Warframe that need to be rework and what kind of ability should they have?

[Raarsi]

Definitely Inaros, because he's a health sponge without anything that makes a health sponge functional on top of basically all of his abilities and his passive being nearly useless.

Definitely Hydroid, because of how generally underwhelming his kit is compared to other frames.

Definitely Chroma, because his breath attack should be a standard cone attack rather than a channeled ability, the effects of Vex Armor should be swapped (damage up on damage to shields and armor up on damage to health), and Effigy would be better off as a stationary totem pulsing some sort of high-powered debuff.

Probably Caliban, although I think the problem is that people keep trying to have his 1 and 3 make sense.

Probably Loki just for better functionality with his decoys (so long as they don't touch his 2).

Probably Titania because let's face it, no sane player is using any part of her kit other than her 4.

[SneakyErvin]

Inaros and Hydroid could certainly use reworks. Hydroid because he is just bad and Inaros because he practically does nothing and only has his insane health going for him. I wouldnt mind some Nyx tweaks. A big improvement would be to turn Chaos into actual radiation with maxed stacks.

17 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

No he's not and we have been asking for buffs to his kit for years.

And he got his buff with the recent armor strip changes. Right now he's a monster. Great tank stats, sustain for health and energy, status immunity, armor strip, radiation CC and some serious offense depending how you spend your Helminth. It's like Rhino and Frost with the recent changes that have come to the game, which have turned them from "meh" outdated to "wowza!" beasts for practically anything they decide to do.

The latest few changes that passively buffed Frost have been the greatest 10 year anniversary gifts I could have gotten. The son of northern darkness is back in business and business is good. 🤘🤘

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Inaros and Hydroid could certainly use reworks. Hydroid because he is just bad and Inaros because he practically does nothing and only has his insane health going for him. I wouldnt mind some Nyx tweaks. A big improvement would be to turn Chaos into actual radiation with maxed stacks.

And he got his buff with the recent armor strip changes. Right now he's a monster. Great tank stats, sustain for health and energy, status immunity, armor strip, radiation CC and some serious offense depending how you spend your Helminth. It's like Rhino and Frost with the recent changes that have come to the game, which have turned them from "meh" outdated to "wowza!" beasts for practically anything they decide to do.

The latest few changes that passively buffed Frost have been the greatest 10 year anniversary gifts I could have gotten. The son of northern darkness is back in business and business is good. 🤘🤘

His armor strip buffs were great but giving your teammates 100hp/s with 400-500 armor is not that useful. His only usefulness is the status immunity and this hasnt changed since eidolon days. Calling him a monster is a huge exaggeration imo. He is one of my favorite frames but is in dire need of help. You are definitely over selling the overguard buffs to rhino and frost.

 

[sunderthefirmament]

19 hours ago, Rathalio said:

Oberon is S tier, don't touch him.

I think the reason Oberon rework requests show up from time to time is largely due to Wisp.  There's nothing Oberon can do that a Helminthed Wisp can't.  And she'll outclass him in basically every area.  She's got the heals, the debuffs, the tankiness, the radiation, and can get more potent armor strips from Helminth.  Oberon does have some unique augment niches, but I still think Wisp brings more to the table.  That said, it's not really fair to compare most frames to Wisp, as she has a ridiculously overstuffed kit.

 

21 hours ago, Bountyboy312 said:

List the Warframes that need to be rework 

Here's my list, in order of need:

