Dog days afk-ers.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb PollexMessier:

I feel the same way about scripts even. If a part of the game is just THAT agonizingly grindy, repetitive, and easy, that you can literally set your computer on a pre determined set of instructions to play the game for you and be confident that it's not gonna fail, and would want to go through the effort of doing that because it's just that bad. Maybe people should just be allowed to do that (Or maybe the game shouldn't be that way to begin with). Again, it's only a benefit to the devs to have higher play time numbers. As long as players aren't doing it in public mode. It's not ruining the game for anyone else unless the devs are stupid enough to balance the game around those players.

Yes. it also makes no traffic. maybe it's the plat selling. they only care about the money.

It's not up to the players in my opinion. there are many old multiplayer games without loot and they are still actively played. because it's fun.
I am against punishment. designers clearly failed here and negative points were written down too often.

and with afk i never had problems in warframe. because there is hardly any content for afk people and the reward there is miserable. early people camped afk in defence. this is more than strange in my opinion. and I didn't see any bots for warframe either. especially why when it comes to accounts from 2013/2014.
if players do any nonsense, i leave the game immediately. in warframe the games are extremely short.

[RazerXPrime]

On 2022-06-11 at 11:36 AM, (PSN)N7_Dredgen said:

Every year they patch an AFK for Dog Days.  Every year a new one happens.  Maybe... just maybe... the issue isn't people that AFK, but the actual horrid design of this event that makes a huge amount of people want to do so? 

You literally need 7000 pearls to buy each thing atleast once... with AFK that is 50 every 5 min, so 140 runs of 5 mins.... = ~12 HOURS.  (You can add atleast 1-2 hours for time spent between missions, waiting for the results screen, listening to De Thayme go off....).  

Actively playing will generally earn maybe ~15 pearls per match, we'll call it ~30% more... so basically even actively playing, you can only lower this grind down to 8 hours (+~2)....

8 to 10 hours of actively playing a game mod that stops being fun after the first handful of runs because absolutely every mechanic involved is terrible. 

Granted people should AFK solo.... but I think the inherent problem is that the event is not only unfun to play, but horribly unbalanced. 

I would argue the mode itself could be tolerable, the main issue is that the Soaktron is an absolute POS without trying to stack stick your way around DE not wanting modded equipment in it.  Hit detection should be much higher.  Projectile Velocity should be higher.  There should be more times between pumps.  The pumps should use the reload, not secondary fire.  Maybe if they actually fixed the gun everybody is forced to use, it wouldn't be so bad.  The Soaktron functions like a flaccid 99 year old man trying to perform.   

The very act of fixing the soaktron would make us able to kill faster, earn pearls faster, and people wouldn't be frustrated a.f. playing a game mode that feels like it was purposely developed to feel wanky.   It feels bad when 99% of my shots don't hit and it's hard to discern why.

Dog Days is not engaging gameplay... that's why anybody in their right mind doesn't actually play it.  


 

But you don't need to buy everything in one go right? Just get what you like. This is my third or fourth dog days. Can't remember. I never farmed for anything more than the 200 base except maybe the first time I did the event and I own all the important stuff from the pearl store.

I mean what is in there that you cannot do without?

15 pearls per match? Lol. No way. If you play half decent you will get 2-3 times that.

How is anyone frustrated with this event. It's super simple and easy to play. You just need to get used to how the gun works. Oh my it's not a big badaboom AoE instaclear map gun. Oh no. Lol. Git gud.

[PollexMessier]

7 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

How is anyone frustrated with this event. It's super simple and easy to play. You just need to get used to how the gun works. Oh my it's not a big badaboom AoE instaclear map gun. Oh no. Lol. Git gud.

If I can be firing straight at an enemy running directly towards me with full pressure, or literally touching the barrel of the gun to an enemy, and not hit them, there's a serious problem with the gun.

