PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

1 hour ago, Dragoon said:

I keep checking back hoping something will be done.

Me too. Waiting for that 4th bundle, everything split up and added available for Regal aya, everything available for plat.... Something....

 

[(PSN)HeartCoreGamer]

Il y a 2 heures, (XBOX)toughdragon17 a dit :

This debacle made me stop playing warframe I will not be playing warframe untill the new updates come out and will definitely not be spending money on the game untill things are settled between us and digital exteams

Same here. But the choices they made with those bundles AND the lack of proper response (meaning addressing the outrage) have definitely damaged my confidence in them. No way back.

[Lion]

6 hours ago, Voltage said:

I urge people who are happy with the current bundle to understand that nobody is asking for anything that worsens the transaction whatsoever

Unfortunately, all of fixes that have been proposed so far will objectively worsen the transaction in some way, there's no way around it. 

- Removing the exclusivity ruins it for people who bought it for exclusivity. 

-Adding a cheaper pack so soon screws over the people who already paid $90 and can't refund for the cheaper pack. Most retailers and a lot of credit cards for example have price protection if a product goes on sale within a certain window after buying, to prevent this kind of situation. This would not be available for something like warframe. I enjoy the pack and I'm perfectly happy with the price I paid, that is until a cheaper option becomes available less than a month later. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it went on sale during it's last week or something though. 

[Stafelund]

1 hour ago, Lion said:

Unfortunately, all of fixes that have been proposed so far will objectively worsen the transaction in some way, there's no way around it. 

- Removing the exclusivity ruins it for people who bought it for exclusivity. 

-Adding a cheaper pack so soon screws over the people who already paid $90 and can't refund for the cheaper pack. Most retailers and a lot of credit cards for example have price protection if a product goes on sale within a certain window after buying, to prevent this kind of situation. This would not be available for something like warframe. I enjoy the pack and I'm perfectly happy with the price I paid, that is until a cheaper option becomes available less than a month later. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it went on sale during it's last week or something though. 

It would be DE's fault on this and it's not helped that it's done with an abhorrent practice to begin with, with no good reason. Why does this even have an exclusivity in the first place? It all reeks of FOMO, it ain't Founders Pack. I'm gonna have to say though, that players who bought it without worrying about the fomo aspect doesn't have much of a say. And for those who bought it out of fear of missing out, they could have waited. But on that regard, DE receives more of the blame for engaging in that kind of practice. As everyone else have been saying since, it's predatory.

If they are wanting "exclusive items" for this event, they had the IRL merchandise like the artbook. Unlike some skins made with pixels and binary (and some added premium currencies on the side, which for some are unwanted), it makes sense for these to be limited. I can list out several reasons comparing the two, if you want.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Letter13
Removed quote to removed post

[Darkbring]

48 minutes ago, Lion said:

Unfortunately, all of fixes that have been proposed so far will objectively worsen the transaction in some way, there's no way around it. 

- Removing the exclusivity ruins it for people who bought it for exclusivity. 

-Adding a cheaper pack so soon screws over the people who already paid $90 and can't refund for the cheaper pack. Most retailers and a lot of credit cards for example have price protection if a product goes on sale within a certain window after buying, to prevent this kind of situation. This would not be available for something like warframe. I enjoy the pack and I'm perfectly happy with the price I paid, that is until a cheaper option becomes available less than a month later. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it went on sale during it's last week or something though. 

No-no, all of the suggestions make the transaction better for everyone, except ONLY for those who bought the pack for exclusivity, and those people deserve to lose it.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Lion said:

- Removing the exclusivity ruins it for people who bought it for exclusivity. 

Which has never mattered before. Prime Access cosmetics used to be exclusive, and people paid for that exclusivity. Until of course they stopped being exclusive and were brought back via Prime Unvaultings. Twitch Prime cosmetics are now permanent, despite at one point being exclusive for Twitch Prime members. Primed Chamber was a hyper-exclusive mod people paid significant money for, and yet it was added to the game as a simple Baro offering. Clans worked hard for the exclusivity of Ignis Wraith research, yet this too was """ruined""" for the good of the community as a whole. Lato and Braton Vandal were exclusive rewards to thank CB players which was also made available for everyone.

These packs being exclusive also ruins it for people who can't afford them right now, and for all the people who join our community in the future. "Celebrating" the game's first 10 years in a way that excludes all players who join us for the game's next 10 years is far more unfair than "but I won't be special anymore". Here: _^🎻. Removing the exclusivity and elitism surrounding the packs will also eliminate the similar type of harassment X-marked players will receive forevermore, the same as Founders have had to deal with for over a decade.

