The focus rework and Zenurik

[TheArmchairThinker]

Zenurik change : passive 1 energy/sec aura for you and teammates within affinity range on transfe, stack with up to 1 other zenurik user for 2 energy/sec max.

Now you have the need to manage your energy as some Tenno say we need to manage things during gameplay.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You wouldn't happen to be using one of those Builds that doesn't have Vitality or Redirection Would you ?

Because that the only thing that would Explain how you can Mod for Efficiency.... 🤔

Nope, and why would that be the only thing to allow for modding efficiency?

We have 8 mod slots, maxing efficiency takes 2, using 2-3 umbra (or other survival+strength mods) leaves 3-4 slots as spares, popping in primed continuity to off set fleeting takes another, now you have 2-3 slots open that can be spent on further strength, duration, range or defensive options, or a mix of them. Depending on the frame you'll likely have one dump stat you can completely ignore and at times two (hello Daynox).

With how poorly several skills scale and how frames tend to work, investing in massive strength is often pointless since you'll likely kill with weapons mostly in the end anyways. Sure it might be fun to see that massively high roar buff on your Rhino or Vex on Chroma, but it is utterly pointless since we know even 200% strength on subsumed roar is enough to make it count, and we cant kill in less than 1 attack no matter how much damage we pump into that attack. And on the frames where you do have scaling skills, they tend to need little strength investments thanks to that, like Enox, Vauban and Saryn, or frames with exalteds, where the mods on the weapon does far more than strength.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, and why would that be the only thing to allow for modding efficiency?

Because every other slot is Spoken For ?

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

We have 8 mod slots

We really don't....

Like I said.... On my Most Warframe's those Slots are already Spoken For....

Nova is not going to give up her Duration Mods... Lavos is not going to give up his Range Mods and Caliban is not going to give up his Strength Mods....

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

maxing efficiency takes 2, using 2-3 umbra (or other survival+strength mods) leaves 3-4 slots as spares, popping in primed continuity to off set fleeting takes another, now you have 2-3 slots open that can be spent on further strength, duration, range or defensive options, or a mix of them. Depending on the frame you'll likely have one dump stat you can completely ignore and at times two (hello Daynox).

What Phantom Warframe are you talking about here ? 🤔

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

With how poorly several skills scale and how frames tend to work, investing in massive strength is often pointless since you'll likely kill with weapons mostly in the end anyways.

Not everybody is doing Level Cap Runs.... They don't need to Scale.... They just have to be good enough....

 

 

[Sojufueled]

On 2022-03-23 at 6:51 AM, -Vahagn- said:

The focus rework looks good, but I am still worried that Zenurik will be most used because it gives free energy.

 

Unless they are changing how its free energy works.

As long as they keep Naramon combo decay, nothing else matters too much to my playstyle.

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Because every other slot is Spoken For ?

We really don't....

Like I said.... On my Most Warframe's those Slots are already Spoken For....

Nova is not going to give up her Duration Mods... Lavos is not going to give up his Range Mods and Caliban is not going to give up his Strength Mods....

What Phantom Warframe are you talking about here ? 🤔

Not everybody is doing Level Cap Runs.... They don't need to Scale.... They just have to be good enough....

So, you decide not to use the tools provided to you. And you line up 1 stat out of 4. There is always something you can dump. Depending on the build for Lavos you pretty much go either strength or efficiency along with range, and if you go efficiency you can slack on range because you likely play with 2 certain skills that are bound by LoS anyways and your 4 is no longer a nuke on its own. And Caliban, strength, why? You need just enough for his #4 to strip armor, which is +100% strength.

For Nova you really just want duration, so no problem there at all, even with fleeting expertise giving duration reduction all of the other mods will still allow her to cover full maps where it is needed. And her augment will make duration redundant for her #1 as soon as you hit the cap for it to grant max DR, since you'll get a charge for pretty much every target you kill.

I dont do level cap runs either, but the non scaling skills start falling off pretty early on, even with massive strength investments. I honestly cant think of a single frame that has a non-scaling skill worth using for killing post the star chart, where huge investments in strength makes a difference, aside from possibly Lavos. Volt, Spamshee and the rest of those non-scaling nukers fall off somewhere around hydron farming when it comes to their damage potential from skills. Of course exalted frames exsist, but you dont need strength on them to kill effectively, since you also have access to modding their weapons, and again, they all have dump stats if you really wanna push the strength.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So, you decide not to use the tools provided to you... 

Using the Tools provided for me is exactly why I don't Have Slots....

Don't put words in my mouth....

