It's time to nerf Wukong

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2022-08-10 at 7:43 AM, Traumtulpe said:

Make Celestial Twin work like Mirage's Hall Of Mirrors. Except only one copy, and less see-through. Still a very good ability, but with 0 AFK application. And if it keeps using your melee as you shoot (and vice-versa), it's still unique enough. I wouldn't mind if it used the same weapon either though.

And if you're feeling generous you could take a look at his exalted staff - it's worse than a normal melee weapon, which already aren't in a great spot after all the nerfs. Or just don't bother, people are currently fixing your mess with the Helminth system, I guess that's fine as well.

So you're saying,

"Make Wukong use gun and melee at the same time in the same place" 

So effectively dual wielding glaive with Bramma in close proximity?

[Venus-Venera]

Am 10.8.2022 um 16:20 schrieb sunderthefirmament:

I'm worried that the nerfs will target both the clone and cloudwalker, but at the same time I kind of think cloudwalker needs it.  You can effectively compare it to the Sorceress' teleport in Diablo 2.  It's an absurdly efficient way to skip content.  When Blizzard made Diablo 3, they put a hefty cooldown on the teleport spell because they didn't want players to be able to skip content so efficiently.  Cloudwalker is Warframe's best content skip.  I don't think it would be out of line to say it's the most valuable utility power in the entire game.

 

As far as the OP's suggestion goes... eh.  I don't love it.  And this is off topic, but I would much rather see changes to Hall of Mirrors than any frame receiving a copy of it.  Mirage deserves a rework due to her egg-timer buff status.  I would love it if her illusions were more like the clones and phantasms created by the Guild Wars 2 Mesmer class.

this is useless because it is only used in low level content (if at all). hardly any def is needed here and almost every warframe can be pimped for speed runs. in addition, bullet jump becomes absurdly effective with mods and new mele weapons.
2nd skill from wukong can't keep up now. and spy (except sorties) are completed with faceroll in record time because ciphers are possible.
and ... sorties are a waste of time because rewards are rubbish and in that time you can generate a lot more than 20 plat with relics runs.......

i can only laugh at the joker who spread mischief and sick lies after the embarrassing news about wukong is "OP".

because I don't care. i have top builds and all content on farm status. but new players will be hit extremely hard. and nobody cares??? it couldn't be more embarrassing......

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

this is useless because it is only used in low level content (if at all). hardly any def is needed here and almost every warframe can be pimped for speed runs. in addition, bullet jump becomes absurdly effective with mods and new mele weapons.
2nd skill from wukong can't keep up now. and spy (except sorties) are completed with faceroll in record time because ciphers are possible.
and ... sorties are a waste of time because rewards are rubbish and in that time you can generate a lot more than 20 plat with relics runs.......

I’m not claiming Cloudwalker is the fastest way to travel in an open road straightaway race or something. That title probably belongs to Titania in her 4. Or maybe max range Nova. I don’t know nor care because that’s not typical gameplay conditions. Most tilesets are crowded with junk and corners, which is where Cloudwalker shines. It’s perfect for navigating the maze of level geometry that DE spams all over their maps to break up sight lines and slow us down. It’s got horizontal and vertical mobility at the perfect speed to beat most other speed frames without going so fast that you can’t control it (like sprinting Titania in her 4 with the augment stacked up). 
 

And since most meaningful rewards are earned through relics, which are farmed at fairly low levels of difficulty, Wukong doesn’t need to be a specialist frame to be super popular. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb sunderthefirmament:

I’m not claiming Cloudwalker is the fastest way to travel in an open road straightaway race or something. That title probably belongs to Titania in her 4. Or maybe max range Nova. I don’t know nor care because that’s not typical gameplay conditions. Most tilesets are crowded with junk and corners, which is where Cloudwalker shines. It’s perfect for navigating the maze of level geometry that DE spams all over their maps to break up sight lines and slow us down. It’s got horizontal and vertical mobility at the perfect speed to beat most other speed frames without going so fast that you can’t control it (like sprinting Titania in her 4 with the augment stacked up). 
 

And since most meaningful rewards are earned through relics, which are farmed at fairly low levels of difficulty, Wukong doesn’t need to be a specialist frame to be super popular. 

