New War Theory

[Arniox]

The tenno don't actually ever need, or never needed to kill the grineer/corpus at any point in time.
otus only had us doing it because she knew that an invasion was planned after the fall of the Orokin and so had the tenno start culling the star system earlier to make it easier for the sentient army to invade.

Lotus was always evil. And was always manipulating us to fight the sentient war for them. Then, when the invasion begins, they backstab us.

Obviously there are some situations where the tenno were actually required to help out. Like with Fortuna because the people where being enslaved and were rebelling. And possibly cetus? It seems like cetus actually has a pretty good relationship with the grineer. It's a good trading hub for them. Also, we deffinately had to help destroy the infested as much as possible.

But otherwise, Lotus only ever had us cull the star system because it made the invasion easier for the sentients. At no point did we actually have to murder the billions of corpus/grineer.

[trst]

That makes absolutely no sense. Even if we assume everything Lotus has told us to be a lie we still have the Corpus openly exploiting regular people even beyond Fortuna and the Cetus v Grineer relations are not friendly. The Grineer are in a war against them to get to the Tower, take Ostrons as prisoners, and Hek wanted the Infested on the plains to try and overrun Cetus for them.

Plus we have things like Alad experimenting on Warframes and creating new strains of Infested. Nef exploiting children and wanted us to destroy a potential cure for the Infestation just to spite Alad. Then the Grineer wanting to kill their own for being pacifists and the Queens who wanted to literally steal our bodies.

Even without the Lotus telling us anything just from the actions we observe and the motives these characters openly tell us we're more than justified in how many we've killed.

 

And all of that is even ignoring that the Lotus could have just killed us at any point. Plus The Second Dream begins with Lotus telling us to stop Hunhow and the Stalker from destroying the Lua reservoir which is where our bodies were hidden. And us culling the system for the invasion means nothing as the War between the Grineer and Corpus continues without us anyways and neither of them care about the Sentient invasion. We're the only real threat to the Sentients, not the Grineer or Corpus.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

3 minutes ago, trst said:

We're the only real threat to the Sentients, not the Grineer or Corpus.

Tell that to clem or kahl. 

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

1 hour ago, Arniox said:

The tenno don't actually ever need, or never needed to kill the grineer/corpus at any point in time.
otus only had us doing it because she knew that an invasion was planned after the fall of the Orokin and so had the tenno start culling the star system earlier to make it easier for the sentient army to invade.

Lotus was always evil. And was always manipulating us to fight the sentient war for them. Then, when the invasion begins, they backstab us.

Obviously there are some situations where the tenno were actually required to help out. Like with Fortuna because the people where being enslaved and were rebelling. And possibly cetus? It seems like cetus actually has a pretty good relationship with the grineer. It's a good trading hub for them. Also, we deffinately had to help destroy the infested as much as possible.

But otherwise, Lotus only ever had us cull the star system because it made the invasion easier for the sentients. At no point did we actually have to murder the billions of corpus/grineer.

Welll…. We did the right thing and the wrong thing at the same time.

Some grineer are good but the majority are bad. 

Some corpus are good but the majority is bad.

Corpus enslaving people, breaking a planet, making money.

Grineer just trying to destroy everything.

however they ALL hate the sentients.

 

As you saw in the trailer, it wasn’t a Tenno who nearly helped destroy giant sentient tower, it was kahl, your standard lancer. 
In orphix missions you see the corpus going weapons free trying to kill the sentients…

Infested…. They just want to destroy literally everything so their not relevant, but still we all hate them as well.

While amour actions are justified, it would be more of a threat to the sentients if the corpus, Tenno, and grineer fought at once, and as shown with invasions and certain bounties, they DO unite when fighting a common enemy.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

1 hour ago, Arniox said:

The tenno don't actually ever need, or never needed to kill the grineer/corpus at any point in time.

The massacre? Probably not. When we helped the ostrons and Solaris United? Definitely. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Tell that to clem or kahl. 

