It’s time to undo the stance changes.

[(PSN)palebluelight]

The stance changes from way back ruined a couple weapon archetypes. The idea that speed is bad and animations need to get more attention is asinine. This needed to be handled by tuning partical fx and visuals that mask them not weapon speed. A fine example of this failure is the speed nerf unequally affected very slow weapons. You HAVE to acknowledge that speed is dps and weapons like the recently released karyst prime is balanced too slow for the berserker nerf. But melee as a whole is in a bad place by the stance changes and the speed nerfs. Weapons that have to use tempo royal and cleaving whirlwind feel terrible but also look honestly stupid. Especially cleaving whirlwind it feels like the individual combos have speed debuffs on them and they have negative movement meaning my character steps back or is retreating through the light attack combos. The heavy blade archetype is one of the oldest and includes some amazing weapons but these stance changes completely gutted them. They’re only use seems to be heavy attack builds with is the most boring way to play the game. None of the stance changes for any of two handed nikana or  heavy blades benefitted anyone but pleasing DE visually. They weren’t unbalanced damage wise with the old order of combos and with the latter nerfs to condition overload and blood rush they’re use case was narrowed too far. All of the stance changes that negatively affected these weapon types need to be reverted ASAP. There’s no reason to use any of these weapons in their current state. These changes were straight petty, selfish, and not balance or game health minded this isn’t very common for DE it still needs to be made right. 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)palebluelight said:

There’s no reason to use any of these weapons in their current state. These changes were straight petty, selfish, and not balance or game health minded this isn’t very common for DE it still needs to be made right. 

Before change there were random button mashing to execute more complex combos.

Now you have 4 basic one.

 

I like current one. Sure, it needs a lot of work but it's good start imho.

[Dante]

I didn't notice the melee attack speed changes (if there were any). Maybe it's because i never use Berserker.

The movement speed changes in melee combos though…
Tempo royale's August mesto and Final Harbinger's Dark Light were the most stylish and effective stances in my eyes before the rework. Now, both of these combos grant close to no movement speed, and both look weird and perform worse without it. Especially Dark Light, look how they massacred my boy…

I think i've tried out all the melee stances after the rework in a simulacrum, and i think every weapon stance performed pretty much on the same level. Except the Wise Razor, which has a single good looking attack, and now it's a last attack of a mediocre combo. Devs did a great job balancing the stances, but this killed some of the most fun combos this game had. Remember the ~14 strikes fist combo? It didn't really look that good imo, but it was definitely a fun move to land.

As for the need for the animations to get more attention, i believe it still didn't get enough attention after the rework. Quite a lot of attacks suddenly end in a pose, for me this just screams "unfinished". The prime examples are: the whole Wise Razor stance: comboA, comboB, Tempo Royale's block attack

[SpringRocker]

On 2021-11-09 at 11:03 AM, quxier said:

Before change there were random button mashing to execute more complex combos.

Not really, quite the opposite.

Just needed to pay attention to what you were doing. They were great and flowed very well, one of the best examples was Tempo Royal. Switching it up between slams, crowd slices, and dash attacks. It was a great stance that allowed you to switch up attacks depending on where the enemies were.

Now, after the changes, it's just a big choppy button mashing mess.

[quxier]

2 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Not really, quite the opposite. Just needed to pay attention to what you were doing.

No. Except combos where you could just press E and move it was random key (thing) combination. I couldn't remember 20. I don't remember when I have to wait or press some key.

Now you have 4 options (+ slide, slams):

- standing

- forward

- block

- block+forward

 

If you want to go forward while attacking do a forward-combo.

If you want slash something near you do standing-combo.

Block+forward-combo should (imho) move you some distance and attack. Combo from Tonfa, Sovereign Outcast is weird one. It slashes things in front of you then move forward.

Block-combo is wild card - it shouldn't move you forward like standing-combo & block+forward-combo do but it might do some other movements. For example Bullet dance move you from one side to other side.

Of course there are many bugs:

- standing and forward combos are swapped (e.g. Bullet dance: while moving frame will slash around you, while standing it shoots in front of you)

- combos are same looking (maybe different animation but they are doing similar things) - so you are using only part of combos. For example Ghoulsaw Butcher's stance Block attack faster & more enemies than standing combo.

