Removing Nekros' ability to loot void angels and thrax was a mistake.

[Phantasm100]

Gating several weapons behind running up to 40 missions to get every pinion needed is so pointless. At least before with nekros there was a chance that you would get an extra one. It wasn't even guaranteed. Preventing loot effects from applying to angels and thrax is just creating artificial difficulty when it comes to getting the pinions from the angels and the arcanes from the thrax.

[Volkeris]

Seems fine to me.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, Phantasm100 said:

Preventing loot effects from applying to angels and thrax is just creating artificial difficulty when it comes to getting the pinions from the angels and the arcanes from the thrax.

Noooo... The Eximus Rework is Artificial Difficulty....

The looting Nerfs is just your Typical Backwards Logic Nerf that we've been getting the past 4 Years....

 

You know.... Like when they Nerfed Khora and Tried to Hoodwink us by calling it a bug fix....

Or When they tried to encourage us to use Operators more by Nerfing their Armor (has since been fixed) and Making Transference Static Worse....

That's just how Warframe is designed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 hour ago, Volkeris said:

Seems fine to me.

Naturally you will have Tennos like this one who get used to being treated this way....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Volkeris]

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Naturally you will have Tennos like this one who get used to being treated this way....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why yes, I am used to not completing all the content in a single day, how could you tell?

[Lutesque]

13 minutes ago, Volkeris said:

Why yes, I am used to not completing all the content in a single day, how could you tell?

Who said anything about Completing Content ? 🤔

[(PSN)gadgaurd]

I'm with Volkeris on this one. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Don’t you know? Warframe abilities aren’t actually supposed to work on enemies. They’re just supposed to be visual stimulant for the player to feel like they’re doing something.

Edited May 4, 2022 by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301

[Skaleek]

Every time they make loot abilities not work on X they devalue the ability. So yeah. Maybe they should just get rid of extra loot abilities entirely and replace them with something more fun, since DE in the past few years has done everything in their power to make sure these abilities are not used or desired in any way.

You know when they add new resources in the game but make sure they aren't resources? Like the holokeys? More of the same.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Don’t you know? Warframe abilities aren’t actually supposed to work on enemies. They’re just supposed to be visual stimulant for the player to feel like they’re doing something.

…you might be onto something there.

[IggySnow]

Yeah at this point they might as well just get rid of loot abilities. De obviously does a lot to work around loot abilities to ensure they never work on any of the content they release. As anything you actually want is dropped from boss enemies, containers, random spawns on the map, mission rewards, etc etc etc. 

Like just rip the band-aid off already so you can stop limiting your design decisions around a mechanic you obviously don't want in the game anyways. 

[(XBOX)Skode]

On 2022-05-04 at 3:56 PM, Skaleek said:

Every time they make loot abilities not work on X they devalue the ability. So yeah. Maybe they should just get rid of extra loot abilities entirely and replace them with something more fun, since DE in the past few years has done everything in their power to make sure these abilities are not used or desired in any way.

You know when they add new resources in the game but make sure they aren't resources? Like the holokeys? More of the same.

Agreed - Desecrate literally does nothing else but loot bodies... If they don't want it looting actuality attractive plot what is point of it even existing?

[HelloItIsIJimbles]

How dare you expect the loot farm frame to work properly. YOU WILL FARM AT THE SPEED DE DESIGNED FOR YOU TO FARM AT!

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, HelloItIsIJimbles said:

How dare you expect the loot farm frame to work properly. YOU WILL FARM AT THE SPEED DE DESIGNED FOR YOU TO FARM AT!

Nekros didn't get you the weapons in a shorter time frame other than by having extra pinions that would sit there waiting to be used on standing. You can't get all the weapons without going through the syndicate ranks, which require doing the bounties, which you can kill angels while doing that, and then you're still dealing with daily time gate.

These are some of the easiest 'high mr' weapons to get since you're getting them by basically doing nothing.

This mainly impacted acquisition rate of the arcanes, but even then, they aren't only dropped.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2022-05-04 at 10:56 AM, Skaleek said:

Every time they make loot abilities not work on X they devalue the ability. So yeah. Maybe they should just get rid of extra loot abilities entirely and replace them with something more fun, since DE in the past few years has done everything in their power to make sure these abilities are not used or desired in any way.

