Warframe Youtubers and their Overhyping "The Best x thing in the game" mentality.

[EdinaMonsoon]

12 hours ago, Hexerin said:

You're the first person I've seen make that claim. Meanwhile, I've seen dozens of people across multiple platforms discuss contrary.

well we literally know nothing about the story of the upcoming updates so until then, Warframe and Dark Sector remain unrelated lorewise

the just look like Dark Sector

[(NSW)Greybones]

12 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

If you're talking about finding the actual "best solutions" to the problems the game is throwing at you, then we're no longer talking about problems with YouTubers, but rather are talking about problems with the game itself.  And it's true: Warframe is not a perfectly balanced game, so there will be some solutions to problems that are tangibly more effective than others because they do 20% or 100% more damage, etc. (though to be fair, that's an issue with all but the most impeccably balanced games)

So what happens when you get to the top and still want to explore?  You simply do that: explore.  Because once you truly reach the top, you realize that there is absolutely no content in the game that makes the level of power we have necessary.  You could optimize to the Nth degree, but why would you do that instead of simply using what you enjoy?  So that you can kill enemies with 200% overkill instead of 100% overkill?  If you like big numbers, knock yourself out, but from a game flow perspective there's no payoff.

And again, this isn't just theory: this is my experience.  I have tools that trivialize the entire game, but generally I just use Mag with a tanky build, even though I know for a fact that it's a lot more chill to use my nearly invincible Baruuk.  And the reason I use Mag is simple: Pull has been my favorite ability in the game since I started the game with Mag a half dozen years ago.  Similarly, I use the Kunai Incarnon because it's nostalgic for me and cool, even though I've got a Lex Prime Incarnon that melts things way faster.  The game offers a plentiful suite of tools that are more than good enough, regardless of your tastes, and once you've capped there's no reason not to step off the peak and just have yourself a nice time with your toys.

Which is to say, there's nothing stopping players who want to explore from exploring.  If a player doesn't want to explore, they won't, and if they do, they will.

Alright. And is there support for experimentation? Because quite often what I see are players saying things like “When you’re at end-game, the game has the least amount of build variety and the least amount of gameplay” and claiming things like “If you make a ‘Decent build’, X mission shouldn’t be a problem”; like there’s not builds or playstyles that aren’t massive overkill and easy street, whether by choice or whether it’s just because the build doesn’t easily go beyond a certain level threshold but is still sufficient for what it’s made for.

I think that experimentation is actually frowned upon unless it takes place in the upper levels of the game, because there’s some kind of unspoken rule that if the game isn’t easy, you’re doing something wrong. Which can be a problem if there’s not even Youtube videos demonstrating that there’s more to this game than whatever sits in Steel Path, because even if someone goes to experiment, there’s some kind of secret line that you do not cross either by taking a lower-level build higher or rebuilding a higher-level build, despite the fact that it can open up a whole other side to Warframe and enable usage of everything we earn. (plus what are newbies going to do when they have no idea just how much damage and survival they need for the content that they’re doing when all they see are builds loaded up with mods they do not have and are built for content way beyond what they’re doing; the content requires only so much of either, which means that if they’re set then they can start branching out into alternative ways to build and play every time they do that content, just like someone who’s been around for 2k hours who has even more ways to do so)

Edited September 2, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Alright. And is there support for experimentation? Because quite often what I see are players saying things like “When you’re at end-game, the game has the least amount of build variety and the least amount of gameplay” and claiming things like “If you make a ‘Decent build’, X mission shouldn’t be a problem”; like there’s not builds or playstyles that aren’t massive overkill and easy street, whether by choice or whether it’s just because the build doesn’t easily go beyond a certain level threshold but is still sufficient for what it’s made for.

