The impact AoE nerf could have

[Sylonus]

Let me start by saying I love Warframe, but it has never, and will never, be so balanced that all of your arsenal will legitimately be an option, if it was, it would not be a very fun game. If they hurt AoE weapons to the point where they're no longer effective or fun, we'll simply return to the melee meta, if they nerf melee again, suddenly it will be the headshot Gas/Electric meta, rinse repeat. If they actually nerf all the viable quick multikill options, most of the gameplay in this game will be painfully unfun.

All they're doing, and keep doing is removing options, further refining the meta into smaller and smaller effective groups, if they actually do get things to a point where there's a semblance of balance by nerfing larger and larger groups of things, only the things that slip through the cracks will be used, and once those are shored up, there will be no fun left to be had.

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb Sylonus:

Let me start by saying I love Warframe, but it has never, and will never, be so balanced that all of your arsenal will legitimately be an option, if it was, it would not be a very fun game. If they hurt AoE weapons to the point where they're no longer effective or fun, we'll simply return to the melee meta, if they nerf melee again, suddenly it will be the headshot Gas/Electric meta, rinse repeat. If they actually nerf all the viable quick multikill options, most of the gameplay in this game will be painfully unfun.

All they're doing, and keep doing is removing options, further refining the meta into smaller and smaller effective groups, if they actually do get things to a point where there's a semblance of balance by nerfing larger and larger groups of things, only the things that slip through the cracks will be used, and once those are shored up, there will be no fun left to be had.

I don't think so either. the balance would mean very complex calculation and consideration of all factors.
you need a first class brain for that. But such people are paid very well and work in top companies...

but i was hoping at least that devs would understand primitive operations. and will not design garbage. and that is exactly not the case when i look at recent weapons/warframes....
It's not for nothing that there are terms like "mastery fodder"...

and i've been playing since 2013. there were top players here with first-class suggestions. EVERYTHING was ignored... and the boys gave up... well...
and now they hope to lure beginners with soulframe. there they do the same nonsense.

[KiteForest_2035]

17 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

rubbish , you can still finish steel path suvival with single target weapons ,

if you want to just sit in a corner then it is unlikely to happen.

I wonder what on earth caused you to speak so rudely,and this week's Night Wave mission has 20 enemies killed in 5 seconds,I expect you to shoot 20 heads in five seconds with a single target weapon

[CMBDIs]

Well as the Monke using subsumed gloom and a Nukor, I can say I'm sadden by ANY nerf news.  The assumption that monke and his twin are OP is just not true for every player.  I wish monke was even stronger.  But the notion that the twin is overplayed is just silly.  Ever since I subsumed gloom, the only time I use the twin is to help with acolytes or my level 5 liches.  And even that is not enough in solo and I have to team anyway.  I just don't know what all the hype is about.  If I use gloom it works much better than twin generally speaking.

The real issue is that there are A LOT of ways to make OP frames.  Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.  And I see NO need for any nerf in a PVE game.  I agree with the first poster that said if you think anything is OP...go modless.  Go arcane-less.  Go galvanized-less.  Go with only one weapon.  Forma yourself back to zero..even better subsume the frame and build a zero forma version and then whine about it.

If they nerf Monke and his twin...that's fine...I'll just reasearch the next meta frame, watch the youtube build guides and be on my way with another OP frame.

But here's the thing...if I like playing Monke, with Kuva Nukor, and subsumed gloom...but still can't solo steel path...what's the issue?

[0_The_F00l]

3 hours ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

I wonder what on earth caused you to speak so rudely,and this week's Night Wave mission has 20 enemies killed in 5 seconds,I expect you to shoot 20 heads in five seconds with a single target weapon

Making false claims and building strawman arguments is what makes me state the facts , if that sounds rude to you then so be it.

I will call out rubbish when I see it as rubbish.

And 20 enemies in 5 seconds , let me see ... Nope does not say they need to be headshots , can easily be body shots. And why even bring this up ? 

It's not my fault you can't use your imagination and your gear to the fullest to achieve the objectives.

 

P.s.

Just to put my money where my mouth is:

 

[CMBDIs]

13 minutes ago, CMBDIs said:

Well as the Monke using subsumed gloom and a Nukor, I can say I'm sadden by ANY nerf news.  The assumption that monke and his twin are OP is just not true for every player.  I wish monke was even stronger.  But the notion that the twin is overplayed is just silly.  Ever since I subsumed gloom, the only time I use the twin is to help with acolytes or my level 5 liches.  And even that is not enough in solo and I have to team anyway.  I just don't know what all the hype is about.  If I use gloom it works much better than twin generally speaking.

The real issue is that there are A LOT of ways to make OP frames.  Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.  And I see NO need for any nerf in a PVE game.  I agree with the first poster that said if you think anything is OP...go modless.  Go arcane-less.  Go galvanized-less.  Go with only one weapon.  Forma yourself back to zero..even better subsume the frame and build a zero forma version and then whine about it.