Another issue with it tho is that it's just incredibly difficult to see what the speed and arc of the projectile is. You have next to no visual feedback for it to adjust on. You just have to blindly lead your shot until you get a hit without knowing if the arc of the projectile is even reaching your target. and for all you know the hit you got was from a projectile you fired 3 shots prior. You kindof just have to hold the trigger and wave your gun vaguely in the direction of where an enemy is going to be and pray you land a shot.

A real life water gun from the dollar store is more accurate and responsive than this.

Meanwhile enemies can repeatedly hit you with pinpoint accuracy from 20 meters away. I think the enemy difficulty is actually in a good spot but it just emphasizes even more how ridiculously unreliable the player's gun is.

[RazerXPrime]

2 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

If I can be firing straight at an enemy running directly towards me with full pressure, or literally touching the barrel of the gun to an enemy, and not hit them, there's a serious problem with the gun.

Another issue with it tho is that it's just incredibly difficult to see what the speed and arc of the projectile is. You have next to no visual feedback for it to adjust on. You just have to blindly lead your shot until you get a hit without knowing if the arc of the projectile is even reaching your target. and for all you know the hit you got was from a projectile you fired 3 shots prior. You kindof just have to hold the trigger and wave your gun vaguely in the direction of where an enemy is going to be and pray you land a shot.

A real life water gun from the dollar store is more accurate and responsive than this.

Meanwhile enemies can repeatedly hit you with pinpoint accuracy from 20 meters away. I think the enemy difficulty is actually in a good spot but it just emphasizes even more how ridiculously unreliable the player's gun is.

You need to get used to the gun and how it arcs at different levels of charge. You can easily get consecutive headshots if you do it right. If you fire it like any other gun of course it's not going to work.

And 20m away pinpoint accurate. Bs. If you move they don't hit you. Thing is the waterguns, yours and theirs, have travel time and max range. If you move backwards you 1. extend your range and 2 increase distance for their water bullets to travel. It's exactly the same as it was in the ancient game Mechwarrior on the SNES. You could kill enemies with SRM (short range missiles) and not get hit by LRMs (Long Range Missiles) by just walking away from the enemy.

[Numerikuu]

12 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I think a great way to deal with this, and fix another major issue with the event at the same time, would be to have it so every player that damages an enemy gets a pearl when that enemy "dies", not JUST the person that gets the kill shot. Way more pearls for actively playing, no more kill stealing.

Some people might hate that it would do this, but this would encourage players to deliberately try to hit as many enemies as they can instead of prioritizing kills, and only try to kill enemies that already had damage when you started shooting at them, which I think would make the mode a little more dynamic and interesting.
Shift it from being "be as selfish as possible for the best reward" to "your whole team is more rewarded the more cooperative you are"

As long as it's made very clear in game that that's how it works and it's not buried in an hour and a half long devstream or a 3 paragraph long forum post that only 10% of the playerbase at most know about.

This. The fact that you can kill steal on top makes this event that much more worse imo.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb PollexMessier:

If I can be firing straight at an enemy running directly towards me with full pressure, or literally touching the barrel of the gun to an enemy, and not hit them, there's a serious problem with the gun.

Another issue with it tho is that it's just incredibly difficult to see what the speed and arc of the projectile is. You have next to no visual feedback for it to adjust on. You just have to blindly lead your shot until you get a hit without knowing if the arc of the projectile is even reaching your target. and for all you know the hit you got was from a projectile you fired 3 shots prior. You kindof just have to hold the trigger and wave your gun vaguely in the direction of where an enemy is going to be and pray you land a shot.

A real life water gun from the dollar store is more accurate and responsive than this.

Meanwhile enemies can repeatedly hit you with pinpoint accuracy from 20 meters away. I think the enemy difficulty is actually in a good spot but it just emphasizes even more how ridiculously unreliable the player's gun is.

enemies also have aimbot. and I can't even aim properly because crosshair is rubbish.
and i often need headshots, because without cover you fight mostly against 2-4 at the same time.

so..........

