What do you think a "Warframe Raid" would look like ?

[MouadSaqui]

All in the title, Also lets make this thread about Raiding in warframe, Curious to read your opinions ! 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

An Archon fight ...

I'll show myself out 😅

[MouadSaqui]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

An Archon fight ...

I'll show myself out

I'm sure Archon fights are gonna be Jackal like bosses with billions of HP and shields, definitely not a Raid

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

I'm sure Archon fights are gonna be Jackal like bosses with billions of HP and shields, definitely not a Raid

Most recent devstream said they will return to the discussion next year but Veilbreaker sounds every bit of a weekly raid to complete that result in a reward to care about with Archon Crystal's.

"Raid light with 90 calories" if you will.

[0_The_F00l]

I expect a not too different LoR or JV ,

For those not aware , Raids already existed in warframe and were called trials .

They were discontinued cause every update either made parts of the trial buggy or easily bypassed by some new tactic (especially JV) 

Even starting a trial was a chore in itself because it required at least a few players and some relatively specific loadouts and a key that took quite some time to build.

Then it needed co ordination and standing still for some time on a specific location.

While JV was ... Rather chaotic , I dunno i only did it once , it was pretty weird and had archwing sections.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, LeoniePiggy said:

Aside the fact the I know what a Warframe Raid LOOKED like...

 

I want 8 player squads back.

I'd like them to have puzzle elements again that force you to strategize and think about what frames are needed.

I'd love them to bring the Op-Link back and have us split up into 2 4 player squads - one in RJ and one on the ground (maybe even in an open world like they showed at tennocon that one time).

Raids against Grineer/Corpus don't seem fitting - I'd love to see giant infested and especially sentient bosses that we need to take down with skill and cooperation rather than raw damage and buff/multiplier stacking. (Looking at you condition overload and galvanized savvy/shot/aptitude ... and I guess cough laetum cough)

 

And I guess last but deffinitely not least.. meaningful rewards for players of all ranks. I know this is tough and will probably mean coming up with a whole new powercreep system, but what's the point in playing a raid when the payout is worthless? Just to list what the old raids had:

• 1 Million Credits upon completion
• Arcanes (The ones the now drop from Terry, Garry, Harry and Orphyx missions)
• Increased chance for rare containers and thus boosters, detonite injectors and fieldron
• Increased chance for ayatan sculptures

Looking at this, these rewards would most definitely be outdated by todays standards. So here's a list of what people would like to see today and also always need:

• 5 Million Credits completion reward (guranteed)

3 rolls of either:

• Warframe Slots (2x)
• Weapon Slots (4x)
• Riven Slots (2x)
• Riven (2x Any type)
• 100K Kuva
• 100K Endo
• 3K Ducats
• 7 Day Booster (Any Type and I mean ANY)
• Forma (3x)
• Orokin Catalyst (3x)
• Orokin Reactor (3x)
• Warframe Exilus Adapter (2x)
• Weapon Exilus Adapter (2x)
• Umbra Forma
• Relic Pack (5x)
• Nitain Extract (20x)

Looking at these rewards It is important to evaluate a proper replayability rate and I'd say for this pool and quantity of rewards being able to play a raid once a week sounds good.

Warframe/Weapon slots given away at this rate won't ever happen. They'll be regulated to Nightwave in that format.

And Riven mod slots shouldn't even exist in my mind. Having it is ridiculous.

[SneakyErvin]

I dont really want to think about what they can look like since I've seen so many failed raids in similar games that completely fail to capture the point of why raids are raids in the first place. And I have zero confidence in DE suddenly cracking the code and finding a solution to make raids actual raids in a game like this.

ArenaNet atleast realized that it was impossible to make raids in GW2 with the class design the game had, so they went far, wide and deep and gave all classes trinity-like build options so they could release more classic raids. And that is also something I think DE is not up to doing at all. Which will end up with raids having no meaning, and no reason as to why they require 8 players instead of 1-4 as the rest of the game. Which is the same thing that goes through my mind whenever I sit down to kill a "raid" boss in Diablo Immortal "why cant I just fight this guy solo?" cos there is nothing in the fight that actually promotes having players 2-8 in the group aside from sponge health.

[----Legacy----]

Blinding VFX and tons of particles everywhere while transmissions try to explain what's going on. Then, all of a sudden, BOOM! "Mission Success"

[CoffeeElemental]

I don't really think raids should return.

[DrBorris]

While I doubt it will happen, I kinda just want a Jordas Verdict 2.0. JV, outside bugs, was a nearly perfect raid for Warframe.

