Devstream 171 Overview

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Thank you as always for the Overview Mako. Good luck next week with results! 

As for the Devstream, I was pleasantly surprised and enjoyed it. Only topic I really wanted them to cover, was possibly mentioning new Incarnons, but they teased it decently enough. I think Wisp Prime looks great, not really big on the Helmet, but in my situation, thats almost good, since I already struggle choosing between 4 of her existing Tennogen Helmets/Other Helmets. I also wasn't a fan of original Wisp helmet, and this does seem like a Primed version of that, so kind of makes sense. Have big hype for Fulmin Prime, and Gunsen Prime is a nice surprise! 

Am glad they addressed Soma Incarnon, that it is getting looked at, hopefully that means a buff, plus Hata Satya working too (I do like that mod, but I generally also like the idea of the Soma Incarnon being great without it too). 

Kullervo looks and sounds interesting. His island and all that I also am interested in. Just visually it looks interesting. Sort of slightly more intrigued by his gun though. I mean its a shotgun so... Getting to see Gauss Deluxe and Acceltra skins ingame, is great. I liked the stylisation in the concept art, but more practically, can be envision the skin and how I might want to customise it much better now. People sort of wondered about the head being too small, but I think in game version looks fine. 

New Static Portals and getting Arcanes from them sound great. Have been enjoying the Circuit, so their acquirement wasn't too bad, but if I enjoyed the Circuit less, I could see how frustrating the premise of actually acquiring them could be/feel. Also, great way to get to play with builds complimented by certain Decrees. Often by the time I get to the Orowrym, I am feeling like some post Wrym Undercroft could be fun but... Now, can play with the Static Portals. Am interested how difficult they will be though. I've never actually failed a Duviri run before, outside bugs. Will be interesting if so many Eximus on the Steel Path version, may make a Defence stage a risk. 

The new Preview for Circuit is nice. Can maybe mod certain weapons or Warframes a bit better before tackling. Overall I thought it was a good Devstream. Hope Megan is okay! I think I missed if a reason was given, just that she couldn't. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

thanks as always @(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako, hope your next scan yields good results! everyone is backing you!

- Wisp Prime.. she looks pretty good, but... they kinda covered up the booty, and this is truly unforgivable. Fulmin and Gunsen.. Fulmin Prime should be pretty great, the regular is still very strong, not really a Warfans guy but Gunsen Prime was gonna happen eventually I guess. Drifter Prime suit looks decent, but there are so many good options for him now!

- Kullervo, I'm looking forward to him, and it's interesting that we'll have to fight him: I don't think we've actually fought a warframe since Mutalist Mesa or Chroma, but unless you go in with a bunch of Decrees, I don't rate drifter's chances: ordinary human vs warframe is a wash, unless Kullervo isn't running at full power maybe? guess we'll see.

- Tennogen looks alright, Gauss skin and Acceltra skin doesn't interest me that much though, 

- also nice that we can preview gear before goign into Duviri. no more excuses for host migrations now.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Kullervo, I'm looking forward to him, and it's interesting that we'll have to fight him: I don't think we've actually fought a warframe since Mutalist Mesa or Chroma, but unless you go in with a bunch of Decrees, I don't rate drifter's chances: ordinary human vs warframe is a wash, unless Kullervo isn't running at full power maybe? guess we'll see.

Protea is a more recent frame that we’ve fought. Arguably there are more if you include the specters that show up to defend Sisters of Parvos in their final confrontation. 
 

But yeah. I’m looking forward to the next frame.  I hope his acquisition isn’t too excruciating. 

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Voltage said:

True. It's rough when the industry has titans like Diablo Immortal or FIFA raking in an insane amount of profit over 0 effort treadmill game design to extract money from players. I read recently Diablo Immortal makes over $2 million per day. PER DAY. That's like a massive sign saying "If you aren't exploiting your playerbase, you're a loser <insert Risitas laughing>".

And there is a massive step between having weekly gates/content and selling all rare power directly for cash with a RNG system. Weekly activities have been part of online gaming since MMOs became a thing. We currently have 2 weekly activities Kahl/Archons and Duviri genesis/arcane farming. Which is really not much unlike weekly limited raids in MMOs. Besides us actually getting something each time we do the content here, as opposed to raids where you are at the mercy of RNG and DKP rules for the most part.