You know when they add new resources in the game but make sure they aren't resources? Like the holokeys? More of the same.

Exaggeration. There are still people in recruit asking for specific resource farms like oxium or something. 

This is an issue of some players wanting everything on day 1 instead of day 12.

[Skaleek]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

On 2022-05-04 at 10:56 AM, Skaleek said:

 

Exaggeration. There are still people in recruit asking for specific resource farms like oxium or something. 

I disagree, I don't think its an exxageration at all, your example is oxium which was introduced in what? 2014? I haven't been able to use the utility of a lootframe since old steel essence despite new resources being added to the game. What else is there to say? I really would love for them to scrap loot abilities entirely and replace them with more interesting things.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Skaleek

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

49 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I disagree, I don't think its an exxageration at all, your example is oxium which was introduced in what? 2014? I haven't been able to use the utility of a lootframe since old steel essence despite new resources being added to the game. What else is there to say? I really would love for them to scrap loot abilities entirely and replace them with more interesting things.

The oxium was introduced in 2014....not the players. 

We both agree at least that new players enter the game after 2014.... and need resources to build frames and weapons, right? 

This means a player could have joined the game in 2021....and may need oxium now...

 

[Skaleek]

55 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The oxium was introduced in 2014....not the players. 

We both agree at least that new players enter the game after 2014.... and need resources to build frames and weapons, right? 

This means a player could have joined the game in 2021....and may need oxium now...

Yeah thats true. And what i said was also true. Every time they find a way to bypass loot abilities they devalue them and make them less useful, and they've been focused on doing just that as of late.

They've also, since the introduction of oxium, made oxium far more abundant, and enemies that drop it are scattered throughout the starmap at a higher rate than ever before, making it pretty trivial a farm, because of its passive acquisition rate. You can still totally make a nekros party to farm oxium, you're not wrong, but if a warframe ability exists solely for new players to farm a few old resources that by the time they have some mastery rank on them is trivial, well, i think you've painted yourself into a corner.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Skaleek

[MaxosDragonMage]

I think this was a positive change, and removing farming abilities (which iirc is just desecrate + some augments) should be considered. If your game is about farming and you have one very specific warframe that is just better at farming is just unhealthy - it brings to this game one of the most annoying and unfun features in Destiny 2, which is forcing certain loadouts (champions, shield types, challanges). If I'd want to go farm Zariman and Nekros could potentially double my gains it's like playing with a booster, so playing something else feels like you're wasting your time, while playing only one frame you might not even like isn't fun.

[thetdw2000]

32 minutes ago, MaxosDragonMage said:

I think this was a positive change, and removing farming abilities (which iirc is just desecrate + some augments) should be considered. If your game is about farming and you have one very specific warframe that is just better at farming is just unhealthy - it brings to this game one of the most annoying and unfun features in Destiny 2, which is forcing certain loadouts (champions, shield types, challanges). If I'd want to go farm Zariman and Nekros could potentially double my gains it's like playing with a booster, so playing something else feels like you're wasting your time, while playing only one frame you might not even like isn't fun.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Nekros is OP and makes people not want to play other frames, but if the main draw of a frame or companion is how much it amplifies your loot, you know that the game is too grindy. I mean really, outside of shadows of the dead (which is pretty weak outside of the survivability it gives) who cares about Nekros's other abilities? Something's gone seriously wrong when people pick equipment for metagame reasons rather than for the effect on gameplay it gives.

See also: smeeta kavat being the most popular companion, with the only real competition being an immortal infested cat that pukes viral procs everywhere.

[Frendh]

On 2022-05-04 at 10:09 AM, Phantasm100 said:

Gating several weapons behind running up to 40 missions to get every pinion needed is so pointless. At least before with nekros there was a chance that you would get an extra one. It wasn't even guaranteed. Preventing loot effects from applying to angels and thrax is just creating artificial difficulty when it comes to getting the pinions from the angels and the arcanes from the thrax.