- some stances lacking combos

 

If they solve those 3 issues you will be sure that you can pick any weapon and know what button to press.

 

[Dragazer]

On 2021-11-09 at 2:14 PM, Dante said:

I didn't notice the melee attack speed changes (if there were any). Maybe it's because i never use Berserker.

Man who would've guessed, you didn't notice any atk speed nerfs because you never used the mod that was nerfed to begin with. 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

On 2021-11-09 at 1:03 PM, quxier said:

Before change there were random button mashing to execute more complex combos.

Now you have 4 basic one.

 

I like current one. Sure, it needs a lot of work but it's good start imho.

It's true, simplifying what was otherwise a mess of inputs did have a positive impact on melee. The combos they chose to go with however...

We've been stuck with some of the most awkward, poorly thought out combo chains than lack oomph, speed, practicality & effectiveness. It doesn't help that the attack speed nerfs show how impractical the overly flamboyant movements truly are. Wise Razor is what many consider to be objectively the greatest travesty of a stance to ever exist in this game. We've been waiting for Melee 3.0 to reach its conclusion for what seems like an eternity at this point. Perhaps I should also mention the long overdue feature of gun & blade duel wielding that has frequently been advertised through Excalibur with a Skana & Lato in each hand. Where exactly is that after all these years?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

It's true, simplifying what was otherwise a mess of inputs did have a positive impact on melee. The combos they chose to go with however...

We've been stuck with some of the most awkward, poorly thought out combo chains than lack oomph, speed, practicality & effectiveness. It doesn't help that the attack speed nerfs show how impractical the overly flamboyant movements truly are. Wise Razor is what many consider to be objectively the greatest travesty of a stance to ever exist in this game. We've been waiting for Melee 3.0 to reach its conclusion for what seems like an eternity at this point. Perhaps I should also mention the long overdue feature of gun & blade duel wielding that has frequently been advertised through Excalibur with a Skana & Lato in each hand. Where exactly is that after all these years?

Melee has MANY problems, not only combos. I could write pages about them but no one from DE would read it (no swearing words :D ) looking how they couldn't even change Exodia Contagion to require any jump (Vitrica does it).

If someone is interested I may write about weapons in general and few one that I use. Not sure here... as it would be considered spam? Yeah... just so you know.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

I'm having a deja vu here, I feel like I've been on this post before and commented something, yet I see I haven't, the heck?

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-11-09 at 6:05 PM, (PSN)palebluelight said:

None of the stance changes for any of two handed nikana or  heavy blades benefitted anyone but pleasing DE visually. They weren’t unbalanced damage wise with the old order of combos and with the latter nerfs to condition overload and blood rush they’re use case was narrowed too far. All of the stance changes that negatively affected these weapon types need to be reverted ASAP. There’s no reason to use any of these weapons in their current state. These changes were straight petty, selfish, and not balance or game health minded this isn’t very common for DE it still needs to be made right. 

On 2021-11-09 at 6:05 PM, (PSN)palebluelight said:

Weapons that have to use tempo royal and cleaving whirlwind feel terrible but also look honestly stupid. Especially cleaving whirlwind it feels like the individual combos have speed debuffs on them and they have negative movement meaning my character steps back or is retreating through the light attack combos.

Oh I completely agree with you on this. When I've heard it on one of the DevStreams that high attack speed doesn't let players (DE) enjoy their hard work of making animations I was like "the fk ur talking about?" Animations are pretty but you have a HORDE shooter game with a very fast gameplay. I have no time to look at your gorgeous animations that take over control of my legs while performing combos that I find myself behind the enemy I'm trying to hit or falling off the bridge by jumping back while firing a gunblade. 

