CC effects that work[ed] through Overguard [before Dante Unbound, mostly]

[Tiltskillet]

Most of the following is obsolete as of Dante Unbound.  Look at the more recent posts at the end of the thread for updates.  I'll have a new thread soon-ish.

* * *

DE, Eximus Reborn: "While Overguard is active, it will keep Eximus units immune to Warframe crowd control abilities and anything that will stagger, knockdown, stun, mind control, ragdoll, and blind."

So here's a work in progress with all the exceptions I've found.

Silence’s effects on eximus ability usage and various cold/radiation proc dependent effects I’m putting in bold to signify that these are documented and intended.

I am listing some things that are only vaguely CC, like minion aggro, projectile reflects and distracts.   I suspect all the distracts are intended to work but I’m not bolding them because I don’t know for sure.  After all, Noise Arrow doesn’t work. Also not bolding minion aggro, mainly because I’m including subjective observations about how good these seem to be at it.

I'll also list a few non-CC abilities or components that don't work through Overguard and some other odd stuff. I wasn’t combing through abilities looking for these, so I’d bet there are many more.  

• These will be indented like so.

Instead of “Targets with an Overguard bar”, I’m just going to say “OGs” for brevity’s sake and because it’s mildly funny.

While I’m sure some CC interactions have escaped me, I think I’ve tested all frame abilities and ability augments   Therefore I’m not listing all the cases where they’re disabled against OGs.  I’ve only tested a few weapons and arcanes though, so I’m listing everything I’ve tested there.

Huge thank you to @(NSW)AegisFifi for inspiration, clarifications, and corrections.  Additionally, they have looked at all the companion abilities and  some other item classes that I’ll leave to their discretion whether to post or not.  edit: Companion effects can be found here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1344190-cc-effects-that-work-through-overguard/#comment-12748118      

This is basically an infodump.  I have vague plans to do something more polished and organized once I get some feedback and error checking.

 

Edited March 31 by Tiltskillet
formatting x 5

[Tiltskillet]

Most of the following is obsolete as of Dante Unbound.  Look at the more recent posts at the end of the thread for updates.  I'll have a new thread soon-ish.

* * *

Warframe Abilities

Ash through Gyre:

Spoiler

Ash:  Bladestorm isn’t what I’d call a CC ability normally, but OGs can be stunlocked with it.

Atlas: None

• Petrify's resistance reduction effect also does not apply.  I imagine Ore Gaze won't work either, but haven't tested it.

Banshee: Silence prevents eximus from using their -active- special abilities, OG or not.

• Silence does not disable the personal AoE resistance of Guardians, which was a feature that was documented in the Eximus Reborn patch notes but not implemented. Not that she especially needs it, lol. 
• Unalerted OGs under the effect of Silence usually won’t be alerted by damage until Oveguard is broken.  (Occasionally this happens even without Silence.)

Baruuk: None

Caliban: Lethal Progeny seem to have better aggro draw than the average minion.

Chroma: Spectral Scream, Elemental Ward, and Effigy set to cold can inflict cold procs.

Citrine:  Prismatic Gem will inflict cold procs.

Dagath: None.

Equinox: None. 

• OGs can't be targeted with Rage, and none of its effects can be spread to them.  This includes the damage vulnerability, which is not itself a CC.
• Pacify's damage reduction debuff doesn't affect OGs.

Excalibur: The blind on Exalted Blade spin attacks.

Excal Umbra: Same.

Frost:  Freeze, Ice Wave, and Avalanche will apply the maximum 4 cold procs that are allowed on OGs.  Additionally, the separate slow on Snow Globe and the Ice Wave augment work.

Gara:  Blind on Passive.  Forced Taunt on Spectrorage

Garuda: None.  

• Dread Mirror and Blood Altar can’t even target OGs.  So no jumps work and no shield refresh either.

Gauss: Thermal Sunder inflicts cold status.

Grendel: Regurgitate's slow works on OGs.

Gyre: None

Harrow through Nyx:

Spoiler

Harrow: None

• Condemn will not restore shields through Overguard.  Especially fun versus Infested due to to Ancient Healer auras.

Hildryn: None

Hydroid: The tentacle function on Undertow can move OGs. Nerf him.

Inaros: None.  (Sand Shadows are adequate at drawing aggo.)

Ivara: None

• Prowl is not able to loot OGs, which is one of the weirder things in this list since Prowl has no CC components at all.  Also Noise Arrow doesn’t affect them.  Which is perhaps justifiable, but still annoying considering how bad Noise Arrow is as even quasi CC.

Khora: Venari in attack mode can force an OG to do a “Oh god, bees!” animation periodically.  Regular enemies caught by Strangledome can be very good at distracting OGs.