1 hour ago, Lion said:

-Adding a cheaper pack so soon screws over the people who already paid $90 and can't refund for the cheaper pack. Most retailers and a lot of credit cards for example have price protection if a product goes on sale within a certain window after buying, to prevent this kind of situation. This would not be available for something like warframe. I enjoy the pack and I'm perfectly happy with the price I paid, that is until a cheaper option becomes available less than a month later. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it went on sale during it's last week or something though. 

Nor has this ever mattered before. Supporter packs go on sale for significant discounts (>40%) before being retired, "screwing over" people who paid full price earlier. Prime Access content likewise comes back at a steep discount through Prime Resurgence which "screws over the people who already paid" for it.

And DE is also perfectly capable of issuing refunds; it's their choice to not issue them unless forced to by consumer protection laws. DE was perfectly capable of making changes and issuing refunds early for the tiny number of "but I won't be special anymore" players who might hypothetically become super mad that the filthy poors and non-time-travelers get to have these skins too, yet DE chose to wait longer than the refund windows platforms like Xbox, PS, and Steam grant their users.

Neither of these two points have ever mattered before, and there's no reason for them to matter now. Repeating them doesn't change that.

[Circle_of_Psi]

13 hours ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

They haven't responded AFTER the community collectively (yes including repeat posters like myself and some others, but LOTS of unique posters) told them this was still an AWFUL response from them. FOMO is awful. Forcing people to opt-in to buying plat and regal aya in order to buy 2 skins and 2 cosmetics people want is awful. Forcing people to buy it ALL when they might *only* want ONE Signa, or one Warframe skin, is awful. Their response was tone deaf, just "throw more plat at them to shut them up and ignore all of their more major concerns".

Aka this, which I'm reposting again.

^

There may be 4 or 5 of us who are repeatedly posting, but if you REMOVED the top 5 recurrent posters of posts in this thread, you'd still have like 50+ pages of comments.

High post count doesn't mean everyone's suggestions within are correct. But as DE has repeated as a game developer sentiment themselves before, "players are good at expressing what feels wrong, but not necessarily good at designing correct solutions". This is us expressing our outrage at how TERRIBLE DE's optics as a "free to play" game developer has turned with this decision, at least among us, but also across a number of online news articles, with headlines like the following.

PCGamesN
Warframe fans enraged as new Tennocon skins cost more than Starfield
Sportskeeda
"The worst, most predatory thing DE has done so far" - Warframe community expresses concerns over the expensive Heirloom Collection

It shouldn't have happened this time. And you know who might actually lose? DE, if enough of their previously loyal mini-whales who consistently bought their Prime Accessory Packs realize that DE doesn't actually give a S#&$ that they already have everything they could spend Regal Aya on, and don't need the Platinum either, and realize that DE won't actually reward them for their loyalty in any way, instead blatantly trying to milk them for more.

It's a scummy move of DE. And like WotC, Unity, Twitter/X, Adobe, and lots of other companies, they might find that they have burnt the goodwill, and their reputation, and have initiated a spiral down from their heights of success.

We'll see, with time, who truly lost. Or who truly wins, if DE actually bothers to do the right thing and stop trying to FORCE people into paying for so much platinum or regal aya that they don't want.

Some Celebration of 10 Years of Warframe, this was, when a thread can go on for so many page's worth of comments.

Lol you're right though, how out of touch are these white knights simping and sucking on DE's monetization team's boots, to ignore 86 pages of feedback, when there are over 200 individual player's likes for several of the first-page comments that stated the same thing we're saying again later, that we wanted a RegalAya/Platinum-free bundle that was not inflated in price by those premium currencies.

They KNOW DE's wrong, DE knows they're wrong, and they're both hoping for silence in the hopes that they can ignore the issue and pretend it doesn't exist, and pretend that DE's still the super fair, super nice listens-to-their-community (when the community is JUSTIFIED of course) developer. It's just to defend their own enjoyment of the game, despite the fact that support of this move will only deteriorate people's opinion and support (including financially) for the game.

 

(Also thanks for the pic, another template for me to use)

Edited September 16, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

48 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

"but I won't be special anymore" players who might hypothetically become super mad that the filthy poors and non-time-travelers get to have these skins too

It's funny how DE actively supports this toxic behaviour from players who are like this that you mentioned here ^

Poor shaming is quite the lowest of blows 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[Myscho]

Or they wait untill January and then release only skins pack, because we listen to community /s

[DogsConkers]

Meanwhile Rockstar celebrates their 10 year anniversary of GTA 5 by giving away clothing, weapon finishes and other bonuses to their community for free!

Edited September 16, 2023 by DogsConkers

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, Stafelund said:

Might be a cognitive bias. It's easy to gain negative views of a group depending on experiences, which can go all over the place. Not a thing you should go with but that's easy to happen more than you think, being human and all. Still, yeah this is going beside the point with the dishonesty/out of touch replies we're seeing here.