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

9 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

How is anyone frustrated with this event. It's super simple and easy to play. You just need to get used to how the gun works. Oh my it's not a big badaboom AoE instaclear map gun. Oh no. Lol. Git gud.

Nah the gun just sucks and the reticle takes up half my line of sight... also doesn't help if you are console player you have to click your analogs to pump the gun which may be the most obtuse and stupid mechanic conceived.  They use our aiming stick... imagine having to press down on the stick you're also supposed to look around with (Spoiler alert: It makes using the gun x100000 more difficult when you have to give up looking around to pump your gun).  This event SUCKS because of the gun.  

It's more than "git gud" issues if people complain about it and try to do everything in their power not to do it year after year.  

[RazerXPrime]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)N7_Dredgen said:

Nah the gun just sucks and the reticle takes up half my line of sight... also doesn't help if you are console player you have to click your analogs to pump the gun which may be the most obtuse and stupid mechanic conceived.  They use our aiming stick... imagine having to press down on the stick you're also supposed to look around with (Spoiler alert: It makes using the gun x100000 more difficult when you have to give up looking around to pump your gun).  This event SUCKS because of the gun.  

It's more than "git gud" issues if people complain about it and try to do everything in their power not to do it year after year.  

I dunno. I use a controller too. Sure it took a bit to get used to the mechanics, but it's defnitely not as bad as what you make it out to be. I hardly ever die and get decent score. Easier with multiple people of course.

[Gamma745]

On 2022-06-11 at 6:56 PM, Slayer-. said:

Nothings changed from all the previous times I've done it, well except the increase of Pearls halfway through the very first one, wish I played it later into that one. *sigh*

The roll still feels the same, I see it's been mentioned.

The big problem is PLAYERS have to engage their brain to remember to pump the Water Gun (even though we have a prompt) and aim at the enemies and while strafing lead the target a little, I guess some players need to think harder than their normal playstyle for some AEO weapons. 

Just my little addition to this POV, what I find even more ridiculous is the fact that Dog Days is just Warframe getting stripped down to its most basic and core mechanics. Just run, bullet jump, shoot. It even has projectile-based bullets for everyone (something I think some people asked to apply to every if not most weapons in the game). And yet, people actually complained about it being boring despite it's most likely the closest thing to a "balanced" gameplay some people kept demanding.

[PollexMessier]

5 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

You need to get used to the gun and how it arcs at different levels of charge. You can easily get consecutive headshots if you do it right. If you fire it like any other gun of course it's not going to work.

Not even being able to hit an enemy point blank often, isn't a skill issue. With it doing that I have to imagine that something about the gun is just so jank that hits don't even register half the time. Or the accuracy debuff of having the gun partially charged is so bad that the projectile can literally fire out of the gun and a 90 degree angle. There's something wrong with it more than just the arc and travel time.

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

Am 11.6.2022 um 11:36 schrieb (PSN)N7_Dredgen:

Every year they patch an AFK for Dog Days.  Every year a new one happens.  Maybe... just maybe... the issue isn't people that AFK, but the actual horrid design of this event that makes a huge amount of people want to do so? 

You literally need 7000 pearls to buy each thing atleast once... with AFK that is 50 every 5 min, so 140 runs of 5 mins.... = ~12 HOURS.  (You can add atleast 1-2 hours for time spent between missions, waiting for the results screen, listening to De Thayme go off....).  

Actively playing will generally earn maybe ~15 pearls per match, we'll call it ~30% more... so basically even actively playing, you can only lower this grind down to 8 hours (+~2)....

8 to 10 hours of actively playing a game mod that stops being fun after the first handful of runs because absolutely every mechanic involved is terrible. 

Granted people should AFK solo.... but I think the inherent problem is that the event is not only unfun to play, but horribly unbalanced. 