1. Limbo, the grief frame.  There's nothing worth the disruptiveness and hassle in his kit.  Pseudo-invulnerability can be more readily achieved in dozens of other ways.  CC isn't worth much these days.  Give him a full blown rework and trash the rift as we know it.  There are plenty of ways to stick to his theme of interdimensional wizard without the clunk of the rift.
2. Hydroid, the obsolete farmer.  Khora ate him alive when she got her farming augment.  Yeah, she got nerfed a bit with the LoS on Whipclaw, but she's still a better frame.
3. Octavia, the brainless teabagger.  She's very, very strong, and can trivialize a lot of content.  But as a music frame, she's a catastrophic failure.  Optimal play involves muting her music and spamming crouch, while occasionally rolling your face across the first four number keys on your keyboard.
4. Gara, Khora, and Atlas, the statstickers.  Statstick frames need to be reworked and given proper exalted weapons, along with buffs and nerfs as needed.  All three of these frames are arguably powerful, but they all need help for their dependence on statsticks and other issues besides.  Khora's optimal gameplay loop is basically just spamming the 1 key again and again.  Atlas really only has 1 ability worth using.  Maintaining Gara's buffs is torturous.  The infinite cap on her damage and its extreme fragility make her the ultimate FOMO frame.
5. Inaros, the impotent tank.  He has his uses, but at least half of his kit is bad.  At a minimum, he deserves some access to overguard in his base kit.
6. Chroma, the egg-timer buff bot.  Chroma is boring to play.  There's nothing in his kit that adequately taps into his theme of elemental dragon master.  He's just a boring buff bot with two dead abilities and steadily shrinking relevance.
7. Trinity, the powercrept healer.  I don't think she needs a full rework, but at minimum her base buff durations should be doubled, and she could use some ways to refresh Link and Blessing (like how Voruna and Gyre have ways to refresh their buff durations without recasting).  Trinity also needs her full body casts to be less restrictive.  If you take her into high level play, she's basically always casting.

 

Beyond these, there are many frames that need some help on 1 or 2 abilities or have other blind spots in their kit that desperately need attention.  I love Ivara, but Navigator is too clunky for realistic use.  Caliban has some solid use cases, but his 1 is the worst ability in the game and his 3 needs work as well.  Yareli got some serious love when Voruna launched, but she still has a K Drive that needs a tap/hold option to give her some buffs while in a non K Drive state.  I could go on.

[SneakyErvin]

56 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

His armor strip buffs were great but giving your teammates 100hp/s with 400-500 armor is not that useful. His only usefulness is the status immunity and this hasnt changed since eidolon days. Calling him a monster is a huge exaggeration imo. He is one of my favorite frames but is in dire need of help. You are definitely over selling the overguard buffs to rhino and frost.

100hp/sec and 400-500 armor isnt that useful where exactly? It isnt like he has problems surviving between the high overall armor, access to shields and constant radiated enemies around him. And overselling the overguard changes? No not really since it gave them access to some very nice arcane options previously not really usable on them when using IS or the augment. Giving icy avalance the long awaited stacking aswell makes it far more useful considering you actually have a chance to stack it because everything also gets frozen. And when running a build focused around avalanche for the cc, strip and crit buffs you'll spam it frequently so you always have access to the extra 0.5 sec invulnerability. Combined with Brief Respite it works great, since each single cast grants you 2 individual immunities, and aslong as OG lasts the shield is allowed to reg aswell to potentially get the full gate before OG falls off. So you nearly always either sit at 0.83 or 1.8 seconds of immunity to react on.

[CoffeeElemental]

1 час назад, sunderthefirmament сказал:

Chroma, the egg-timer buff bot.

That's both funny and sad at the same time. The pain of missing VA timer is immeasurable. But how can it be improved tho? Making it into a channeling ability will make it incredibly energy hungry (and Chroma already is kinda energy hungry, just because of this buff).

1 час назад, sunderthefirmament сказал:

Trinity also needs her full body casts to be less restrictive.

I honestly think that only her Bless should have a full-body cast animation. The rest of her abilities should be upper-body only (or whatever it's called, the ones that do not prevent movement, but prevent using weapons). It wouldn't be too imbalanced imo. Getting rooted in place every 0.5 seconds gets irritating really quickly.

[sunderthefirmament]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeElemental said:

That's both funny and sad at the same time. The pain of missing VA timer is immeasurable. But how can it be improved tho? Making it into a channeling ability will make it incredibly energy hungry (and Chroma already is kinda energy hungry, just because of this buff).