Imo these things should be done to make melee a better thing:

1. No directional buttons for combos, just change FORWARD to SIT (slide/duck button), So that 4 combos be like: 
combo 1 - spam E
combo 2 - spam E while holdind [AIM]
combo 3 - spam E while holding [SIT]
combo 4 - spam E while holding [AIM]+[SIT]

2. Combos SHOULD NOT CONTROL YOUR LEGS except for the gap-closing moves - and very important for those who don't allign melee attacks to camera - gap closers should work where body is turned at the moment. Not everyone likes the camera lock for melees. Especialy if you are a console/gamepad player

3. Combos should be more organized and similar to all the weapons, at least 1 and 2 should be the same:
combo 1 - only forward attacks (I want to hit the enemies only in front of me)
combo 2 - only 360 attacks (I want to hit all the enemies around me constantly)
combo 3 - only gap closers (I want to jump into the enemy withing 1-2-3 moves and when i'm close enough - use other combos)
combo 4 - can be anything special and cool but meaningful, not just some random fancy crap (I need damage/cc or smth useful, not EMOTEs)

4. HEAVY ATTACKS could have some cool animations  (and maybe some invincible frames if it stunlocks you) while WIND UP and as well be mostly reworked taking Glaives as a perfect example. Some powerful AOE attacks or Frontal beam-like attacks, may be a single wave like Excalibur's Exalted Blade. And use Glaives HOLD E machanic - it allows using heavy attack from aim-gliding. It could be like that with any weapon, for example - hold E to wind up a heavy swing and then press [HEAVY ATTACK/SECONDARY FIRE] button for some AOE strike or a frontal wave. Glaves are very good at heavy attacks and mid air normal hits (but their combos suck big time). 

5. SLAM attack should not be a camera thing, it conflicts badly with mid-air combo as soon as you tilt your camera down a little. E+[SIT] could be a good way to activate the SLAM attack, if you keep holding E till you touch the ground - HEAVY SLAM (optionally: E=Slam, Hold E=Heavy slam but holding aim-glide locks you into mid-air combo until you stop gliding to perform a slam) Slam radius should be affected by Reach mods (imo as well as glaive's explosion instead of a separate Volatile mod). 

6. Combo Counter - Combo decay from Naramom should be possible to Unbind as well as Zenurik's Heavy Attack Efficiency (and imo boosted to 80-90% so that mods affect the remaining 10-20% making it even less). More school passives should be unbindable but those two are the main and would work amazing together for mixed combo+heavy builds.

7. Air combos could also be improved, because most of them are looking weird. I personally like Glaives 360 attacks only. For example Sparring weapons could perform spinning kicks mid air, dual swords could do Leonardo ninja turtle spin, etc. And please remove that thing HOLD BACK to perform air combos while MOVING FORWARD - who the hell decided this was a good idea? And I'll mention one more time about the conflict between slam attack and air combo (from point 5).

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

2. Combos SHOULD NOT CONTROLL YOUR LEGS

That right there is the single biggest problem I have with melee in its current form. With one exception, this issue is so grating that nothing else matters in comparison.

Your point about it being a horde shooter is quite valid. If this were Dark Souls, where carefully timing your swings against one or two single enemies and letting your stamina regenerate were a thing, then yes, stunlocking the player with their own weapons might be a valid choice.

If there was an enormous disparity between the damage of large greatswords and little daggers, rapiers and shortswords then yes, locking the player into their swing is a valid and reasonable balancing mechanic. Slow swings, locked animations and high crit or damage, versus fast swings, free movement and low crit or damage. But that's not the case here.

As it is, I only consider 2 types of weapons to be viable - polearms with shimmering blight or bleeding willow, or longswords with no stance. They let me move freely in all directions while attacking. I think unstanced fans and rapiers are also OK, but their swing pattern is too narrow for my liking when compared to the others. Every single other weapon is complete trash to me simply because it stunlocks or ragdolls me when I try to use it.

So that means 90% of all melee weapons are immediate trash-tier simply because they can't be used fluidly. Great design, DE. Really great.

Oh, and that one exception is that polearms completely break at a high enough attack speed. A bug that's been reported for 2 years and completely ignored. "Allied" Wisps are therefore the single most powerful area denial unit in the entire game.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

8 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

As it is, I only consider 2 types of weapons to be viable - polearms with shimmering blight or bleeding willow, or longswords with no stance. They let me move freely in all directions while attacking.