I would argue the mode itself could be tolerable, the main issue is that the Soaktron is an absolute POS without trying to stack stick your way around DE not wanting modded equipment in it.  Hit detection should be much higher.  Projectile Velocity should be higher.  There should be more times between pumps.  The pumps should use the reload, not secondary fire.  Maybe if they actually fixed the gun everybody is forced to use, it wouldn't be so bad.  The Soaktron functions like a flaccid 99 year old man trying to perform.   

The very act of fixing the soaktron would make us able to kill faster, earn pearls faster, and people wouldn't be frustrated a.f. playing a game mode that feels like it was purposely developed to feel wanky.   It feels bad when 99% of my shots don't hit and it's hard to discern why.

Dog Days is not engaging gameplay... that's why anybody in their right mind doesn't actually play it.  


 

Couldn't have put it better myself. The Soaktron's performance is absolutely horrible and completely kills any fun in this game mode. You actually have no clue, where your shots are going and combined with "crab walking" enemies, that constantly run sideways, well, it's simply rage inducing. Also DE, why can't we have the swim ring Ephemera permanently? All those Eros wings are way more disturbing for other players, but those are permanent... My Yareli still needs this badly (Fishes are NO proper replacement)...

[RazerXPrime]

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Not even being able to hit an enemy point blank often, isn't a skill issue. With it doing that I have to imagine that something about the gun is just so jank that hits don't even register half the time. Or the accuracy debuff of having the gun partially charged is so bad that the projectile can literally fire out of the gun and a 90 degree angle. There's something wrong with it more than just the arc and travel time.

Don't know what to say. The mode is just different. But it's not broken. If you practice you can reliably hit enemies. Guess people are just lazy and too used to blowing S#&$ up without having to aim.

[RazerXPrime]

Funny that the censorship system actually makes my comment look worse than it is.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

4 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Don't know what to say. The mode is just different. But it's not broken. If you practice you can reliably hit enemies. Guess people are just lazy and too used to blowing S#&$ up without having to aim.

See you keep acting like people crutch on AoE weapons and can't aim... completely forgoing that the aiming on the Soaktron is non-standard aiming.  It requires target leading, and knowing where your shots will land is not always easy when the distance the projectile travels and at which speed is dynamic and changing (not to mention certain units with meth-tier sidestepping).   It also really doesn't help, as mentioned before, you can't even see your own projectile because of the oversized reticle.  If you miss a shot god help you because you just lost your range and now, if using controller, have to give up aiming to reload... pick a random direction and hold movement and hope you don't run into a 360 aimbot behind you when you can't turn your camera because you're too busy using your camera stick to pump.   Hey maybe you can dodge roll at molasses speed since apparently we can't even have a functional dodge option.  

If it was as easy as aiming standard, you would find alot of people not complaining.  

Look, we get it - you think you're the greatest thing since sliced bread.  A god amongst men who has the precision to wipe out an entire battalion without missing a shot.   But I think the fact remains the gun is not fun for many people, it's very clear by community sentiment for 3 years now... a huge amount of people don't like this event, and it's not skill issues.  There is a compounding of issues surrounding the gun that makes this blatantly not fun.  If you are the 1 in 100 who likes it... congrats, but stop acting like you're more skilled than everybody else.  The gun has a slew of functional deficits that could be improved upon to make the event more fun for more people.  A community event in a game shouldn't be unfun for a huge portion of people. 

You could fix every issue I mentioned and it would still require skill and target leading... it just wouldn't be a needlessly obtuse pain in the arse.  I shouldn't have to fight the controls and UI to try and play.    

[RazerXPrime]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)N7_Dredgen said:

See you keep acting like people crutch on AoE weapons and can't aim... completely forgoing that the aiming on the Soaktron is non-standard aiming.  It requires target leading, and knowing where your shots will land is not always easy when the distance the projectile travels is dynamic and changing (not to mention certain units with meth-tier sidestepping).   It also really doesn't help, as mentioned before, you can't even see your own projectile because of the oversized reticle.  If you miss a shot god help you because you just lost your range and now, if using controller, have to give up aiming to reload... pick a random direction and hold movement and hope you don't run into a 360 aimbot behind you when you can't turn your camera because you're too busy using your camera stick to pump.   Hey maybe you can dodge roll at molasses speed since apparently we can't even have a functional dodge option.  

