L3512 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said: Indeed. I cannot imagine why someone wouldn't bother to just bring along SOME random relic. I mean at the end of the day it really hurts them far more than anyone else in the group. Imagine jumping into a pickup fissure with no relic, and at the end the team is shouting in chat about how they got the latest "X Rare Systems BP" and you are sitting there like a jackhole wondering why you did that to yourself as you leave red-faced with a handful of traces and a shameful story you'll never tell anyone. Like when you've been playing WF for too long and forget to pick up traces, of course another player rolls that 2% chance rare part you need from an intact. 🤣 9 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said: It seems when that happens, at least in my experience it defaulted to the one I had rolled, and not the one I picked from another player, but I don't know if you had the same experience or not? I would be curious to know how it worked for you. Yes I think so because needing forma BP's is why I was doing the mission, so I'm pretty sure when the forma I wanted came from my relic I choose the Vectis part, because that's not really a choice, but WF thought otherwise lol. As I had just completed TNW shortly before that, I figured my tenno got those three receivers in some universe lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)max141064 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 18 hours ago, PrimalordialBob said: They can do the mission in singleplayer, not in public which has unofficially become the place to run random int relics for traces/prime parts. Nha dude, the quest has always been the quest to farm void traces. since day one. but again....if you don't like it, do relics in solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaZeku Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said: It doesn't seem likely or right to force these people who are just starting the game to play fissures solo until they have a pool of relics. How so? The game basically teaching new players "use a Relic because it benefits your Squad (as well as yourself)" would seem to me like a very good thing, also like you say it's not all that hard to get Relics, so encouraging their usage ... yes please. 20 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said: Nha dude, the quest has always been the quest to farm void traces. Fissures are for opening Relics first and foremost, farming / using Void Traces is an additional function / option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)max141064 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 22 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said: The short and quick answer is "i want to steal prime parts from everyone and if some of them farm void traces in the mission meant to farm void traces takes away my chance to steal something good from your relic. because i don't want to farm, i want others to farm for me." 20 hours ago, NinjaZeku said: Wow that's cynical. ... and also quite possbily on point for some players, sure, but I'd like to believe many if not most see Warframe as a co-op game, where you work together and benefit from others being there, just as they benefit from your own presence. Doing something that hurts others just so you can put in even less effort and still get Traces, that's just not okay in my book. BTW, the opposite of what you describe can happen as well, if I run a vaulted Radiant Relic that's basically just Ducats to me, it simply feels bad if there's a player in my Squad that doesn't get this easy chance at vaulted goodness. 16 hours ago, NinjaZeku said: They're taking the slot of someone who'd actually use a Relic (which, you know, is kind of the main point of running Fissures), thus making the other 3 players lose out on a reward choice, all for their own selfish gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)max141064 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said: Fissures are for opening Relics first and foremost, farming / using Void Traces is an additional function / option. First and foremost nothing. lol DE made Fissures for both purposes, if you don't like people to use fissures for the purpose they have been created for, go solo. never go pub. because nobody ows you anything, nobody has to follow your lead or command. it is literally not that deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaZeku Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, (PSN)max141064 said: ... ye? What's your point? Not using a Relic hurts the Squad, including the Relic-less one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaZeku Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, (PSN)max141064 said: First and foremost nothing. lol DE made Fissures for both purposes, if you don't like people to use fissures for the purpose they have been created for, go solo. never go pub. because nobody ows you anything, nobody has to follow your lead or command. it is literally not that deep. It's not about "owing" (or the ToS) or anything. It's about basic human decency, about considering other people, why they are there in the mission. The "just go Solo" option simply makes more sense for those that don't want to use Relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)max141064 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said: It's not about "owing" (or the ToS) or anything. It's about basic human decency, about considering other people, why they are there in the mission. The "just go Solo" option simply makes more sense for those that don't want to use Relics. it makes more sense because you want their prime parts? lol go solo my dude. nobody ows you anything. the entitlement of it all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutesque Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 2022-01-20 at 10:33 AM, NinjaZeku said: It's very simple, if someone wants only Traces, they should run Solo. No.. if someone wants Only Traces... They should pick up Reactant.... That's it.... They are Not obligated to do Anything more than that for Anyone else's Convenience.... 