• Add a tiny bit of Railjack leading into the start of the mission.
• Bump up the spawn rates. 
• Add something to stage 2 as it was repurposed as a star-chart mission.
• Make the outside of stage 3 Railjack stuff. This would be the part that needs the most change, outside should be just as interesting as inside. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Jordas_Verdict

Raids in WF shouldn't be overly complex and the cooperativeness should be designed in a way where text-chat is a viable way to communicate. They also shouldn't be too long, a team that has done the raid a few times should be doing it in 30-45 minutes. 

Law of Retribution isn't unsalvageable as a raid, but it didn't have near the amount of creativity or uniqueness as JV. I'd rather see DE compress/simplify LoR into a 4 player dungeon (remove stage 2) than see them bring it back as a Raid. 

 

I can't imagine DE going back to LoR or JV if they do make a raid in the future, but when it comes to designing a new raid for Warframe I do think the old Trials are a good starting point. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

I genuinely wonder whether raids can provide content that is engaging in Warframe with the current level of power that players have available to them.  Even with just a 4-person squad, you can have bottomless energy, massive CC, huge defensive and offensive buffs for the whole party, and debuffs for the enemies if that's not enough.  And if you bring a single Warframe to most content, you can get most of those things all by your lonesome.

So bringing even more than 4 people (assuming that's what "raid" means?) seems like overkill for most things.  And puzzles like "everyone split up and step on a button" aren't really engaging and feel more like busywork.

I'm not saying there's no way to make raids that are good in Warframe, but I think it's a big challenge when Warframe has trouble designing content that can't be trivialized by a single well-prepared player.

[Achlevius]

I recently did Angels of the Zariman, and while I only played the new game modes twice (once in story mode, once to unlock the star chart node), I had a ton of fun with the new Void game modes.  They were hectic, chaotic, but I also understood what was happening and I found myself using my Warframe's abilities and the Operator consistently.

It was glorious. (So far; hopefully they continue to be fun moving forward.)

As such, I think the new Void game modes are a great starting point for Raids; just do something along those lines, but on steroids. 😅

ETA: It also occurs to me Assault is also a good example of how to do a raid.  It's a mission that has multiple objectives throughout the mission as you complete them.

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I genuinely wonder whether raids can provide content that is engaging in Warframe with the current level of power that players have available to them.  Even with just a 4-person squad, you can have bottomless energy, massive CC, huge defensive and offensive buffs for the whole party, and debuffs for the enemies if that's not enough.  And if you bring a single Warframe to most content, you can get most of those things all by your lonesome.

If there is an understanding that every Raid is going to have a set of abilities brought to them, then the Raid can simply be designed around the assumption that those abilities will be available to players.

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

So bringing even more than 4 people (assuming that's what "raid" means?) seems like overkill for most things.  And puzzles like "everyone split up and step on a button" aren't really engaging and feel more like busywork.

What if instead of simply standing on a button, the Raid required that, during a particular phase, you defend four points sufficiently spread out throughout the map? 🙂

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, LeoniePiggy said:

• Increased chance for ayatan sculptures

Did Raids exist at the same time as Ayatan scultures? I could a sworn Raids were gone before Ayatans were added

[(PSN)Unstar]

10 minutes ago, Achlevius said:

What if instead of simply standing on a button, the Raid required that, during a particular phase, you defend four points sufficiently spread out throughout the map? 🙂

This is just my opinion, but to me that sounds like having 4 people doing a solo mission, just in the same mission.  And I'd wonder if there's a point to that?  I would think that players interested in doing a raid would want an experience that is more "cooperative" and "unique" than just "everyone does their own mobile defense".

Don't get me wrong though; DE could make that content, put rewards behind it, and we players would jump through those hoops to get it.  But is it what people want when they think of "raids", and is it content worth making, and worth players spending their time playing?

[Raarsi]

The best inspiration I can think of for this is alliance raids from FFXIV: no real meta, just a bunch of players pitted against large bosses with mechanics that only require a handful of braincells and just a tiny dash of cooperation.  The open-world raids is Guild Wars 2 is another great source to draw from as well I'd think.

As far as Warframe goes, Jordas is definitely a good example of a fight that could be turned into a raid (albeit adding and increasing some mechanics).  A railjack-level raid would amazing, although any sort of bosses in those would likely have health pools bordering on imaginary numbers.  Archwing raids could be fun, but also a bit bland given the general lack of archwing choices.  Frame-level raids though should rightfully be at least a "bring your own build" on a base level so that all players can partake in that content regardless of skill or gear level, with maybe something slightly more meta-focused for top-tier raids. 