If it was as easy as aiming standard, you would find alot of people not complaining.  

Look, we get it - you think you're the greatest thing since sliced bread.  A god amongst men who has the precision to wipe out an entire battalion without missing a shot.   But I think the fact remains the gun is not fun for many people, it's very clear by community sentiment for 3 years now... a huge amount of people don't like this event, and it's not skill issues.  There is a compounding of issues surrounding the gun that makes this blatantly not fun.  If you are the 1 in 100 who likes it... congrats, but stop acting like you're more skilled than everybody else.  The gun has a slew of functional deficits that could be improved upon to make the event more fun for more people.  A community event in a game shouldn't be unfun for a huge portion of people.

Lol ok attack me if it makes you feel better. It took me a good amount of practicing to get the hang of this gun. It's not a standard gun. It has its quirks, but it's by no means impossible or really hard to pull off. The game has bows which more or less function the same way. In fact there's many guns that have arcing projectiles. You just need some practice. So maybe try that instead of trying to insult me.

The gun is quite easy to understand. It shoots. And when full arcs a certain distance. When it empties at specific stages it shoots less far, which you can resolve by pumping the gun. Is it empty? You recharge. A slew of functional deficits? Well of course you'd say that. You're one angry individual. Geezus.

Do I think the mode or gun is fun? Not really if it was for extended use. But it's a nice change of pace from all the mundane things we already have in the game. So for a few tries I'll play the mode.

But go on. Huge portion of people. Slew of deficits. Compunding issues. Many people. Huge amount of people. Well damn, it must be the worst thing that ever happened to you. And also to these imaginary large group of people.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I'm in this event for the pearls

so I don't care if AFKers want to just idle and not get any bonus

 

what does bother me though, is that they are constantly dying and being respawned a the edge of the map

which screws up the Enemy pathfinding and draws them over there, thus wasting my time having to hunt them down

 

I'd rather DE put the tree AFK spots back so these AFKers can just do their thing without affecting me

or do something like have no auto-respawn, so they just stay dead if AFK.

[RazerXPrime]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I'm in this event for the pearls

so I don't care if AFKers want to just idle and not get any bonus

 

what does bother me though, is that they are constantly dying and being respawned a the edge of the map

which screws up the Enemy pathfinding and draws them over there, thus wasting my time having to hunt them down

 

I'd rather DE put the tree AFK spots back so these AFKers can just do their thing without affecting me

or do something like have no auto-respawn, so they just stay dead if AFK.

Do these AFKers not move? Or do they just walk around a bit? You'd think the Anti AFK system picks up on people standing still. I don't play this mode with pubs so I cannot speak from experience on that. Just wondering.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

4 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Do these AFKers not move? Or do they just walk around a bit? You'd think the Anti AFK system picks up on people standing still. I don't play this mode with pubs so I cannot speak from experience on that. Just wondering.

I'm on PS4 so, they simply Don't Move, true AFK

on PC, where botscripts are a thing, this may not be the same case (ie, always run forward, or random shuffle scripts)

[Kaotyke]

I get around 70-80 pearls per run when I do this Solo, I stand in one of the corners and shoot when they are running my way.

Garesh is the funniest to have with how fast he can run and he comes in a straight line.

Its basically Cooler VS Vegeta.

He is quiet persistent.

[RazerXPrime]

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

I get around 70-80 pearls per run when I do this Solo, I stand in one of the corners and shoot when they are running my way.

Garesh is the funniest to have with how fast he can run and he comes in a straight line.

Its basically Cooler VS Vegeta.

