Prime Resurgence needs an urgent fix!

[(PSN)Zoltan6201]

There is a huge problem with the new Prime Resurgence. 

Players are joining fissure missions with others in what are referred to as pick up groups (pugs) and then leaving the mission after reviewing the relics that people have equipped. This is intentionally done so that they do not lose their relics and can join a ne w pug.  I am only referring to players who intentionally leave using the Abort Mission option. This is unfair to other players because they often leave after the main objective threshold has been crossed and no other new players may join.

Now, some will say that one should not run relics with pugs, but that is really against the social nature of Warframe and doesn't solve the problem.

One could report the player for this behavior, but we don't want to innundate Warframe Support. The players that quit early also do not appear in the recently played with list.

I would like this problem addressed by Digital Extremes.

I am certain that players do not want relics committed and unrecoverable once a mission is joined, due to possible disconnection concerns or possible failure to get 10 void traces.

I would like to see a 2 hour ban on joining any new fissure mission for players who intentionally abuse the Abort Mission option on fissure missions, (multiple  missions), with such activity logged and tracked by Digital Extremes.

I am sure that many will disagree with me, but it IS a problem and players exploiting the system goes directly against their TOC.

Thank you.

 

[krc473]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

would like to see a 2 hour ban on joining any new fissure mission for players who intentionally abuse the Abort Mission option on fissure missions, with such activity logged and tracked by Digital Extremes.

This depends how you define “abusing”. How many times does someone have to do it to get the ban?

1 hour ago, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

am sure that many will disagree with me, but it IS a problem and players exploiting the system goes directly against their TOC

I am not 100% what you mean by “TOC” - Warframe has a EULA and ToU. Can you highlight the part, or parts that go against this “TOC”?

 

I figure that anyone joking a PUG knows and fully accepts that anything could happen. In saying that, if implemented correctly your suggestion would be okay. But you don’t provide enough information to tell if it is good or bad. Based on what you have said so far I would say DE should not consider it - it sounds like a system designed to punish many people that did nothing wrong.

[Hello]

It's not limited to Prime Resurgence. this happens every time something is unvaulted or a new prime releases. 

 

Also no, I don't agree with a 2 hour ban. Because you think people are leaving for your own idea and punishing people that leave for other reasons. 

I don't look at relics. I don't care or know what even is in relics people equip. I leave because of frames mostly. Volt? Leave. Wisp? Leave. Frames are the only thing I look at in groups.

I have 4091 quit missions and I'm willing to bet 1/3 of them are because of the 2 frames mentioned above. 

[LSG501]

The abort from a fissure missions 'issue' has been around as long as relics have been around. 

In all honesty I can kind of understand the reasons why some would do it, hoping for another of the same relic etc (game could do with something other than recruit for this) but there are obviously going to be some just 'leeching' due to the sheer rng/grind/luck needed on relics for a new prime frame.

 

I don't like the idea of a ban either, I wouldn't say no to an improved system for running and acquiring relics.... we're half way there with getting the relics, the aya approach is a much better system for getting specific relics than the current rng approach if it was expanded to ALL relics.  As to running them, a simple tick box to match with the same relic would solve that issue on launch although later down the line player numbers could be an issue. 

 

As above you can't use quit count as a factor either, my quit count has gone up due to quitting kuva larvling missions when they don't have the right weapon (stupid design which encourages aborting mission) and as above people have quit due to other frames, hell I had one quit on me today because he saw my Sevagoth in hydron and just assumed I was running gloom, which slows stuff down, when I wasn't....

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

his is unfair to other players because they often leave after the main objective threshold has been crossed and no other new players may join.

 

 

how is this a problem if you've already completed the objective?

its not like you need More players to join to help you finish the mission, the objective is already done so you're fine now.

[(PSN)Zoltan6201]

4 hours ago, Hello said:

Also no, I don't agree with a 2 hour ban. Because you think people are leaving for your own idea and punishing people that leave for other reasons. 

I don't look at relics. I don't care or know what even is in relics people equip. I leave because of frames mostly. Volt? Leave. Wisp? Leave. Frames are the only thing I look at in groups.

