Energy siphon is kinda useless

[(PSN)LoneRatatouille]

14 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Energy Siphon with Nourish is pretty good. Since Nourish boosts energy from all sources you can turn that 0.6 energy into 2 energy a second on a build with 200% power strength. 

To be fair thats more representative of how good of an ability nourish is then of the power of energy siphon

[Leqesai]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)LoneRatatouille said:

To be fair thats more representative of how good of an ability nourish is then of the power of energy siphon

I suppose that's probably why I didn't say Energy Siphon, by itself, is powerful.

[Absolute_Kriatura]

What if it worked as his name implies?? siphoning energy at fixed intervals of 15sec from any enemy 10m around you, maybe with a cap of 10-15 enemies and the regen lowered to 0.4??

[(PSN)LoneRatatouille]

 

18 minutes ago, Somnium_Bellator said:

What if it worked as his name implies?? siphoning energy at fixed intervals of 15sec from any enemy 10m around you, maybe with a cap of 10-15 enemies and the regen lowered to 0.4??

That sounds like a genuinely fun and creative way for it to work but that's sounds like it would be a bug fest if mutiple people are running it

[Hexerin]

You won't see me disagree with a buff to Energy Siphon. It's absolutely needed, to bring the mod back to relevance.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Aura mod buffs stack in a team of 4 players.

Games reward using teamwork and tactics. So if you have 4 people all using Energy Siphon, it's a lot more and obviously will stack with whatever other energy sources you have. 

[PhiZero]

My memory is pretty hazy on this as it was a decade ago, but there was a time where Energy Siphon restored more than 0.6 EPS. (I think it was 2 EPS on initial release? It was nerfed really quickly.)

At the time all auras were stackable as they are now, and I think we only had Rejuvenation, Steel Charge, Rifle Amp, Shield Amp, Corrosive Projection and Energy Siphon.

Though the consensus for year 1 was to stack Energy Siphon in a full squad; which, 4 EPS is considered pretty amazing, but 8 EPS? Across 4 players without diminishing returns? It was majestic to say the least.

It got nerfed to its current state of 0.6 to encourage team coordination and maintain 2.4 EPS with all 4 auras slotted with it; but, the community didn't take kindly to this and jumped on Corrosive Projection as the new default pick, revealing its issues and giving it a nerf bat as well.

Rejuvenation though...yeah, that has kinda always been the black sheep of the family, and could really use some love as a full stack of 12 HPS isn't that amazing. (For late game anyways.)

Edit: The 0.6 EPS value is also from an era of Warframe when Auras were significantly weaker compared to now, with modern values being tweaks to bring other auras in line with Silver Grove auras and Corrosive Projection in viability.

Edited August 16, 2023 by PhiZero

[ShogunGunshow]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Aura mod buffs stack in a team of 4 players.

And it underperforms even when stacked to 4.

Which won't happen, because 99% of the time people don't coordinate because we usually just queue.

Like, seriously, what an absolute brainlet do you have to be to go through the effort to organize a group, and then say 'hey guys, you know what we should do? let's not get a free 100% power strength bonus, reduce enemy armor by 72% passively, or get 600% of the energy we spend as shields - let's trade any of those options and others to get a stonking 2.4 energy per second, because I somehow struggle to obtain the most easily obtainable resource in the game. And nobody here better run Arcane Energize, or a frame that generates energy, or bring pizzas, or run a Dethcube with an energy generator, or kill enemies at a reasonable rate, or bring the most used Focus school that gives 5 energy per second. Nobody better do any of that."

🤷‍♂️

IMO, this aura mod should be buffed and should drop on, like, Earth. Newbies should get it early, so that maybe they get to cast their abilities a little more because, ironically, while energy abundance is ridiculous at midgame and beyond, energy starvation is easily the sh*ttiest part of the very early game.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, ShogunGunshow said:

IMO, this aura mod should be buffed and should drop on, like, Earth. Newbies should get it early, so that maybe they get to cast their abilities a little more because, ironically, while energy abundance is ridiculous at midgame and beyond, energy starvation is easily the sh*ttiest part of the very early game.