If they nerf Monke and his twin...that's fine...I'll just reasearch the next meta frame, watch the youtube build guides and be on my way with another OP frame.

But here's the thing...if I like playing Monke, with Kuva Nukor, and subsumed gloom...but still can't solo steel path...what's the issue?

If the issue is being raised by players that have played out the game to MR diamond 2 ...meaning they have all mods, all arcanes , all weapons, all frames, all galvanzed mods, all special mods, all ephemera's, all syandana's...  Well maybe it is time to hang it up.

[octobotimus]

Yeah All I know is the nerfs coming make the game less fun to play for someone like me who repeats an insane amount of missions because I need to, not because I want to. I don't want a challenge, because I'd play solo/high ranking missions, or even a completely different game for that. I just want to relax and get the things I need in a quick fashion. 

[Jonny5Stacks]

16 minutes ago, octobotimus said:

Yeah All I know is the nerfs coming make the game less fun to play for someone like me who repeats an insane amount of missions because I need to, not because I want to. I don't want a challenge, because I'd play solo/high ranking missions, or even a completely different game for that. I just want to relax and get the things I need in a quick fashion. 

Then why play the game at all?  Its literally the whole point.  If you don't like it pay to skip it.

[octobotimus]

32 minutes ago, Jonny5Stacks said:

Then why play the game at all?  Its literally the whole point.  If you don't like it pay to skip it.

I enjoy the combat, visuals, designs, and story. I just have no interest in making the game boring on purpose for me. Like how is making me take out enemies one at a time fun when running like 20 relic missions? 

35 minutes ago, Jonny5Stacks said:

Its literally the whole point.

The whole point of Warframe is making the game less fun?

[Jonny5Stacks]

1 minute ago, octobotimus said:

I enjoy the combat, visuals, designs, and story. I just have no interest in making the game boring on purpose for me. Like how is making me take out enemies one at a time fun when running like 20 relic missions? 

The whole point of Warframe is making the game less fun?

Then quit I could care less.  I think its fun.

[octobotimus]

44 minutes ago, Jonny5Stacks said:

Then quit I could care less.  I think its fun.

Yes, amazing solution to all problems. 

[PublikDomain]

50 minutes ago, octobotimus said:

I enjoy the combat, visuals, designs, and story. I just have no interest in making the game boring on purpose for me. Like how is making me take out enemies one at a time fun when running like 20 relic missions? 

Because engaging with enemies is how you fight them? That's the combat, isn't it? There's not much combat to enjoy when all the enemies in the room die instantly because your teammate wants to go speedy-mc-run-to-extraction and focus on the mission rewards instead of the gameplay.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, octobotimus said:

I enjoy the combat, visuals, designs, and story. I just have no interest in making the game boring on purpose for me. Like how is making me take out enemies one at a time fun when running like 20 relic missions? 

The whole point of Warframe is making the game less fun?

This statement is full of inconsistencies 

If you really enjoy the visuals , designs and story , nothing is changing for you.

The combat is also largely unchanged except for specific outlier weapons and that too in a very minor capacity.

I would argue having to blow up enemies without even seeing them is what is boring.

So you are already making the game boring for yourself.

And no one is asking you to run 20 relic missions , it's also not part of the things you actually enjoy , so why do it ? It's just loot.

And the whole point of warframe is to be a game , and fun is always subjective. 

[octobotimus]

19 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This statement is full of inconsistencies 

If you really enjoy the visuals , designs and story , nothing is changing for you.

The combat is also largely unchanged except for specific outlier weapons and that too in a very minor capacity.

I would argue having to blow up enemies without even seeing them is what is boring.

So you are already making the game boring for yourself.

And no one is asking you to run 20 relic missions , it's also not part of the things you actually enjoy , so why do it ? It's just loot.

And the whole point of warframe is to be a game , and fun is always subjective. 

I mean when baro comes around I definitely need to, especially when I like the cosmetics he brings.

Idk why so many find it hard to get, People can find enjoyment in different ways. You even said that Fun is subjective but then act like it isn't.  I enjoy Warframe's combat and visuals from different aspects, and really enjoy when I can mow down hoards of enemies with these ridiculous weapons we are given. I like playing the game to chill as its ultimately a PvE game and is more mindless than other games for me while still having all the cool designs and visual bonuses. 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, octobotimus said:

I mean when baro comes around I definitely need to, especially when I like the cosmetics he brings.

No you don't , that's just fomo , you can also very easily stockpile them beforehand ,over a much slower pace. It's your own choice to do that or not.

You are confusing the actual thing with the means of acquiring it.

1 hour ago, octobotimus said:

Idk why so many find it hard to get, People can find enjoyment in different ways. You even said that Fun is subjective but then act like it isn't.

Not true , i was talking about what you find enjoyable, loot collection is not on the list that you mentioned . 

It only came up after i highlighted it.

1 hour ago, octobotimus said:

I enjoy Warframe's combat and visuals from different aspects, and really enjoy when I can mow down hoards of enemies with these ridiculous weapons we are given. I like playing the game to chill as its ultimately a PvE game and is more mindless than other games for me while still having all the cool designs and visual bonuses. 