Yes. unfortunately wukong offers hardly any advantages. even if he plays very comfortably.
problem is that it's all about plat and there are very effective ways to get a lot of it. Unfortunately, wukong does poorly here. because guys build squads with speed runner and complete relic RAD capture in less than 90 seconds. wukong in publics can never compete here.
and here you have to consider what that means... you earn a lot more than 20 plat per 10 minutes.
for me this is nonsense. but to each his own...

and as already said: wukong offers NO advantages in pubs because i have to wait for the group all the time!

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Since DE are going to look at wukong I'll like to give some suggestions on what I would like to see happen to him.

 

1st ability:

·       Wukong should spawn two clones, one using you secondary weapon and the other using you melee weapon.

-        Wukong constantly switching from gun to melee affects the clone’s performance which is a problem.

-        The two clones will be weaker than what it is now.

·        Since you have two clones, you can mark up to two enemies for each of them to attack.

·        After marking the enemy, the clone(s) should teleport to the target.

-        When marking while the clone is using a melee weapon, the clone takes a long time to reach the target. If using guns, it`s stuck in a spot and can`t kill the target because of obstacles in the way.

·       The melee clone can use whatever stance you have in your melee weapon and stance from the 4th ability.

·       When you crouch the clones will crouch and not attack enemies unless you mark them.

·        Instead of the clones teleporting to you when you move far from it, pressing the ability on the ground will teleport the clone to that location and make them do their own thing unless ordered to do something different.

-        In defence missions you want the clone to attack enemies but if you move far from it, it teleports to you which is something you don`t want.

·       If you target an airborne enemy while the clone has a melee weapon equipped, it will either jump at the enemy doing melee attacks while staying in the air or will extend his staff to hit the enemy multiple times.

·       You can mark enemies while looking through a window.

·       The clone using melee can deal with airborne enemies by either pouncing at them doing melee attacks in the air which keeps him suspended in the air for 5 seconds or he can extend his staff to jab the enemy that does a massive amount of damage and his no range limit.

 

2nd ability:

·       Pressing the left trigger (controller) should give different options to Increase or decrease it`s speed. (not moving is 1st speed, walking is 2nd speed and sprinting is 3rd speed)

·       Sentinels and companions are invulnerable while activated.

·       Remove healing from 2nd ability.

 

3rd ability:

·       There is no limit to how much armour you can receive.

 

4th ability:

·       The second part of the combo with the kick animation should (small) ragdoll the enemy hit instead of a knockdown.

·       The ground slam animation should look like the slams when Wukong`s staff is bigger. (the slam we have now looks weak)

·       The ground finisher animation should be Wukong jabbing his staff into the enemy`s back.

·       Pressing the secondary fire while aiming at an enemy will jab his staff into the dealing damage and pull Wukong to them doing a flykick closing the gap.

 

New synergy:

·       The clones will benefit from the armour from the 3rd ability, this helps maintain their survivability.

 

Fix: When Wukong stands still with no weapons equipped, the animation is meant to show him with the staff in his hand but you can`t see.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

On 2022-08-11 at 3:28 PM, Lutesque said:

We always Believed Specters were Garbage before Wukong's Rework.... 

Celestial Twin isn't Overpowered... He's literally the only one that Actually Works👀....

Necessary for What exactly ? Wukong literally isn't the Best at Anything 🤔...

I initially did this With Limbo and Then with Gara and then Again with Booben....

Since they Added Mechs I do it with those now and it's Significantly Easier to do it with those....

What on Earth Does Wukong Bring to The Table ? If anything it's More Likely that A Rad Proc will make Twin Nuke The cannister Rather Than Protect it.... Assuming he Doesn't Nuke you First.👀...

Wouldn't Titania be Miles Better for This Fight ? 

I'm starting to get the impression that the people who think Wisp and Wukong are Overpowered came to that Conclusion purely from not Understanding what other Warframe's are Capable Of 😐....

Which.... I mean.... Fine.... That just Means it doesn't Affect me and the other players who know how to Actually Cheese this Content 👀....

Next thing you know people will be Accusing Wukong of being too Good in Eidolon Hunts 😱 !!!

 

I unfortunately don't have the time to part this out to reply to specific sections so I will address the whole.

Wukong specifically is a great frame not because he is overpowered but because he requires little to no investment.  The account I am talking about has little in the way of mods.

A week before this post I had gotten barrel diffusion for the first time.