Honestly, I don't think there's anything particularly compelling about Chroma as is, so I wouldn't be opposed to DE just removing all of his abilities and trying again.  But if people have sentimental attachment to Vex Armor, it could be enhanced with some refresh conditions, perhaps baked into the rest of his kit.  Every second using his 1 could give you 3-6 seconds on VA, or something.  Having the 4 active could freeze the durations of his 2 and 3.  I don't know.  I don't play that much Chroma because he's really boring.  You just maintain two buffs and use weapons.

 

I agree about Trinity though.  Upper body casts would help her a ton.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

I'm going to also suggest Harrow for a tweak too, he's the best at supporting himself mainly because he needs to kill stuff.

Not an issue solo of course but given the no brain required/every man for himself gameplay we have, he's a little behind the times.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

100hp/sec and 400-500 armor isnt that useful where exactly? It isnt like he has problems surviving between the high overall armor, access to shields and constant radiated enemies around him. And overselling the overguard changes? No not really since it gave them access to some very nice arcane options previously not really usable on them when using IS or the augment. Giving icy avalance the long awaited stacking aswell makes it far more useful considering you actually have a chance to stack it because everything also gets frozen. And when running a build focused around avalanche for the cc, strip and crit buffs you'll spam it frequently so you always have access to the extra 0.5 sec invulnerability. Combined with Brief Respite it works great, since each single cast grants you 2 individual immunities, and aslong as OG lasts the shield is allowed to reg aswell to potentially get the full gate before OG falls off. So you nearly always either sit at 0.83 or 1.8 seconds of immunity to react on.

500 armor does nothing even for frames with low armor. It will not provide any significant protection even at base sp. Thats not even debatable. Also there are already subsume abilities that give shield gate immunity twice like pillage and condemn(on top of frame specific ones). Overguard's only use is for that invulnerability period and status immunity. It is useless as actual defense. Overguard only gave rhino extra options for arcanes(unless there something im missing about frost). Once again, very much exaggerating. Overguard has helped some frames but it's not a great mechanic for what it's intended purpose was.

[Marvelous_A]

On 2023-08-16 at 12:35 AM, -Krism- said:

Oberon is good, I don't see why some want a complete rework for him

While he does a lot of things I don't really consider he's "good"at a certain thing. Especially his armor stripping is unnecessarily complicated and inconsistent for no apparent reason at all.

[GigabearPRIME]

Grendel could use some love.

 

How about an ability to eat forty enemies? I think that is just what he needs,

[Joezone619]

Limbo, his abilities have become outdated overtime.

The rift remains a very confusing concept and the 3 excavations + archwing mission of his quest do nothing to introduce you to who limbo is, what he does, what the rift is, how to use him, what situations hes good for, etc. If i were given the job of reworking limbo, i'd definitely rework his quest along with him and place it later in the junctions, closer to uranus or neptune.

Limbo himself however, his problem is that almost all his abilities do the same thing, banish/unbanish enemies. He needs a rework that allows for more options, I think his 1st and 3rd, and possibly even 4th should all be combined into a 4-parter ability that allows him to chain banish, AoE banish, Bubble banish, and unbanish all.

This would free up his 3rd and 4th for new abilities that actually interact with the rift like stasis does. For his 3rd it should be something based around space like how stasis is based around time. Maybe something that drags enemies closer to one another and/or allows limbo to teleport throughout the rift.

His 4th should be something big. Limbo's biggest advantage is his energy supply, so i think his 4th should be some sort of constant drain ability that makes use of this energy. It should give limbo survivability through damage reduction and if possible provide synergy with his 2nd and 3rd abilities. Something like "Limbo engolfs the rift around himself, blending it with reality allowing himself and allies to damage enemies on both planes while providing protection".

Above all else though, the rift needs better visuals. We need a better indication for when enemies and allies are in the rift then staring at the tiny black flames at their feet, in an age where headshots are getting more and more popular.

[Hexerin]

15 hours ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

Nyx needs a tweak or two, though you could argue she improves on higher level stuff.

14 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Nyx is harder to argue nowadays. Assimilate is an annoying augment, but the parkour speed shards have made it so much more tolerable. And she has an easy 100% defense strip and CC if she's suffering too much drain from incoming damage. She's pretty good, if still somewhat clunk, imo.