Clem hasn't fought sentients yet so can't talk about his performance, Kahl is definitely stronger than the average Grineer but can only go so far before dying and not all Grineer are like him so they would die faster than him in the end.

Corpus and Grineer do need our help to do anything major at the end of the day

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Clem hasn't fought sentients yet

Go to steel path Lua and spawn a clem clone. It’s that easy. He fights quite ok. Around the same level as kahl.

 

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Kahl is definitely stronger than the average Grineer

No he’s just a bit smarter and brave… and driven by rage because brothers dead.

 

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Corpus and Grineer do need our help to do anything major at the end of the day

Yep, but by themselves the sentients have the capability to trash the Tenno, so if all 3 forces combine (like they have done in numerous occasions) they can easily trash the sentients…. But there is a possibility that like the plague star, the grineer or corpus would let the sentients kill the Tenno and then it’s easier for them to take over the universe…. huh… ok possibility time.

1. All 3 forces combine and destroy the sentients then try to kill the sentients, winning.

2. 1 (or 2) of the forces will not help because after the war is finished the Tenno or other faction will be weakened giving them a good opportunity to take over. 
3. Everyone tries to kill each other… see any faction, shoot on sight. 
4. Tenno does all the work and then grineer or corpus (or both, if they are smart) come to finish off the remaining Tenno.

there are many possibilities but these are the ones I’d find the most likely. 

[CrimsonXX]

Wow people really out here this desperate to villainize a victim multiple times over. Natah was brainwashed by the Orokin (whom there is no doubt about them being complete scum that saw themselves as the only valid life-forms in the galaxy) to fight against her own kin, also using her seeming desire for a family to bond her to the Tenno. If anything the Sentients plan via Natah did the Tenno a favor via giving them the spark for rebellion/revolution against their oppressors. After being freed from that brainwashing, Natah turned around and is now being manipulated by either Erra or Ballas to the point of forcing her into whatever machine (its purpose as far as I'm aware hasn't been explained). Even after being freed of the brainwashing she still showed hesitance to go after the Tenno. She stands as a mirror/parallel to the Tenno from the Sentient side and serves as a victim, hell even the posing used in the preview in the Relay has her put in a clear victim light. There's little to nothing that suggests she's an evil puppeteer. If anything Teshin has more "villainous" acts and elements in his character, yet gets little to none of that light put towards him vs. Natah.

Also Cetus having a "good relationship" with the Grineer, like during Plague Star when the Tenno are forced to step in due to the Grineer intentionally refusing to help? Like if they had that the bounties for Plains wouldn't include taking on Grineer forces, but they do so no there is no "good relationship" there.

The only part where I'll lightly agree is on the idea that the Tenno never needed to kill, though given how each faction handles things its not exactly hard to overlook that. Though I'd flip over the moon to have an option of pacification instead of killing, however this is an ARPG where action like killing is a given. I would love to see after TNW Natah rejoining (or if one thinks it over truly joining them as herself) the Tenno and leading into a potential future route involving setting up some form of diplomatic ties with any Sentients likely in Tau that evolved away from seeking war. Thus setting up a basis for if we go there a Sentient themed open world. It'd also go towards the "Sentient frame" as the two groups would be sharing tech

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

Welpen we’re just gonna have to wait and see who’s right.

BUT, Whether or not lotus is evil, erra and ballas have something going on…. 

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, Arniox said:

The tenno don't actually ever need, or never needed to kill the grineer/corpus at any point in time.
otus only had us doing it because she knew that an invasion was planned after the fall of the Orokin and so had the tenno start culling the star system earlier to make it easier for the sentient army to invade.

Lotus was always evil. And was always manipulating us to fight the sentient war for them. Then, when the invasion begins, they backstab us.

OK, but... why?

