AoE Changes - subtle but impactful? [post Devstream discussion]

[Marvelous_A]

DE is already real nice this time compared to the last time they nerfed Tonkor and Simulors. Even without weapons there are still plenty of ways to nuke. Chill TF out.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon:

Basically, this is looting and collecting  game. 

If you want go to Saturn Proxima, you have to clear many nodes, it could be two-digit number. If you are single-played console tenno, it asks us to clear *N times. And you have to repeat this whole process many times to get a full 60% kuva weapon.

 

If your tarket is in C rotation with 6% probability, you have to repeat that boring mission 20 times, 30 times or more, it could be three-digit unless you're lucky.

 

If you prepare Baro Kiteer, you have to repeat Void Fissures 2-digit or even 3-digit times.

 

And else more...

 

The game system requires us to repeat as many as possible no matter how bore or annoying the mission is, so many tennos use the fastest way(mostly AOE), but devs try to block it and develope new more terrible ways to loot.

 

Currently, one of the fastest solution is Kuva Jarr and some warframes. I don't feel I have to agree with Dev's nerf plan.

can't you change the region?
because on pc I have to switch to na at night. and during the day on europe.
because i only play warframe in pubs most of the time. I would never play the game solo.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

25 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

You don't need AoE to clear missions quickly, and it's not a race to speedrun missions. Pretty weak argument if your impatience is your only point of debate.

We can clear everything by many ways.

The most difficult thing in this game is repeating the same things dozens of times or hundreds of times to loot something in AABC rotation or etc. if you take care of MR or collection in profile. 

Therefore, we use everything to repeat it faster not to be crazy in the grinding repeat, and luncher or AOE ability is a big part of it.

Fortunately, I'm L1 and not many things leaves, but nerf could be doom to some MR 10~20.

 

[Jonny5Stacks]

I honestly thought AOE changes where going to be a lot worse.  This change was very clever and not even close to killing AOE.  There are still some really strong secondary weapons that you will actually have a use for now outside of priming.  They even allow us to switch between weapons faster.  On paper this isn't going to be that bad.  It could actually add more diversity to builds for secondaries and melee.

[Pakaku]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

We can clear everything by many ways.

The most difficult thing in this game is repeating the same things dozens of times or hundreds of times to loot something in AABC rotation or etc. if you take care of MR or collection in profile. 

Therefore, we use everything to repeat it faster not to be crazy in the grinding repeat, and luncher or AOE ability is a big part of it.

Fortunately, I'm L1 and not many things leaves, but nerf could be doom to some MR 10~20.

 

That's a problem which would be better addressed by making missions suck less to play repeatedly, and reducing how much we need to repeatedly play missions just to get what we're after. Warframe is one of the better "MMOs" in some aspects, but it really sucks at respecting player's playtime.

Lots of warframe and weapon variety means there's at least ways to change things up. AoE is not the only solution, it's just the most brain-dead easy option. And IMO resorting to that just sucks out whatever amount of fun there is in the grind, and that's what would drive me crazy and burning me out.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

6 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

can't you change the region?
because on pc I have to switch to na at night. and during the day on europe.
because i only play warframe in pubs most of the time. I would never play the game solo.

NorthAmerica in warfeame, English on Xbox and public people are in specific time.

When I bought Xbox lured by GamePass, I didn't know that Xbox is a console for North America and I would install Warframe and few people play warframe on Xbox. 

Waiting 1 hour was common during Prime Resurgence. 

But I adopted and figured out Warframe is a solo game including Railjack except for some exception.

Somehow I am L1 now and don't want crossplay because it's very famous Cheese VPN PC users are notorious with afk Wuclone and pulling lan cable off on exit, etc. in Typhoon legion, and any other technical reasons.

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

You can keep the hordes and remove the incentives to kill them. A number of horde shooters do just that: the horde is an obstacle in, say, L4D, not a loot piñata.

This !!! ♥️

4 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Not to mention that Helminth, some augments, and some crazy dps warframes don't exist at the time.

Steel Path, Overguard and Damage Attenuation didn't Exist Either..... It's not just our Weapons that have gone out of Control... It's The Enemies aswell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was no Shield Elite Lancer or Juno Elite Crewman to Break your $#@& like there is today 😱...