If content is going to be designed, you really do need to make it for as many people as you possibly can.  No point making content that would be solely for hardcore players when there wouldn't be enough players to do it and winding up being a waste of dev time and money.

[CrownOfShadows]

Elements that I personally would want or expect from raids:

1. Long - most raids I've played in other games are longer than normal content. This gets tricky with WF because we do survivals and stuff that last a long time. Ima simplify this to 'longer than a normal WF mission' like exterminate. They tend to be gauntlets, ordeals. How long should they be? This is hard to say. I expect something like the length of 3 standard exterminate missions, but it depends on a lot of things. I also expect no breaks to re-equip otherwise it's just kinda sorties by another name. One way we have of creating long missions that don't feel long in WF is by forcing use of anyone of our many modes: archwing, underwater archwing, necramech, operator, railjack. Having sections dedicated to these would create some nice diversity.
2. Custom Environments - making raids out of current tilesets is just not going to be super enticing. Dedicating resources to making special environments for them, even if they're random tilesets themselves, as long as they aren't found elsewhere in the game, would go a long way in making these feel special. I'd even argue that they might be better as full guided environments than tilesets, but tilesets do have the benefit of shaking things up a bit. On the note of environments, I think one thing WF could really use is more environment interaction. We need more than mazes, we need environmental threats, we need environment manipulation, and we need some more destructible environments if possible. The only environment destruction I can recall in WF (outside of quests) is on Eris when parts of the ceiling fall. The environment should really be a way more active part of things, and nowhere is this more true than in raids. Including some parkour challenges here could be interesting, but would be need to be done with care too.
3. Boss - most raids end with a boss. Some don't, but most do. I expect interesting bosses that keep the team on their toes and are hard to bring down. I sincerely hope no WF boss ever again uses invulnerability as a means of extending the fight. We can totally make really interesting bosses for high level teams. Give them abilities that target certain frames or playstyles and let adapt to damage types and give them regen here and there and give them attacks that hurt so much that you actually have to stop your own attacks and heal, give them tiers of both damage and weakness that can be unlocked, give them assistants...  stuff like that. Also, again, environment can be brought in to these fights in a big way.
4. Miniboss - encountering mini-bosses that block your progress to the main boss tend to be great additions, as they serve as mile markers and also build up anticipation for the main event. I don't think they should be in every raid, as they also slow progress, but sprinkling them in here and there can only be a win. If done, they can't be Seargeant-level, they need to be like Thrax On Steroids level.
5. Story - sometimes, having a bit of story can really help raid immersion. This is probably at the bottom of my list, but I know that when I've had raids that felt like they had a purpose and reason behind them they felt more engaging.
6. Rewards - I agree raid rewards should feel amazing.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

everyone has their own idea of what a n "endgame raid" should be: some want a more combat focused experience, others want puzzles and parkour in there as well. there's no possible way to please everybody.

I think it would have to be a long mission that incorporates every single aspect of warframe's gameplay, sort of like a gauntlet that tests your abilities in all areas, meaning you need to take into account your strengths and weaknesses as a player: if you're great at one thign but suck at another, you'll find a part of the mission more challeneging, and unless you are great at every game system, everybody will find a challenge at some point. as an example:

 - a mission starts on the plains, you are in your warframe, the stage is combat focused, sort of like a survival: the map's open so you can go nuts with whatever you want.

- you then need to cross a large minefield that also has AA cannons covering it, so flying isn't possible: instead you use a K-drive to skate delicately above the mines, avoiding obstacles and shooting distant targets with your secondary.

- you are then required to board your railjack, which is being brought into the atmosphere for you, but first you need to clear out enemy air support: players deploy archwing and engage in evasive dogfights with enemies using Archgun and archmelee

- railjack arrives and takes you into space: queue space combat as per usual railjack missions.

- you board an old asteroid base that's partially destroyed: you must use parkour moves to get across, as *something* prevents bullet jump/void sling spam.

- you arrive in an area where Orphixes have been left active, and are requires to switch to your mech (not everyone likes the mechs I know, so this can be a short but intense combat sequence)

- you engage an enemy in a final boss fight that works a bit like the angels, where operator usage is key along with use of warframe powers and weapons. 

the order can be whatever, but that's an example of something that asks the player to be familiar with all systems and might even tell you where you could improve. it's long, multi stage and asks you to do more than just one thing over and over. 
 

[OniDax]

We know what Warframe raids looked like: Trials. They weren't that popular for a reason...