Lore : Is Tau even Real?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

13 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Worse, if Google's correct, Tau Ceti is 12 light years away from the Sun. And sentients were sent at a sublight speed, cause no Void Rail. So we're looking at several decades of travel.

Math is a "little" off. You meant to type a century at least.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Math is a "little" off. You meant to type a century at least.

This is sci-fi where the Grineer can tow a Fomorian between Ceres and Pluto in four days. If the devs want to say the Sentients can move between Tau and Earth in 25 years, then it only takes 25 years

[synfaer]

I bought my house from a 'Real-tau'

[ant99999]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Math is a "little" off. You meant to type a century at least.

But I mean a century is several decades. Vague is the only way it can be, cause we don't have any real numbers of how fast you can go in Warframe universe.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

23 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

What do you guys think?

yes Tau exists. The Orokin wouldn't have spent all that time and all those resources on the Zariman to send it to a place that might not exist: they knew Tau Existed and it just needed a little colonization first, hence why they made the Sentients. then of course the Zariman jump failed, and the Sentients decided to turn back, became infertile from Void Exposure and then started the Old War. 

Tau is likely still full of Sentients, but they have no idea what's been going on in the Origin System, because they haven't been communicating with the Sentients that were fighting in The Old War, and still aren't now with Pazuul and the Archons.

[Lakais]

From what I have gathered with the Old War is that it was a two-pronged attack. Basically the Sentients got to Tau and started doing what they were doing. They turned on the Orokin and sent a massive invasion fleet THROUGH the Void. They apparently actually built the Solar Rail needed to make the Void Punch from Tau to Origin and back. This was The Old War with Eidolon, Hunhow and Natah as the main Sentient players. 
Everything went great for the Sentients at first but then the Tenno were fielded and over time the Sentients were pushed back. This is where Natah as Margulis/Lotus comes in. What the Sentient's strategy ultimately ended up as was that they knew the Orokin forces would invade Tau or that the Rail link would be severed for whatever reason. The Orokin forces with Tenno as the main assets would lay waste to the Tau forces in a campaign of genocide. And we succeeded. 

What we apparently didn't know that the Sentients had a second assault force heading towards Origin; the Praghasa fleet. Now here are different reasons for this fleet: 

1. The Sentients set this fleet off AFTER they realized that their innitial assault on failed and that they are going to lose. Basically as a sort of VERY delayed Mutually Assured Destruction retalliation strike. Why else would Praghasa's one primary function's be the ability to EAT THE SUN? Coupled with Natah's mission this was to wipe the Orokin and Origin off the galaxy. 
2. It was an intercept fleet meant to catch and dispose of any colonisation ships that the Orokin might of already sent before the Hunhow army arrived in Origin. Makes sense for it to be insanely big and powerful because the Zariman is also maddeningly big and who knows what defenses it has. Being able to eat a sun might just come in handy. And once they meander their way to Origin, do the final steps in option 1. 
3. It was the second strike fleet meant to reach Origin and be able to offer on-site reinforcements. The Hunhow forces were now sterile due to the Void influence. And thus operating under the assumption that they couldn't use the Rail to keep sending reinforcements indefinetly they'd need a way to produce troops locally. 

The state that Praghasa is in when it does reach Origin could be for different reasons. If claims are believed the main mind of Praghasa is dead (which can mean anything since Hunhow is also dead but still talking). Either the fleet just got damaged over the eons in the deep black with little to use for self-repair. So the sorry state it is in is just by "natural attrition". Or the fleet came under attack, possibly from Wally. Or a fourth option to the above list is that it came under Tenno and Orokin assault during the counter-invasion and was left adrift, either assumed destroyed and repaired by Sentient remnants after the Orokin forces left or escaped during the fighting and set off towards Sol. There's also a non-zero chance that Praghasa was hit by aliens while in transit in this scenario. There are no aliens in Warframe. Yet. Meme-image-goes-here. 

One other Reason for Praghasa to eat the sun would be to retrieve any Sentient forces still in Origin after a successful campaign. That was what Ballas was having it do, eat the sun to power a portal back to Tau. And it can be inferred from Erra's comments that the Sentients have rebuilt in Tau and Ballas has the capability to force the entire Tau Empire (Consensual Mechanical Republic of Sentientistan?) under his control. 

All of the above is how I personally have interpreted the whole lore so far. 

[Atsia]

9 hours ago, Lakais said:

What we apparently didn't know that the Sentients had a second assault force heading towards Origin; the Praghasa fleet. Now here are different reasons for this fleet:

Praghasa isn't a new fleet, she made the same initial jump as everyone else. She's so wrecked because she's the reason the Sentients only went sterile instead of straight up dying by taking the brunt of the Void Energy onto herself.

[Lakais]

9 hours ago, Atsia said:

Praghasa isn't a new fleet, she made the same initial jump as everyone else. She's so wrecked because she's the reason the Sentients only went sterile instead of straight up dying by taking the brunt of the Void Energy onto herself.