👀 On 2022-01-20 at 10:33 AM, NinjaZeku said: Going into a Public Fissure and not using a Relic is bad and you should feel bad. That very well might be True.... But if the person doing that doesn't feel bad then... They don't I guess.... Why hold it Against Them ? On 2022-01-20 at 10:33 AM, NinjaZeku said: Not sure if forcing Relics in Public is the right thing to do, but TBH I think it'd do more good than harm. I Uhm..... I don't know.... I'm against Using any Sort of Force in General... Lord knows I hate it.... But at the Same time it's so Obvious that it's better to always use a Relic that I feel like making a change like this would just be a waste of The Developers time regardless of how easy it would be To Implement.... Ask any Tenno.... It's better to use a Relic.... There's no Need to force.... Those who Choose not to use One are missing out... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ On 2022-01-20 at 11:07 AM, PrimalordialBob said: They already force relics for void storms, so forcing relics is nothing new Edit: Was wrong about that, oh well. Regardless if you want to farm traces just solo an exterminate or sabotage mission. It isn't hard. But it is That Boring and Lonely.... 23 hours ago, drnlmza said: Why? Sure, nobody's getting any potential rewards from the person without a relic (whoop-de-do, the 4 ducat drop in the expected outcome from 4 people running intact relics to 3 really hurts. My heart bleeds for the other players), but they're giving up the chance to get any rewards themselves for the benefits of playing in a group. How on earth is this a thing worth complaining about? LoL... Thats exactly what I want to know.... 😱 I don't know... Maybe some of us Are like @Tiltskillet and only Expect what we Contributed and seeing anything beyond that is a Bonus while other people feel like They are Being Robbed of Something that Doesn't Exist... 👀 21 hours ago, NinjaZeku said: Wow that's cynical. ... and also quite possbily on point for some players, sure, but I'd like to believe many if not most see Warframe as a co-op game, where you work together and benefit from others being there, just as they benefit from your own presence. Doing something that hurts others just so you can put in even less effort and still get Traces, that's just not okay in my book. Unless those Players are Actively Preventing you from Opening your Relics then not only are they not Hurting you.... They actually are Helping.... Simply Having More People increases Enemy Spawns which means more Corrupted Enemies which means more Rolls for Reactant.... There's a Difference between Hurting Your Team Mates versus Not Contributing to Potential Bonuses that you should be Thankful that you are able to get at all.... 👀 Nobody in your Team Owes you Anything..... They are all Free to not Contribute Relics and you are Free to Find a better Group if you want to... I mean DE has done Everything to Incentivize always Putting Up Relics and Always doing them in groups.... If somebody doesn't want to then that's their loss.... Not yours 😱 !!! 17 hours ago, NinjaZeku said: They're taking the slot of someone who'd actually use a Relic (which, you know, is kind of the main point of running Fissures), thus making the other 3 players lose out on a reward choice, all for their own selfish gains. But they aren't gaining anything by not putting up Any Relics.... And you are not entitled to any rewards other than the ones you contributed torwards..... 👀 16 hours ago, Silligoose said: How about if players do recruit a squad and someone still doesn't equip a relic? This Actually Happened to me 5 Times Yesterday.... But it was intentional... We were helping Someone get Enough Traces for Refining a Loki Prime Systems Relic.... 👀 16 hours ago, Silligoose said: I'm all for allowing players to play different ways, but there are limits. What's next? Should players tolerate those who afk from the start of missions? Maybe we should just tolerate the Limbo's trolling teammates as well? Can't expect them to play a certain way, right? If they AFK right from the get Go... Just Abort.... As For Limbos.... In those Cases I observe before Deciding to Abort or Not... It's only If they AFK in the middle where things Get Messed Up... 😱 16 hours ago, Silligoose said: Lines need to be drawn to prevent a few bad apples from spoiling the barrel. I totally Agree... But this issue isn't one of those Bad Apples.... Relicless Players are not harming Anyone.... They are simply not Giving you a Bonus you are lucky to have to begin with.... 13 hours ago, MagPrime said: If you want to know my stance on AFK'ers; I don't know what's going on behind their screen. Multiple times I've been sucked into missions by auto starters because of the wonky host migration or I've been standing still for most of a mission because on my side, I'm still loading in but everyone else is at Extraction. Judging by your posts, you consider AFK'ers to be bad apples and give not one care to what's actually happening. Happens most Frequently in Railjack... It's actually so Bad it can Prevent everyone else from Completing The Mission and you can't even Bring up The Chat Window to let Everyone know what the Problem is... 