And with the Duviri additions coming we'll be able to farm the arcanes in another way aswell. Which will allow us to both work towards daily purchases and RNG drops at the same time, at our own pace.

Plus with people having begged for weekly content such as raids to come back I really cannot wrap my head around the same people complaining about other weekly content getting released. The bonus is that this content can also be soloed, which fits the game and its limitations much better than shoddy raids.

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And there is a massive step between having weekly gates/content and selling all rare power directly for cash with a RNG system. Weekly activities have been part of online gaming since MMOs became a thing. We currently have 2 weekly activities Kahl/Archons and Duviri genesis/arcane farming. Which is really not much unlike weekly limited raids in MMOs. Besides us actually getting something each time we do the content here, as opposed to raids where you are at the mercy of RNG and DKP rules for the most part.

And with the Duviri additions coming we'll be able to farm the arcanes in another way aswell. Which will allow us to both work towards daily purchases and RNG drops at the same time, at our own pace.

Plus with people having begged for weekly content such as raids to come back I really cannot wrap my head around the same people complaining about other weekly content getting released. The bonus is that this content can also be soloed, which fits the game and its limitations much better than shoddy raids.

First off, Warframe technically falls into the category of MMO, but with the ability for the player to one-man-army all content and no need for squads, it hardly feels like one frequently.

Second, I really hate this "well it's always been like this so it's acceptable". Yes, I am well aware that time-gating isn't a new concept. And sure, DE could always be doing something worse like selling a paid battle pass or something. However, that doesn't hand-wave the current situation.

Not everyone who's asked for Raids wants it as a periodic mission. The appeal of Trials (for me and probably quite a few others) was squad optimization that could take a set of missions that average players took 25-30 minutes to complete and shave it down to 10-12 minutes. The last time we had this kind of thing in the game was Railjack in early 2020 when roles mattered or Scarlet Spear ground missions in 2020.

What you're doing is saying "ah, you know, it's not that bad right now so it's fine". You say that long enough and you go from just one, to two, to however many DE will keep adding until you yourself become unnerved. This happened to me when in the Wolf of Saturn Six Nightwave, I blew the whistle how unsustainable seasons are as a structure as we saw with Sorties and how this content cycle will have players waiting years to earn some of the rewards a second go around. Which Intermission is this? 6? 7? Double digits? But hey, atleast you can continue waiting for Efficient Beams, a staple mod of Convectrix to return. I'm sure it will come any day now.

I suggest you just read my Circuit feedback and the pages of comments to better understand what players like myself, @LSG501, and many others feel from where Warframe is going. It doesn't help that lately the best DE can think of is saturation of Arcane slots to just be another mod slot, or Incarnon Genesis which just fuse 2 different weapon archetypes into one with a laundry list of buffs that make almost every other weapon of the same category automatic Mastery Fodder. I'm surprised nobody is really bothered that weapons like Synapse now have to compete with Torid, or Kitguns need to compete with Lex Prime.

[LSG501]

35 minutes ago, Voltage said:

First off, Warframe technically falls into the category of MMO, but with the ability for the player to one-man-army all content and no need for squads, it hardly feels like one frequently.

Second, I really hate this "well it's always been like this so it's acceptable". Yes, I am well aware that time-gating isn't a new concept. And sure, DE could always be doing something worse like selling a paid battle pass or something. However, that doesn't hand-wave the current situation.

Agree, it's not about acceptable or not, it's about how much certain traits are increasing and or being changed.  The reason I can see a paid battle pass coming at some point is due to the way things have been going.... introduce nightwave so you get people doing daily and weekly (chores) tasks, tie rewards to said task with a small fomo, introduce kahl missions and shards but with a larger fomo, increase fomo with duviri circuit and in all honesty quite a large grind to it.... people without enough time complain and next thing we get is a pay to skip option..... then you can throw in aya as a 'new' cross platform currency you can't trade for (I said back on release the aim was to remove plat trading, still think it is).

35 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Not everyone who's asked for Raids wants it as a periodic mission. The appeal of Trials (for me and probably quite a few others) was squad optimization that could take a set of missions that average players took 25-30 minutes to complete and shave it down to 10-12 minutes. The last time we had this kind of thing in the game was Railjack in early 2020 when roles mattered or Scarlet Spear ground missions in 2020.

You could kind of have that with railjack and farming corrupted holokeys, even now... it's far more efficient if you have a players dedicated to specific roles and speeds it up immensely..... still hate the multi layer grind though.