Kullervo: None.

• Collective Curse does have an odd, restrictive mechanic with different hp layers, including Overguard.  For example:  mixed group of Heavy Gunners affected by Curse, two OGs  and the others standard.  Hit one of the OGs with a single target attack that doesn't break through Overguard.  The second OG will have its Overguard layer reduced through Curse, but the standard enemies won't take any damage to their health.

Lavos: Vile Rush inflicts cold procs, and imbues cold procs into his other abilities. Strangely, it can also move OGs a bit, though this is minor.  

Limbo: Passive works if you consider it CC.  Banish works. Stasis won’t freeze OGs themselves, but will timestop their projectiles if they’re riftbound. 

Loki: Switch Tele works.  Decoy is quite good at drawing OG aggro if you can keep it alive.   Radial Disarm won’t disarm, and the Irradiating augment won’t confuse OGs directly, but if there are any non-OGs around they can get the OGs attention.  Perhaps better than simple radiation procs would.

• The Damage Decoy augment gives a targeted function to the ability, but it doesn't allow the targeting of OGs.

Mag: Ah, Mag.  Magnetize can be cast on OGs and becomes a mobile effect if they move around.  It can be used for indirect CC on OGs by sandwiching them with fodder.  And OGs in its radius will have most projectile attacks reflected back at them.    The augment will Disarm OGs.  Polarize’s augment jams OG weapons, which ends up working more like a Stun than a Disarm on ranged OGs, as they stand in place and won’t cast special abilities for the duration.  Crush’s augment immobilizes OGs, though they can still turn, shoot and cast.

Mesa:  Shooting Gallery augment’s Blind, though can be a little finicky.

Mirage: Sleight of Hand’s Blind, but again, seems not completely reliable.

Nekros:  Minions created by Soul Punch and SOD are decent for drawing aggro.

• Soul Punching while Overguard is up, even if it's enough to destroy the Overguard bar won't inflict the Marked For Harvest effect.  IOW, no Soul Punch minions unless Overguard is broken first.  

Nezha: None.  I'll note that Divine Spears does its damage instances to OGs without CCing them.  Just an interesting case of a CC ability with a damage component that -seems- like it might depend on the CC taking effect but does not.

• Blazing Chakram's damage vulnerability does not apply to Overguard, only to health and shields.  This was not the case early on after the introduction of OGs, but I don't know when it changed.

Nidus: None.

Nova: None.

• Naturally Molecular Prime won’t slow OGs..  It also won’t speed them up.   Technically CC, but is it actually?  See also: Equinox Rage

Nyx: Chaos indirectly works against OGs as long as there are plenty of non-OGs to be directly affected..  MC is a decent aggro draw.

• The Psychic Bolts augment doesn’t work on OGs. But just noting that it stuns normal enemies rather than the confusion effect  in the description.  I think it’s better this way.

Oberon through Zephyr, plus Helminth:

Spoiler

Oberon: Reckoning’s blind works on OGs.  Hallowed Ground and Reckoning can inflict radiation procs on normal targets, distracting OGs.

Octavia:  Mallet and Resonator with Mallet active are very good at drawing OG attention.

Protea: None.

Qorvex:  Chyrinka Pillar does apply its slow to OGs, in addition to being a decent distraction through its radiation proc utility as long as normal units are around.

• As expected, Containment Wall's grouping effect doesn't work on OGs--however its  damage vulnerability is not applied to them either.  Juggernaut is also unaffected, which may mean that all targets immune to the grouping are immune to the debuff.  More testing needed to verify.

Revenant : Thralls are decent aggro distractors.

Rhino: Rhino Stomp slows OGs..  It’s a 97.5% slow, so near paralysis, and will short circuit some eximus abilities.

Saryn: Molt is solid at drawing aggro.

Sevagoth: None.

• Sevagoth Shadow's Consume doesn't damage OGs.  Which in turn means he can't revive himself through his Tombstone mechanic if those are the only targets around.

Styanax: None.

• If it hits an OG Axios Javelin will do damage but won't create a vortex.

Titania: Lantern can draw aggro, but seems worse at distracting OGs than regular enemies.  Razorwing drones are quite good at drawing OG aggro.

Trinity: None.

Valkyr: None.

Vauban:  Bastille and Vortex variant inflicts slow on OGs.  These can be combined  for what I’d estimate is around a 50% slow.   Beyond that, multiple casts from one Vauban won’t stack, but will with cold procs.  

Volt: Discharge’s stun will stick OGs in place.  They can still fire weapons and cast abilities.  And a few enemy abilities allow movement, for example Chargers.