I think that experimentation is actually frowned upon unless it takes place in the upper levels of the game, because there’s some kind of unspoken rule that if the game isn’t easy, you’re doing something wrong. Which can be a problem if there’s not even Youtube videos demonstrating that there’s more to this game than whatever sits in Steel Path, because even if someone goes to experiment, there’s some kind of secret line that you do not cross either by taking a lower-level build higher or rebuilding a higher-level build, despite the fact that it can open up a whole other side to Warframe and enable usage of everything we earn. (plus what are newbies going to do when they have no idea just how much damage and survival they need for the content that they’re doing when all they see are builds loaded up with mods they do not have and are built for content way beyond what they’re doing; the content requires only so much of either, which means that if they’re set then they can start branching out into alternative ways to build and play every time they do that content, just like someone who’s been around for 2k hours who has even more ways to do so)

Experiementation is fine. Go out and try things for yourself. But the most important factor is Efficiency. Got to do Capture mission in less than 1 minute. Must one shot eidolon limbs. Need to be able to do 2 hour survivlal by standing still. That's where the issue comes in. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

While there will always be a meta, this is a sandbox game(imo) and you can get alot of enjoyment doing your own build crafting to see what does and does not work. That being said, there is so much information not given to us so it's understandable people turn to YouTube. Honestly Warframe YT is kinda a cesspool and should overall be avoided. There are a couple like Aznvasion(which has started becoming crap), Kengineer, and dystopia who actually provide new and useful content that is mostly reliable. There are many many channels to avoid.

Edited September 2, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[(PSN)Unstar]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Alright. And is there support for experimentation? Because quite often what I see are players saying things like “When you’re at end-game, the game has the least amount of build variety and the least amount of gameplay” and claiming things like “If you make a ‘Decent build’, X mission shouldn’t be a problem”; like there’s not builds or playstyles that aren’t massive overkill and easy street, whether by choice or whether it’s just because the build doesn’t easily go beyond a certain level threshold but is still sufficient for what it’s made for.

I think that experimentation is actually frowned upon unless it takes place in the upper levels of the game, because there’s some kind of unspoken rule that if the game isn’t easy, you’re doing something wrong. Which can be a problem if there’s not even Youtube videos demonstrating that there’s more to this game than whatever sits in Steel Path, because even if someone goes to experiment, there’s some kind of secret line that you do not cross either by taking a lower-level build higher or rebuilding a higher-level build, despite the fact that it can open up a whole other side to Warframe and enable usage of everything we earn. (plus what are newbies going to do when they have no idea just how much damage and survival they need for the content that they’re doing when all they see are builds loaded up with mods they do not have and are built for content way beyond what they’re doing; the content requires only so much of either, which means that if they’re set then they can start branching out into alternative ways to build and play every time they do that content, just like someone who’s been around for 2k hours who has even more ways to do so)

I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for when you say "is there support for experimentation".  In my experience, most Warframe players (including the YouTubers I watch) regularly express an ethos of "players should use what makes them happy, but if you're stuck here's something strong that could help".  Sure, every now and then I'll see a juvenile elitist in the forums with a toxic take like "anyone not using Glaive Prime for X is an idiot", but in my experience it's the exception to the rule.

And even more than the general community, the YouTubers I watch are all for experimentation.  Heck, have you looked at some of the builds that YouTubers make videos on?  Sure, sometimes it's a straight down the middle video on the Lex Prime Incarnon, but sometimes it's "here's a super-nuanced build I've been liking with (Warframe nobody uses)".  LeyzarGaming literally just put out a video showcasing 3 builds for weapons that use Corrosive + Cold, which there is absolutely no reason to build if you're just going to follow the meta.  That's a video from a person who's thinking and exploring, and encouraging others to think critically as well.

And as far as builds that are way beyond what new players have, I think you're just not watching the right YouTubers.  One of the most important things to me in a Warframe Creator is that they not only serve the end-game community, but the new community as well.  And both LeyzarGaming and Brozime do this.  Most of LeyzarGaming's weapon videos show builds for newer players as well as builds for end-game players.  Brozime also makes a lot of content that is specifically aimed at new players, such his yearly "Free-To-Playthrough" where he starts a new account and progresses through the game, recording the whole thing and adding helpful commentary about why he's doing what he's doing.  He's also got guides that teach players how the modding system works so they can make their own builds instead of just copying others, and most of his actual build videos discuss options for replacements if you don't have certain resources.

