It takes almost half a year to collect all the incarnon adapters- Timegated FOMO is the wrong direction for WF

[SpiritTeA]

44 minutes ago, quxier said:

It's not about being completionist. It's about getting anything to progress in short time.

I’m sorry, but for 5 minutes you won’t finish a single dungeon/trial/World Boss/anything  in any MMORPG even if you’re the top 0,001% of players that has best items and best DPS. Warframe grind is very generous, I’m saying it as person who played a lot of MMO games.

[Felsagger]

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Wait...playing a video game over a length of time is...getting addicted to it?

 

More exposition to the game is less time for your normal quotidian responsibilities such as work, education, your family and your wife. 

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

I've not missed any. It's just like saying "most things takes 1 to 1000 minutes". Not very helpful. Why? 99% missions can take near 20 minutes and your "sentence" is still not wrong.

What I'm trying to say is that there are more missions & prerequisites that takes close to 20 minutes than there are missions that takes only ~1 minute.

What if you have maybe few hours in Sunday? Oh, e.g. I've done 1 mission then whole Circuit resets (I assume). It's already happening with Archons. I've not done them because when I want to do them I see 3 missions that may take long time but I need to go to sleep or something leaving me "half done" without any rewards.

 

I cleared my run for the Braton and Lato mostly in one evening, solo. Did a little on Friday, cleared it on Saturday. 

[Felsagger]

27 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I cleared my run for the Braton and Lato mostly in one evening, solo. Did a little on Friday, cleared it on Saturday. 

There is no proof of this other than your word. 

 

This is why I don't take this as evidence. If people want to convince others they SHOULD POST videos about the things they simply say. 

[quxier]

  

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

52 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You destroy your life if you make video games an addiction

Wait...playing a video game over a length of time is...getting addicted to it?

I think I have different opinion about game addiction than Felsagger but I agree that longer times you play a game MAY lead to addiction(s).

Of course it's not black and white. Playing e.g. 2 hours daily doesn't mean you are automatically addicted. Games can be educational so you learn something from them in faster way. Even games (or other media) that are entertainment can be used to learn. When I was young I've used to read/play Visual novels in English (it's my 2nd language). I've used translator to translate not know words and I've keep them in some txt-like file.

The thing with addiction is that it may start as something nice, giving you pleasure or something. Then your body tells you that you should do this, even you don't want to do it. Game has it easier to do it. Have you rolled rivens? "Just one more time".... and you rolled it few more times. Just one more mission to get chance of drop? Void fissure with Radiant relic? I've been there done that. With things like Genesis Adapters I feel like I have to play it. Otherwise I loose chance for it for few weeks. Compare it to maxing Holdfast. You don't grind it today? No problem. Do it tomorrow.

There are many ways game can push you to do certain actions. It's fine if it's somehow balanced. Like playing few hours and you get new frame. It's not fine if it takes like 10 hours or potentially unlimited about of time.

ps. I won't discus free will here, it's too big topic

37 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

It's not about being completionist. It's about getting anything to progress in short time.

I’m sorry, but for 5 minutes you won’t finish a single dungeon/trial/World Boss/anything  in any MMORPG even if you’re the top 0,001% of players that has best items and best DPS. Warframe grind is very generous, I’m saying it as person who played a lot of MMO games.

Does it mean that any MMORPG are good? I can finish whole Mahjong solitaire (not sue about name, here is some online version: https://gry.jeja.pl/27,mahjongg-solitaire.html) under 5 minutes. Here is <1minute record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAtMcyWmG20 And I love this comment (100% me):

Quote

photozack81

9 miesięcy temu

Me: proud of getting the game under 5 minutes, gets curious to see what the speedrun record is.

also me: blown the hell away. and crushed a bit. Nice work.

Offline games are much better as game. Dahaka is chasing you? Don't fail and you save game in few minutes. Of course there are bullet sponges but that's less prominent than in MMO genre.