😭 10 hours ago, Silligoose said: Now with regards to the examples you provide: That would generally be easily identified as outlier cases ie players leaving due to an emergency, or because they lost connection or power etc. Data would be able to distinguish between innocent outlier cases and habitual cases and before you even ask: Yes, games also punish innocent habitual leavers with a pub time-out and for good reason: They are affecting other players' experience negatively more often than not. I see no issue with that and I've been within the demographic that has had connection issues due to geographical location and ISP ineptitude. Then I think we're done here.... You're being Intensionally Ignorant to Mitigating Factors.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 5 hours ago, PrimalordialBob said: Why can't they just go into solo if they are going after traces? The unsaid rule of public is to farm traces/ open random relics. Breaking that unsaid rule is a bit rude And they are Punished for it whenever rare Reward Drops and they can't Take it.... The game is even designed to show you what you're missing out on if even if you're just Farming Traces.... That's a good Enough Reason for those Trace Farmers not to go Solo... I want to See them writhe in Jealousy as I get Uncommon Forma Blueprints from Radiant Relics... 😎.... What more do you want ? 😱 4 hours ago, Sakatchi said: I don't use a relic when I'm farming void traces cause I'm the goddamn god of getting forma blueprints. And If you somehow found myself in my game you should thank me for not cursing you with forma. But I want your Forma Blueprints... Please Don't go Solo.... I NEED YOU !! 😭 3 hours ago, L3512 said: Correct, so unless people don't have relics it's always better to run one. One of the last shortish random survivals I ran drop one Gara prime blueprint and I think 3 Vectis prime receivers all from intact relics (all rare). My internet DC'd but I managed to reconnect though Ordis magically turned a Vectis receiver into a forma 🤣, So I only got two lol. I hate it when that Happens.... 😭 1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said: How so? The game basically teaching new players "use a Relic because it benefits your Squad (as well as yourself)" would seem to me like a very good thing, also like you say it's not all that hard to get Relics, so encouraging their usage ... yes please. You're Right... DE has done Everything to Incentivize using a Relic.... So if someone decides to Screw themselves by not using one.... What does that have to do with You ? I mean you got your Goodies from your Relic did you not ? 🤔 1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said: Fissures are for opening Relics first and foremost, farming / using Void Traces is an additional function / option. Wrong.... According the Way The Game is Designed.... Fissures are 100% Identical to Regular Missions.... The only Difference is Fissure Versions have Relics and Traces as Optional Objectives.... Yes That's Right.... By Design The Opening of Relics is 100% Optional.... This isn't my Oppinion... Thats legitamately how the game Actually Works... You can still Fail a Void Fissure by failing to Complete the Mission Objective even if you open Relic... While on the Other End you can still Succeed A Fissure even if you fail to Open Your Relics..... In Short.... It's Bad Design.... And there's been lots of Feedback about How bad this design Works over the Years.... I'm not Defending It... I'm just Clarifying the exact nature of What Void Fissures Really Are.... It's not even the only Example Either.... Kuva Siphons have this exact Problem Too.... As does any Mission where the Optional objective is worth more than the Actual Mission Objective.... The Truth is... There actually isn't a Dedicated Mission For Opening Relics.... Don't let the Fancy UI and Lotus Dialogue Trick you.... If you're Doing a Void Fissure Capture Mission... The Game only cares if you actually Capture the Target.... It doesn't give a Rats Ass whether you open your Relic Or Not.... 1 hour ago, (PSN)max141064 said: First and foremost nothing. lol LoL.... That was Abit mean but I guess we're all running low on Patience... 🤣 1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said: It's not about "owing" (or the ToS) or anything. It's about basic human decency, about considering other people, why they are there in the mission. Nobody Owes You Basic Human Decency.... Especially In Public Games... 👀... 1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said: The "just go Solo" option simply makes more sense for those that don't want to use Relics. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to Call you out on this one.... This only makes "Sense" to you because you are only thinking if yourself.... Why don't you ask The Person not Using Relics if it makes sense to them.... I bet there are factors you haven't considered because you are only thinking Your Needs and no one else's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimalordialBob Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said: it makes more sense because you want their prime parts? lol go solo my dude. nobody ows you anything. the entitlement of it all.. It's amusing that you are telling the dude who just doing what public exists for to go solo. At this point public exists to farm traces and run random relics with others. However, some people break the unspoken rules and just farm traces in public. If you want to farm traces go solo. If there are 3 people trying to farm relics/traces and you are there farming traces without a relic you are leeching off the 3 people's effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Anyone else notice the pattern of players who rest their points on "for the good of the team/community" and "being a decent person/player" are the ones who are trying to require certain standards and behavior that mainly benefit them? And their solutions are almost always to throw people who don't meet their standards into solo instances and not any other option? We have 4 lobby options but it's always "play my way or GTFO and play by yourself" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 ... I'm just going to point out that "my argument is better than yours because its mine" doesn't fly for something that's clearly obvious... 