I don't think it really matters when Binket_ used an ad hominem fallacy built from prejudice towards a specific group of players which can also spread that bias even more than it already is.

Hell, someome could have said stuff like "The dude plays on PlayStation" or even "The dude bought the bundle" (looking at the glyph) and you can be sure it would have been negatively received nonetheless since such details are just mudflinging towards whatever group is mentioned which adds nothing to the discussion being held.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, Myscho said:

Or they wait untill January and then release only skins pack, because we listen to community /s

Hah, I won't be surprised if they did this

[Circle_of_Psi]

13 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Bro's gonna ask for receipts, ok lol. If you haven't paid attention and need a history lesson then we're happy to educate you.

DE introduced their version of nerfed Sentinel vacuum to "address" calls for univac and other ideas like splitting Vacuum into 3 mods.

Walked back within a day.

Oh boy, this was a mess and quite a few things here that were eh, let's say uncalled for.

But I am REALLY surprised that this hasn't had the same level of "Heat" as Vacuum did, given this is actual IRL Money then just a Nerf to a item

[Slayer-.]

We could have saved 88 pages of butthurt on both sides if DE had just put out a skins only pack without the bloat, the bloat can stay in the other pack just for players who would like some Regal Aya and top up their platinum, the skins came along for the journey.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-09-14 at 9:45 PM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

It's only Fomo if you make it Fomo. 

Besides, companies have used the "Don't miss out before its gone!" strategy for decades. 

You have to learn to control yourself.

Yeah great argument

Oh yeah Paul the military kill people so it shouldn't matter if i do it

Yeah paul those Criminals did it and the cops didn't care so it should be fine

Right gatcha paul i'll just nuke that country that insulted me, the americans were the good guys paul and they did it so why can't i

If i break your knees and forcefully take money from your bank and fix that "tiny" issue Perfectly, Its just a strategy to "earn" money

 

Just because some people actually enjoy having their knees bent the wrong way doesn't make it normal or right

Especially when others try to lure people into it

Edited September 16, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Stormhawkaro]

hace 4 horas, Slayer-. dijo:

We could have saved 88 pages of butthurt on both sides if DE had just put out a skins only pack without the bloat, the bloat can stay in the other pack just for players who would like some Regal Aya and top up their platinum, the skins came along for the journey.

Fun enough, DE had already tried similar things before and was always met with a similar "we want a no bloat, cosmetics only pack" response:

hace 17 horas, ----Legacy---- dijo:

- Ember Prime Access didn't have an accessories pack, it was added for Rhino's Prime Access due to player feedback

- Same thing happened to the first unvault pack where there were no cosmetics only bundles (which got them a big callout) and was changed due to feedback.

On one hand one would expext they (DE) would do their best to avoid going through the same again.

On the other hand, they may have thought "third time is the charm" expecting people to just go ahead and buy it blindly to avoid missing out on this "one time, never coming back offer"... with founders pack they've set a precedent of respecting that aspect of their marketing after all.

[Stafelund]

16 hours ago, Stormhawkaro said:

Fun enough, DE had already tried similar things before and was always met with a similar "we want a no bloat, cosmetics only pack" response:

On one hand one would expext they (DE) would do their best to avoid going through the same again.

On the other hand, they may have thought "third time is the charm" expecting people to just go ahead and buy it blindly to avoid missing out on this "one time, never coming back offer"... with founders pack they've set a precedent of respecting that aspect of their marketing after all.

If that's the case, seems like DE sadly missed the point of what made Founders special?

23 hours ago, DogsConkers said:

Meanwhile Rockstar celebrates their 10 year anniversary of GTA 5 by giving away clothing, weapon finishes and other bonuses to their community for free!

Very surprising. I've always thought of Rockstar as nothing ever since they did those remastered editions and removing the original versions of their old games, plus all the GTA V online shenanigans. I'm glad DE hasn't done anything yet similar to Rockstar and haven't heard of anything happening in Warframe like in GTA V, that frightening exploit from the start of this year was quite something.

23 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I don't think it really matters when Binket_ used an ad hominem fallacy built from prejudice towards a specific group of players which can also spread that bias even more than it already is.

Hell, someome could have said stuff like "The dude plays on PlayStation" or even "The dude bought the bundle" (looking at the glyph) and you can be sure it would have been negatively received nonetheless since such details are just mudflinging towards whatever group is mentioned which adds nothing to the discussion being held.