I have 4091 quit missions and I'm willing to bet 1/3 of them are because of the 2 frames mentioned above. 

It would have to be repeated quitting in relic missions. Not the first time.

I am not talking about any missions other than relic missions.

Something has to be done. It's a big problem.

It's just not being a team player and abusing the current system to their advantage. 

I know nothing will be done and many will disagree, but that is the nature of the forums.

[Hello]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

It would have to be repeated quitting in relic missions. Not the first time.

I am not talking about any missions other than relic missions.

Something has to be done. It's a big problem.

It's just not being a team player and abusing the current system to their advantage. 

I know nothing will be done and many will disagree, but that is the nature of the forums.

That's the thing. The main missions I play public is fissures. The majority of the game I play solo. So I leave relic missions a lot for the reason my first comment mentioned. Sometimes 10-20 times a day if I just run fissures and nothing else. 

[iPathos]

As has already been stated - this has happened since relics were introduced. It's not a large percentage of players overall who do this, and those who do are the ones missing out when they could just as easily look for a premade group. The solution you suggest is too heavy-handed and entirely open to more misunderstandings than the current trade moratorium rules/algorithm.

[(PSN)max141064]

Yeah, this happened since relics became a thing in the game.

but to add to your point...why should the player get punished for something like that? 

90% of the time i play solo so this doesn't really apply to me but if i get in a mission to farm stuff just because i want to see if i need something else and if the other people have equipped a relic i may need, why should i be punished for leaving? 

let's make an example...

if i, "bad" player that leaves the mission, need...i dunno, let's say Spira prime.

and the other people in my team don't have any relic with a Spira part or any other weapon/warframe i may need.

why should i be punished for leaving a mission with rewards that i will not use at all in any case? 

 

the issue here is more about how the missions to open relics are.

Even if another player could enter and help with putting a relic on the table the problem would morph into "Why are people compleating the mission without waiting for the new guy that just joined to take void traces?" 

not even talking about how DE can even begin to make something that can detect a crash, a problem in their house, an emergency, bathroom time, any medical problem or even missclicking. it's borderline impossible to determine if a player left the game on purpose or not or if the player had to leave because X problem.

i know that it's a boring answer to give and something we all heard at least 100 times since we started playing but...the best chance you have is to open relics with friends or with your clan or with a squad of people that you contacted in recruiting chat and enstablished what to do and how to do it.. 

TL:DR : The 2 hours ban seems a lot like a moba soft-ban that doesn't really need to be in a game that the only competitive thing in it is fashionframe and people have 23583464978643798439854326734868724306257624736245672034 reasons to leave a mission.

[LSG501]

15 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

how is this a problem if you've already completed the objective?

its not like you need More players to join to help you finish the mission, the objective is already done so you're fine now.

No other player can join in to take the place of the one that has left... basically you lose one of the relics to pick from.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

No other player can join in to take the place of the one that has left... basically you lose one of the relics to pick from.

But its a PUG, the other player's relics are random, not coordinated beforehand to be anything good.

So you really shouldn't care who or how many there are.

[LSG501]

Just now, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

But its a PUG, the other player's relics are random, not coordinated beforehand to be anything good.

So you really shouldn't care who or how many there are.

4 relics give you 4 things to pick from, 3 gives you 3 to pick from.... it's not rocket science but less relics being opened means less chance to get a 'good' drop.  Just because it's random relics doesn't mean a player doesn't want to get the best value item (or a forma)...

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

4 relics give you 4 things to pick from, 3 gives you 3 to pick from.... it's not rocket science but less relics being opened means less chance to get a 'good' drop.  Just because it's random relics doesn't mean a player doesn't want to get the best value item (or a forma)...

 

You know if you really wanted a specific drop, (or a forma)

you can LFG so everyone has the same relic, right?

that solves the entire problem of all 4 relics containing 'good' drops.

no need to self-impose yet another layer of RNG by having no clue what the other players are holding.

