bias towards our own experiences, even though our personal experiences don't accurately reflect everyone's experience. Nonetheless, it's a bit off topic now. Back on track!

11 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

It's a regional thing

Which definitely begs the question how the linked Warframe in 2020 chart would look if it was split by region. No facts to go off of here, but I have a feeling, while Wukong may still be in first, he might not have such a strong lead in other regions. I think it just goes to show that we can't always take published statistics at face value.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Why do you want to nerf a frame that you don't even use yourself?

are you just jealous of seeing a Wukong main having a good time when you aren't?

How about you just ask for your preferred frame to get buffed instead? Then you can feel better without screwing things up for the other guy?

[Vortex]

Yes, nerf Excalibur too, they are using it a lot, ouga bouga.

[Vortex]

On 2021-08-18 at 6:00 PM, Erasculio said:

 

• The first ability is too passive. It's basically a permanent turret that allows a player to be AFK most of the time, while the Celestial Twin kills stuff.

The clone stop attacking after a short time afk, you can play wukong first before S#&$posting into the forum.

On 2021-08-18 at 6:00 PM, Erasculio said:

 

• The second ability makes movement too easy. People can just cloud across the map, while avoiding all content there.

And what you have with that? so are you telling me that bullet jumping the entire map isn't "skiping the content"? your most played warframe is Gauss, Volt and Limbo lmao (please dont enter my missions).