The Orokin were defeated. The Grineer were fragmented and leaderless, the Corpus had lost their great commander (and given the suspicious lack of references to Corposium, possibly their capital city). The system was in anarchy. We know from the Glass Fish that there were Sentients raring to go (the Eidolon explicitly attacks after the Tenno betrayal), and that nothing could do anything to stop them. Hell, she still had the Tenno under her command. Why wouldn't she sic them on the rest of the system immediately?

Why would the Lotus wait for around a thousand years and allow the Corpus and Grineer to rebuild their forces, and then stop the resurrection of Hunhow if she was 'always evil'?

Why would she send messages saying she got mind controlled by the Orokin, or encode hidden messages telling us that she's dying? Why would she resist Erra's control, why would she abstain from destroying Umbra (a powerful Sentient-killer, even by Warframe standards) a second time? Plus, we only learn about this whole thing because her helmet sends us a message in her voice, as if she's directing us to Umbra. Why would Lotus direct us to save an anti-sentient weapon?

4 hours ago, Arniox said:

Obviously there are some situations where the tenno were actually required to help out. Like with Fortuna because the people where being enslaved and were rebelling. And possibly cetus? It seems like cetus actually has a pretty good relationship with the grineer. It's a good trading hub for them. Also, we deffinately had to help destroy the infested as much as possible.

If she was 'always evil', what motivation would she have to do that? Not to mention that Fortuna's situation occured after she left, and the Tenno do so with no promise of any sort of payment until after the Vox Solaris quest... why would an evil character raise their army of faceless killing machines to offer charity?

Also, Cetus is well and truly besieged. Konzu talks frequently about how badly the Grineer mistreat them, and Vey Hek in Plague Star talks about hunting Ostrons for sport. Plus we only see Corpus, not Grineer inside Cetus's walls.

[GrayArchon]

On 2021-10-27 at 3:49 PM, Arniox said:

The tenno don't actually ever need, or never needed to kill the grineer/corpus at any point in time.
otus only had us doing it because she knew that an invasion was planned after the fall of the Orokin and so had the tenno start culling the star system earlier to make it easier for the sentient army to invade.

Lotus was always evil. And was always manipulating us to fight the sentient war for them.

This doesn't make any sense. If she knew the Sentients were going to come back, then why would she awaken the Tenno in the first place? She should have let them remain in cryosleep and had the Sentients slaughter them in their tombs. That's exactly what the Grineer were doing (and for the same reasons) when she awakened them. If the goal was to keep the System pacified until the Sentients arrived, then why put the Tenno to sleep in the first place? She should have had the Tenno rule over the System for the entire interregnum, prevent any faction from amassing any power, and then put them to sleep right before the Sentients arrived instead of just after the Collapse.

All evidence points to the Lotus being deceived and betrayed. She wanted to protect the Tenno and preserve the balance of the Origin System. When the balance was threatened and the Grineer were poised to wipe out the Tenno and rise to control the entire System, she woke the Tenno up so that they could restore it (Vor's Prize). When the truth about her parentage came out, she admitted to it rather than hide it (Natah quest). When her own father awoke, she fought him to prevent the Sentients from wiping out the Tenno again (The Second Dream). At every turn she has encouraged the Tenno to grow and make their place in the universe. Only after Ballas physically showed up and overrode her programming (Apostasy Prologue) was her behaviour altered, and since then she has been in the clutches of the Sentients and/or Ballas.

On 2021-10-27 at 3:49 PM, Arniox said:

Obviously there are some situations where the tenno were actually required to help out. Like with Fortuna because the people where being enslaved and were rebelling.

If you think Fortuna is a bad situation, then you'd wholeheartedly support the Tenno's exploits against the Grineer. The Grineer wipe out the colonies they encounter or enslave them.  At least the Solaris are semi-independent and integrated with Nef Anyo's economy. The Grineer have no such relationships with the colonies. If a colonist gives them a weird look, they bombard the entire settlement into dust. This has been confirmed in The Awakening, Vor's Prize, Cephalon Cordylon, the Kuva Fortress Assault mission, and many other places.

