Limbo needs to be reworked, or at least fixed.

[Megazawr]

Current issues I have with Limbo without even playing him:
 

• Operator can't deal damage to enemies in the rift. This can ruin unairu's last gasp, making you unable to revive with it.
• Operator can't pick up energy cells in the rift. This halves amount of cells you can carry to the next excavator in one run.
• You can't shoot at enemies outside of his bubble(when you're inside), unlike Frost's bubble, Gara's wall, Volt's shield. This is especially bad if there are annoying eximus outside of it, and/or if Limbo has very big range.

Best solution for this is to rework him completely, so he gets more than just CC and some weapon damage with augment.
2nd best solution(and the quickest) is to fix all these 3 issues, which will make the best CC warframe(right now he's the worst).

Also that's probably not all the detrimental Limbo's rift interactions, but the most common and annoying.
Iirc a few years ago operator could deal damage to enemies both inside and outside of the rift. Don't remember if you could pick up stuff in the rift.

[Cerikus]

Agreed. Some time ago I was posting about this. I am convinced that the whole "rift" is an outdated mechanic from when Warframe was completelly different game.

I do not think whole rework is needed though. His kit works, but is ruined by the rift mechanic itself.

Rift should be a "status effect" that does only ONE thing: Enemies affected by RIFT are susceptible to Limbo's other abilites.
That would mean that other players wouldn't hate Limbo, because they wouldn't be affected. That would mean Operators would work as well.

Passive:
It doesn't matter if Limbo is in or out of rift, he can still affect and be affected by everything.
He has 75% DR against enemies in the plane he is currently not in. Energy regen stays.

Banish:
Nothing changes, augment still works. With the change of Passive, other players are happy when they are in Rift.

Stasis:
Nothing changes, amazing CC.

Rift Surge:
Nothing changes, great rift spread, AMAZING augment.

Cataclysm:
Nothing changes, amazing area CC lockdown and damage. Augment is also good.

This changes Limbo from "NOOOO... Limbo in a squad, B rank" to "Hell yeah, we have Limbo, A rank"

He already has good abilities, but the rift mechanic is awful.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Cerikus

[chaotea]

35 minutes ago, Megazawr said:

Current issues I have with Limbo without even playing him:

I'd say thats the problem here. No one likes limbo until the start using him.

36 minutes ago, Megazawr said:

Operator can't deal damage to enemies in the rift. This can ruin unairu's last gasp, making you unable to revive with it.

This is a feature I prefer. Its more that the operator isnt effected by the rift, so enemies in rift cant touch operator. But you can use operator to quickly drop eximis overguard or nullifier bubbles.

37 minutes ago, Megazawr said:

You can't shoot at enemies outside of his bubble(when you're inside), unlike Frost's bubble, Gara's wall, Volt's shield. This is especially bad if there are annoying eximus outside of it, and/or if Limbo has very big range.

This is likely intentional. All those other examples can be destroyed, while limbos bubble is invulnerable and gives energy regen.

39 minutes ago, Megazawr said:

Best solution for this is to rework him completely, so he gets more than just CC and some weapon damage with augment.
2nd best solution(and the quickest) is to fix all these 3 issues, which will make the best CC warframe(right now he's the worst).

I suppose the issue is, as someone whose used him quite alot, hes not really a CC warframe in the traditional sense. Hes more a defence warframe, and a very effective one. Hes specialised, like alot of older frames, and thats fine. He doesnt need much else, and there is always Helminth.

Limbo is very strong, especially vs grineer or infested.

[Stormandreas]

1 hour ago, Megazawr said:

Current issues I have with Limbo without even playing him:

If you haven't played him, then you wont have experience in what he's good at I'm afraid.

Limbo doesn't need a full rework, but does need a tweak. Or rather, he needs to be reverted a little.

• The Operator previously could hit anything in the Rift or Realspace, but DE for some reason changed it and didn't document it afaik. This needs brought back.
• Nullifiers used to create a pocket of protected space inside Cataclysm. This was cool and thematic, but now just entirely break Cataclysm. This needs brought back.
• Overguard causes enemies to ignore Stasis entirely, but not Cataclysm or the Rift at all, they aren't even slowed down. This needs changed to at least slow the enemies down considerabley.