35 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

 

I cleared my run for the Braton and Lato mostly in one evening, solo. Did a little on Friday, cleared it on Saturday. 

One evening is "I wake up at 8 AM, eat something, starts playing from 9-12, for 3 hours"?  Nevertheless that's just one example. Doesn't prove or disproove that there are many "missions" that requires near "20 minutes".

[RichardKam]

2小时前 , Hypernaut1 说:

People with only 5 minutes to play a week should lower their expectations on being a completionist in MMO looter games. 

I considered myself a casual player when I can spend like 1 to 2 hours every other day on Warframe.

5 minutes a week would be um...... leisure players?

[MaxTunnerX]

On 2023-04-29 at 9:57 PM, Kaiga said:

So there's 5 weapons per rotation, but you can only get two a week. So every six weeks, you only get 12 out of 30 weapons.
That means you have to play for 18 weeks to get one adapter for each weapon, this is assuming you have enough time for the hours of grind the steel path circuit takes, and uh...

If you miss a week due to irl circumstances or otherwise can't play, it's another 5 weeks of waiting for a chance at that rotation. See you next year!
That is completely insane. This type of FOMO nonsense started with tau shards, and if you've ever played destiny 2, you'll know what i mean about being a slave to rotations.

This is the wrong direction for warframe to take, since they're adding more in future, making this time gate even longer. Games shouldn't be a second job.

I agree with you 100%. Ive had it with some game devs constatly shifting stuff in and out of rotation. If you make something, keep it in the game goddamn it.

@ some critics of this post - warframe is mostly a collection game, so there is no reason to judge people for trying to farm everything there is.

[Hypernaut1]

21 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

I considered myself a casual player when I can spend like 1 to 2 hours every other day on Warframe.

5 minutes a week would be um...... leisure players?

5 minutes a week is practically logging in and expecting rewards. Although I do think he/she was just presenting an extreme example. 

I may not have time to complete it every week either, but it's just something I accept. The weapons aren't going anywhere though, and eventually I'll be able to collect the ones I do want. I appreciate the fact that it isn't a one time only thing. 

I don't get the attitude of needing everything in a timely manner, but also not wanting to play more than 1 hr a week. 

[American]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

It's okay to have a second job for a game? 

You know, you don't get a salary playing video games. You destroy your life if you make video games an addiction. DE pretends that playing their game SHOULD be a second job. 

That is simply wrong. 

Content should be accessible for a short amount of time. 

Edit: Correction, MODERATE amount of time.

This is seriously giving "ramblings of an insane person" vibes and I'm not here for it. 

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

It's okay to have a second job for a game? 

Please tell me:
How is not getting everything in a new expansion in a week a "second job"?

I mean it's not like the game is going "Play me for 40+ hours in order to get one of these items!!!!"
It's more "Play for a few hours a week and come back the next week to get more."
As in playing a healthy amount in a week, stop, then come back next week.
I would honestly consider this much more of a second job if it was "Play this game for 40-60 hours in a week to get everything!"

 

That doesn't really scream "second job" to me.

 

And if you consider that not being able to get everything a game offers in less than a week a "second job" then I seriously doubt you play many games at all.....

[BornWithTeeth]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

There is no proof of this other than your word. 

 

This is why I don't take this as evidence. If people want to convince others they SHOULD POST videos about the things they simply say. 

No need to worry about it. It's Monday, first day of the week. I finish work at five thirty PM Irish time, gonna go home and unlock the Bo Incarnon in one session this evening. Not the Strun, though, I'll take my time and finish that next weekend.

[Hypernaut1]

I wonder if posting on forum could be considered a second job? 

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

I wonder if posting on forum could be considered a second job? 

DE should pay us.