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

If mission times were going to change dramatically, probably.  However average mission time at a given level must have gone down a lot in the last two years, and it's hard to imagine these very moderate nerfs are going to put us back to 2020.

 

 

Gee.... Thanks for making me feel Old 😐....

 

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

31 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

That's a problem which would be better addressed by making missions suck less to play repeatedly, and reducing how much we need to repeatedly play missions just to get what we're after. Warframe is one of the better "MMOs" in some aspects, but it really sucks at respecting player's playtime.

Sometimes angry  sometimes painful

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2022-08-27 at 4:40 PM, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

Because Warframe is now TPS mass-massacre time-attack Hack&Slash. DE has made this game in this way.

This is a lie. Some players choose to play this way but I absolutely hate playing "rushframe". Warframe can be played almost exactly as you want. THAT is how DE made this game.

[(PSN)Unstar]

8 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

where and how is afk played?

They went over it on the recent Devstream, I recommend watching that so you can hear and see it in the devs own words.  They did a good job of showing it off.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)icecell6 said:

It's not my problem its yall problem did you read the post?

OK wipe your tears and then say it again.

invisible + AoE 

[kamisama85]

6 hours ago, Mieo_Mio said:

Stalhta: decent magazine with two aoe shots per mag. it will be interesting to see how this is impacted. It's one I use pretty often aside from the Kuva Quartakk.

I do not suspect this will see any impact. I use the stahlta regularly for SP above level 200 and I am not worried (Solo as excalibur so no ammo efficiency buffs or any other boosts to efficiency).

The incoming change is more ammo, but less often.

It will be okay as the Stahlta is quite ammo efficient. It is very rare for me to run out of ammo. If your stahlta is not built aggressively enough that it becomes inefficient killing at higher levels, then you may have concern for ammo efficiency.

[pinkxblack]

as a nekros i live in DARK SECTOR: in longterm you could only do so much without AOE attack while endless infested run toward to you, or maybe you are stupid enough tryna make every single headshot count, then im gonna say just prepare to respawn already.

DE took down MELEE and CROWD CONTROL now this, you dont mess up with "Cephalon Simaris" human! so whats next take a guess.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

They went over it on the recent Devstream, I recommend watching that so you can hear and see it in the devs own words.  They did a good job of showing it off.

i don't want to hear devs... i want to know where are this afk wukongs ..
because I don't know why and where this is done...

above all, you can't play with it on sp! and all actions are saved in logs. devs see this immediately and old account is banned until 2035.

therefore.... where are these awesome rewards that make it worthwhile to be afk?

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, R4bbit0le said:

Out of curiosity, do you find this common? Is there a weapon where this situation is holding you back from playing it?

Well, since I know about the problem I've taken steps to mitigate it when putting together my loadouts so it doesn't tend to impact my normal play (though I feel the point stands that I shouldn't have to compromise my customisation just to avoid such issues), but I generally find that the issue is more effected by your choice of Warframe than weapon, so the loadouts I build with those frames tend to have reduced emphasis on fine aiming.

14 minutes ago, pinkxblack said:

or maybe you are stupid enough tryna make every single headshot count, then im gonna say just prepare to respawn already.

This just makes me think you don't actually use non-aoe. Rapid precise fire is fairly easy to pull off when you put the effort in, and I'm saying that as someone who has problems with motor coordination.

[pinkxblack]

11分钟前 , Corvid 说:

Well, since I know about the problem I've taken steps to mitigate it when putting together my loadouts so it doesn't tend to impact my normal play (though I feel the point stands that I shouldn't have to compromise my customisation just to avoid such issues), but I generally find that the issue is more effected by your choice of Warframe than weapon, so the loadouts I build with those frames tend to have reduced emphasis on fine aiming.

This just makes me think you don't actually use non-aoe. Rapid precise fire is fairly easy to pull off when you put the effort in, and I'm saying that as someone who has problems with motor coordination.

sometime i use "Euphona Prime" one of my fav handguns, its powerful enough but still not enough to make it last, they are just too many, i have to summon the dead to help me.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Rapid precise fire is fairly easy to pull off when you put the effort in, and I'm saying that as someone who has problems with motor coordination.