Limbo is an INCREDIBLY powerful Defensive and CC frame if used correctly. Cataclysm creates a space of near invulnerability, and adjusting his range for combatting Nullifiers or not is key to making him work well, especially in a team environment.

If a Limbos range is massive, usually, they shouldn't use Rift Surge (unless the express goal is to just lock down the map like in the case of Void Cascade), and enemies will get stuck on the edges of Cataclysm. Makes them EXTREMELY easy to find and kill.
If Limbos range is tiny, he's simply making a near perfectly protected small pocket for a defence objective, so nothing wrong there.

When played solo, Limbo can hit OBSCENE damage numbers as well with Rift Torrent and good strength. Otherwise, he's primarily an extremely powerful Defensive and CC frame.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

Agreed. Some time ago I was posting about this. I am convinced that the whole "rift" is an outdated mechanic from when Warframe was completelly different game.

I do not think whole rework is needed though. His kit works, but is ruined by the rift mechanic itself.

<snip>

no, it's not outdated, it's always been super disruptive and frustrating for other players in every iteration. He's never meshed nicely with other players unless your playstyle is power spam. Playing him solo though? very cool mechanic, 10/10 experience, you feel like a real goddamn space wizard. Encountering him in public when you aren't playing him? He is the absolute worst, and I would like to gift wrap and deliver him to Vay Hek to be punted into the sun. 

[Cerikus]

2 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

no, it's not outdated, it's always been super disruptive and frustrating for other players in every iteration. He's never meshed nicely with other players unless your playstyle is power spam. Playing him solo though? very cool mechanic, 10/10 experience, you feel like a real goddamn space wizard. Encountering him in public when you aren't playing him? He is the absolute worst, and I would like to gift wrap and deliver him to Vay Hek to be punted into the sun. 

Yes, he was always disruptive, but he could at least be played like a nuker and/or as a defense warframe. Before Overguard he was able to protect anything. Now he has nothing except for the edgy playstyle of "I do something different".

10/10 experience? lol, lmao even. In the current Warframe, where half the enemies literally ignore his 1, 2 and 4? Yeah, sure.
The only good you can do with him in the current state is to subsume surging blades with agument and be done with him.
The last thing he is really good at is the Index nightwave challange and even there it's better to take Khora.

He needs a fix. Not a rework, but Rift must be changed.

[Megazawr]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

This is a feature I prefer. Its more that the operator isnt effected by the rift, so enemies in rift cant touch operator.

Well taking no damage can be good, but dealing no damage can ruin your game. I was unable to revive myself twice because of that, and one of the cases was on archon mission
 

[Megazawr]

50 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

If you haven't played him, then you wont have experience in what he's good at I'm afraid.

I know that he can be incredibly strong, a friend of mine plays him a lot, but only solo or in curcuit(with little range), cuz he doesn't want to ruin the game for his teammates.

Quote

The Operator previously could hit anything in the Rift or Realspace, but DE for some reason changed it and didn't document it afaik. This needs brought back

Yeah, I mentioned that, but I took such a long break from warframe I wasn't sure if my memory was correct about it.

[Chewarette]

Even at the time, the rework sucked. Having random enemies between rifted by his 3 (I think) has always been a major annoyance, even more depending on Limbo's energy color.

I don't know if we'll have a Limbo Rework v3 (or is it 4 ? I'd count "Statis also stops friendly bullets" for a failed iteration, but an iteration still), but I'd agree it needs tweaks for group play.

The 3 points raised by @Stormandreas are good, and I'd even push even more to make Operators deal even more damage while in Cataclysm. Operators are already a great wildcard in most content as they deal great damage nowadays, pushing that further with Limbo to have great efficiency in SP content would be lit.

But what it definitely needs is a way for his Rift to not be as annoying as it is today.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, chaotea said:

2 hours ago, Megazawr said:

You can't shoot at enemies outside of his bubble(when you're inside), unlike Frost's bubble, Gara's wall, Volt's shield. This is especially bad if there are annoying eximus outside of it, and/or if Limbo has very big range.

This is likely intentional. All those other examples can be destroyed, while limbos bubble is invulnerable and gives energy regen.

Nullies and probably other enemies can destroy it. Eximus blatantly just don't care about catasis.