He is quiet persistent.

Lol, that's priceless. Some of them strafe though. There's this one with a rice hat I think. He can be quite annoying. But they do walk towards you in a straight line if they're far away enough. I tend to be in the water area so I don't stand where they spawn or get caught from behind.

[Kaotyke]

16 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Lol, that's priceless. Some of them strafe though. There's this one with a rice hat I think. He can be quite annoying. But they do walk towards you in a straight line if they're far away enough. I tend to be in the water area so I don't stand where they spawn or get caught from behind.

They strafe when they get close enough. Otherwise they come in a straight line. You have to aim up a bit for the projectile to arc and hit.

[(PSN)Unstar]

I question whether this is really an issue.  A common enough strategy that I see in public games is that players play until their team is ahead and then go sit someplace where the enemies can't get them.  This seems like a valid enough way to play the game, because the game doesn't end faster if they get more kills, and if they're not good at Dog Days (as many players aren't) continuing to engage in combat after securing the lead risks contributing towards losing the match.

In addition, it's notable that the scoreboard doesn't track assists, so it only shows who got the killing blow, which is not the same as a breakdown of who contributed towards kills.  Plus, the scoreboard shows that the Executioners got 1 kill, but one player on your team died 3 times...so maybe don't put too much faith in the accuracy of the scoreboard.

[RazerXPrime]

53 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

They strafe when they get close enough. Otherwise they come in a straight line. You have to aim up a bit for the projectile to arc and hit.

I know. It's just that this one dude seems really keen on strafing. Much more than others.

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I question whether this is really an issue.  A common enough strategy that I see in public games is that players play until their team is ahead and then go sit someplace where the enemies can't get them.  This seems like a valid enough way to play the game, because the game doesn't end faster if they get more kills, and if they're not good at Dog Days (as many players aren't) continuing to engage in combat after securing the lead risks contributing towards losing the match.

In addition, it's notable that the scoreboard doesn't track assists, so it only shows who got the killing blow, which is not the same as a breakdown of who contributed towards kills.  Plus, the scoreboard shows that the Executioners got 1 kill, but one player on your team died 3 times...so maybe don't put too much faith in the accuracy of the scoreboard.

But don't you get pearls by killing enemies. Just sitting there doing nothing seems an inefficient spending of time.

[(PSN)Unstar]

23 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

But don't you get pearls by killing enemies. Just sitting there doing nothing seems an inefficient spending of time.

They're not doing nothing, though: they're doing something they enjoy like watching videos, playing phone games, etc, as opposed to actively engaging in the moment-to-moment gameplay of Dog Days which they find aggravating.

Let's say it takes 30 seconds to get into Dog Days, get a single kill (which is enough to win if they can't kill you back), and then go stand in safe spot.  That leaves 4:30+ where you can put down the controller and do something fun.  So on a 5-minute cooldown, 30 seconds of effort nets you the 50 Pearls you get for being on the winning team when the match ends.

However, if you try to play the game and get Pearls, you'll get them much slower than a rate of 100 per minute.  If I try when I play Dog Days, I get around 12 extra Pearls per match.  So we have two options:

• 30 seconds of playing (then stopping to do something fun) gives 50 pearls.
• 300 seconds of playing gives 62 pearls.

The 2nd option will technically get you finished sooner, but it requires that the amount of effort expended be multiplied, all for what ends up being a fairly trivial increase in rewards.  For people who dislike Dog Days and want to make the most of every moment they spend on earth, not killing enemies provides the better payout.

[sunderthefirmament]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)Kuhl MC said:

Couldn't have put it better myself. The Soaktron's performance is absolutely horrible and completely kills any fun in this game mode. You actually have no clue, where your shots are going and combined with "crab walking" enemies, that constantly run sideways, well, it's simply rage inducing.

I've been playing shooter games for around 26 years.  I cannot think of a single gun in any video game ever that feels worse to use than the soaktron.