WORD

these 2 are the only good ones just because they have only 2 combos: [E] and [E+AIM+Forward]
E - doesn't (almost) affect your legs and keeps spamming the same moves when you need to walk forward, there are 2 hits i think and they are fine. It is viable because DE didn't touch these 2 stances :D

[Scar.brother.help.me]

9 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Oh, and that one exception is that polearms completely break at a high enough attack speed. A bug that's been reported for 2 years and completely ignored. "Allied" Wisps are therefore the single most powerful area denial unit in the entire game.

i don't quite understand here.. I am a Wisp main and i'd like to know what you mean.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

12 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

If this were Dark Souls, where carefully timing your swings against one or two single enemies and letting your stamina regenerate were a thing, then yes, stunlocking the player with their own weapons might be a valid choice.

also true, in a slow game where you need to be careful with your moves and where you have a very high rate of balance it means a lot, but Warframe is pretty much the opposite thing. Melee must be strong and easy to deal with crowds of enemies, easy to use and move quickly. There is one big disadvantage vs firearms - you need to be close. This disasdvantage is enough already.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-11-09 at 8:03 PM, quxier said:

Before change there were random button mashing to execute more complex combos.

Now you have 4 basic one.

 

I like current one. Sure, it needs a lot of work but it's good start imho.

You are right about button combinations but what he means is that the moves themselves bacame much worse and unplayable for some weapons. Two-Hand Nikanas are the best (worst) example. It was _fine_ before the melee 2.99999 and became absolutely horrible after. But 2.9999 is still a GREAT update and if I had to choose between before and after - i wouldn't think a a single second.

[quxier]

18 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

You are right about button combinations but what he means is that the moves themselves bacame much worse and unplayable for some weapons.

Maybe. From my experience it makes me use weapons more.

It doesn't mean that probably half stances are bad and other half aren't great.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Oh I completely agree with you on this. When I've heard it on one of the DevStreams that high attack speed doesn't let players (DE) enjoy their hard work of making animations I was like "the fk ur talking about?" Animations are pretty but you have a HORDE shooter game with a very fast gameplay. I have no time to look at your gorgeous animations that take over control of my legs while performing combos that I find myself behind the enemy I'm trying to hit or falling off the bridge by jumping back while firing a gunblade. 

They meant very high speed. At very high speed it was mess. Everything was blurry.

However combos in itself doesn't do anything special. Most of them doing one of few things (attack, lift/stun (e.g. slam attack), pull (afair there is still some)). There are things like "are of movement/attack": gap closing, attack while you move forward, 360 attacks etc.

They limited speed - which seems reasonable but they haven't touched other aspect of melee.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

1. No directional buttons for combos, just change FORWARD to SIT (slide/duck button), So that 4 combos be like: 
combo 1 - spam E
combo 2 - spam E while holdind [AIM]
combo 3 - spam E while holding [SIT]
combo 4 - spam E while holding [AIM]+[SIT]

That's too much keys imho. Current system has very nice key combinations. We are using 3 keys at most (direction + melee attack + block).

I'm not sure in your system you allow to move using combos 1, 2 & 3.

In case of no movement then will be horrible. From my experience we have to move a lot. "Standing combos" aren't great. Movement (e.g. rolling) means less damage.

In case if you allow movement then you will introduce another key. I'm on PC but I still don't like it. Consoles would like it? I'm not so sure about it.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

2. Combos SHOULD NOT CONTROLL YOUR LEGS except for the gap-closing moves - and very important for those who don't allign melee attacks to camera - gap closers should work where body is turned at the moment. Not everyone likes the camera lock for melees. Especialy if you are a console/gamepad player

We should be allow to freely control our attacks. Whenever you are going forward, backward or to side it shouldn't matter. At least backward movement should be allowed.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

3. Combos should be more organized and similar to all the weapons, at least 1 and 2 should be the same:
combo 1 - only forward attacks (I want to hit the enemies only in front of me)
combo 2 - only 360 attacks (I want to hit all the enemies around me constantly)
combo 3 - only gap closers (I want to jump into the enemy withing 1-2-3 moves and when i'm close enough - use other combos)
combo 4 - can be anything special and cool but meaningful, not just some random fancy crap (I need damage/cc or smth useful, not EMOTEs)

Attacking what's in front of you is needed. Certain weapons could attack around you or to side.