 

Anyway, the only thing I really don't like about the Steel Path Circuit is the bloody Defence mission. Because I run it solo, I have to hope that one of the five 'frame options has some kind of reliable area defence ability. When I see Khora, or Frost, or Gara, or possibly Garuda, I know it's gonna be a productive run. The Garuda option is annoying through, I basically kill everything int he wave, then turn one last enemy into a blood fountain and keep him that way for a minute to let the target recover for the next wave.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE should pay us.

 

Anyway, the only thing I really don't like about the Steel Path Circuit is the bloody Defence mission. Because I run it solo, I have to hope that one of the five 'frame options has some kind of reliable area defence ability. When I see Khora, or Frost, or Gara, or possibly Garuda, I know it's gonna be a productive run. The Garuda option is annoying through, I basically kill everything int he wave, then turn one last enemy into a blood fountain and keep him that way for a minute to let the target recover for the next wave.

Its kinda hard to fail a survival, exterminate, void flood, or even excavation. The defense missions get risky in later rounds. 

Which id be fine with but rip if you lose everything. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Its kinda hard to fail a survival, exterminate, void flood, or even excavation. The defense missions get risky in later rounds. 

Which id be fine with but rip if you lose everything. 

Defense should be modified, but at least you get to decide before continuing. 

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Its kinda hard to fail a survival, exterminate, void flood, or even excavation. The defense missions get risky in later rounds. 

Which id be fine with but rip if you lose everything. 

Yeah. I run it conservative, tbh. I log in, pick the best frame available, go through a rota of five or six missions, and extract with my progress.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, American said:

This is seriously giving "ramblings of an insane person" vibes and I'm not here for it. 

You are free to enjoy bread crumbs. No one will stop you or be criticized for it.  But if you are going to talk about insanity, you should take a good look at yourself in the mirror. 

Just saying. 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me:
How is not getting everything in a new expansion in a week a "second job"?

 

Please tell me how placing excessive timegates for the acquisition of the items in new released content doesn't make it a "second job"?

 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

I mean it's not like the game is going "Play me for 40+ hours in order to get one of these items!!!!"

I get a good armor set and build in three in few hours playing Horizon Zero Dawn Burning Shores. I get the tools for fun in few play through. 

 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

It's more "Play for a few hours a week and come back the next week to get more."

Yes, exactly this. The developer is PROTECTING and OVEREXTENDING the acquisition of the new content telling me how I should play their game. 

No other developer forces me how I should play and consume the game they build. 

Moderation is on my behalf, yes. But with Warframe postposition of gratifications is DElayed. In Warframe the tools for fun are DElayed behind an excessive timegate the size of the wall of China.

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

As in playing a healthy amount in a week, stop, then come back next week.

True, moderation is my responsibility. We know that. 

I don't play Warframe anymore regularly. I play one or two hours only fridays. 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

I would honestly consider this much more of a second job if it was "Play this game for 40-60 hours in a week to get everything!"

If players wants to do this. Let them. 

I don't play this way. I don't force myself getting items the first day. But developers should NOT plug in their game RNG randomizers for Weapons and Warframe. That is plain wrong. 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

 

That doesn't really scream "second job" to me.

That's true. 

But more of a pachinko machine. 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

And if you consider that not being able to get everything a game offers in less than a week a "second job" then I seriously doubt you play many games at all.....

I played few of these games with moderation. Many? I don't have time for that. 

This is why single player games are great. This is why strict multi player games are great. This is why many people leave Warframe. Why? Because other games provides FUN faster than the time Warframe requires. 

See? 

[BornWithTeeth]

Again, to make the point here: I'm going to go home from work, take care of a couple chores, and then go play warframe for a couple hours and pick up the Bo Incarnon. Today. This evening. Forty hours of grind? Nah. 

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, quxier said:

  

I think I have different opinion about game addiction than Felsagger but I agree that longer times you play a game MAY lead to addiction(s).

Of course it's not black and white. Playing e.g. 2 hours daily doesn't mean you are automatically addicted. Games can be educational so you learn something from them in faster way. Even games (or other media) that are entertainment can be used to learn. When I was young I've used to read/play Visual novels in English (it's my 2nd language). I've used translator to translate not know words and I've keep them in some txt-like file.

