SliceOfHead Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 FR: Remove manual extraction option on zariman for hosts only. Motivation: - To prevent leaving everyone without rewards. Currently, when host extracts, forcing host migration, the migration process may fail in a horrific way, leaving everyone -- except host -- without rewards; or otherwise make the bounty unplayable/unfinishable. Essentially, wasting everybody' time. - Do not believe host-migration issues will ever be fixed, so no point in suggesting that instead. - People may actually know this will happen, so they abuse the issue or just don't care for others. - There's an argument that toxic people may start to abuse this the other way -- preventing host to leave; but I assume some compromise has to be made, since allowing teammates to safely leave outweighs this ~3-to-1. Otherwise, worrying the host will leave and break the game just pushes you away from public toward solo/premades, i.e. toxicity forces you away from the game. Example 1: Was doing public bounty (exterminate), got everyone, got angel, host extracts right away, -- host migration fails, everyone returned to zariman, but there're no rewards, ui is broken (game assumes we are at relay), have to return to orbiter to resume. Example 2: Was doing bounty (exterminate, Melica). Was really unlucky finding Melica, but got the accolade, host became impatient and left, me and other temmate migrated, but the accolade transformed into ???mobile-defense-key???, so the bounty couldn't be completed, forcing us to abort. Couldn't find the second Melica either, dunno if related to host-migration or not. NOTE: It would be fair to mention, that host-migration failing in this way doesn't happen too often, but: - overall, people are really impatient during high-level zariman missions, so they extract right-away, so host-migration does happen fairly often - and when it fails, it fails bad for the entire squad (except host obv) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Krism- Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, SliceOfHead said: FR: Remove manual extraction option on zariman for hosts only. I don't think the French can remove the manual extraction /s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliceOfHead Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, -Krism- said: I don't think the French can remove the manual extraction /s Well, it may as well try, as there's no hope otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaZeku Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 As a compromise so the Host can't be indefinitely "held hostage" by a trolling Squad, maybe allow the Host to trigger an extraction countdown? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReddyDisco Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, -Krism- said: I don't think the French can remove the manual extraction /s The French can revolutionize a new extraction 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliceOfHead Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said: As a compromise so the Host can't be indefinitely "held hostage" by a trolling Squad, maybe allow the Host to trigger an extraction countdown? Yeah, that make sense 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)CaligulaTwily Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said: As a compromise so the Host can't be indefinitely "held hostage" by a trolling Squad, maybe allow the Host to trigger an extraction countdown? Has that ever happened? Three Whole Trolls in a squad, holding One Host hostage? Preposterous! I have never seen a single "I was held hostage for thirty minutes" post, but I've seen many, many, many "the host screwed the whole squad by extracting and causing host migration" posts. I've made one myself. Solo extraction on the Zariman is a Mistake. I will not play those missions except for the literal bare minimum to unlock stuff. The missions have the *potential* to be enjoyable, but I Will Not Play Them "for fun" because host migration. Zariman Missions Suck 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkhar Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 You wanna extract while other 3 wanna stay? God forbid. Just communicate/follow people on map/minimap. See who the host is and extract with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said: Has that ever happened? Three Whole Trolls in a squad, holding One Host hostage? Preposterous! I have never seen a single "I was held hostage for thirty minutes" post, but I've seen many, many, many "the host screwed the whole squad by extracting and causing host migration" posts. I've made one myself. Yes it has happened when Zariman was first introduced there were many threads just like that which is why DE introduced the Extract Button, to allow players to leave even when the rest of the squad wanted to stay and collect medallions, fight angel, etc. Players asked for the ability to solo extract! They gave it to us, now players want the opposite. UGH, can't please anyone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: Yes it has happened when Zariman was first introduced there were many threads just like that which is why DE introduced the Extract Button, to allow players to leave even when the rest of the squad wanted to stay and collect medallions, fight angel, etc. Players asked for the ability to solo extract! They gave it to us, now players want the opposite. UGH, can't please anyone. The only way I can see this with some appeasement is that, if none of the others can Host, just force the game to solo for each remaining squad member. But I'm uncertain if that is already implemented and its still dependent in the player connecting to the servers to retrieve their data... and that is failing too, which results in returning to the Orbiter with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MutoManiac Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Like someone alteady mentioned, a one or even two minute timer countdown is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silligoose Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 3 hours ago, SliceOfHead said: FR: Remove manual extraction option on zariman for hosts only. Motivation: - To prevent leaving everyone without rewards. Currently, when host extracts, forcing host migration, the migration process may fail in a horrific way, leaving everyone -- except host -- without rewards; or otherwise make the bounty unplayable/unfinishable. Essentially, wasting everybody' time. - Do not believe host-migration issues will ever be fixed, so no point in suggesting that instead. - People may actually know this will happen, so they abuse the issue or just don't care for others. - There's an argument that toxic people may start to abuse this the other way -- preventing host to leave; but I assume some compromise has to be made, since allowing teammates to safely leave outweighs this ~3-to-1. Otherwise, worrying the host will leave and break the game just pushes you away from public toward solo/premades, i.e. toxicity forces you away from the game. Example 1: Was doing public bounty (exterminate), got everyone, got angel, host extracts right away, -- host migration fails, everyone returned to zariman, but there're no rewards, ui is broken (game assumes we are at relay), have to return to orbiter to resume. Example 2: Was doing bounty (exterminate, Melica). Was really unlucky finding Melica, but got the accolade, host became impatient and left, me and other temmate migrated, but the accolade transformed