Limbo, gara, vauban, and titania are terrible frames without good mods. Limbo and gara can't defend the thermia canister from the larger enemies well (Lynx, racknoids can go through rift. and cold drives will instantly shatter vitrify. Vauban is made out of glass unless you have proper survivability tools or can lean into the CC of his kit.  Titania is great until she runs out of energy and her dex pixia still requires good pistol mods to shine. 

You may be confusing your later game state with the limitations of the early game.  Caster frames struggle in the strained energy economy. That's why rhino and inaros are considered good for early to mid game because you can't rely on abilities to carry you through missions. 

A good note for the Ropalolyst fight though.  I was somehow able to obtain all components from 4 individual runs in public.  Now I just wait farming the hexenon to build them. 

[Frendh]

I mained Wukong when the rework was first introduced. The Exalted weapon was a lot of fun. Stopped playing him after the staff nerf.  Only use him for the occasional spy mission when I happen to be in a hurry.

[Frendh]

Wukong's 1st ability is easily one of the strongest no. 1s in the game.  No need at all to buff it.

3rd ability gives invulnerability, no need to buff it. No cap is just broken, unlike scaling on iron skin or nezha's ward.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Wukong specifically is a great frame not because he is overpowered but because he requires little to no investment.  The account I am talking about has little in the way of mods.

God For it Somebody Finds a Way to Bypass Warframe's Terrible Terrible Grind....😐

Is that What this is about ? You Suffered therefore Other players must Suffer Too 🤔 ?

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

 

Limbo, gara, vauban, and titania are terrible frames without good mods. Limbo and gara can't defend the thermia canister from the larger enemies well (Lynx, racknoids can go through rift. and cold drives will instantly shatter vitrify. Vauban is made out of glass unless you have proper survivability tools or can lean into the CC of his kit. 

Unfortunately I can't comment on the State of these Options now Because I did these Grinds back when Coil Drives were Bugged, Thermic Raknoids didn't Exist and Corrosive was Actually Useful so Killing Jackals and Larger Raknoids was a None Issue...

This was also back Before The Event was as Bad as it is Now... Atleast back then enough People were doing to atleast get The Bonuses which Encouraged people who already Had the Opticor Vandal to do it aswell to Stock Up on Thermia.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Titania is great until she runs out of energy and her dex pixia still requires good pistol mods to shine. 

Don't bother with Dex Pixia then... Literally all you need is Fairy Mode ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

 

You may be confusing your later game state with the limitations of the early game.  Caster frames struggle in the strained energy economy. That's why rhino and inaros are considered good for early to mid game because you can't rely on abilities to carry you through missions. 

Ironically that's what Makes Rhino Pretty Terrible.... Since Iron Skin is Also an Ability that Means New Players won't have Energy to Cast That Either.... Thus putting them at no Advantage over using Mag or Volt 😝....

Atleast Inaros's Tankyness is Innate and he only Needs Hunters Adrenaline to be Viable.... Unfortunately even now some people still Struggle with That Quest.

 

 

[gamingchair1121]

i thought the purpose of the nerf was to nerf him not keep him at the same power.

having two clones just doubles your damage output. instead the clone needs to be on a timer and drain energy.

the healing part of his 2 isnt the problem. its the speed. the speed needs to be nerfed.

and why make his 3 stronger?

[(PSN)TrueDeMoN100]

On 2021-08-18 at 5:00 PM, Erasculio said:

Take a look at the Warframe: 2020 Year in Review post. Wukong Prime is the most used waframe in the game; on PC, it's used twice more often than the third warframe in the list (which just happens to be Excalibur, a starting frame), and it only increases down from there. This is often reflected in game: it's not unusual to be in random squads with more than one Wukong Prime.

Usually there's a reason for something to be used so much more than everything else. See the Kuva Nukor, that as seen in the same page was used a lot more often than the other secondary weapons, and was deemed to be too strong by DE, getting a very earned nerf.

Wukong (Prime) has the same issues: it's an outlier that deserves a nerf. It has two main issues:

• The first ability is too passive. It's basically a permanent turret that allows a player to be AFK most of the time, while the Celestial Twin kills stuff.
• The second ability makes movement too easy. People can just cloud across the map, while avoiding all content there.

Between those two points, and to a lesser degree Wukong's passives (which basically allows an AFK player to be killed a few times without any repercussion), Wukong is perfect for degenerate gameplay: stay AFK while other players do stuff, moving very once in a while, and then cloud to extraction when people have done all the work for you.

This is made worse by how Warframe protects AFKers. There's not even a report option for those players.