• Volt's Capacitance augment does not restore shields from Discharge damage on Overguard.

Voruna: Fangs of Raksh can inflict random cold procs, and radiation procs on normal enemies can draw OG attention.  Ulfrun’s Descent lunges knocks down OGs.

Wisp: Will-O-Wisp seems to have extremely high aggro and is very good at attracting OG attention.  Breach Surge blinds OGs.

• But what never stops being funny about Breach Surge is it won't spark off of OGs. So the CC works and the non-CC doesn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wukong: The Twin functions as an ok distraction.  The Twin augment Celestial Stomp won't suspend OGs in the air but will slow them.  Like Rhino Stomp the slow is so extreme it could be considered a stun.

Xaku: Xata’s Whisper can inflict void status and reflect or interfere with OG weapon fire.  Accuse’s corrupted fodder can be decent distractions.

Yareli: None.

Zephyr: Tornado inflicts a moderate slow on OGs.   

Helminth:  Marked For Death inflicts a brief stun.  

 

Edited March 31 by Tiltskillet

[Tiltskillet]

Most of the following is obsolete as of Dante Unbound.  Look at the more recent posts at the end of the thread for updates.  I'll have a new thread soon-ish.

* * *

Operator / Arcane / Weapon / Companion

Zenurik slow: works

Zenurik disarm: doesn't

Naramon finisher stun: Doesn’t appear to actually stun OGs, but -does- make them vulnerable to standing finishers–permanently?

Naramon lift: doesn't

Vazarin vortex:  doesn't

 

Magus Anomaly: Will drag OGs  No longer works as of update 34.0.6.

Magus Lockdown: doesn't

Arcane Eruption: doesn't

Exodia Epidemic:  Doesn't suspend OGs but slows them dramatically for a brief time

Primary Obstruct:  Jams ranged weapons through OG.  Also "stuns" at least some melee units, OG or otherwise, that Counter Pulse doesn't.

 

Bronco Dizzying Rounds:  doesn't stun OGs but does open them to finishers

Ferrox etc.: Altfire attraction field doesn't pull OGs

• The field also doesn't damage OGs.

Furax etc.: amalgam augment: stagger doesn’t work

Halikar etc.: Disarm works

 

Parazon Out of Sight:  doesn't Blind OGs.  Oddly.

Orvius: Lift doesn’t work

Panthera etc:  augment: Disarm doesn’t work

Proboscis Cernos: Won’t pull OGs but will stun them briefly

Vitrica: Freeze doesn’t work

Vaykor Sidon:  Blind works

Zymos: 

• Like Breach Surge sparks, spores don't propagate from OGs.

 

@(NSW)AegisFifi's Companion effect breakdown can be found here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1344190-cc-effects-that-work-through-overguard/#comment-12748118

 

Edited March 31 by Tiltskillet

[SpiritTeA]

Where is my downvote for using black text? How am I even supposed to read such wall of text in dark mode?

[Slayer-.]

@Tiltskillet Nice read and interesting, keep up the great work, nice to see what works and doesn't. 

7 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Where is my downvote for using black text? How am I even supposed to read such wall of text in dark mode?

I run my Theme in Warframe Dark 4.5 mode, not sure why you're seeing it as black text, even in Lightmode the page is black but text is white.

[Uan91]

@SpiritTeAIs right, i won't ready such eyes killer.

[Tiltskillet]

21 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Where is my downvote for using black text? How am I even supposed to read such wall of text in dark mode?

It's fine in default mode, which is what I use.   But looking at it in dark mode, you're right that it's pretty unpleasant.   I'm guessing it's an artifact of cutting and pasting from another document.   Maybe I'll try redoing it, but I spent a long time reformatting those posts already because the forum software didn't cope with the spacing well, so it's not happening today.

In the meantime I can only suggest changing to the default mode briefly,  highlighting the text, or copypasting into another document.

Or just give me all the downvotes.  :/

[SpiritTeA]

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's fine in default mode, which is what I use.   But looking at it in dark mode, you're right that it's pretty unpleasant.   I'm guessing it's an artifact of cutting and pasting from another document.   Maybe I'll try redoing it, but I spent a long time reformatting those posts already because the forum software didn't cope with the spacing well, so it's not happening today.

In the meantime I can only suggest changing to the default mode briefly,  highlighting the text, or copypasting into another document.

Or just give me all the downvotes.  :/

I’m mostly read forums at night from my phone on minimal brightness, making it bright white would kill me!

I have no doubts there is some interesting info. Too bad that formatting messed this up for me.

 

[Slayer-.]