Gap closing movement is good too. It should be quicker than just moving forward and attacking.

 

360 attacks is not  great idea. I mean, some weapons like whips could do 360 attacks but others aren't great at it.

Combo 4 is ok. It's block + attack now. Bullet dance has nice one. It shoot & moves you from side to side. I wonder what they could do with 20+ weapons and twice as much stances.

 

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

4. HEAVY ATTACKS could have some cool animations  (and maybe some invincible frames if it stunlocks you) while WIND UP and as well be mostly reworked taking Glaives as a perfect example. Some powerful AOE attacks or Frontal beam-like attacks, may be a single wave like Excalibur's Exalted Blade. And use Glaives HOLD E machanic - it allows using heavy attack from aim-gliding. It could be like that with any weapon, for example - hold E to wind up a heavy swing and then press [HEAVY ATTACK/SECONDARY FIRE] button for some AOE strike or a frontal wave. Glaves are very good at heavy attacks and mid air normal hits (but their combos suck big time). 

Cool animation won't save it.

Honestly it needs rework.

Heavy from ground:

- slow

- stops your frame from moving for some time

There should be way to speed up it (much more than wind up mods) and it shouldn't stop your frame.

From air:

- heavy slam attacks are nice but maybe they could use some range (?)

- you cannot use it for aerial attacks (not counting heavy slide attack) - they should just allow heavy attacks in the air; it's especially important for weapons with special gimmick like Arum spinosa or Zenistar.

There is no need for holding. It would slow down game.

 

Heavy attacks indeed needs some changes. It shouldn't be just "attack with more damage". It might be not possible to do it for every stance hower at least every weapon type/group should have unique one.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

5. SLAM attack should not be a camera thing, it conflicts badly with mid-air combo as soon as you tilt your camera down a little. E+[SIT] could be a good way to activate the SLAM attack, if you keep holding E till you touch the ground - HEAVY SLAM (optionally: E=Slam, Hold E=Heavy slam but holding aim-glide locks you into mid-air combo until you stop gliding to perform a slam) Slam radius should be affected by Reach mods (imo as well as glaive's explosion instead of a separate Volatile mod). 

Directional slam attacks are great for moving around. They shouldn't change it.

Conflict with air-combo is rare in my case, but YMMV. Instead of changing slams they could change aerial one. But in my opinion they are fine mechanically.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

6. Combo Counter - Combo decay from Naramom should be possible to Unbind as well as Zenurik's Heavy Attack Efficiency (and imo boosted to 80-90% so that mods affect the remaining 10-20% making it even less). More school passives should be unbindable but those two are the main and would work amazing together for mixed combo+heavy builds.

Combo counter decay & efficiency should be default on all weapons. Some weapons may have it slower/smaller.

Your combo shouldn't just magically disappear when you couldn't attack for 5 second or you have pressed heavy attack.

All those unlock able stuffs you said should just improve decay & combo efficiency.

On 2021-11-13 at 1:54 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Air combos could also be improved, because most of them are looking weird. I personally like Glaives 360 attacks only. For example Sparring weapons could perform spinning kicks mid air, dual swords could do Leonardo ninja turtle spin, etc. And please remove that thing HOLD BACK to perform air combos while MOVING FORWARD - who the hell decided this was a good idea? And I'll mention one more time about the conflict between slam attack and air combo (from point 5).

Probably all weapons have very similar aerial attacks. There should be some difference. Heavy blades could slam enemies to the ground. Whips could pick one and whip that enemies on other enemies in the air. Fist could jump/leap from enemy to enemy to attack them.

On other hand I've been thinking about Archwing auto targeting. It could work in general way.

 

[DoomFruit]

22 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

i don't quite understand here.. I am a Wisp main and i'd like to know what you mean.

Here:

It happened when they changed the input parsing. From what I understand, there used to be some sort of input queue which was removed. This means that if you don't press the attack button at exactly the right rate (or if you press it at exactly the wrong rate), the second button press vanishes entirely.

If you don't get it right away, try slowing down your melee button presses slightly. I seem to get it nearly 100% of the time when I'm under a speed buff and very occasionally when not (cold room slowing my fingers down?)