And, this has also been made worse by the recent limits on the Ignore List. Before, we could simply ignore all Wukong Prime AFKers. But there are far, far more than 100 of those players.

Therefore, I would suggest DE to deal with this issue. And while there were some other ways to fix this (increase the ignore list limit, for example), those wouldn't be dealing with the root cause. So I propose two changes to Wukong's abilities:

1. Celestial Twin: summons a Celestial Twin that attacks your current target with your currently equipped weapon. Lasts for 5 second or until the enemies dies, whichever comes first.

The ability then goes from a very "fire and forget" position (it's the ultimate "f&f" ability in the game) to something far more active. Notice how it requires an enemy to be used.

2. Cloud Walker: turns into an invunerable cloud while healing yourself. You cannot move while this ability is in effect; trying to move cancels the effect.

No more clouding around to skip the game. The ability becomes a defensive tool with a nice self heal, nothing more.

Those two changes would solve the current issues with Wukong.

Be greatful for the kit your given wukong does not need a nerf. He needs a buff up his 4th ability and third are lacking. 

 

Your mad about his cloudwalker then I guess your mad about titanias 4th ability because she can fly makes moving to easy. Dude you should be happy your not flying into walls with bullet jump & aim glide every second.

 

This game does not need balance so everyone is equal this is not pvp. Play destiny if you want balance control. This game needs new content not someone to constantly check if the current content needs to be made harder.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb (PSN)TrueDeMoN100:

Be greatful for the kit your given wukong does not need a nerf. He needs a buff up his 4th ability and third are lacking. 

 

Your mad about his cloudwalker then I guess your mad about titanias 4th ability because she can fly makes moving to easy. Dude you should be happy your not flying into walls with bullet jump & aim glide every second.

 

This game does not need balance so everyone is equal this is not pvp. Play destiny if you want balance control. This game needs new content not someone to constantly check if the current content needs to be made harder.

it's correct.
Also, I don't see any wukongs in games. i saw him in game 1 time in 2-3 months and it was resq sortie mission! lol so...

and i don't even want to know what people eat so that they see 2-3 wukongs in every game.

and it's about normal missions? because wukong is nonsense in sp except capture/res, because every dmg warframe is extremely much faster.
then you can do without def and rebuild everything on speed. with mods and new mele weapon, bullet jump has great range and wukong 2nd skill becomes pointless and even slower!

[Frendh]

Let people who enjoy wukong keep their wukong.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)Big Roy 324:

I unfortunately don't have the time to part this out to reply to specific sections so I will address the whole.

Wukong specifically is a great frame not because he is overpowered but because he requires little to no investment.  The account I am talking about has little in the way of mods.

A week before this post I had gotten barrel diffusion for the first time.

Limbo, gara, vauban, and titania are terrible frames without good mods. Limbo and gara can't defend the thermia canister from the larger enemies well (Lynx, racknoids can go through rift. and cold drives will instantly shatter vitrify. Vauban is made out of glass unless you have proper survivability tools or can lean into the CC of his kit.  Titania is great until she runs out of energy and her dex pixia still requires good pistol mods to shine. 

You may be confusing your later game state with the limitations of the early game.  Caster frames struggle in the strained energy economy. That's why rhino and inaros are considered good for early to mid game because you can't rely on abilities to carry you through missions. 

A good note for the Ropalolyst fight though.  I was somehow able to obtain all components from 4 individual runs in public.  Now I just wait farming the hexenon to build them. 

it's correct. I've finally actually seen a wukong prime for months! did you know which mr he had? that was mr12!
new players read nonsense about imba wukong and buy it with plat. epic fail so far.

and wukong is easy to play indeed. because he only needs health+armor+duration. so it's very good that something like this is sold in dojo! I just gave a mr9 ingis wrath and told about wukong from the dojo.

inaros is great too. this is a very chilled warframe and here dmg can switch from health to energy and also install ability strength. then dmg buff and it plays very comfortably.

but for other warframes to work at all, you need absolute top gear! as you already say.
so i find this whole discussion about 2-3 known weapons absolutely ridiculous. because without usable damage, almost all warframes would tip over like mosquitoes. and that will hit new players very hard.

there used to be a lot of complaints about eximus rework. So not even supposedly "top" weapons are enough here!

[Epsilon_Knight]

The great news is if you actually like the parts of Wukong you play, those are unlikely to change.  Maybe his 4 will even be improved.