It’s not that bad, and a bit of halfway-decent playing can reduce weird spikes in difficulty. A bunch of bad players leaning on endless ability spam like a crutch and then insisting that everyone should play like that is much more of a pain to witness. Endless ability spam is an option to build for, not the default, and the current incarnation of Energy Siphon is one of those mods that may seem useless to a bunch of energy-sucking power junkies, but can be worth the slot for someone who exercises a modicum of consideration for when to use their abilities and is deciding between optional energy generators or something else

Now why it’s an Aura mod when your typical teammate’s drinking energy like the Cult of Power’s Kuva Koolaid they consumed on top of the mountain, that’s a little more questionable, though to be fair there’s not a lot worth bringing to a group fight that someone else is playing solo

[ShogunGunshow]

15 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

 that may seem useless to a bunch of energy-sucking power junkies, but can be worth the slot for someone who exercises a modicum of consideration for when to use their abilities and is deciding between optional energy generators or something else

Oh, gag me.

Look, man, you can justify to yourself your decision to make a suboptimal pick however you want, and I generally don't give a fudge what anyone in my squad brings because I try to be self-sufficient, but no one is 'big-brain' for taking Energy Siphon over other, better choices, anymore than players are 'bad' for ensuring they have the energy they need to cast their abilities when they want them. There's such a thing as opportunity cost, and the energy economy is such that what you're giving up to use Siphon is greater than what you're getting.

Like, if you need energy that bad, use Growing Power, and slap Streamline into your build. Take off Intensify if you're really strapped for space, because GP will be mostly offsetting its loss (assuming a baseline Intensify anyway because if you've maxed Umbral you're at the point where energy is a joke). Now you're helping your team, they're potentially generating more energy orbs over time for everyone, and your stuff is cheaper. Or ... you could take Siphon, and trickle out a piddling amount of energy over time, giving enough to cast one 25 energy skill every 41s, which not even all players will benefit from anyway because channeling.

Maybe it's my crutch, energy junky brain talking, but if I had to make a choice, I'd prefer the former situation every time. But, like I already said, I honestly don't give a shirt what aura mod my allies equip - unless they start acting like a smug hipster about it. I just want more compelling options for build-crafting, and if it helps newbies along the way, all the better. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

59 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Oh, gag me.

Look, man, you can justify to yourself your decision to make a suboptimal pick however you want, and I generally don't give a fudge what anyone in my squad brings because I try to be self-sufficient, but no one is 'big-brain' for taking Energy Siphon over other, better choices, anymore than players are 'bad' for ensuring they have the energy they need to cast their abilities when they want them. There's such a thing as opportunity cost, and the energy economy is such that what you're giving up to use Siphon is greater than what you're getting.

Like, if you need energy that bad, use Growing Power, and slap Streamline into your build. Take off Intensify if you're really strapped for space, because GP will be mostly offsetting its loss (assuming a baseline Intensify anyway because if you've maxed Umbral you're at the point where energy is a joke). Now you're helping your team, they're potentially generating more energy orbs over time for everyone, and your stuff is cheaper. Or ... you could take Siphon, and trickle out a piddling amount of energy over time, giving enough to cast one 25 energy skill every 41s, which not even all players will benefit from anyway because channeling.

Maybe it's my crutch, energy junky brain talking, but if I had to make a choice, I'd prefer the former situation every time. But, like I already said, I honestly don't give a shirt what aura mod my allies equip - unless they start acting like a smug hipster about it. I just want more compelling options for build-crafting, and if it helps newbies along the way, all the better. 

Your concept of what’s big-brained and what’s not has been warped by your energy-pickled thinking, possibly along with your concept of build-crafting. It’s an alternative way to build and play, but acting like it’s sub-par is right up there with my calling you a power junkie, which I wouldn’t if I wasn’t dealing with players who go around acting like the game should be designed around them because they’re Oh-So-Smart for stressing over things like opportunity cost in a videogame designed around variety and telling players “Better get used to boring-ass grind” when you jump into someone’s mission and hog all the game with your self-sufficient Solo Co-Op playstyle.