Only thing Nyx really needs is the damage multiplier on Mind Control being fixed. It's currently either just straight up not applying, or it's being applied as a negative value (as in, reducing the MC'd enemy's damage). Cause when an Eximus Heavy Gunner with over 1,000% is doing damage effectively on the level of friendly tickles to basic Corpus fodder, there's an issue.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

500 armor does nothing even for frames with low armor. It will not provide any significant protection even at base sp. Thats not even debatable. Also there are already subsume abilities that give shield gate immunity twice like pillage and condemn(on top of frame specific ones). Overguard's only use is for that invulnerability period and status immunity. It is useless as actual defense. Overguard only gave rhino extra options for arcanes(unless there something im missing about frost). Once again, very much exaggerating. Overguard has helped some frames but it's not a great mechanic for what it's intended purpose was.

Together with everything else that 500 armor and the HP reg does alot. Suddenly you sit at 1500 armor instead of 1000, which means higher ehp, so more for the reg to work with. I nearly only use armor based defense in SP and it lasts long in there. And that is even on frame with naturally low armor, so shards are used to make up for that. Which is enough together with modding, which is a no brainer since I already run 3x umbra on nearly all builds. 

And why waste a Helminth slot for pillage or condemn when overguard is already on your strip and CC ability in the case of Frost, while also providing just enough shields per cast to trigger yet another gate? Also, "Overguard has helped some frames", so which of them then since we only have 4 (5 if you count Rumbled lol) and apaprently you dont think Frost and Rhino benefit well from it. Yes they are probably the two that benefit most of it considering where their OG comes from while also benefitting from shields underneath. Styanax I havent tested since the latest patch and the cap getting added to him. The worst off is like the frame it was designed for i.e Kullervo, since he has a 33% lower cap than Frost and Styanax and no shields underneath.

18 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Overguard only gave rhino extra options for arcanes(unless there something im missing about frost).

All frames with Overguard benefit from the same thing. Frosts Icy Avalanche worked exactly like Iron Skin before, so neither worked with "on damaged" arcanes. Which they now do. The things they cannot trigger are "on health damage", so cannot utilize things like Grace. So for those two, they got the arcane interaction added and the 0.5 sec immunity, both being quite big buffs considering that the moment OG drops they likely also have full shields, so near 2 seconds of invulnerability, over 2 seconds if they are a bit slow to react, since you probably also run a energy-to-shields mod of some sort to get another brief invulnerability window on cast. Only frames close to that otherwise are Hildryn and Protea for instance. And only one of them benefit from status immunity (while OS is up), and neither are immune to Frost eximus either, plus magnetic can royally #*!% up Hildryn when it comes to recasting.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Together with everything else that 500 armor and the HP reg does alot. Suddenly you sit at 1500 armor instead of 1000, which means higher ehp, so more for the reg to work with. I nearly only use armor based defense in SP and it lasts long in there. And that is even on frame with naturally low armor, so shards are used to make up for that. Which is enough together with modding, which is a no brainer since I already run 3x umbra on nearly all builds. 

And why waste a Helminth slot for pillage or condemn when overguard is already on your strip and CC ability in the case of Frost, while also providing just enough shields per cast to trigger yet another gate? Also, "Overguard has helped some frames", so which of them then since we only have 4 (5 if you count Rumbled lol) and apaprently you dont think Frost and Rhino benefit well from it. Yes they are probably the two that benefit most of it considering where their OG comes from while also benefitting from shields underneath. Styanax I havent tested since the latest patch and the cap getting added to him. The worst off is like the frame it was designed for i.e Kullervo, since he has a 33% lower cap than Frost and Styanax and no shields underneath.

All frames with Overguard benefit from the same thing. Frosts Icy Avalanche worked exactly like Iron Skin before, so neither worked with "on damaged" arcanes. Which they now do. The things they cannot trigger are "on health damage", so cannot utilize things like Grace. So for those two, they got the arcane interaction added and the 0.5 sec immunity, both being quite big buffs considering that the moment OG drops they likely also have full shields, so near 2 seconds of invulnerability, over 2 seconds if they are a bit slow to react, since you probably also run a energy-to-shields mod of some sort to get another brief invulnerability window on cast. Only frames close to that otherwise are Hildryn and Protea for instance. And only one of them benefit from status immunity (while OS is up), and neither are immune to Frost eximus either, plus magnetic can royally #*!% up Hildryn when it comes to recasting.