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Depending on the build for Lavos you pretty much go either strength or efficiency along with range, and if you go efficiency you can slack on range because you likely play with 2 certain skills that are bound by LoS anyways and your 4 is no longer a nuke on its own.

Ofcourse you can.... 

You can also go with All Bullet Jump Mods.... Or All The Shield Mods.... Maybe even the Full Vigilante and Gladiator Set

But if you want an Actually Decent Lavos Range is not Negotiable.....

What's the point in going with Efficiency if your Abilities don't have enough Range to actually Touch Enemies ?

You might aswell play Inaros if that's the case.

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And Caliban, strength, why? You need just enough for his #4 to strip armor, which is +100% strength.

200% Strength doesn't Simply Fall on to your Lap....

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

For Nova you really just want duration, so no problem there at all, even with fleeting expertise giving duration reduction all of the other mods will still allow her to cover full maps where it is needed. And her augment will make duration redundant for her #1 as soon as you hit the cap for it to grant max DR, since you'll get a charge for pretty much every target you kill.

You need full Duration to get 18 Charges.... Any less and you don't get 18 Charges.... It's that Simple.

Further more you need additional Slots so that you can Configure exactly what it is you want Molecular Prime to do....

You only get 30% Slow without Mods.... And if you're not going to bother actually modding for your Abilities then you might aswel just play Innaros.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Volt, Spamshee and the rest of those non-scaling nukers fall off somewhere around hydron farming when it comes to their damage potential from skills.

 

Well there's your Problem.... You are Focusing too much on "Nukers"....

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

but you dont need strength on them to kill effectively, since you also have access to modding their weapons, and again, they all have dump stats if you really wanna push the strength.

The base damage of those Weapons is Determined by the Strength on the Warframe and is Multiplicative to Base Damage Mods...not Addative....

I mean.... There's your Damage right there....

[SneakyErvin]

On 2022-04-06 at 10:23 PM, Lutesque said:

Using the Tools provided for me is exactly why I don't Have Slots....

Don't put words in my mouth....

Ofcourse you can.... 

You can also go with All Bullet Jump Mods.... Or All The Shield Mods.... Maybe even the Full Vigilante and Gladiator Set

But if you want an Actually Decent Lavos Range is not Negotiable.....

What's the point in going with Efficiency if your Abilities don't have enough Range to actually Touch Enemies ?

You might aswell play Inaros if that's the case.

200% Strength doesn't Simply Fall on to your Lap....

You need full Duration to get 18 Charges.... Any less and you don't get 18 Charges.... It's that Simple.

Further more you need additional Slots so that you can Configure exactly what it is you want Molecular Prime to do....

You only get 30% Slow without Mods.... And if you're not going to bother actually modding for your Abilities then you might aswel just play Innaros.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well there's your Problem.... You are Focusing too much on "Nukers"....

The base damage of those Weapons is Determined by the Strength on the Warframe and is Multiplicative to Base Damage Mods...not Addative....

I mean.... There's your Damage right there....

No, you decide to use other tools provided, but not the tools that grant you the thing you complain about.

The thing with Lavos like with every other frame with AoE you need to consider avarage map range, and preferably density. Going max range on Lavos may look fun, but there is no actual point to it. High range, yes, max range no. It really doesnt matter in the longrun for his cooldown reduction, his #3 will hit enough enemies without going for max range in the content where the density is high enough to allow him to hit enough enemies to begin with. In content with low density, a few meters wont mater since the mobs are scattered too much either way. And you certainly dont need 70m range on his #4, since that is about 20m too far beyond enemy spawn spots.

200% strength is extremely easy these days. Umbra+Umbra+Transient or if you are serious about the frame and it benefits from armor Umbra+Umbra+Umbra+Secrets.

Ah yes true for Nova, you do need Max duration for max charges. So you skip fleeting and add hatred, since you shouldnt need max efficency eitherway because you dont really have any spam abilities or constant cost on Nova. But then also, why would you worry about maxed duration if you run a slowva? They practically will never attack you in the first place.

No matter how they are calculated, you dont need the strength mods on those frames eitherway. The content is already pushover with just weapon mods in the exalteds. So you have alot of room to fit in efficiency even if you didnt also have actual dump stats on those frames. I also really fail to see how it is "focusing" on nukers, when they are simply the example where strength matters at one point. You dont need it anywhere on anyone else really since your killing will come from weapons combined with buffs and debuffs that inflate your damage to an extreme point without ever needing strength "stacking". I've been sitting there earlier with an obsession maxing strength on frames like Rhino and Chroma, well it is utterly pointless since the weapons I have already 1HK deep into steel path with a subsumed Roar providing 60-75% bonus damage. And it is pretty much the same deal with Wisp and Banshee, high stats and multipliers look awesome, but are rather pointless in reality.