The clone is getting a nerf, though.  

[Venus-Venera]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Epsilon_Knight:

The great news is if you actually like the parts of Wukong you play, those are unlikely to change.  Maybe his 4 will even be improved.

The clone is getting a nerf, though.  

the skill already brings nothing. 3 is meaningless. 4 lol? oh well.
then completely revise 1, 3 and 4.

but the boy doesn't play the game and has no idea about the gameplay. otherwise he wouldn't spread such nonsense in the tweet about "OP".

the good news is that people are switching to wisp/volt and then the whole group is fast and missions last much shorter than if someone is fast with wukong alone.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Instead of just nerfing him, he needs his other abilities to be better like:

• The animations of his 4th ability stance needs to be changed to where it feels fluid (like exalted blade).
• Make his 4th have a unique feature (like iron jab his old 1st ability.)
• Remove the healing from his 2 but there is no limit of how much armour you can accumulate (after all the ability is called DEFY).
• Make him have 2 clones but they are much weaker and have to rely on his 3 to survive longer.
• One use 2nd weapon and one use melee.
• Make the clones do their own thing instead of teleporting to you all the time (like venari).

imo I think wukong is boring but with this, I believe he will be better.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2022-08-09 at 1:39 PM, Doomyo89 said:

LEAVE WUKONG ALONE. 

That`s how I felt when they nerfed Ash, yh he had issues but the direction they went with it was bad now he`s even more useless in a team and has more issues than before but enough about that back to Wukong. Wukong is useful but boring imo but I don`t just want him to get nerfed I want him to get a revisit.

• Remove the healing from his 2 but to compensate remove the limit of armour you can receive from his 3 and let the clones benefit from it (his ability is called defy it should act like it)
• Add two clones, one uses secondary and one used melee, remove the switching weapon mechanic but make them weaker to where you have to maintain their survivability with his 3 instead of healing.
• Make them do their own thing instead of teleporting to you all the time.
• Change the stance of his 4th to make it smooth like exalted blade and add a unique feature in it like iron jab from his old 1st ability.

Instead of nerfing him I just want his abilities to be fun to use. and like someone said which is so true "the fact ppl use wukong so much shows this issues this game has".

[Airwolfen]

On 2022-08-05 at 10:13 PM, Tiltskillet said:

I won't belabor the points other people have already made. 

But, lol, somebody who has been around as long as you should remember when Wuk was a comically unpopular frame. 

What changed, I wonder?  :P

 

What... What hast thou summoned me into 😵

Tryin to catch up with everything in this thread is going to be nigh impossible, so to those that read this reaction, I don't exactly know the ups and ends of this thread. And Ill keep to mostly the above reaction. Just an FYI.

What changed is pretty easy, he got his revisited update in 2019.

Before that all he was known for was his literal invulnerability Defy. The only ability that actually got a nerf. His Passive, 1, 2 and 4 were all pretty much throwaway. 1 was useless, 2 was slow AF, and 4 was weaker then singing a pool noodle at a 5yo.

Since then he received 3 get out of fail jail free cards, a twin that can do all you AoE killing for you, a very easy to control yet insanely fast cloud and a melee on the actual level of using a pool noodle against a 5yo (like, one hit emotional damage). just enough damage to make it feel like you are doing something.

Maybe these have been answered for you already. but as I said. Not exactly going to read up on this topic xD

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Airwolfen:

Since then he received 3 get out of fail jail free cards, a twin that can do all you AoE killing for you

and you play mele or what?
and you want to waste time and damage because clone has the brain of an ant and reacts like a grandmother?

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

What... What hast thou summoned me into 😵

Tryin to catch up with everything in this thread is going to be nigh impossible, so to those that read this reaction, I don't exactly know the ups and ends of this thread. And Ill keep to mostly the above reaction. Just an FYI.

What changed is pretty easy, he got his revisited update in 2019.

Before that all he was known for was his literal invulnerability Defy. The only ability that actually got a nerf. His Passive, 1, 2 and 4 were all pretty much throwaway. 1 was useless, 2 was slow AF, and 4 was weaker then singing a pool noodle at a 5yo.

Since then he received 3 get out of fail jail free cards, a twin that can do all you AoE killing for you, a very easy to control yet insanely fast cloud and a melee on the actual level of using a pool noodle against a 5yo (like, one hit emotional damage). just enough damage to make it feel like you are doing something.