I agree with this. I'm actually saying that it's easy to fall down that way of thinking because of cognitive bias.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Stafelund
change some words

[(XBOX)Shodian]

8 hours ago, DogsConkers said:

Meanwhile Rockstar celebrates their 10 year anniversary of GTA 5 by giving away clothing, weapon finishes and other bonuses to their community for free!

Nice! DE also gave away skins and clothing items on their 10th anniversary as well. :)

Edited September 16, 2023 by (XBOX)Shodian

[Lion]

6 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Oh boy, this was a mess and quite a few things here that were eh, let's say uncalled for.

But I am REALLY surprised that this hasn't had the same level of "Heat" as Vacuum did, given this is actual IRL Money then just a Nerf to a item

I mean that just goes to show that people care about things that actually effect the game vs optional and unnecessary cosmetics. Exclusive cosmetics is something I don't draw the line at, but anything that effects gameplay (like an exclusive weapon, not just a skin) is something to be rightfully furious about.

[Lion]

I mean honestly to me this is like getting mad about limited editions or preorder bonuses or something equally irrelevant. People get so mad about FOMO like its the company that gave them FOMO and not an unresolved psychological compulsion that they themselves are responsible for. 10 years ago FOMO was just a cute twitter hashtag now people are treating ANYTHING that's limited time like a cardinal sin - like things aren't allowed to be limited anymore.  FOMO isn't something that DE gave you, and simply making something limited time isn't giving you FOMO - you already had it. 

I've never felt compelled or forced to buy anything, the only things I bought were things I wanted and was able to afford. There's been times where something I really wanted was too expensive and I said "oh well I can't get this" and moved on. Yes they technically could offer this forever (or at least until the game shuts down) but they chose not to, and that's that.

I said it before the most ideal scenario would've been launching with a cheaper pack, but that ship has sailed as we are now past launch, I think that at this point just biding their time is the best course of action they can take, as they are choosing to protect people who have already paid vs cater to people who probably still wouldn't pay even if the pack was like $50.

[Slayer-.]

2 hours ago, Stormhawkaro said:

Fun enough, DE had already tried similar things before and was always met with a similar "we want a no bloat, cosmetics only pack" response:

On one hand one would expext they (DE) would do their best to avoid going through the same again.

On the other hand, they may have thought "third time is the charm" expecting people to just go ahead and buy it blindly to avoid missing out on this "one time, never coming back offer"... with founders pack they've set a precedent of respecting that aspect of their marketing after all.

It just seems so simple and basic in my mind to do a skins only pack, how hard is it to keep what's there now and do skins only, it would appease everyone.

[Circle_of_Psi]

50 minutes ago, Lion said:

I mean that just goes to show that people care about things that actually effect the game vs optional and unnecessary cosmetics. Exclusive cosmetics is something I don't draw the line at, but anything that effects gameplay (like an exclusive weapon, not just a skin) is something to be rightfully furious about.

I guess that's a fair point but I'm more shocked that players didn't go to "that level" to express how much they dislike this, I mean, it's the future of Warframe here.

Just take a look at what happened to Dying Light 2 and who they sold out too.

And given how bad this pack is, it's not gonna be the end of it, even if they "Learn from their mistakes" it's just PR.

[Lion]

9 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Predatory marketing tactics in gaming has only been going UP in recent years.
Sure, it may have existed prior. It wasn't NEARLY as wide-spread and pathogenic as it is now.
Can't go two steps without a game trying to stick it's hands in the jar of icky sticky profits.

IMO limited time marketing is just marketing, and there is little to no room for ethics in it. The whole essence of marketing is to try and convince you to trade your money for useless products you don't need and are never going to need, and there's no tool more effective than limited time offers. I don't judge them for it, it is what it is. You either buy it and are done with it, or say no and move on. Marketing is designed to pressure you, so why are we mad about it doing exactly what it's designed for?

Edited September 16, 2023 by Lion

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Slayer-. said:

It just seems so simple and basic in my mind to do a skins only pack, how hard is it to keep what's there now and do skins only, it would appease everyone.

Which is literally what we had with the New War Supporter packs. Cash bundles with plat and a few small exclusives like a Glyph, and plat bundles on the market for just the skins. If DE just kept doing the obvious, successful thing they had already been doing none of us would be here talking about it.

[NightmareT12]

34 minutes ago, Lion said:

Marketing is designed to pressure you, so why are we mad about it doing exactly what it's designed for?

I don't agree with this, I think as the people that said marketing it's directed to we should and must voice our concerns, because otherwise it'd be free way for capitalism.

Anyways, I think it's been stated already that usually DE doesn't make changes to the existing rotation but rather waits until the next one, so I can just hope the next set of Heirloom skins ae not time limited and have a much more fair price with better bundles. I definitely want to see more skins of this design, but as I stated earlier, not like they pulled off the current ones.