[LSG501]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

You know if you really wanted a specific drop, (or a forma)

you can LFG so everyone has the same relic, right?

that solves the entire problem of all 4 relics containing 'good' drops.

no need to self-impose yet another layer of RNG by having no clue what the other players are holding.

are you just deliberately being dense or.....

[(NSW)Zergmaster999]

15 hours ago, LSG501 said:

are you just deliberately being dense or.....

I think they might be misunderstanding that after a certain amount of mission progression (about 50% kills in exterminate, 2-3 waves in defense or interception, 2-3 excavators completed, ect.), public matchmaking is set to off for the remainder of the mission.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

I've been saying this for a long time, for endurance missions we need an endurance option because people don't be playing endurance for endurance so you be left with basically the same issue.

On 2021-11-25 at 7:31 PM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

So you really shouldn't care who or how many there are.

Is that supposed to be a good reason not to make improvements? Sure it's pub but making it a better option creates no set backs.

You do realize pub's purpose of existing is for joining missions quickly? Not just a mere gamble of players. No one chooses it to play with no one. They choose it to dodge recruiting...

[BiancaRoughfin]

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

in what are referred to as pick up groups (pugs)

No need explaining this, people here are more then well aware what it is mind you.

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

Players are joining fissure missions with others then leaving the mission after reviewing the relics that people have equipped. This is intentionally done so that they do not lose their relics and can join a ne w pug.

1. Relics must be cracked open collecting 10 Reactants which if not in a Railjack mission you have to collect individually.
2. Once the Relic is opened its consumed, they have to extract to receive the prime item that was inside and the relic is lost.
3. Extracting during the mission before others doesnt prevent them from losing the Relic, they still lose it just like everyone else will and it doesnt matter which reward you picked.

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

I am only referring to players who intentionally leave using the Abort Mission option.

 Players that Abort lose everything they collected in the mission, this includes crafting materials, blueprints, mods, bonus affinity, prime parts from relics and any other reward/drop.

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

One could report the player for this behavior, but we don't want to innundate Warframe Support. The players that quit early also do not appear in the recently played with list.

No you cant report players for leaving a mission, its not an offense and no one is obligated to your entitlement to stay in the mission to give you or others a higher drop chance.

As for "Recently Played" , on Pc at least it appears for me.

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

I am certain that players do not want relics committed and unrecoverable once a mission is joined, due to possible disconnection concerns or possible failure to get 10 void traces.

If the player doesnt get the 10 Void traces they dont lose anything, the Relic is not lost if they dont open it that round. Also, DE has countermeasures in case of disconnects in case of endless missions.

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

I would like to see a 2 hour ban on joining any new fissure mission for players who intentionally abuse the Abort Mission option on fissure missions, with such activity logged and tracked by Digital Extremes.

Apparently the player coming out empty handed isnt bad enough consequence for you.

On 2021-11-24 at 7:03 PM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

I am sure that many will disagree with me, but it IS a problem and players exploiting the system goes directly against their TOC.

They arent gaining anything from it then its not a violation of TOS.

[(PSN)Zoltan6201]

6 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

They arent gaining anything from it then its not a violation of TOS.

They are exploiting the system to their advantage.

They are avoiding using and losing the relic they own. 

Maybe they only want to play with people using a Prime Resurgence relic? You do not get to choose if you play with pugs. They're cheating.

 

Obviously one cannot report a player for solely leaving a mission early. I am ONLY referring to observing multiple individuals join squads doing FISSURE missions and quitting once they see the equipped relics. "Hey, there's JanDoe32156(fictitious example), they'll quit once we load in."

[(PSN)Zoltan6201]

On 2021-11-25 at 5:12 PM, LSG501 said:

As above you can't use quit count as a factor either, my quit count has gone up due to quitting kuva larvling missions when they don't have the right weapon (stupid design which encourages aborting mission) and as above people have quit due to other frames, hell I had one quit on me today because he saw my Sevagoth in hydron and just assumed I was running gloom, which slows stuff down, when I wasn't....

They can usquit count for only fissure type missions. Just because we cannot see the types of missions left broken down by mission type doesn't mean that DE can't.