Even if it was slightly buffed I would probably be okay with it because it just needs to be a constant trickle of energy when there’s no other source of energy generation because those other sources are replaced with something else, which it already is. I’m not going sit here and think that it needs to fulfill whatever power junkie criteria you’re inventing though, and definitely I don’t agree with some newbie winding up like you who end up sticking to a few options because they never learned how to work with alternative playstyles that they may actually prefer if they weren’t crutched on endless energy

Edited August 16, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Your concept of what’s big-brained and what’s not has been warped by your energy-pickled thinking, possibly along with your concept of build-crafting. It’s an alternative way to build and play, but acting like it’s sub-par is right up there with my calling you a power junkie, which I wouldn’t if I wasn’t dealing with players who go around acting like the game should be designed around them because they’re Oh-So-Smart for stressing over things like opportunity cost in a videogame designed around variety and telling players “Better get used to boring-ass grind” when you jump into someone’s mission and hog all the game with your self-sufficient Solo Co-Op playstyle.

Even if it was slightly buffed I would probably be okay with it because it just needs to be a constant trickle of energy when there’s no other source of energy generation because those other sources are replaced with something else, which it already is. I’m not going sit here and think that it needs to fulfill whatever power junkie criteria you’re inventing though, and definitely I don’t agree with some newbie winding up like you who end up sticking to a few options because they never learned how to work with alternative playstyles that they may actually prefer if they weren’t crutched on endless energy

Well said.

I do think it should be noted that the concept of energy siphon being a small constant trickle of energy should not be overlooked. In its current state it is useful. It won't break the bank but it has its uses. There are plenty of times when you aren't using abilities. The extra little bit of energy is nice.

It also pairs well with a lot of other sources of energy gain we have nowadays if you don't want to slot another aura. Auras, BTW, aren't that good across the board. There are a few outliers but for the most part the effects are relatively small. That's by design and I don't think I have ever been in a position where I have needed them to be stronger.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Leqesai

[Marvelous_A]

With Nourish it's pretty good. I otherwise only use it on Loki for sustaining Invisibility,

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Well said.

I do think it should be noted that the concept of energy siphon being a small constant trickle of energy should not be overlooked. In its current state it is useful. It won't break the bank but it has its uses. There are plenty of times when you aren't using abilities. The extra little bit of energy is nice.

It also pairs well with a lot of other sources of energy gain we have nowadays if you don't want to slot another aura. Auras, BTW, aren't that good across the board. There are a few outliers but for the most part the effects are relatively small. That's by design and I don't think I have ever been in a position where I have needed them to be stronger.

I don’t feel great arguing with someone over this stuff and calling them names, but damn if I’m not still bitter that I had to go out of my way and actively do the opposite of what I was told to do in order to really explore the game and discover that a lot of the stuff that I once thought was useless was stuff that provided more nuanced gameplay or was simply useful in different ways (among other points of contention that ultimately shorten my fuse)

I get the idea that its current incarnation for one person doesn’t seem that impressive, but Energy Siphon is one of those mods that has a restrained-yet-noticeable impact on gameplay; sometimes it’s all I need to augment the baseline experience of picking up energy orbs when I decide to go a little more ability-focused and it provides that little bit of buffer when I’m already being considerate about where and when to either keep an ability in the back pocket or bring it out to shift how a fight goes. And yeah, sometimes it’s not hard at all to choose it over an alternative Aura due to what I’m fighting or how I want to play even for solo (because a multiplayer squad by choice doesn’t typically need my help for the mission)

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I don’t feel great arguing with someone over this stuff and calling them names, but damn if I’m not still bitter that I had to go out of my way and actively do the opposite of what I was told to do in order to really explore the game and discover that a lot of the stuff that I once thought was useless was stuff that provided more nuanced gameplay or was simply useful in different ways (among other points of contention that ultimately shorten my fuse)