That's true. 

3 hours ago, quxier said:

The thing with addiction is that it may start as something nice, giving you pleasure for something. Then your body tells you that you should do this, even you don't want to do it. Game has it easier to do it. Have you rolled rivens? "Just one more time".... and you rolled it few more times. Just one more mission to get chance of drop? Void fissure with Radiant relic? I've been there done that. With things like Genesis Adapters I feel like I have to play it. Otherwise I loose chance for it for few weeks. Compare it to maxing Holdfast. You don't grind it today? No problem. Do it tomorrow.

This is an example of AN INTELLIGENT and WISE MAN. 

 

3 hours ago, quxier said:

 

There are many ways game can push you to do certain actions. It's fine if it's somehow balanced. Like playing few hours and you get new frame. It's not fine if it takes like 10 hours or potentially unlimited about of time.

This is an example of common sense. 

 

I distanced myself from Warframe a lot. I get other experiences that gives me what I want, in a short amount of time and let me enjoy such things at my pace. The games doesn't impose RNG in my choices. 

Could you imagine playing chess while the selection of your pieces in the board are controlled by RNG? Imagine that I have to move and the game rolls a random dice telling me the piece that I can move in that turn. Think about it for a minute. 

I don't know but that's is the definition of insanity. 

 

[Felsagger]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Again, to make the point here: I'm going to go home from work, take care of a couple chores, and then go play warframe for a couple hours and pick up the Bo Incarnon. Today. This evening. Forty hours of grind? Nah. 

Fine, let DE regulate everything with RNG and see what happens. 

Fine, allow DE get away with long time gates and see what happens. 

Every release of content will be less and less. If you want that. Enjoy it. 

Look at the release of Horizon Forbidden West, Burning Shores. The amount of content is of biblical proportions. It can be finished in few hours but takes a lot of time exploring it all together. 

See how Guerrilla Games solves the problem splendidly? 

[BornWithTeeth]

"Do somewhat hard missions for a few hours to earn powerful upgrades," is not exactly the most onerously daft thing DE have ever done. I honestly think the fishy gallstones resource requirement for implementing some of the genesis upgrades is less reasonable than the Circuit challenge to actually acquire them.

 

(I think the viral squirst gun was the most ill considered such thing, I farmed the bloody thing mostly solo.)

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

"Do somewhat hard missions for a few hours to earn powerful upgrades," is not exactly the most onerously daft thing DE have ever done. I honestly think the fishy gallstones resource requirement for implementing some of the genesis upgrades is less reasonable than the Circuit challenge to actually acquire them.

 

(I think the viral squirst gun was the most ill considered such thing, I farmed the bloody thing mostly solo.)

That makes sense. Actually, that's a good observation.

[Mr.Holyroller]

I would agree with you, but there's no mastery for these weapons so I don't get any FOMO from it.
The only annoying part is you cant actually see what the incarnon transformation does until you have the weapon.
I'm actually happy there's a new set of weapon forms that I don't feel obligated to have since there's no mastery.
Especially when you need hundreds of login days for mastery fodder weapons.

[Pizzarugi]

11 hours ago, CatboyPrincess said:

Nope. They could have made it a token-and-shop system instead of FOMO.

Nope. Then we'd be back to, once again, beating the new content in less than a week and complaining that Warframe has nothing for us to do.

6 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE pretends that playing their game SHOULD be a second job.

What?

DE is literally purchase-gating you to prevent you from treating it like a second job. You earn nothing from continuing a circuit after you unlock your two incarnon weapons, for example and if that's all you've got left to do in Warframe, you'll likely just stop playing until the next week. I wish I had a job that made me work for a few hours then told me not to come back until next monday.

You should take a look at Path of Exile if you want a game that wants you to treat it like a second job, because this ain't it. Hell, any MMORPG also fits the bill.