14 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's fine in default mode, which is what I use.   But looking at it in dark mode, you're right that it's pretty unpleasant.   I'm guessing it's an artifact of cutting and pasting from another document.   Maybe I'll try redoing it, but I spent a long time reformatting those posts already because the forum software didn't cope with the spacing well, so it's not happening today.

In the meantime I can only suggest changing to the default mode briefly,  highlighting the text, or copypasting into another document.

Or just give me all the downvotes.  :/

Copying from a Document, try Pasting as plain text and it should fix that issue of text being black like you said though you may need to tweak it a little.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Slayer-.

[Eklipse2k2]

Bronco with Dizzying Rounds doesn't stun, but opens up OG units to finishers. Pretty damned useful with a melee with high crit chance/damage.

[taiiat]

i'll keep an eye on this.

 

21 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's fine in default mode, which is what I use.   But looking at it in dark mode, you're right that it's pretty unpleasant.   I'm guessing it's an artifact of cutting and pasting from another document.   Maybe I'll try redoing it, but I spent a long time reformatting those posts already because the forum software didn't cope with the spacing well, so it's not happening today.

for what it's worth, the Editor has a Button to remove complex/leftover Formatting from your current selection.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Eklipse2k2 said:

Bronco with Dizzying Rounds doesn't stun, but opens up OG units to finishers. Pretty damned useful with a melee with high crit chance/damage.

Oh, good one.  I tested Bronco almost right after the eximus rework and didn't find that it worked.  I don't know if something changed or if there was some other problem.

Retesting it in the Sim, I can get two or three finishers off on one target from one trigger pull.  Same in real missions?

When DR first came out, we could use it to execute Demolysts. :D   That was fixed after a while, but do you know if it's capable of it again?

edit:  Tested the multiple finisher thing in a mission and it's the same there.  Haven't tried a demolyst yet, but I did try an Acolyte:  no dice, lol.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Tiltskillet]

34 minutes ago, taiiat said:

or what it's worth, the Editor has a Button to remove complex/leftover Formatting from your current selection.

Ah, that was pretty painless.  I only had to do a little more formatting.  TYVM! 

@SpiritTeA , @Uan91 How does that look now?

[KitMeHarder]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

weapon effects

Tested it like a month ago, but not only will the Ferrox's thrown mode not pull OGs, it won't even deal damage to them.

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Tested it like a month ago, but not only will the Ferrox's thrown mode not pull OGs, it won't even deal damage to them.

Oops, forgot that.   I'll add it.  I actually have a bug report about the damage issue, so that especially should not have escaped me.

I don't have the Tenet Ferrox--do you know if it's the same?

[KitMeHarder]

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't have the Tenet Ferrox--do you know if it's the same?

I sold my normal Ferrox, this was the Tenet.

[Uan91]

54 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Ah, that was pretty painless.  I only had to do a little more formatting.  TYVM! 

@SpiritTeA , @Uan91 How does that look now?

Looks fixed, thank you

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Can't wait for DE to waste resources nerfing all this instead of fixing any of the other glaring bugs in the game that cause regular issues.

[Tiltskillet]

31 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Can't wait for DE to waste resources nerfing all this instead of fixing any of the other glaring bugs in the game that cause regular issues.

I don't know.  They might, but there's been bug reports, dev tagged comments from players and a fair amount of talk about these for the last year.   A turning point for me was Veilbreaker, since they reworked Mag without changing any of her CC working through overguard. 

I'm not in love with  what they decided about overguard and CC, but I think fixing all the exceptions would still be better than this inconsistent mess we've got.  Better still would be to give some utility against eximus to most of the CC abilities that lack it.

In the meantime though, I think everybody should know about this stuff.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

This is very nice, thank you, I appreciate the effort. To (NSW)AegisFifi as well. 

I know about some of these interactions, but will be nice to reference back to now, asa bookmark. 

[gamingchair1121]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's fine in default mode, which is what I use.   But looking at it in dark mode, you're right that it's pretty unpleasant.   I'm guessing it's an artifact of cutting and pasting from another document.   Maybe I'll try redoing it, but I spent a long time reformatting those posts already because the forum software didn't cope with the spacing well, so it's not happening today.

did you use just ctrl+v to paste it in? using ctrl+shift+v instead will paste but not format to the original text so its not black text.

also if you're on mobile it should come up with a second paste as plain text as well as the normal paste button

[ReddyDisco]

3 hours ago, SpiritTeA said:

Where is my downvote for using black text? How am I even supposed to read such wall of text in dark mode?