35 minutes ago, Voltage said:

What you're doing is saying "ah, you know, it's not that bad right now so it's fine". You say that long enough and you go from just one, to two, to however many DE will keep adding until you yourself become unnerved. This happened to me when in the Wolf of Saturn Six Nightwave, I blew the whistle how unsustainable seasons are as a structure as we saw with Sorties and how this content cycle will have players waiting years to earn some of the rewards a second go around. Which Intermission is this? 6? 7? Double digits? But hey, atleast you can continue waiting for Efficient Beams, a staple mod of Convectrix to return. I'm sure it will come any day now.

Nightwaves are unsustainable in their original design of a new 'story' each time, DE doesn't have the time management for that.... it needs to change to a syndicate and let us just buy everything.  Not that there's much to buy for those of us who have done all the other nightwaves....credit options suck.   Having said that you could argue that nightwave was the prototype for the current design of the circuit rewards, it's just longer....

35 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I suggest you just read my Circuit feedback and the pages of comments to better understand what players like myself, @LSG501, and many others feel from where Warframe is going. It doesn't help that lately the best DE can think of is saturation of Arcane slots to just be another mod slot, or Incarnon Genesis which just fuse 2 different weapon archetypes into one with a laundry list of buffs that make almost every other weapon of the same category automatic Mastery Fodder. I'm surprised nobody is really bothered that weapons like Synapse now have to compete with Torid, or Kitguns need to compete with Lex Prime.

But this is the way it's always been :P

The issue with warframe in some respects is people are too willing to accept 'rubbish' updates and fall back on the 'beta' tag that warframe likes to try and use.... I'm sorry but warframe lost the beta tag the moment it started monetising pretty much everything, not to mention it's around 10 years old now..., how many times have we had something added to the game that was half baked or just completely wrong for warframe because 'DE' saw something shiny in another game and decided to shove it into warframe...

And everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that duviri has been in development for around 4 years, yeah not exclusively, but you'd have thought that it wouldn't feel rushed when it was released... it's almost like it was changed last minute to be that soul frame beta test theory some people have....

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

Woo!  Equipment previews for Duviri!

[--END--Rikutatis]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

We currently have 2 weekly activities Kahl/Archons and Duviri genesis/arcane farming.

To be fair there's Nightwave as well. But frankly I don't even see Duviri genesis as a weekly grind. It's just a prolonged one. Shards and Nightwave is more infinite, whereas the genesis adapters are limited. For someone like myself who isn't a 100% completionist, I feel like I'm almost done with the system. This is the last week and after that there's like 3 weapons or so that I missed the first time around and still want to acquire. Then I'm done, unless DE keeps adding genesis nonstop from now on, which I somehow doubt considering how they operate with an eye on new content.We'll probably get another batch or two and that's it. 

As for the devstream, I'm just happy they added another option to get the arcanes, it was kinda ridiculous before. I would have prefered an alternative that didn't rely on RNG so much or put me through even more bounties grinding, but at least I'll be able to farm pathos and arcanes in the same run. 

[Skoomaseller]

18 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

Thank you for saving me from having to watch people laughing and having fun on a livestream in order to get the information I need to be maximally upset that the Yareli helmet didn't make it out in this round! 

It's fine, it will come eventually :)

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

First off, Warframe technically falls into the category of MMO, but with the ability for the player to one-man-army all content and no need for squads, it hardly feels like one frequently.

Second, I really hate this "well it's always been like this so it's acceptable". Yes, I am well aware that time-gating isn't a new concept. And sure, DE could always be doing something worse like selling a paid battle pass or something. However, that doesn't hand-wave the current situation.

Not everyone who's asked for Raids wants it as a periodic mission. The appeal of Trials (for me and probably quite a few others) was squad optimization that could take a set of missions that average players took 25-30 minutes to complete and shave it down to 10-12 minutes. The last time we had this kind of thing in the game was Railjack in early 2020 when roles mattered or Scarlet Spear ground missions in 2020.

What you're doing is saying "ah, you know, it's not that bad right now so it's fine". You say that long enough and you go from just one, to two, to however many DE will keep adding until you yourself become unnerved. This happened to me when in the Wolf of Saturn Six Nightwave, I blew the whistle how unsustainable seasons are as a structure as we saw with Sorties and how this content cycle will have players waiting years to earn some of the rewards a second go around. Which Intermission is this? 6? 7? Double digits? But hey, atleast you can continue waiting for Efficient Beams, a staple mod of Convectrix to return. I'm sure it will come any day now.