[TheLexiConArtist]

On 2021-11-09 at 5:05 PM, (PSN)palebluelight said:

You HAVE to acknowledge that speed is dps and weapons like the recently released karyst prime is balanced too slow for the berserker nerf.

That's still my everyday melee weapon of choice despite the nerf, don't know what you're talking about.

 

Oh wait, yes I do. Pointed Wind's basic combo (and remember, it doesn't even have a full combo moveset) had a full second of animation downtime in the middle of it even with the previous Berserker giving its 75% - not stacked with Fury, just that alone. Now it's even worse both because I have lower speed in one mod and because it wouldn't be multiplicative even if I had added speed elsewhere.

Most stances are absolutely horrid. I want so many old quick-melee sequences back it's not funny. But then, we rely on the multipliers and force-procs to get things done, as is blindingly obvious if you've ever tried to air-melee a Steel Path unit down compared to ground combos.

_{Karyst Prime is still best dagger though.}

[Scar.brother.help.me]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

It happened when they changed the input parsing. From what I understand, there used to be some sort of input queue which was removed. This means that if you don't press the attack button at exactly the right rate (or if you press it at exactly the wrong rate), the second button press vanishes entirely.

If you don't get it right away, try slowing down your melee button presses slightly. I seem to get it nearly 100% of the time when I'm under a speed buff and very occasionally when not (cold room slowing my fingers down?)

I think I've given up smashing melee button on the first or second day of playing Warframe somewhere in 2018 and made a simple macro to spam melee while holding the button and never came back from it. It is masochistic to smash that button all the time. I feel sorry for console players who can't customize their controls :p

[Famecans]

On 2021-11-09 at 4:03 PM, quxier said:

Before change there were random button mashing to execute more complex combos.

Now you have 4 basic one.

 

I like current one. Sure, it needs a lot of work but it's good start imho.

dude, the problem is that the current animation system is not a combo with keystrokes and the player cannot take control of the character during the animation event.

Particularly I find these moves ridiculous for gameplay, it's for this reason that most melees are broken and the preferred ones are the ones that perform sequenced moves similar to the old system. This current move system was meant to prevent hit spam but this got worse than before as it now only works for some melees.

The old move system is correct but if DE really wants to reduce key spam it needs to revise the way the interface counter works so it will only increase numbers after hitting complex hits with combination.

Pressing and repeating the E key must perform one or several simple strokes and not increase the interface counter, pressing the E key must not move the character and must not run an uncontrolled and inconsistent animation, this is horrible for most melees and does not increase damage, this is not a combo system.

For those who don't understand what a combo system is, here is the simple explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_(video_games)

[Famecans]

On 2021-11-14 at 4:28 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I think I've given up smashing melee button on the first or second day of playing Warframe somewhere in 2018 and made a simple macro to spam melee while holding the button and never came back from it. It is masochistic to smash that button all the time. I feel sorry for console players who can't customize their controls :p

"QOL" this is tiring because it only uses one key and does not have any significant additional damage benefit against the target enemy so you might as well create a macro to avoid repetitive strain injury (this is not a joke).

a simple solution for players of any platform is for DE to channel the sequenced hit's movement directly to the target enemy just like with atlas landslide, so the player doesn't need to aim at the target if the hit combo is being executed correctly.

note A: this should be similar to archwing's [extend] mod, just try this.
note B: this should consume energy or combo efficiency to actually avoid macro spam.
note C: only charged hit or combos hits should increase the interface combo counter.

that is, the DE really needs to overhaul the entire system to fix these issues that still remain in the current system.

[Famecans]

On 2021-11-12 at 9:58 AM, quxier said:

Melee has MANY problems, not only combos. I could write pages about them but no one from DE would read it (no swearing words :D ) looking how they couldn't even change Exodia Contagion to require any jump (Vitrica does it).

If someone is interested I may write about weapons in general and few one that I use. Not sure here... as it would be considered spam? Yeah... just so you know.