[LSG501]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

They can usquit count for only fissure type missions. Just because we cannot see the types of missions left broken down by mission type doesn't mean that DE can't.

Think about what you're asking for..... there is more than one type of fissure mission so it's not quite as simple as you make out, not to mention breaking down people 'quitting' and people having disconnects, they look the same to the host. 

In all honesty you just need to suck up the fact that people quit missions for various reasons and either go with recruit or accept that public missions will always have issues, DE aren't likely to fix any issues unless they impact the rate which they can sell prime access or regal aya ( just look how fast they removed ghoul purge). 

[kinoko_takenoko]

I think that discouraging certain types of play through punishment with the risk of misidentification is simple and can have some effect.
However, I think more players would be happy if we could apply the Operation Link concept and give 4 relic rewards for each player who opens a relic on the sameera, regardless of whether they are in or out of a squad.

One relic opened by one player, even if solo, should be presented as a reward option to three other players in addition to themselves.
For example, one relic opened by each player in a 3 player squad could be presented as a reward option for one player in another squad (because it is already presented as a reward for two other players in the squad).
This would eliminate the structure of people leaving the squad and taking away reward opportunities, and would also allow people the freedom to leave a squad they don't want to play with.

[BiancaRoughfin]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

They are avoiding using and losing the relic they own. 

Avoiding losing Relics but not getting anything return either, as i said, when you open a relic you only earn the primed items if you finish the mission. Even the traces they earn are lost from leaving the mission so there is no exploit occuring here.

[Silligoose]

On 2021-11-25 at 12:03 AM, (PSN)Zoltan6201 said:

There is a huge problem with the new Prim Resurgence. 

Players are joining fissure missions with others in what are referred to as pick up groups (pugs) and then leaving the mission after reviewing the relics that people have equipped. This is intentionally done so that they do not lose their relics and can join a ne w pug.  I am only referring to players who intentionally leave using the Abort Mission option. This is unfair to other players because they often leave after the main objective threshold has been crossed and no other new players may join.

Now, some will say that one should not run relics with pugs, but that is really against the social nature of Warframe and doesn't solve the problem.

One could report the player for this behavior, but we don't want to innundate Warframe Support. The players that quit early also do not appear in the recently played with list.

I would like this problem addressed by Digital Extremes.

I am certain that players do not want relics committed and unrecoverable once a mission is joined, due to possible disconnection concerns or possible failure to get 10 void traces.

I would like to see a 2 hour ban on joining any new fissure mission for players who intentionally abuse the Abort Mission option on fissure missions, with such activity logged and tracked by Digital Extremes.

I am sure that many will disagree with me, but it IS a problem and players exploiting the system goes directly against their TOC.

Thank you.

 

I have noticed the issue you speak of here, although i am fortunate enough not to encounter it often. This kind behavior is in stark contrast to the Warframe's community's generally good-natured demeanor and does taint the player experience.

I'd be happy so see a temporary ban implemented for repeated offences in fissure missions, as it does feel like an abuse/exploitation of mechanics to improve farming efficiency. As you mention It would need to be repeated offences ( I suggest adding that to the first post), in the event players encounter a troll teammate that uses Warframe abilities to troll teammates, have technical issues causing a disconnect via internet issues, game crashes etc, with some sort of coodown (ie 3 mission aborts in a span of 6 hours = ban)

An additional solution could be to hide the relic type in pub games, though I'd still like to see a temporary ban on repeated "abort mission" users in fissure missions to keep that kind of trash out of pub fissure games.

[blupache]

I do think this is a problem, but I'm mostly philosophical about it.

However I think the Prime Resurgence format has made this worse.

Given the time it takes to get aya to drop, only having 1+1 weeks to farm an item has heavily incentivised trying to scumbag off other people's relics.

Over the normal ~3 month window it's nowhere near as bad as it is currently, and I've got to assume it'll get worse as the early stage-1-ghoul provided aya supply dries up.

I have never liked or done radshares, but I'm feeling forced into it at present & given how few other resurgence relics I'm seeing in pub groups, I don't think I'm alone.