And you can still do that. Maybe not as mindlessly perhaps.

[Dunkelheit]

Am 28.8.2022 um 13:21 schrieb Sylonus:

Let me start by saying I love Warframe, but it has never, and will never, be so balanced that all of your arsenal will legitimately be an option, if it was, it would not be a very fun game. If they hurt AoE weapons to the point where they're no longer effective or fun, we'll simply return to the melee meta, if they nerf melee again, suddenly it will be the headshot Gas/Electric meta, rinse repeat. If they actually nerf all the viable quick multikill options, most of the gameplay in this game will be painfully unfun.

All they're doing, and keep doing is removing options, further refining the meta into smaller and smaller effective groups, if they actually do get things to a point where there's a semblance of balance by nerfing larger and larger groups of things, only the things that slip through the cracks will be used, and once those are shored up, there will be no fun left to be had.

You are kinda right. But let us think of an imaginary powerlevel: If Gas is lvl 5, melee is 6, AOE is 25. I don't care about being apart one point. I use Soma Prime from time to time, I use Kuva Karak and others that are far from being Meta. But the very second you have someone with AOE Bramma/Zarr in the game, I would not get more than a couple of kills.

If you don't believe me, pick whatever in Steel Path and I show you how oppresive the meta is.

[octobotimus]

10 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And you can still do that. Maybe not as mindlessly perhaps.

exactly why the nerfs annoy me. Because like I said, a portion of the fun I get out of this game is how it doesn't need my full attention constantly. 

[pinkxblack]

simple, treat every single quests as GRENDEL mission, come play your new DARK SOULS game!

[0_The_F00l]

6 hours ago, octobotimus said:

exactly why the nerfs annoy me. Because like I said, a portion of the fun I get out of this game is how it doesn't need my full attention constantly. 

Can you elaborate how much attention you do need , cause we seem to keep pushing the goal post of what you actually want from the game.

[Jarriaga]

On 2022-08-28 at 3:15 AM, KiteForest_2035 said:

cannot guarantee survival

"Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson, lead designer for Civilization IV.

Why must survival be guaranteed? Why do so many WF players consciously default to removing any semblance of engagement by approaching the game as an absent-minded puzzle to automate with zero opposition? There is no catharsis or pathos in playing the game like that. Is the desire to win at all costs really worth killing the game for yourself long-term? It's a soulless self-fulfilling prophecy at best.

You are precisely the type of player Johnson was referring to when he said developers must protect players from themselves.

[p_silveira]

8 hours ago, octobotimus said:

exactly why the nerfs annoy me. Because like I said, a portion of the fun I get out of this game is how it doesn't need my full attention constantly. 

I mean, good for you if you enjoy that, but isn't something like mobile Cookie Clicker a better candidate for that type of gameplay than Warframe?

[Dunkelheit]

Am 29.8.2022 um 05:38 schrieb 0_The_F00l:

Making false claims and building strawman arguments is what makes me state the facts , if that sounds rude to you then so be it.

I will call out rubbish when I see it as rubbish.

And 20 enemies in 5 seconds , let me see ... Nope does not say they need to be headshots , can easily be body shots. And why even bring this up ? 

It's not my fault you can't use your imagination and your gear to the fullest to achieve the objectives.

 

P.s.

Just to put my money where my mouth is:

 

Well done, bonus points for using my fav frame Nezha :)

[Monolake]

SteelPath survival  (the mission type) is very stingy on LifeSupport thus requiring insanely high killrate  - so it unfairly punishes those who use single-target weapons alone.  I would suggest bumping up LS drops in SP survival just a bit, like 10%, or maybe even have a higher chance for LS drop on headshots to incentivize active play vs mindless spam or automation (ie Octavia and Monke bot)

[Numerikuu]

5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

"Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson, lead designer for Civilization IV.

Why must survival be guaranteed? Why do so many WF players consciously default to removing any semblance of engagement by approaching the game as an absent-minded puzzle to automate with zero opposition? There is no catharsis or pathos in playing the game like that. Is the desire to win at all costs really worth killing the game for yourself long-term? It's a soulless self-fulfilling prophecy at best.

You are precisely the type of player Johnson was referring to when he said developers must protect players from themselves.

Amen. Love that quote.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Monolake:

SteelPath survival  (the mission type) is very stingy on LifeSupport thus requiring insanely high killrate  - so it unfairly punishes those who use single-target weapons alone.  I would suggest bumping up LS drops in SP survival just a bit, like 10%, or maybe even have a higher chance for LS drop on headshots to incentivize active play vs mindless spam or automation (ie Octavia and Monke bot)

that's right. sp surv will then be unplayable.
I had a game in void yesterday. there was an ivara with blatant overkill mele damage. when i joined it was 52% and there was nothing to activate.

and only because of my aoe weapon and my buffs, the mission was saved.

In addition, there is very high damage and even the best single target weapon is useless because enemies have good aimbots.