First of all, practice doesn't work on console controller,  mouse drag&click VS controller stick leaning by proper degree is totally different.

Second of all, warframe is not a competition like Apex or PUBG. If devs asks us aim practice, they loose many users including me

[PhiZero]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

First of all, practice doesn't work on console controller,  mouse drag&click VS controller stick leaning by proper degree is totally different.

Second of all, warframe is not a competition like Apex or PUBG. If devs asks us aim practice, they loose many users including me

I just had to look it up, but it really sucks that the Xbox and Playstation versions of Warframe completely lack Gyro Aiming...probably have Panic Button to thank for it on NSW.

 

Though I'd have to disagree that practice doesn't work on controller, as games like Halo were previously console exclusive. You'd need to practice your aim regardless if you're driving mouse or stick, if we couldn't LASO would not have been possible. It's more so a matter of commitment and how much you love the game as is.

 

As for asking us to aim, you may want to look into what happened to a game called Global Agenda. It was an online coop shooter that predated Warframe; but, unlike DE their team removed headshots to lower the skill ceiling for accessibility.

Needless to say, it didn't go well and the studio abandoned it just over a year later with repeated poor design decisions and none existent player retention. (Though I for one played it for 5 hours a day for that whole year.)

If Warframe was to not incentivize headshots in the same manner, I have a feeling that a larger portion of the fan base would leave.

 

Though back to the problem at hand, considering that Xbox lacks Gyro Aiming. Either A, as suggested, some target practice can be done just as we did in Halo for 2 decades. Or B, pigeonhole ourselves into frames like Nova and Volt to create Psuedo-Headshot-Multipliers on AoE.

Personally, I went with A as it left my arsenal open for greater frame diversity; but I understand that's not for everyone.

[Josh486]

Damn these posts really coming all out at once huh, ahem, cope

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

31 minutes ago, PhiZero said:

I just had to look it up, but it really sucks that the Xbox and Playstation versions of Warframe completely lack Gyro Aiming...probably have Panic Button to thank for it on NSW.

 

Though I'd have to disagree that practice doesn't work on controller, as games like Halo were previously console exclusive. You'd need to practice your aim regardless if you're driving mouse or stick, if we couldn't LASO would not have been possible. It's more so a matter of commitment and how much you love the game as is.

 

As for asking us to aim, you may want to look into what happened to a game called Global Agenda. It was an online coop shooter that predated Warframe; but, unlike DE their team removed headshots to lower the skill ceiling for accessibility.

Needless to say, it didn't go well and the studio abandoned it just over a year later with repeated poor design decisions and none existent player retention. (Though I for one played it for 5 hours a day for that whole year.)

If Warframe was to not incentivize headshots in the same manner, I have a feeling that a larger portion of the fan base would leave.

 

Though back to the problem at hand, considering that Xbox lacks Gyro Aiming. Either A, as suggested, some target practice can be done just as we did in Halo for 2 decades. Or B, pigeonhole ourselves into frames like Nova and Volt to create Psuedo-Headshot-Multipliers on AoE.

Personally, I went with A as it left my arsenal open for greater frame diversity; but I understand that's not for everyone.

1. Also, no aim assist

2. I've used controller for many years and tried aim trainer but controller is controller. Fast stick reaction is not easy. I saw ending of Halo 1~5 normal mode. But Warframe vomits way too many crazily running mobs. 

 

3. About headshot, mobs don't have proper head about size,shape,location. Who loves headshot in this game?  I chose this game because of mostly melee slash and sometimes killing mass at once.

 

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

But Warframe vomits way too many crazily running mobs

Reminds me of when they added 'Weakpoints' on Eximus that you HAVE to shoot and it took Rebecca a full minute with a Tigris Prime to kill.

Because the enemies were moving like, and to quote a YouTuber, a Crack Addled Spidermonkey.

I don't think it's coincidence that the best Headshot focus Frame is one with a CC that specifically reveals the head lol.

I like Harrow and how he rewards headshots, really wish that every other Frame was like that.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Reminds me of when they added 'Weakpoints' on Eximus that you HAVE to shoot and it took Rebecca a full minute with a Tigris Prime to kill.