If you get a pinion in all (except armageddon) the bounties you run when you farm for BPs there will be considerably less than 40 missions left to do. Even if you did not, 40 is not bad at all.

They are not "creating artificial difficulty" . You decide on a droprate then you decide on how to implement it. Now you have 100% chance of getting 1 pinion.  What they could have done instead is leave at 50% of dropping 1 pinion and making desecrate work for a 2nd chance at 54%. Then you would end up with approximately the same drops over time.

Desecrate working was most likely an oversight. I am sure they could decrease the droprate and make desecrate viable if that is what you really want.

5 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

outside of shadows of the dead (which is pretty weak outside of the survivability it gives) who cares about Nekros's other abilities?

Nekros 2 is quite good.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Frendh

[sunderthefirmament]

9 hours ago, MaxosDragonMage said:

I think this was a positive change, and removing farming abilities (which iirc is just desecrate + some augments) should be considered. If your game is about farming and you have one very specific warframe that is just better at farming is just unhealthy - it brings to this game one of the most annoying and unfun features in Destiny 2, which is forcing certain loadouts (champions, shield types, challanges). If I'd want to go farm Zariman and Nekros could potentially double my gains it's like playing with a booster, so playing something else feels like you're wasting your time, while playing only one frame you might not even like isn't fun.

I won’t say whether I agree with DE or not on this, but it does seem to fit with their nerf philosophy. One of the reasons they nerf things is if using something else means you’re doing it wrong. 
 

That said, that logic hasn’t always been applied consistently. 

[Steel_Rook]

On 2022-05-04 at 5:56 PM, Skaleek said:

Every time they make loot abilities not work on X they devalue the ability. So yeah. Maybe they should just get rid of extra loot abilities entirely and replace them with something more fun, since DE in the past few years has done everything in their power to make sure these abilities are not used or desired in any way.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but I agree. As far as I'm concerned, "bonus loot" abilities just shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Especially in a "farming simulator" like Warframe. You end up in the lose/lose situation where DE balance progression based on optimised farming at the expense of the majority of the playerbase, and yet every criticism of drop rates is met with "Oh, just bring Nekros, Khora, Ivara and Nidus." That's what happened to Toroids, if anyone remembers. Get rid of those abilities, replace them with something that's actually fun to use and rebalance rewards otherwise nerfed because of them.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2022-05-08 at 1:19 PM, Skaleek said:

Yeah thats true. And what i said was also true. Every time they find a way to bypass loot abilities they devalue them and make them less useful, and they've been focused on doing just that as of late.

They've also, since the introduction of oxium, made oxium far more abundant, and enemies that drop it are scattered throughout the starmap at a higher rate than ever before, making it pretty trivial a farm, because of its passive acquisition rate. You can still totally make a nekros party to farm oxium, you're not wrong, but if a warframe ability exists solely for new players to farm a few old resources that by the time they have some mastery rank on them is trivial, well, i think you've painted yourself into a corner.

Fortunately it doesn't exist solely for new players. The oxium was an example. There are many other uses, used by old and new players.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but I agree. As far as I'm concerned, "bonus loot" abilities just shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Especially in a "farming simulator" like Warframe. You end up in the lose/lose situation where DE balance progression based on optimised farming at the expense of the majority of the playerbase, and yet every criticism of drop rates is met with "Oh, just bring Nekros, Khora, Ivara and Nidus." That's what happened to Toroids, if anyone remembers. Get rid of those abilities, replace them with something that's actually fun to use and rebalance rewards otherwise nerfed because of them.

We don't really know if the "majority" of the playerbase are the impatient people upset that can't rush a relatively new farm.

Zariman weapons are really easy to acquire for how powerful they are.

[thetdw2000]

6 hours ago, Frendh said:

Nekros 2 is quite good.

On other frames. Nekros can't really capitalize on the now armor-stripped enemies since his base kit doesn't have any real damage abilities. It's also still bad without the augment in situations where you're actually trying to kill enemies since it makes them run away. It basically forces you to bring AOE nuke weapons or subsume something to actually make it work without the augment. That's before mentioning the enemy cap.