I get the idea that its current incarnation for one person doesn’t seem that impressive, but Energy Siphon is one of those mods that has a restrained-yet-noticeable impact on gameplay; sometimes it’s all I need to augment the baseline experience of picking up energy orbs when I decide to go a little more ability-focused and it provides that little bit of buffer when I’m already being considerate about where and when to either keep an ability in the back pocket or bring it out to shift how a fight goes. And yeah, sometimes it’s not hard at all to choose it over an alternative Aura due to what I’m fighting or how I want to play even for solo (because a multiplayer squad by choice doesn’t typically need my help for the mission)

Exactly

[(NSW)Greybones]

17 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Exactly

Feels weird to be agreed with for what amounts to irrational thought according to common wisdom. Being merely sufficient instead of swimming in power often feels taboo, despite this being a game where the 1% at the top is simply another way to build and play compared to the rest of the game

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

The 0.6 energy is decent if you're stacking it with zenurik or Limbo's rift...

[Mieo_Mio]

Stack it with  Coaction Drift, and Zenurik Wellspring. It's still worth it. 

[RichardKam]

2023/8/15 PM10点15分 , (PSN)LoneRatatouille 说:

The energy it generates (0.6 per second, ) is simply to small to be worth dedicating your aura slot to  it especially since every  other energy generation method (zenurik well spring, arcane energys, equilibrium...)  by far out shines it.

If it gave 2 energy per second like archon stretch or (even better increased the energy provided by energy sources like grendel's nourish [matching the name energy siphon even better]) the mod might finally be effective enough to be worth using over other aura's

 

One single energy siphon is enough to sustain a perma invisible loki, without using any subsume, arcanes or specific focus school.

[SneakyErvin]

Not everything needs to be equally great in every situation.

Energy Siphon has its uses, it is an alternative to Zenurik combined with Nourish, gives a far bigger return aswell if you build for efficiency, since it suddenly only needs to rebuild 1/4th of the energy before you can cast something. Out of all the auras it is atleast one worth slotting compared to the majority that are total trash.

Combat Disc, Energy Siphon, Brief Respite, Power Donation, Growing Power, Swift Momentum and Steel Charge are the ones I can think of that are decently useful depending on what you try to achieve.

[(PSN)LoneRatatouille]

13 hours ago, Hexerin said:

You won't see me disagree with a buff to Energy Siphon. It's absolutely needed, to bring the mod back to relevance.

The mod greatly under performes compare to eny other energy generation method

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, (PSN)LoneRatatouille said:

The mod greatly under performes compare to eny other energy generation method

Apples to oranges.

[(PSN)LoneRatatouille]

On 2023-08-15 at 3:49 PM, ShogunGunshow said:

I like Quick Thinking as a tank layer, but you kinda have to build around it with some form of passive or active healing (Arcane Grace, Vazarin's Squad Regen, etc.), Quick Thinking (prevents death by taking energy when you're at 2 health at 240% efficiency (1 energy = 2.4 health), affected by any DR you have), Rage or Hunter Adrenaline (to convert health damage to energy), and ideally some form of increase to your max health and/or energy. In short, it can be pretty mod/arcane/helminth intensive.

It's gotten a little bit easier to get certain points active with the advent of archon shards, and the energy gain from Rage is multiplied by things like Nourish, but it still needs to be a little less mod-tax demanding to become commonplace.

... What were we talking about? Oh right.

Considering that you'd probably have to coordinate to get to 8 e/s, and considering that that amount is laughably overshadowed by a Harrow, or Nourish Styanax, or Voracious Metastasis Hildryn, or Trinity, or any other frame that can regen squad energy, not to mention energy pizzas, I'm going to say that the squad giving up something like +100% power strength on status (basically up 99.99% of the time) for 8 e/s is a big fat nothingburger.

It's still better then 2.4 if an e tire squad brings it

[Hexerin]

8 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Apples to oranges.

Incorrect usage of that phrase. We're comparing [Energy Regen] to [Energy Regen] here, so the comparisons are direct.

[RichardKam]

17分钟前 , Hexerin 说:

Incorrect usage of that phrase. We're comparing [Energy Regen] to [Energy Regen] here, so the comparisons are direct.

Nothing beats the Squad Energy Restore then......