On 2021-10-27 at 3:49 PM, Arniox said:

And possibly cetus? It seems like cetus actually has a pretty good relationship with the grineer. It's a good trading hub for them.

Cetus is under constant attack by the Grineer. The only reason it's still standing is because of the Unum's protection. The Grineer do not trade at Cetus, nor are they known to trade with the Ostrons in other locations. The Corpus and Solaris can be seen in the Cetus marketplace, but the Grineer are at war with the Ostrons.

On 2021-10-27 at 5:23 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Yep, but by themselves the sentients have the capability to trash the Tenno, so if all 3 forces combine (like they have done in numerous occasions) they can easily trash the sentients….

Have you forgotten… the Old War? The Tenno, alongside Grineer and Dax, with better-than-Corpus weaponry, still fought for a long time against the Sentients, and that was with the backing of a unified Orokin Empire with technology beyond what we can fathom. Although the Tenno won the war, the Sentients still struck major blows, as we see in the What Remains? webcomic, the Mag Prime Codex entry, and the Erra cinematic.

All the power in the Origin System today – Tenno, Grineer, Corpus, and colonists combined – are a shadow of the fallen Orokin Empire. If the Sentients struck again with the level of force they had back during the Old War, humanity would be crushed.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

40 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Have you forgotten… the Old War

OH GOD! I DID!

 

41 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

If the Sentients struck again with the level of force they had back during the Old War, humanity would be crushed.

But the Tenno are robots the corpus are robots and cyborgs the grineer are the closest to human and the ostrons are kinda human not full human so how is it humanity?

 

jk jk 

I get what you mean. 

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

The corpus and grinder are not purely evil or good.  They are groups fighting for power not different from real life history.

The new war cinematics seem to imply some things. Lotuses memories are scattered and ballas/era seem to be manipulating her. Ballases body language is off. Lotus tells era she knows he died. So the era we see may be a fake.  The glowing red void eye of ballas, eras red eyes and his sinister mind control affect in the new war demo, him saying don't be afraid, in the flashback we had the same eyes as lotus controlled us, and finally the cinematics imply lotus has the ability to control us.

In the demo and from the lore we know lotus gave the corpus amalgam tech well disguised. And the demo has the machines turning on the corpus.  It screams skynet.

The grinder are getting slaughtered on Cetus in the demo and we even have teshin fighting.

Tge whole point of new war is the sentients invading to wipe us all out. We know that by traveling in the void they become infertile. But we are all but told the last orokin tower on Cetus has the kuva to heal them.

This sets up a scenario Cetus will be the main target and if they breach the last kuva vault we are all doomed.

All forces will need to work together to stop them.  But the trap moment is that lotus can control us. My theory is she is drawing us into Cetus and the vault because she'll make us break it open with our void powers.  Then we'll have to run for our lives as the sentients heal and start slaughtering everyone.  Which will lead to duviri paradox.

Which will hopefully be the power up/overhaul we need to make operates better and stop lotus. By potentially DBZ fusing with our paradoxical selves we could be a new being that lotus can't control.

[CrimsonXX]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

All forces will need to work together to stop them.  But the trap moment is that lotus can control us. My theory is she is drawing us into Cetus and the vault because she'll make us break it open with our void powers.  Then we'll have to run for our lives as the sentients heal and start slaughtering everyone.  Which will lead to duviri paradox.

Which will hopefully be the power up/overhaul we need to make operates better and stop lotus. By potentially DBZ fusing with our paradoxical selves we could be a new being that lotus can't control.