I'm not sure what the difference in our experience is.  Maybe we're looking in different places, or maybe we're interpreting the same community in different ways.  I'd recommend you branch out with your YouTubers, though, as there are plenty that are doing a lot of what it sounds like you want to see.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 1.9.2023 um 00:57 schrieb (PSN)Hopper_Orouk:

I've gotten sick of hearing Youtubers label every item, Warframe, weapon etc as the "Best in the entire game" and Overhype their statement with carefully orchestrated clips and cuts of them using said Warframe/Weapon along with big numbers.

Have we not established already that in this game, there isn't really anything that's the "best"?

there are worse items for sure, but to say for example "This Warframe" is the best in the entire game, is missing the point...

no matter how many tier lists you make, Warframe doesn't have categories...we don't have a Tank, Healer, DPS classes so we obviously don't need to classify Warframes based on metrics that don't exist.

we can have a Warframe that primarily deals damage, or a Warframe that primarily supports, or one in between, or one with a completely different motive...but they don't get shelved each in their own "specific" category.

 

same things with weapons. yes some weapons are too low level to be considered "the best" but if every weapon is scaled up to a fixed particular level the result would probably be the same with every weapon.

 

am I making any sense here? I don't know.

they earn a lot of cash with HYPE and get tons of money with ads! and who the hell watch this trash videos from these liars??

there are already constructive bloggers. but I can count them on my hands...

mostly it's some brainless videos with insane emotion with bait thumbs like insane face with open mouth and round eyes.... i think to myself every time: "is it filmed in the insane asylum?"

[Currilicious]

Anyone and their cousins can make a video on Youtube about the next best thing since sliced bread. No one needs to take them seriously. And if people do without fact checking and any critical thought, then those are just idiots being idiots. Best to leave them to their own devices since they're the intended audience and unlikely to see reason anyway.

[(NSW)Free_Aetharus]

On 2023-08-31 at 5:14 PM, Alguien said:

Lol, I remember before the New War, every warframe youtuber was tripping on each other what builds you gonna need for the New War, how do you need all this end game equipment, maxed arcane, specific amps, maxed schools, and other stuff that was completely irrelevant.

At the end of the day, they are only interested in views and clickbait brings them.

Those videos aged like rich wine.

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

Experiementation is fine. Go out and try things for yourself. But the most important factor is Efficiency. Got to do Capture mission in less than 1 minute. Must one shot eidolon limbs. Need to be able to do 2 hour survivlal by standing still. That's where the issue comes in. 

The most important thing is not efficiency. How are you going to experiment with alternative playstyles and builds if you’re concerned with efficiency first and foremost? The game just devolves into a few ways to build and play.

In fact, thinking about, I reckon that unspoken threshold that is Not Fine To Cross is heavily based on the notion of Efficiency First. We got everything on the one side, and then the rest of the game is on the other side of that line. And if someone’s experimenting, they should feel comfortable going across both (which incidentally requires being able to play better to take more things to more places) instead of sticking to one side even if what they’re looking for could be on the other side.

And if they’re going across both, then the chances of the grind being insufferable fades into the background because they’re not making the grind insufferable for themselves. It’s extremely quick to get to a point where we don’t need, and instead want. All it takes is being able to do the mission in the first place and we can think about branching out whether it’s efficient or not, and we got so many options for doing so and we always start from the modless baseline, and most of the game is between 15 - 140 with a bit of unbalancec SP that’s designed for minmaxers and will always have less build and playstyle variety. Experimentation is both “Efficiency first, fun second” as well as “Fun first, efficiency second”, and between those two lies the entirety of Warframe to the point that there’s no way the amount of loadout slots and config slots can hold all the ways to play

7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for when you say "is there support for experimentation".  In my experience, most Warframe players (including the YouTubers I watch) regularly express an ethos of "players should use what makes them happy, but if you're stuck here's something strong that could help".  Sure, every now and then I'll see a juvenile elitist in the forums with a toxic take like "anyone not using Glaive Prime for X is an idiot", but in my experience it's the exception to the rule.