I agree with that and understand your position, DE seems to pay more attention to the Reddit forum. ✌️

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Famecans said:

dude, the problem is that the current animation system is not a combo with keystrokes

From the wiki:

Quote

In fighting games, combo specifically indicates a timed sequence of moves which produce a cohesive series of hits, each of which leaves the opponent unable or almost unable to block or otherwise avoid the following hits in the sequence.^[1]

WF's sounds like this. So I don't know what you are talking about.

5 hours ago, Famecans said:

and the player cannot take control of the character during the animation event.

I think there are 2 animation where player cannot control (not even cancel). One is wall attack and I don't remember other one.

5 hours ago, Famecans said:

This current move system was meant to prevent hit spam but this got worse than before as it now only works for some melees.

The old move system is correct but if DE really wants to reduce key spam it needs to revise the way the interface counter works so it will only increase numbers after hitting complex hits with combination.

Current system was meant to make it easier to perform certain movements. Even after Berseker nerf (+ another 40% speed mod) I could still spam my melee without seeing what I'm doing. I'm not sure what could prevent me from spamming my melee.

ps. I haven't even touched speedster frames

5 hours ago, Famecans said:

Pressing and repeating the E key must perform one or several simple strokes and not increase the interface counter, pressing the E key must not move the character and must not run an uncontrolled and inconsistent animation, this is horrible for most melees and does not increase damage, this is not a combo system.

Yeah, standing combos should move you. Only when you press arrows/wsad frame should move.

[Famecans]

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

6 hours ago, Famecans said:

dude, the problem is that the current animation system is not a combo with keystrokes

From the wiki:

Quote

In fighting games, combo specifically indicates a timed sequence of moves which produce a cohesive series of hits, each of which leaves the opponent unable or almost unable to block or otherwise avoid the following hits in the sequence.^[1]

WF's sounds like this. So I don't know what you are talking about.

this snippet you copied from the wiki talks about the "opponent" being unable to move. in warframe our character is unable to move and not the opponent. the combination/animation does not provide any positive effect, the character just dance ballet to empty.

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

6 hours ago, Famecans said:

and the player cannot take control of the character during the animation event.

I think there are 2 animation where player cannot control (not even cancel). One is wall attack and I don't remember other one.

there aren't just two lockable animations, all currently unpopular stance mods and melee classes are avoided as they have animations that horribly block the character's movement.

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

6 hours ago, Famecans said:

This current move system was meant to prevent hit spam but this got worse than before as it now only works for some melees.

The old move system is correct but if DE really wants to reduce key spam it needs to revise the way the interface counter works so it will only increase numbers after hitting complex hits with combination.

Current system was meant to make it easier to perform certain movements. Even after Berseker nerf (+ another 40% speed mod) I could still spam my melee without seeing what I'm doing. I'm not sure what could prevent me from spamming my melee.

ps. I haven't even touched speedster frames

please don't ignore the facts, dude I suppose you're a stationary player and don't use most melees with these problems. Wisp Speed Motes and Exodia Contagion are really enjoyable but skills that increase speed further worsen the effectiveness of deadly hits to some melees, I can't use melees like Nincond Prime or Okina.

[quxier]

33 minutes ago, Famecans said:

this snippet you copied from the wiki talks about the "opponent" being unable to move. in warframe our character is unable to move and not the opponent. the combination/animation does not provide any positive effect, the character just dance ballet to empty.

First we are able to move.

Secondly it indeed stuns some enemies a little. I've picked range/speed Scolliac with 300/300 Wisp (I don't need to use healing & stuffs). And I was able to kill everything I want.

37 minutes ago, Famecans said:

there aren't just two lockable animations, all currently unpopular stance mods and melee classes are avoided as they have animations that horribly block the character's movement.

Can you cancel animations via rolls? Yes? So strictly speaking they are not blocked.

Do I want free movement (where you can move left/right & forward/backward)? Sure. Especially backward movements.

47 minutes ago, Famecans said:

please don't ignore the facts,

What facts? I still able to spam melee even after next speed nerf.

48 minutes ago, Famecans said:

dude I suppose you're a stationary player and don't use most melees with these problems.

I'm player that uses some part of melee combos movements. I'm using one that moves me forward, one with gap closer & other depending on move. I'm using slams as well (with certain weapons even more).