into ???mobile-defense-key???, so the bounty couldn't be completed, forcing us to abort. Couldn't find the second Melica either, dunno if related to host-migration or not. NOTE: It would be fair to mention, that host-migration failing in this way doesn't happen too often, but: - overall, people are really impatient during high-level zariman missions, so they extract right-away, so host-migration does happen fairly often - and when it fails, it fails bad for the entire squad (except host obv) Yeah I didn't like the manual host extraction option for Zariman from the start. I don't like the nullifying effect of the extraction point either. Just bad ideas that somehow was greenlit. Let there be a countdown timer of a minute as with some other missions and then a host migration if other want to stay. Additionally remove the nullifying field. They can go so far as to keep the nullifying field, remove the ability to attack from within extraction, but make the frame invincible the first time a player enters the extraction zone (to prevent some sort of abuse), so people don't have to sit around and stare at the screen for 1 min to ensure they don't die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaZeku Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zakkhar said: You wanna extract while other 3 wanna stay? God forbid. Just communicate/follow people on map/minimap. See who the host is and extract with him. ... this topic is about when THE HOST is the one who wants to extract, is not communicating with the Squad, is not giving anyone even a chance to extract together, and instead is immediately forcing a host migration on everyone else, which of course can, and will, break all sorts of stuff. Edited July 21, 2023 by NinjaZeku 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hikuro-93 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 5 hours ago, NinjaZeku said: As a compromise so the Host can't be indefinitely "held hostage" by a trolling Squad, maybe allow the Host to trigger an extraction countdown? Yes, precisely this. Do not allow hosts to simply force a host migration on the rest of the team, but at least allow them a warning timer so others can get to extraction. And yes, I've been host plenty. I always wait for 1-2 minutes before solo extracting, and give people time to decide what they want. I'm all for this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkhar Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said: ... this topic is about when THE HOST is the one who wants to extract, is not communicating with the Squad, DId he teleport into the extraction room? You cant clearly see one of the players going away after a rotation? Especially the host. You can see the host has number 1 in the squad UI. Edited July 21, 2023 by Zakkhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkhar Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said: Do not allow hosts to simply force a host migration on the rest of the team, but at least allow them a warning timer so others can get to extraction. They were given a timer. They got map and common sense. If a guy runs away from the group for some reason he is either leeeching (bad) / or going straight to extraction. Just follow him. And you should not assume people do it out of evil reasons. They may not realise they are host, they may not realise that host migration causes something bad, they may not realise many things. PS: I always run long endurance solo or with premade. Radoms be randoms. Edited July 21, 2023 by Zakkhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hikuro-93 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zakkhar said: They were given a timer. They got map and common sense. If a guy runs away from the group for some reason he is either leeeching (bad) / or going straight to extraction. Just follow him. Yeah, been there, done that. Have you ever gone after the host just to have a host migration right at the elevator door, because you were 0.2 seconds slower than the Host? Because I have. More than once. Or during Exterminate when the teleport orb waypoint is duplicated and misleads players into going to a fake extraction 300 meters away from the actual teleport point. I fully stand by what I said, and I know what I'm talking about. Edited July 21, 2023 by (PSN)Hikuro-93 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkhar Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 minute ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said: Have you ever gone after the host just to have a host migration right at the elevator door, because you were 0.2 seconds slower than the Host? Yup. But never got me any buggs. However I still decided to run solo. Too many incompetent or freeloadinng players in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaZeku Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 53 minutes ago, Zakkhar said: And you should not assume people do it out of evil reasons. Please quote a person who said anything like this. Don't chastise people based on something that didn't happen. That's weird. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quxier Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Or just save players' drop as soon someone (maybe only host) enter extraction zone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 If you're going to propose a special restriction for Hosts then players ought to also have the ability to Choose to be Host vs Client first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkhar Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, quxier said: Or just save players' drop as soon someone (maybe only host) enter extraction zone. Actually fix the issue with host migrations casuing people to lose progress? Nah. BTW, do we really lose progress? Isnt this just visual? Mission timer starts from begining, so the prizes too. But it doesnt mean there was not a final mission results during the migration that we did not see, that had all out progress in it. Edited July 23, 2023 by Zakkhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem... Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 This has happened to me a few times in Zarmian, I only do the missions solo now or with invited friends. Its frustrating to lose your rewards on these missions as they take a long time to complete, for me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ARC_Paroe Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) On 2023-07-22 at 8:05 PM, Zakkhar said: Actually fix the issue with host migrations casuing people to lose progress? Nah. BTW, do we really lose progress? Isnt this just visual? Mission timer starts from begining, so the prizes too. But it doesnt mean there was not a final mission results during the migration that we did not see, that had all out progress in it. You do lose your rewards. It counts as you dropping connection so a new mission at the current completion stage is started. Its why long free-roam runs were absolutely ruined by host migration until DE added the whole "saves after every bounty stage" thing. Even then, if you abandon a free roam you lose all your affinity rewards. Edited July 24, 2023 by (PSN)ARC_Paroe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Player244024418 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 On 2023-07-21 at 10:25 AM, SliceOfHead said: Remove manual extraction option on zariman for hosts only. I'd be fine with this if it had the 60 sec timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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