Where is this stated? Considering the reveal teaser trailer for The New War from 2018 shows it coming in from outside the system, far reaches of the Oort cloud, I presume. If I'm not mistaken their ability to not die directly to Void exposure was simply the product of the Sentient's adaption ability. It's just Void is something they can't completely become immune to and sterility is the one thing they can't deal with. 

My theory here is that by "sterile" it means the sentients in question can't generate more mass and thus split off into more individuals. So it's not that they can't make more of themselves, they can't replace lost pieces, they can fix up a hole but it comes at the cost of something else, they can move parts of themselves around and splinter them off to create separate platforms, but there's a finite mass of material to draw from. While as Praghasa and the Murex platforms from it are actively repairing themselves using space debris. 

[TARINunit9]

59 minutes ago, Lakais said:

Where is this stated? 

Detron Crewman synthesis. "To travel the rails [Void based transportation] would destroy them."

So unfortunately...

59 minutes ago, Lakais said:

If I'm not mistaken their ability to not die directly to Void exposure was simply the product of the Sentient's adaption ability. It's just Void is something they can't completely become immune to and sterility is the one thing they can't deal with. 

No. When the Praghasa family jumped into the Void rail, they were taking a risk they would all die for nothing. Going sterile but otherwise remaining battle-ready was them getting off easy

1 hour ago, Lakais said:

My theory here is that by "sterile" it means the sentients in question can't generate more mass and thus split off into more individuals. So it's not that they can't make more of themselves, they can't replace lost pieces, they can fix up a hole but it comes at the cost of something else, they can move parts of themselves around and splinter them off to create separate platforms, but there's a finite mass of material to draw from. While as Praghasa and the Murex platforms from it are actively repairing themselves using space debris. 

This depends what's still canon. In the Natah quest, Hunhow is still actively generating fresh waves of Battalysts and Conculysts on the regular, which is the exact opposite your theory. However, the damage Natah is unable to heal from in New War would prove your theory correct

This is, of course, assuming we even know how Sentient biology works in the first place

[Lakais]

2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Detron Crewman synthesis. "To travel the rails [Void based transportation] would destroy them."

This doesn't anwser my question. I don't know of any source that states that the Sentients jumped in as one giant fleet and that Praghasa was somehow a big "shield" that let the Sentients survive the trip at all. 

I will admit that my theories to Praghasa have equally as little to back it up other then the 2018 teaser and a whole bloody invasion fleet it has. I mean, where was this back in the Old War? 

There is an equally big chance that it did take part in the Old War but was knocked out and left wandering the Oort cloud up until now. 

2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This depends what's still canon. In the Natah quest, Hunhow is still actively generating fresh waves of Battalysts and Conculysts on the regular, which is the exact opposite your theory. However, the damage Natah is unable to heal from in New War would prove your theory correct

This is anwsered by Hunhow stating that he's sending his "fragments". A thing backed up by Eidolons. Hunhow's forces were Hunhow itself. Parts of him remolded into soldiers and whatever dormant Sentients were hidden around under his control. Just like all the Vombvalysts and the large eidolons on the Plains are just semi-independent fragments of the main Eidolon itself. Combat drones left wandering without commands. 

So when it comes to Hunhow's forces, it's just likely that he is throwing all that he can spare of himself at us. During The New War, I believe all he has left is the Stalker. As I don't think he deployes any drones at all, relying solely on the Stalker's capabilities. A mind left within a shell that needs an agent to achieve anything. 

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, Lakais said:

This doesn't anwser my question. I don't know of any source that states that the Sentients jumped in as one giant fleet and that Praghasa was somehow a big "shield" that let the Sentients survive the trip at all. 

That part is speculation, but with how HUGE Praghasa is, why wouldn't they ride in her?

4 hours ago, Lakais said:

This is anwsered by Hunhow stating that he's sending his "fragments". A thing backed up by Eidolons. Hunhow's forces were Hunhow itself. Parts of him remolded into soldiers and whatever dormant Sentients were hidden around under his control. Just like all the Vombvalysts and the large eidolons on the Plains are just semi-independent fragments of the main Eidolon itself. Combat drones left wandering without commands. 

So when it comes to Hunhow's forces, it's just likely that he is throwing all that he can spare of himself at us. During The New War, I believe all he has left is the Stalker. As I don't think he deployes any drones at all, relying solely on the Stalker's capabilities. A mind left within a shell that needs an agent to achieve anything. 

Kinda missing my point: if we were to treat gameplay as canon (which DE sometimes does) Hunhow has unlimited fragments. No end to the legions of -lysts he can throw at us, and then regenerate after.

But as both you and I point out, that does contradict New War, where Hunhow is either out of -lysts or only has a handful left (I forget if there were any Sentients in that Sealab or not) and Natah is in even worse shape

[Atsia]

14 hours ago, Lakais said:

Where is this stated?

It was a comment by Steve, either on a Devstream or a personal stream. All the Sentients had been in the system already, they were just dormant and waiting to get the call for mobilization that Natah was supposed to send out at the end of the Old War without Ballas' interference and The Lotus personality forming.