She hasn't shown a will or even the ability to currently control the Tenno and hasn't been at all suggested to be playing anything behind the scenes, she's been very much presented both in the story itself as well as in promo material to be victim. She also has no reason to go on a slaughtering spree and would likely be selective in regards to healing, considering y'know her own Sentient family has now manipulated/used her. She's a victim twice over; a parallel/mirror of the Tenno which in their case she broke them free from the Orokin so now its time for the Tenno to break her free from Ballas/Erra; and can easily serve as a basis for future Sentient based ally-things (a Sentient open world in Tau whenever we get there; the Sentient based frame). I say again: people really out here trying to villainize a victim

As for Duviri, I'd say its far more likely to do with The Man in the Wall and confronting them post-TNW ending the first major arc. I'd also go with it having more to do with something in the vein of "The War Within" in learning to wield/control the Void in new ways. If it actually were to involve older versions of our Operators, then I'd wager it'll be a matter of a multiverse over singular timeline that "paradoxical" implies.

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

Which will hopefully be the power up/overhaul we need to make operates better and stop lotus. By potentially DBZ fusing with our paradoxical selves we could be a new being that lotus can't control.

So, are we just ignoring the Grustrag Three, where the Lotus gives the Tenno a direct order to abandon the mission and you are perfectly free to just. Kill them. The Lotus will even sometimes say "Next time, please follow my orders". If we were under her direct control, we wouldn't have been able to do that in the first place, let alone require her to say 'please'.

We do it again in the War Within, as well, the Lotus recommends for the Tenno to not enter the Kuva Fortress, on account of there being transference static i.e. she can't communicate, and the Tenno might get either kicked out of or locked into their transference, and it is therefore extremely dangerous. The Tenno disagrees with her, and goes in anyway. Later in the quest, the Tenno (rightfully, I'll admit) gives her lip about keeping secrets too.

Not exactly the actions of a slave bound to the Lotus's will, is it?

[Mr.NoodleHair]

I think what's going on is the exact opposite. I honestly think Lotus is playing the Sentients and manipulating them from behind the scenes. Or maybe I'm giving the Lotus too much credit, she could also just be mind controlled.

Still, it would sort of make sense. She could have manipulated the events in Chimera Prologue to give us Paracesis. And maybe she realizes TNW is the only chance at combining Corpus, Grineer, and Tenno forces to finally destroy the Sentient threat.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

So, are we just ignoring the Grustrag Three, where the Lotus gives the Tenno a direct order to abandon the mission and you are perfectly free to just. Kill them. The Lotus will even sometimes say "Next time, please follow my orders". If we were under her direct control, we wouldn't have been able to do that in the first place, let alone require her to say 'please'.

We do it again in the War Within, as well, the Lotus recommends for the Tenno to not enter the Kuva Fortress, on account of there being transference static i.e. she can't communicate, and the Tenno might get either kicked out of or locked into their transference, and it is therefore extremely dangerous. The Tenno disagrees with her, and goes in anyway. Later in the quest, the Tenno (rightfully, I'll admit) gives her lip about keeping secrets too.

Not exactly the actions of a slave bound to the Lotus's will, is it?

Not saying she has constant control on us.  Rather she can flip some sort of switch and control us.  We see her control the tenno to kill era in the past. They hint at her calling her children home. There's something up.  And now that shes back to being a sentient she can probably use that weird red void eye mind control ability whenever she wants.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

4 hours ago, CrimsonXX said:

She hasn't shown a will or even the ability to currently control the Tenno and hasn't been at all suggested to be playing anything behind the scenes, she's been very much presented both in the story itself as well as in promo material to be victim. She also has no reason to go on a slaughtering spree and would likely be selective in regards to healing, considering y'know her own Sentient family has now manipulated/used her. She's a victim twice over; a parallel/mirror of the Tenno which in their case she broke them free from the Orokin so now its time for the Tenno to break her free from Ballas/Erra; and can easily serve as a basis for future Sentient based ally-things (a Sentient open world in Tau whenever we get there; the Sentient based frame). I say again: people really out here trying to villainize a victim

As for Duviri, I'd say its far more likely to do with The Man in the Wall and confronting them post-TNW ending the first major arc. I'd also go with it having more to do with something in the vein of "The War Within" in learning to wield/control the Void in new ways. If it actually were to involve older versions of our Operators, then I'd wager it'll be a matter of a multiverse over singular timeline that "paradoxical" implies.