And even more than the general community, the YouTubers I watch are all for experimentation.  Heck, have you looked at some of the builds that YouTubers make videos on?  Sure, sometimes it's a straight down the middle video on the Lex Prime Incarnon, but sometimes it's "here's a super-nuanced build I've been liking with (Warframe nobody uses)".  LeyzarGaming literally just put out a video showcasing 3 builds for weapons that use Corrosive + Cold, which there is absolutely no reason to build if you're just going to follow the meta.  That's a video from a person who's thinking and exploring, and encouraging others to think critically as well.

And as far as builds that are way beyond what new players have, I think you're just not watching the right YouTubers.  One of the most important things to me in a Warframe Creator is that they not only serve the end-game community, but the new community as well.  And both LeyzarGaming and Brozime do this.  Most of LeyzarGaming's weapon videos show builds for newer players as well as builds for end-game players.  Brozime also makes a lot of content that is specifically aimed at new players, such his yearly "Free-To-Playthrough" where he starts a new account and progresses through the game, recording the whole thing and adding helpful commentary about why he's doing what he's doing.  He's also got guides that teach players how the modding system works so they can make their own builds instead of just copying others, and most of his actual build videos discuss options for replacements if you don't have certain resources.

I'm not sure what the difference in our experience is.  Maybe we're looking in different places, or maybe we're interpreting the same community in different ways.  I'd recommend you branch out with your YouTubers, though, as there are plenty that are doing a lot of what it sounds like you want to see.

I’ll have a second look at Youtubers and maybe find the black swan

Edited September 3, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Drachnyn]

Am 1.9.2023 um 00:57 schrieb (PSN)Hopper_Orouk:

I've gotten sick of hearing Youtubers label every item, Warframe, weapon etc as the "Best in the entire game" and Overhype their statement with carefully orchestrated clips and cuts of them using said Warframe/Weapon along with big numbers.

Have we not established already that in this game, there isn't really anything that's the "best"?

there are worse items for sure, but to say for example "This Warframe" is the best in the entire game, is missing the point...

no matter how many tier lists you make, Warframe doesn't have categories...we don't have a Tank, Healer, DPS classes so we obviously don't need to classify Warframes based on metrics that don't exist.

we can have a Warframe that primarily deals damage, or a Warframe that primarily supports, or one in between, or one with a completely different motive...but they don't get shelved each in their own "specific" category.

 

same things with weapons. yes some weapons are too low level to be considered "the best" but if every weapon is scaled up to a fixed particular level the result would probably be the same with every weapon.

 

am I making any sense here? I don't know.

Have you considered not watching youtubers you dont like?

[MekaDovah]

I only look at one Youtuber and only rarely if I actually want his opinion. Otherwise, I do my own thing and build my own way and ignore them. There are other things to watch in youtube besides opinions I never asked for.

Edited September 3, 2023 by MekaDovah

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

Hype brings views, views (income) give them the ability to play Warframe all day.

Plus if they're good boys and girls who don't stir the pot they get free stuff.

It's more a hate the game not the player situation, so I just don't watch.  Though I find a large portion of 'Frametubers irritating.

[Skoomaseller]

i dont understand this community's hate boner for content creators who are mostly normal

that is them sharing their opinion, there is no need to be so worked up about it

[Mayonaiser]

you new on the internet or something? youtubers clickbait all the time, thats how they get views. if you dont like the way they do it then you can just click the three dot on the bottom right of the video thumbnail and click "dont reccomend this channel", its as simple as that.