Because the enemies were moving like, and to quote a YouTuber, a Crack Addled Spidermonkey.

I don't think it's coincidence that the best Headshot focus Frame is one with a CC that specifically reveals the head lol.

I like Harrow and how he rewards headshots, really wish that every other Frame was like that.

I like dealing them with melee with slash. It's better and fun than aiming gun.

[PhiZero]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

1. Also, no aim assist

2. I've used controller for many years and tried aim trainer but controller is controller. Fast stick reaction is not easy. I saw ending of Halo 1~5 normal mode. But Warframe vomits way too many crazily running mobs. 

 

3. About headshot, mobs don't have proper head about size,shape,location. Who loves headshot in this game?  I chose this game because of mostly melee slash and sometimes killing mass at once.

 

I for one enjoy thr headshots where they matter, such as on the Zariman and SP. Though it does get out of hand from time to time without choke points or corridors to funnel enemies through.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what's your usual go to loadout on controller?

Since I'm pretty sure AoE will still be functional unless we're talking about the Bramma arrow detonation.

As I usually run with an Ohma/Hespar, and either a psuedo AoE slash primary like the primary Catchmoon (which shouldnt be affected with the AoE balance pass) or a Mutalist Cernos for AoE priming.

An impact Kuva Tonkor may just replace the Zarr with Internal Bleeding, which I'm actually curious to see if AoE will go the HM/IB route with the changes.

1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Reminds me of when they added 'Weakpoints' on Eximus that you HAVE to shoot and it took Rebecca a full minute with a Tigris Prime to kill.

Because the enemies were moving like, and to quote a YouTuber, a Crack Addled Spidermonkey.

I don't think it's coincidence that the best Headshot focus Frame is one with a CC that specifically reveals the head lol.

I like Harrow and how he rewards headshots, really wish that every other Frame was like that.

I think I remember that stream, wasn't that a Nullifier? Cause I gave up on hitting those drones years ago...

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Nerf this ammo count when players going pull out protea's ability and ammo gear

My friend, I'll let you meme, but did you forget that all of these would still only restore 1 Ammo at a time to something like the Bramma? Which currently has a magazine of 5, and people currently use to carpet bomb freely because of the prevalence of ammo drops to convert?

So Protea's ability would restore 2 ammo every... ten seconds, is it? Nine seconds? And the ammo packs that drop from enemies will be less frequent under the new system, so even putting on Ammo Case and Ammo Mutation would mean you only have 6 ammo for the Bramma and can only pick up 1 ammo from any given drop. DE turn around and give that same problem to other weapons like the Zarr and Tonkor... 

I mean, it might be enough? Maybe if things aren't too full of enemies, or if you have a CC ability to group enemies up for more consistent damage. You certainly couldn't do the current strat of levelling up a frame to 30 in one Exterminate run on Saturn by putting on Silence, Primed Sure Footed and the Bramma to maintain a 5x Stealth Multiplier, because you'd run out of ammo in a few seconds.

And remember, this isn't to stop the weapons themselves from being so powerful or damaging, it's to stop automation. Like the monkey clone. And that, my friend, is the real nerf.

The nerf to players that don't actually want to play the game.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

11 minutes ago, PhiZero said:

 

If you don't mind me asking, what's your usual go to loadout on controller?

 

Not fixed

Not specific: Valkyr or Ash  - epitaph - (kronen,nikana,innodem,dual keres, ... etc.) - my favorite

Defense : Nova(low strength) - Bramma 

Mobile Defense : Khora - Ankyros

Lith : Titania with Thermal

Railjack solo : Wukong with Dispensary  - Jarr

Spy,Rescue solo: Wukong with Auto hack(needs no weapin)

Assasination solo : Wukong - Jarr 

Murmur : fast warframe like Wukong or Gauss  , when feeling bored : Valkyr

Iso vault solo : Gauss - Jarr - voidrig

weapon Rank job on hydron or ESO : Inaros or valkyr

Hijack : Inaros (needs no weapon)

Lich confrontation : Banshee - jarr - Detron

 

Last week : Gauss was invigolated for 2nd Cri % so  Gauss with pilige -sporelacer with overcharge had been used many times.