New war cinematics she is shown in the past controlling us. The sentients goal is to destroy everything in the sol system.

In the new war cinematics something is off. With ballas and era. I think ballas at this point is wally

Lotus was sent to kill us in our sleep and she would have had the orokin not caught her and reprogrammed her.  She's not a victim. If we get the chance to kill her I will.

 

[CrimsonXX]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

New war cinematics she is shown in the past controlling us. The sentients goal is to destroy everything in the sol system.

In the new war cinematics something is off. With ballas and era. I think ballas at this point is wally

I'd actually say the Old War scene was a matter of Tenno voluntarily mind-linking or something of the sort with her, considering at the time she'd have been under the brainwashing of the Orokin and that'd have been her "unit" (similar to in the trailer for Death Stranding how Cliff's skeletal soldiers are tied to him). I'd say that there's a multitude within the Sentients goals, namely a desire to protect planets from being mined and drained like with the Orokin; and now for at least a faction revenge for the Old War. Sentients have had centuries upon centuries (at least a millennia) to evolve in Tau, I'd wager if DE decides to go the truly high-mind scifi route that there's a faction of them that have grown beyond more aggressive genocidal aspects. Natah uniquely stands in the middle of Tenno and Sentients that can easily serve as a bridge (going towards the existence of a Sentient frame), as well as already having shown resistance/hesitance to engage directly against the Tenno. On top of that layers of her being a victim, including the preview and her serving as a parallel/mirror to the Tenno from the Sentient side of things = her not being some evil mastermind.

I'm fully willing to believe the The Man in the Wall or some other party is having a hand in Ballas and Erra if one of them isn't the puppetmaster or a puppetmaster turned puppet by MitW. Especially since if the reveal of that is put at the end of TNW it'd be an excellent lead-in to what I see as the next major arc of Tenno vs. MitW. However that being linked to Natah as some grand orchestrator doesn't fit and if anything would come across as left-field shock-value thing that only leads to repeating the cycle of violence/war.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

If in the past the tenno where willingly linked as she had us kill era. Then why do we seem utterly horrified after the flashback.  I think that now that lotus is back to being a sentient she has a Trump card to play on us.

Something is definitely up with ballas the void, wally, our doppleganger, and maybe other void beings will play a role especially with duviri.

I don't think the full duviri is ready. But a teaser story driven bunch of instances quests could be used similar to a new war.

Being able to chose lotuses fate if my theory is at all right may be interesting.

[Kaotyke]

18 hours ago, CrimsonXX said:

I would love to see after TNW Natah rejoining (or if one thinks it over truly joining them as herself) the Tenno and leading into a potential future route involving setting up some form of diplomatic ties with any Sentients likely in Tau that evolved away from seeking war.

That seems to be the logical conclusion, specially when Natah notes that, even if the relationship between the Tenno and Lotus was fake on Lotus' side because of the Orokin, there's the experiences during that time that were real.

The Orokin used the Tenno to kill the Sentients and enforce their own agenda. The Orokin used Natah.

The Sentients are now using Natah to kill the Tenno and enforce their own agenda. Ballas is trying to use the Tenno (With the reveal that Ballas and Erra are working togheter, Ballas' dialog in the Chimera Prologue about Natah using him and giving the Tenno the Paracesis becomes very, VERY sketchy).

But if you check, people have wanted to kill Lotus since it was discovered she was a Sentient, back in 2015. Because being of a different race makes you automatically worth being put to death. I wonder who else had that philosophy...

Oh right!

Spoiler

The Grineer.

 

[CrimsonXX]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

If in the past the tenno where willingly linked as she had us kill era. Then why do we seem utterly horrified after the flashback.  I think that now that lotus is back to being a sentient she has a Trump card to play on us.

Something is definitely up with ballas the void, wally, our doppleganger, and maybe other void beings will play a role especially with duviri.

I don't think the full duviri is ready. But a teaser story driven bunch of instances quests could be used similar to a new war.