 

14 hours ago, Lakais said:

If I'm not mistaken their ability to not die directly to Void exposure was simply the product of the Sentient's adaption ability. It's just Void is something they can't completely become immune to and sterility is the one thing they can't deal with. 

The Void is something they can't adapt to at all, thus why brief exposure resets them. Being wholesale in the Void just fully kills them, as seen in Octavia's Anthem where Hunhow had to co-opt Suda to create shielding for his fragments to enter a Void Tower, and even then were still slowly dying, thus they're "Decaying".

14 hours ago, Lakais said:

My theory here is that by "sterile" it means the sentients in question can't generate more mass and thus split off into more individuals.

Sterile here is that they can't make more individual Sentient minds like Hunhow, Natah, The Plains Sentient, etc. They can make fragments all day from those spawning pools on the Murex, but they're all just mindless drones, no autonomy or initiative.

[Lakais]

On 2023-06-24 at 8:12 PM, TARINunit9 said:

That part is speculation

Isn't it all at this point? But good points all around. Though I am still doubtful as to how that would save them. Did they form up into some dense ball and the Void has some limit as to how much material it can penetrate? Probably looking too deeply into it, if I am honest. 

On 2023-06-25 at 2:20 AM, Atsia said:

It was a comment by Steve

If that is true and it wasn't him just spitballing something off the cuff as a "maybe" to throw at the story wall to see if it sticks, then it is so. I doubt anyone here has the patience to go through every single tweet threat or stream he's been in. Might just be one of those things where we have to badger confirmations out of the new head honcho. 

On 2023-06-25 at 2:20 AM, Atsia said:

The Void is something they can't adapt to at all, thus why brief exposure resets them. Being wholesale in the Void just fully kills them, as seen in Octavia's Anthem where Hunhow had to co-opt Suda to create shielding for his fragments to enter a Void Tower, and even then were still slowly dying, thus they're "Decaying".

Sterile here is that they can't make more individual Sentient minds like Hunhow, Natah, The Plains Sentient, etc. They can make fragments all day from those spawning pools on the Murex, but they're all just mindless drones, no autonomy or initiative.

Though I have my doubts, you are very likely right. There might be one possible problem with this scenario: Lotus/Natah. Not only is she a Sentient. But unless she moved her office to Lua after it was pulled out of the Void, she has been sitting there in her chair doing Lotus things, in the Void without burning up into dust. Orokin have the Warframe equivalent of a Geller field? I mean, Suda does kind of make one. 
And while it is entirely possible, even likely that Natah was around from the very start, there are no mentions of her doing anything else before she took on the form of Margulis. Then again, the best spies are the ones that never get found out and that was her specialty as some special mimic. So it is also not likely that she was somehow made speciffically for this task. 

I will concede that you are right and I have headcanoned a bit too hard. Though I still think my hypothesis was, if not better, cooler. 

[Felsagger]

DE is way too tight lipped about this topic. Maybe they are working on soulsframe, their future plans for the game, if any, are on hold. 

[Atsia]

2 hours ago, Lakais said:

There might be one possible problem with this scenario: Lotus/Natah

No, you're absolutely right in that Lotus is a case that raises questions. I'd assume her chamber is just shielded like void towers are, but there's not particular hint to any particular explanation.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Atsia

[MaxTunnerX]

Just to make sure I voice this - Im very disappointed that duviri is the current update instead of tau and the man in the wall. I dont want to repeat what I dont like about duviri, but on top of it all, its a complete sidetrack. It would have been much more logical and powerful if we had got tau now.

Edited June 26, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Atsia]

46 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Just to make sure I voice this - Im very disappointed that duviri is the current update instead of tau and the man in the wall. I dont want to repeat what I dont like about duviri, but on top of it all, its a complete sidetrack. It would have been much more logical and powerful if we had got tau now.

Why? There's no reason to go to Tau, and it would be more prudent to explain the brand new character and mechanics you just introduced to your story. Plus, we are exploring The Man in the Wall, every major update since New War has introduced new things about him and his interaction with the universe.

[Prexades]

I think it was mentioned that Tau is actually short for Tau Ceti.  A star which relatively similar to our own sun. It might have been the best candidate for colonization but the distance of 12ly is hard to cross unless some space magic like void jumps are used and in Warframe the Void is where things get really weird.

The Sentients were self replicating robotic drones tasked with making the system habitable but the Orokin lost control over them.

Not sure what DE wants to do with Tau but I guess we will learn more soon. Either that or the DE is holding Tau in reserve as a location for Warframe 2.

[TARINunit9]

On 2023-06-24 at 1:24 AM, Lakais said:

Where is this stated? Considering the reveal teaser trailer for The New War from 2018 shows it coming in from outside the system, far reaches of the Oort cloud, I presume. 

It's implied by Natah's memories that the entire Praghasa Dynasty attacked the solar system during the Old War -- meaning Hunhow, Erra, Natah, and Praghasa herself. After Erra's first death on Lua and Hunhow's defeat on Uranus, Praghasa retreated to the oort cloud