Reddit downvote culture spilling into forums, ugh

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

did you use just ctrl+v to paste it in? using ctrl+shift+v instead will paste but not format to the original text so its not black text.

also if you're on mobile it should come up with a second paste as plain text as well as the normal paste button

It's fixed now.  But originally I did paste rich text because I wanted to keep the formatting.  Which worked great in preview, but only about 50% of it worked when I actually posted.  Fixing all that took a bunch of edits because preview wasn't working properly.  Only to have to do  it again because of the dark mode issue.

Moral of the story for next time, paste in plain text, and do the formatting one more time.  Instead of rich text and formatting  5 or 6 more times.

 

 

[AegidiusF]

Le 29/03/2023 à 02:51, Tiltskillet a dit :

Huge thank you to @(NSW)AegisFifi for inspiration, clarifications, and corrections.  Additionally, they have looked at all the companion abilities and  some other item classes that I’ll leave to their discretion whether to post or not. 

A huge thank and a huge GG to you for your great work (as always).

I've made a test for Necramechs and Voidrig 1st seems to work, but I need to test it some times more.

Here are the results of the comanions/sentinels tests :

 

1) SENTINEL PRECEPTS :

A) Taxon : Molecular Conversion : doesn't work on OG.

B) Carrier : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

C) Dethcube : Vaporize secondary effect - works on Eximus : it can stun OG on hit. (Fixed on Update 33 : Duviri Paradox).

D) Diriga :
    a) Arc Coil : doesn't work on OG, because based on Electric status.
    b) Electric Pulse : doesn't work on OG, because based on Electric status.

E) Djinn : Fatal Attraction : works on OG : it inflicts a little CC (like Fire status) on OG under 6m range from the Sentinel, but it's not very reliable.

F) Helios : has no exclusive Precept for CC (It's not a CC Precept, but Detect Vulnerability works and can add to remove the overguard, but it's very hard to see with the Eximus FX).

G) Nautilus : Cordon : works on OG grouping them in front of you (just the same way as Magus Anomaly).

H) Oxylus : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

I) Shade : has no exclusive Precept for CC (Ghost can give protection with Invisibility, but that's all).

J) Wyrm : Crowd Dispersion : doesn't work on OG, but an OG enemy in range will enter in the account for the Precept trigger.

 

2) KUBROW PRECEPTS :

A) Huras : has no exclusive Precept for CC, but invisibility can offer protection (same as Shade).

B) Raksa : Howl : doesn't work on OG.

C) Sahasa : Ferocity : works on OG offering some single-target CC, while the kubrow is wrestling with the enemy.

D) Sunika :
    a) Savagery : works on OG offering some single-target CC, while the kubrow is wrestling with the enemy (same as Ferocity).
    b) Unleashed : doesn't work on OG.

E) Chesa : Neutralize : works on OG and had an additional effet when I tested : it disarms the OG and permanently prevents it from using the Eximus abilities (with the exception of Corpus Guardian Eximus). This was very surprising and I think it's non intended.

F) Helminth Charger : Proboscis : doesn't work on OG.

G) Vizier Predasite : Acid Spittle : works on OG, blinding them for a short period.

H) Pharaoh Predasite : Endoparasitic Vector : doesn't work on OG.

I) Medjay Predasite :
    a) Paralytic Spores : doesn't work on OG.
    b) Infectious Bite : works on OG offering some single-target CC, while the Predasite is wrestling with the enemy (same as Ferocity and Savagery).

J) Any Predasite Precept Mod : Volatile Parasite : works on OG offering some aggro, as the OG will also target the maggot.

 

3) KAVAT PRECEPTS : (almost nothing works here)

A) Adarza : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

B) Smeeta : Mischief : works on OG, offering some aggro, but nothing more.

C) Vasca : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

D) Sly Vulpaphyla : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

E) Crescent Vulpaphyla : Crescent Charge : doesn't work on OG.

F) Panzer Vulpaphyla : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

 

4) MOA PRECEPTS : (nothing works here)

A) Shockwave Actuators : doesn't work on OG.

B) Anti-grav Grenade : doesn't work on OG.

C) Whiplash Mine : doesn't work on OG.

D) Blast Shield : doesn't work on OG.

E) Security Override : I couldn't test it on a Robot type Eximus to see if they can be controlled after a hack.

 

5) HOUNDS :

A) Null Audit : works on OG, but it's not a surprise : it was updated to work on them, removing 50% of the OG's total value.

B) Repo Audit : doesn't work on OG.

C) Equilibrium Audit : doesn't work on OG.

D) Diversified Denial : Works on OG, offering some aggro.

Edited May 1, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[taiiat]

18 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

C) Dethcube : has no exclusive Precept for CC.

technically the uh, whatever the Laser thing was called is supposed to Stun the Enemy(ies) it hits.