[Kaotyke]

And Zenurik suffered with Nerf of Enemy Survivability.

IGN/10

[Galuf]

I'm way more concerned by the void dash rework.

[Venus-Venera]

arcane energy is still very good. this school is outdated. and popular aoe weapons replace warframe skills....

i see no solution right now!

[Ethorin]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But then also, why would you worry about maxed duration if you run a slowva?

The difference between 17 and 18 orbs is 50% DR.

 

If they hit me once at 17 and just OHKO me, if I'm at 18 then they don't kill me.

 

And all the content where a Slowva matters is content where that difference is a thing that exists.

[SneakyErvin]

38 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

The difference between 17 and 18 orbs is 50% DR.

 

If they hit me once at 17 and just OHKO me, if I'm at 18 then they don't kill me.

 

And all the content where a Slowva matters is content where that difference is a thing that exists.

The difference is 5% DR, then how much of your effective health that impacts is decided on all other things you might have going or not in the build along with what content you run and how hard the enemies hit you for.

[Ethorin]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The difference is 5% DR, then how much of your effective health that impacts is decided on all other things you might have going or not in the build along with what content you run and how hard the enemies hit you for.

90% to 95%.

At 90% you take 10% damage, at 95% you take 5%. The difference is literally 50% less damage.

 

Tis is the thing about DR, each percentage point does more than the prior point.

The difference between 1% and 2% DR is barely noticeable, 99% damage vs 98% damage, the difference between 95% and 96% DR is 20%, going from 5% damage to 4% damage.

[Monsieur_Fromage]

I'm dissapointed they've barely touched operator movement. Yes focus needed a rework, but operators also feel super clunky to play not just because of how focus is clunky. IMO they need a movement speed buff (the naramon speed boost isn't enough), and a knee slide like warframes get.

[Chaos_Renegade_Underdog]

Please DE, do not remove Heavy Attack Efficiency from Zenurik, I beg you

[5H4DE]

26 minutes ago, Chaos_Renegade_Underdog said:

Please DE, do not remove Heavy Attack Efficiency from Zenurik, I beg you

tbh, it made no sense to have that on Zenurik.

[Vahenir]

1 hour ago, Chaos_Renegade_Underdog said:

Please DE, do not remove Heavy Attack Efficiency from Zenurik, I beg you

Or at least give it back somewhere. It'd probably fit better on naramon.

[Jarriaga]

16 hours ago, Chaos_Renegade_Underdog said:

Please DE, do not remove Heavy Attack Efficiency from Zenurik, I beg you

That node should be in Naramon, not Zenurik.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

That node should be in Naramon, not Zenurik.

The only reason it was in Zenurik was because of Channeling. When it got removed, they needed to put something there that had connection to melee. And since Channeling Mods used to give Channeling Efficiency and now had Heavy Attack Efficiency...

[Jarriaga]

59 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

The only reason it was in Zenurik was because of Channeling. When it got removed, they needed to put something there that had connection to melee. And since Channeling Mods used to give Channeling Efficiency and now had Heavy Attack Efficiency...

Indeed. It was the result of leftovers from a previous system.

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Ethorin said:

90% to 95%.

At 90% you take 10% damage, at 95% you take 5%. The difference is literally 50% less damage.

 

Tis is the thing about DR, each percentage point does more than the prior point.

The difference between 1% and 2% DR is barely noticeable, 99% damage vs 98% damage, the difference between 95% and 96% DR is 20%, going from 5% damage to 4% damage.

On paper yes, it is that simple, in practice it isnt, since alot of other factors come into play aswell. The interesting part is really how it effect effective health, since that lets you know how far into content it will protect you on avarage and how much impact 5% less DR will have. That is in addition to other things, like other sources of DR that eventually result in a "cap".

[Ethorin]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

On paper yes, it is that simple, in practice it isnt, since alot of other factors come into play aswell. The interesting part is really how it effect effective health, since that lets you know how far into content it will protect you on avarage and how much impact 5% less DR will have. That is in addition to other things, like other sources of DR that eventually result in a "cap".

In practice, when running High Risk Index on Slowva, at 17 orbs I can die, at 18 I am immortal for five rounds minimum.

 

In practice, when running any content where Slowva is genuinely important, at 17 orbs I die faster than 18.

 

In practice, the difference between taking 10% damage and 5% damage is the same magnitude as the difference between 100% damage and 50% damage.

 

In practice, it is that simple.

[Sangra69]

yeah, they got rid of everything that made Zenurik focus fun....I'll continue to take my break from this game.  SMH