Frost could already trigger all of those things with his health and shields so I don't see your point. Overguard did not benefit him in any way in that regard.

[(PSN)LoneRatatouille]

Not a rework a quality of life change garudas first ability should have a visual indicator for when the enemy fall bellow 40% hp so you know if there low enough to execute with your dread mirror 

[-Krism-]

17 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

While he does a lot of things I don't really consider he's "good"at a certain thing. Especially his armor stripping is unnecessarily complicated and inconsistent for no apparent reason at all.

I never use armor stripping abilities ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

11 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

I never use armor stripping abilities ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Frost could already trigger all of those things with his health and shields so I don't see your point. Overguard did not benefit him in any way in that regard.

But he couldnt with Icy Avalanche, that is the point. So Frost got passively buffed in many many ways in these last few patch.

1 more invulnerability window, interaction with certain arcanes while using the augment that gives him that window, plus it scales with strength and stacks. So you are looking at easily obtained 30k+ OG instead of sub 2k. He has practically turned into a better Hildryn since his defense is not his resource pool aswell. Which IMO makes it a perfect time to buff Hildryn's shield gate so it has a 0.5 second window when OS is gone.

[Waeleto]

Hydroid: less water pile and more tentacles, change his damage type to corrosive

Inaros: rework his 3rd ability completely but leave the rest as it is, either implement negation swarm into his base kit or make so it doesn't consume scarab armor

Oberon: he is good but needs his numbers and ratios GREATLY increased to be able to at least compete with wisp and citrine, maybe implement either smite infusion or pheonix renewal into his base kit as it feels like most of what he offers is in augments

[TheGodofWiFi]

Hydroid has already been implied by Pablo to be the next frame on the rework list. So he'll be getting a rework before anyone else does and frankly he needs it the most out of every single frame in the game as he is just the worst.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Waeleto said:

Hydroid: less water pile and more tentacles, change his damage type to corrosive

Inaros: rework his 3rd ability completely but leave the rest as it is, either implement negation swarm into his base kit or make so it doesn't consume scarab armor

Oberon: he is good but needs his numbers and ratios GREATLY increased to be able to at least compete with wisp and citrine, maybe implement either smite infusion or pheonix renewal into his base kit as it feels like most of what he offers is in augments

One thing they could add to Inaros is some synergy between Scarab Swarm and his #1. So when you kill someone with a finisher while they are under the effect of #1 x% of Scarab Swarm is replenished and they could make it scale with strength or duration aswell.

[sunderthefirmament]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

One thing they could add to Inaros is some synergy between Scarab Swarm and his #1. So when you kill someone with a finisher while they are under the effect of #1 x% of Scarab Swarm is replenished and they could make it scale with strength or duration aswell.

This plus some sort of overguard on his 2 or 3 (or both?) would go a long way towards making him relevant.  He wouldn't really need a full rework, though there is still a lot of clunk going on in his middle two abilities.  And his passive.

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

Concerning Frost Prime, I would love to see the energy numbers on him buffed and his passive replaced with a combo of the cold related decrees from Duviri.

Concerning Nyx, she is my go-to for for getting stuff done. Her 4 plus Aug works wonders with Archon Hunts.

Concerning Loki, he needs a complete overhaul rebuilt from the ground up. His prime looks ultra drippy.

Concerning Hydroid, he does need a few changes involving his passive and maybe a few abilities.

Concerning Chroma, change his passive to grant buffs to each element within affinity range. Move his screen to his 4 as an exalted elemental caster that becomes usable when he activates his 4, he sprouts wings and hovers around like Hildryn.

I'd say Rhino could use a tuneup. He could afford some better numbers at lvl 30 and a new passive that gives efficiency for each enemy within X amount of metres