Maybe these have been answered for you already. but as I said. Not exactly going to read up on this topic xD

Welcome back!  Are you playing the game?  Or just catching up on the forums for masochistic reasons? :P

Wondering what happened to change Wukong's usage was rhetorical though.   It was in response to somebody who tied Wukong's popularity purely to ease of access. Which, given that he's was extremely unpopular before his rework and has always been easy to get, and some other frames are also easy to get and far less popular, was a simplification to the point of absurdity.

I'm an admirer of your posts about Warframe usage data before 2019, so I'd be really curious to hear any thoughts you have on those stats now.  The most complete data can be found here if you're interested: https://www.warframe.com/2021stats  I think @PublikDomainhas both that and 2020  compiled into a spreadsheet if that's more appealing.

[PublikDomain]

12 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I think @PublikDomainhas both that and 2020  compiled into a spreadsheet if that's more appealing.

Mine is a mess of a spreadsheet, but you can get the raw JSON data if you want to noodle around with it. Kontrollo also has a script for parsing it, and since they've already got the JSON files linked I'll just quote them:

On 2022-01-28 at 5:35 AM, Kontrollo said:

Are there any people interested in doing something with the data? I could make some scripts so it's loadable in Excel/Calc for example. Raw data are here:

• 2020: https://n9e5v4d8.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/WarframeUsageData2020.json
• 2021: https://n9e5v4d8.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/WarframeUsageData2021.json

Edit: follow-ups: script is here and addressing a problem here.

[BeardyKyle]

On 2021-08-18 at 5:00 PM, Erasculio said:

2. Cloud Walker: turns into an invunerable cloud while healing yourself. You cannot move while this ability is in effect; trying to move cancels the effect.

This just turns cloud walker into Undertow - one of the worst abilities in the game.

[EinheriarJudith]

ill just sit back and watch as DE ruins wukong like they ruined ember. nerfing based on popularity...... DE is trolling. if they dont want people using the easiest methods to play they should do something about the root cause but we know already that if its going to cause too much backlash or its too much work they wont even consider it.

what did one of them say? "id rather work on new content rather than old content".

lol so many foundation bugs. when the foundation is rotting its only a matter of time.

[Airwolfen]

14 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Welcome back!  Are you playing the game?  Or just catching up on the forums for masochistic reasons? :P

Wondering what happened to change Wukong's usage was rhetorical though.   It was in response to somebody who tied Wukong's popularity purely to ease of access. Which, given that he's was extremely unpopular before his rework and has always been easy to get, and some other frames are also easy to get and far less popular, was a simplification to the point of absurdity.

I'm an admirer of your posts about Warframe usage data before 2019, so I'd be really curious to hear any thoughts you have on those stats now.  The most complete data can be found here if you're interested: https://www.warframe.com/2021stats  I think @PublikDomainhas both that and 2020  compiled into a spreadsheet if that's more appealing.

Rarely active on the forums these days because Warframe is already one of my more visited Reddit pages and I'm active enough there. But I do still do a drive by from time to time. Play the game on and off, currently in a off period, keeps it fresh.

And I get it now and I do agree. Ease of access helps, but is far from the only point, it just helps to start spamming it earlier. because those who are going to spam Wukong, will do so. The road of acquiring him could be longer and harder but it would just delay the inevitable. His ease of play is the predominant factor and indeed, a frame that is worthless like OG Wukong could be given out for free and would still be replaced pretty quickly after leveling.

The 2019 spreadsheet was such a nice thing to make because DE gave some excellent data already in spreadsheet form. The MR spread they gave made the graphs quite striking, so that was nice. It was good to see that they kept up with giving that kind of data and even expanding it beyond just frames

Overall the 2021 mostly shows the same kind of effect the 2019 one has. Some frames are simply more popular compared to others, though multiple of the lower frames do actually have a following who can make the frame shine. But yeah, one can't really ignore the massive bar that is Wukong that even grew from 2020 to 2021. And it does show a certain unbalance that might need to be brought back just a little. And I do mean a little btw. Speed running frames have always shown higher usage over none speeding frames due to the mission types being more spammable. However the graph Pablo posted paints the picture of just how much he is out of the general speed running range and that many players do not just play Wukong for that mission type alone. (Do hope they add some team support though. Seeing a Wukong in a longer mission type squad is just a slot only half filled)