8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said: Fissures are for opening Relics first and foremost Just because you think ^this^ as being "the truth" doesn't make the fact that opening Relics is actually secondary task to the fissure mission go away, otherwise there wouldn't be a "No Relic" option for players to choose. Explanation below... Most players have deemed "opening Relics" as the primary task in a Fissure mission, which is not however if it makes them happy, its actually funnier to let them think it is. That way, everyone is supposedly happy. No, the main task in a fissure mission, and this is true for any Fissure mission (didn't run a single Storm yet so I obviously can't consider that side of the coin) is to collect traces. This is an undeniable fact shoved at every participant's face in every single fissure. "But its to open Relics" -> Read above. Its pretty much the same thing with players assuming that Elite/Sanctuary Onslaught is to farm focus, affinity, relics or equipment parts & blueprints. Every player is free to deem whatever they want as a primary task to those two specific game modes... But neither makes it an universal truth, considering E/SO... Fissures, on the other hand, can be done without relics and still provide Void Traces which makes collecting Void Traces a Primary Task while bumping Relics into a Secondary Task rather than a necessity. "But DE stated that its for opening relics" -> Again, read above. DE came up with fissures to avoid Prime complaints (yep, that's apparently a thing) being tied up with Void tileset, and they needed a reason to switch Void Keys with Relics... Its not about "not diluting the reward tables", because they could very well switch stuff in and out like they do with Relics. Its because people didn't want to run Void missions for Prime stuff anymore. So~, why not giving players some measure of control by adding more RNG layers while they we're at it... Well, it made people happy. Do note though that even if Relics are a Secondary Task as per Fissure mission functionality & rewards given per "rotation" (every 10 reactants, for those that still aren't aware of it in 2022), they are not irrelevant for those that are looking for prime parts & blueprints (See ^up there^ for reference). However, someone coming out of whatever crevice that weirdly looks like a certain anatomical organ just to complaint about a player that chose not to use relics in a public fissure is SO out there (This is specifically for the OP) that I can't both take it seriously and see it any different from a bad quality troll bait. Its like people not getting vaccinated because they think the needles are alive and they're going to eat their insides. Anyway, I'm actually tired of people waving their priorities in a given mission as ThE mIsSiOn and the universal truth for all players so~ that's my thoughts about the whole "my argument is better than yours because its mine" pissing contest that I've seen for 2 pages, so people should get the facts straight already once and for all - Personal Priorities do NOT make the mission's purpose and/or objective or universal to all players. Its "personal" for a reason and should not be confused with anything else other than the real meaning of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutesque Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, MagPrime said: Anyone else notice the pattern of players who rest their points on "for the good of the team/community" and "being a decent person/player" are the ones who are trying to require certain standards and behavior that mainly benefit them? LoL... Yep.... I would actually have more respect for them if they were just Honest about it.... Because I get it.... They want more Goodies... We All do... There's nothing wrong with That.... But pretending like their Doing those other players a Favour is just Reprehensible.... 😐 Whenever I say I want Nullifiers or Eidolons removed from the Game I make it damn clear I'm doing it because I think they Suck Donkey Balls.... I honestly don't care what effect it has on Anyone else.... Granted that Doesn't make me likeable... But atleast it's the Truth... I think most people can Respect That... 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 5 hours ago, MagPrime said: Anyone else notice the pattern of players who rest their points on "for the good of the team/community" and "being a decent person/player" are the ones who are trying to require certain standards and behavior that mainly benefit them? And their solutions are almost always to throw people who don't meet their standards into solo instances and not any other option? We have 4 lobby options but it's always "play my way or GTFO and play by yourself" That's why my blanket answer to anyone saying something is "the right way to play" is to tell them to just accept that other players in random games may have different goals, or stop jumping into random games if they can't handle that. It doesn't matter what is theoretically right for liches, fissures, or any other mission based on theoretical "good of the community". Random games are chaos, full of people who might have differing goals. If you can't accept chaos don't jump into the maelstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said: That's why my blanket answer to anyone saying something is "the right way to play" is to tell them to just accept that other players in random games may have different goals, or stop jumping into random games if they can't handle that. It doesn't matter what is theoretically right for liches, fissures, or any other mission based on theoretical "good of the community". Random games are chaos, full of people who might have differing goals. If you can't accept chaos don't jump into the maelstrom. Which is why I maintain starting your own group of like minded players is the optimal option and we should focus on improving finding those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)max141064 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 hours ago, PrimalordialBob said: However, some people break the unspoken rules and just farm traces in public. That's your problem: There is NO unspoken rule that tells you that you have to farm void traces in solo. Get off you high horses, the mission is MADE to farm prime pieces AND farm void traces. If you don't want to have the possibility of finding people that are there (AND HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO) to farm void traces... G.O. S.O.L.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Rez090 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 10 hours ago, PrimalordialBob said: However, some people break the unspoken rules and just farm traces in public. Now how in high water would you know that players are only farming traces in public? You secretly watching every player over their shoulder? Sorry but this is factually not true and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam686 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Equipped a relic, got 10 reactants, and "No relic equipped" bugs in public matchmaking is mostly why I like this idea of requiring to equip a relic. Just don't let me in a fissure mission with no relic when I specifically told the game to equip a relic. I sometimes see this happen to a few other random matchmaking players as well. The title: "Make it mandatory to have a relic if running fissures on public." I believe the game already hides all void fissures when a player have 0 Lith, 0 Meso, 0 Neo, 0 Axi, and 0 Requiem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, sam686 said: Equipped a relic, got 10 reactants, and "No relic equipped" bugs in public matchmaking is mostly why I like this idea of requiring to equip a relic. Just don't let me in a fissure mission with no relic when I specifically told the game to equip a relic. I sometimes see this happen to a few other random matchmaking players as well. The title: "Make it mandatory to have a relic if running fissures on public." I believe the game already hides all void fissures when a player have 0 Lith, 0 Meso, 0 Neo, 0 Axi, and 0 Requiem. It does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, sam686 said: The title: "Make it mandatory to have a relic if running fissures on public." I believe the game already hides all void fissures when a player have 0 Lith, 0 Meso, 0 Neo, 0 Axi, and 0 Requiem. I have certainly taken people with no relics to fissures before. There is no issue in them running the mission. I doubt it is hidden if they can do it, but I have never had no relics. I doubt that requiring a relic would fix the bugs. You would still tell the game to pick one, just like you do now. If the game decides to not let you take it you are stuck. I like the idea of them fixing the bugs, I don’t think relics should be mandatory. There are valid reasons to want to run fissures to collect traces. The main one I would say is having limited relics, but needing to radiant them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jaggerwanderer Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 I would argue that a pre made group after every player equip a relic it does not auto start but only the host of the group can start the mission. I've been in too many rad groups where someone 'picked the wrong' relic somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffan Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 On 2022-01-20 at 2:18 PM, MagPrime said: They can also make groups when they want to do those things, or run solo themselves. Imagine this game actually had a LFG UI system so people could actually list, filter, apply and therefore easily form groups without having to spam a textbox like it's 2001 Everquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Daffan said: Imagine this game actually had a LFG UI system so people could actually list, filter, apply and therefore easily form groups without having to spam a textbox like it's 2001 Everquest. It would be nice to have a better LFG UI, I think its the only way to fix issues that have been brought up in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Greybones Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, MagPrime said: It would be nice to have a better LFG UI, I think its the only way to fix issues that have been brought up in this thread. Agreed. Might help solve a lot of issues with being matched with randoms in general (hopefully without splitting the playerbase in a bad way or anything) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said: Agreed. Might help solve a lot of issues with being matched with randoms in general (hopefully without splitting the playerbase in a bad way or anything) Any form of filter is gonna split the player base though. Only way to avoid that is if there are no matching teams within a certain amount of time (maybe player set?) the system drops you into unfiltered groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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