I suggest you just read my Circuit feedback and the pages of comments to better understand what players like myself, @LSG501, and many others feel from where Warframe is going. It doesn't help that lately the best DE can think of is saturation of Arcane slots to just be another mod slot, or Incarnon Genesis which just fuse 2 different weapon archetypes into one with a laundry list of buffs that make almost every other weapon of the same category automatic Mastery Fodder. I'm surprised nobody is really bothered that weapons like Synapse now have to compete with Torid, or Kitguns need to compete with Lex Prime.

Technically no it really doesnt. It is an online co-op action rpg, it has nothing in it to bring it into the MMO category. It doesnt have a persistent world, it doesnt have a server structure, it doesnt allow sporadic player to player interactions etc. All things that seperate MMOs from regular online games. Even if DE were to introduce dedicated servers it still wouldnt fall into the MMO category since everything is still instance based and finite, it wouldnt even fall into the shared world category which lies just outside of MMOs.

That is your opinion and you have every right to have it. I just dont see a problem with introducing some time gated content, certainly not the way Duviri is done. Veilbreaker however is imo poorly done regarding shards, since there is no point to gating all of it. Normal shards could have been a do it at your own pace grind, with Tau being a weekly thing, preferably with some catch up mechanic so new players can... catch up.

No but raids were periodic missions, and there are people asking for it back in that shape. I personally dont want any form of forced co-op in a game with a foundation made of peer-to-peer, and no one will change my mind on that. 

I'm saying some gated content isnt bad, it can even be good. While it sucks with NW it doesnt impact the gameplay in any real way, since none of the things are mandatory additions to progression, they are all optional. Yeah it must feel bad for someone really wanting to use Convectrix. But it also isnt a thing that holds a player back.

I also find it odd the way people wrangle the whole incarnon thing. Everyone that paints it in a bad light make it sound like there have been no competition for the "poor" weapons that are now shoved away by bad evil incarnon for old weapons. Synapse for instance isnt pushed away by Torid, Synapse was pushed away by Knukor, Tcycron and Primary Sporelacer. And Kitguns arent suddenly pushed away by Lex, because AoE guns already pushed away Kitguns, or in this case Catchmoon, a gun that got replaced ages and ages ago, and if not that far back for some, it got pushed out by Knukor and Tcycron there aswell, and later on by Laetum. If people want to actually argue something, please stop exaggerating the situation into something it is not. There is also nothing wrong with adding actual "endgame" items that end up replacing gear obtained much much earlier. It is good to get something new to chase and use, more so when it revitalizes something so old and unused.

Adding new weapons to grind with the same mechanics that lex and torid now provides wouldnt change anything, nor would giving lex and torid some gimmick mechanics that no one would really use them for. Adding new weapons would just mean adding more to the pile. Adding genesis for old weapons moves them out of the unused pile and into circulation, which is better than clogging up the game with more unused items overall.

42 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

To be fair there's Nightwave as well. But frankly I don't even see Duviri genesis as a weekly grind. It's just a prolonged one. Shards and Nightwave is more infinite, whereas the genesis adapters are limited. For someone like myself who isn't a 100% completionist, I feel like I'm almost done with the system. This is the last week and after that there's like 3 weapons or so that I missed the first time around and still want to acquire. Then I'm done, unless DE keeps adding genesis nonstop from now on, which I somehow doubt considering how they operate with an eye on new content.We'll probably get another batch or two and that's it. 

As for the devstream, I'm just happy they added another option to get the arcanes, it was kinda ridiculous before. I would have prefered an alternative that didn't rely on RNG so much or put me through even more bounties grinding, but at least I'll be able to farm pathos and arcanes in the same run. 

Same feelings here. Dread and Despair this upcoming week, then I'm gonna grab a few other ranged weapons I missed due to order of priority, aswell as Ack and Brunt atleast out of the melee. After that I'll just grab the missing adapters just so I'll have them. 

What they should have done with arcanes since we dont have a real standing shop is allow us to buy 1 arcane of our choice per day instead of having to rely on RNG there aswell. That would mean 21 days and 21 normal orowyrm kills would have given us 1 full arcane, 21 days and far less kills if you do SP.

Edited May 27, 2023 by SneakyErvin