Being able to chose lotuses fate if my theory is at all right may be interesting.

Because the Tenno would have no memory of doing that and that in itself is a jarring thing to be hit with. The Tenno in that scene weren't shown to be resisting at all; going against Orokin wishes/orders instead being right in line with what they'd want in killing a mid-tier Sentient (Erra); were arranged like what one would imagine a "Tenno Unit" to look like; and the trope of mind-linking with glowing eyes. Like maybe if there'd been any amount of it shown in present day, it'd be more of a potential thing in my mind.

I don't think Duviri is even remotely near ready, however I do think the writers have some basic idea of where they're going with the story. I think it'll be a 3 or 4 part arc just like the current one with TSD, TWW, The Sacrifice, and TNW being the finale.

I don't know if there will be a choice or not, however I definitely have my own preferences for how things proceed.

[TARINunit9]

20 hours ago, Arniox said:

The tenno don't actually ever need, or never needed to kill the grineer/corpus at any point in time.
otus only had us doing it because she knew that an invasion was planned after the fall of the Orokin and so had the tenno start culling the star system earlier to make it easier for the sentient army to invade.

No

If that's what Natah wanted, she would have killed us during the Fall of the Orokin. You know, like she was supposed to before she became the Lotus

[CrimsonXX]

7 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

That seems to be the logical conclusion, specially when Natah notes that, even if the relationship between the Tenno and Lotus was fake on Lotus' side because of the Orokin, there's the experiences during that time that were real.

The Orokin used the Tenno to kill the Sentients and enforce their own agenda. The Orokin used Natah.

The Sentients are now using Natah to kill the Tenno and enforce their own agenda. Ballas is trying to use the Tenno (With the reveal that Ballas and Erra are working togheter, Ballas' dialog in the Chimera Prologue about Natah using him and giving the Tenno the Paracesis becomes very, VERY sketchy).

But if you check, people have wanted to kill Lotus since it was discovered she was a Sentient, back in 2015. Because being of a different race makes you automatically worth being put to death. I wonder who else had that philosophy...

Oh right!

  Reveal hidden contents

The Grineer.

 

On the using Natah part, currently the Sentient hierarchy of sorts (or Ballas using Erra as a puppet) is also using her, which reflects the Orokin that used the Tenno. Adding to the parallelism going on.

Well there's also just edgelords that have particular sexist issues as well as the complete garbage that is "killing a parental figure in order to mark moving into adulthood", considering as I've mentioned before I'm a 30+ year old adult that never had to kill either of my parents to earn being an adult. I hope that DE writes their own story how they see it like with the reveal of what the Tenno are. One rather loud group wanting it to be that the Tenno were literally deformed people inside suits cause edgelords vs. what I consider the more high-minded scifi concept of energy beings. DE choosing to go with an interesting take on the energy being idea in that its partially the case but having the body of frames as a deformed body too. For me I'd take having Natah return to the Tenno as Natah instead of Lotus and have her progress into figuring out exactly who that is for herself, while being an equal partner to the Tenno instead of as a guardian for them.

[Arniox]

12 hours ago, CrimsonXX said:

-snippy snip-

I actually really like this theory over my own.

After reading everyone's theories, I have come to the conclusion that I forgot about so much of the lore. I really need to replay through all the quests again to figure out what's what.

16 hours ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

-snip the clip-

Yeah Erra is giving me VERY much skynet vibes. To the point where I feel like with what was shown in the trailer, and in Chimera Prologue; I think Erra is actually the one in charge. Or at least, second in charge under Mother (whom we only hear and briefly saw in that trailer ages and ages ago showing the Tau System).

I think Erra has been manipulating EVERYONE. Including, now, The Lotus. I think he's basically gas lighting the f*** out of her. And I belive, from what we saw in the New War trailer; Erra is now going around mind controlling everyone on Cetus. The "Don't be afraid" is giving my gaslight/mind control vibes.