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Agreed. Some time ago I was posting about this. I am convinced that the whole "rift" is an outdated mechanic from when Warframe was completelly different game.

I do not think whole rework is needed though. His kit works, but is ruined by the rift mechanic itself.

Rift should be a "status effect" that does only ONE thing: Enemies affected by RIFT are susceptible to Limbo's other abilites.
That would mean that other players wouldn't hate Limbo, because they wouldn't be affected. That would mean Operators would work as well.

Passive:
It doesn't matter if Limbo is in or out of rift, he can still affect and be affected by everything.
He has 75% DR against enemies in the plane he is currently not in. Energy regen stays.

Banish:
Nothing changes, augment still works. With the change of Passive, other players are happy when they are in Rift.

Stasis:
Nothing changes, amazing CC.

Rift Surge:
Nothing changes, great rift spread, AMAZING augment.

Cataclysm:
Nothing changes, amazing area CC lockdown and damage. Augment is also good.

This changes Limbo from "NOOOO... Limbo in a squad, B rank" to "Hell yeah, we have Limbo, A rank"

He already has good abilities, but the rift mechanic is awful.

Affecting enemies outside the current plane (e.g. Rift) is nice (even with less damage (e.g. put cataclysm, you deal 100% damage to enemies in Cataclysm, 50% for enemies outside cataclysm). However enemies affecting Cataclysm or STatis should be removed. What's the point of big bubble that cannot protect a thing? Let enemies affect it, changing its size.

As for 75% - make it 100% (same for companion). It's nice to have limited immortality. With 75% it's like you are stronger but at some point you have to cheese it again.

[Harutomata]

I think Limbo is one of those frames which highlights that the addition of overguard to eximus units wasn't thought out well, because many frames' primary role is CC, and eximus rework took that away, and those frames' defenses weren't designed around CC immune enemies, because those weren't around when the CC frames released.
(Remember when Chaos Nyx was useful? It was probably my fav way to play as Nyx. Then Arbitration rework and Eximus rework happened.)
While I can see why it was added, complete negation of CC is very silly. It's an overkill.

A good change would be letting CC abilities still affect enemies with Overguard (and probably near an arbitration drone), but with shorter duration, ability strength possibly affecting how long duration exactly. Then that duration should vary for each ability, numbers favoring frames whose primary role is CC.
In case of Limbo, the eximus units should either move slower inside the bubble instead of being completely stopped, or deal less damage. But most importantly they should be able to take weapon damage regardless whether you stand inside or outside the bubble. It's one of the main reasons why Limbo is in a quite clunky state right now.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Harutomata

[(PSN)ApoX95]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb chaotea:

I'd say thats the problem here. No one likes limbo until the start using him.

This is a feature I prefer. Its more that the operator isnt effected by the rift, so enemies in rift cant touch operator. But you can use operator to quickly drop eximis overguard or nullifier bubbles.

This is likely intentional. All those other examples can be destroyed, while limbos bubble is invulnerable and gives energy regen.

I suppose the issue is, as someone whose used him quite alot, hes not really a CC warframe in the traditional sense. Hes more a defence warframe, and a very effective one. Hes specialised, like alot of older frames, and thats fine. He doesnt need much else, and there is always Helminth.

Limbo is very strong, especially vs grineer or infested.

As a Limbo Main, I completely agree with this.

I can understand that the Operator interactions can be troublesome for some, although it does have it's upsides. Since the Rift is some sort of Middle-Dimension between the Void and the Material Plane, I wouldn't mind if Void Damage get's the same treatment as Warframe abilities so they could hit cross-plane but otherwise I think his kit is completely fine. As chaotea says, Limbo is actually a very very strong frame. and completely changing his kit would kill this frame for me.

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, Megazawr said:

Well taking no damage can be good, but dealing no damage can ruin your game. I was unable to revive myself twice because of that, and one of the cases was on archon mission

Kind of miss quoting there, but heres the thing, you can still be ressed by teammates. If they arnt ressing you, thats a separate issue. It should be easy to do so, unless your not in the bubble.

2 hours ago, Megazawr said:

but only solo or in curcuit(with little range), cuz he doesn't want to ruin the game for his teammates.

I actually love having a limbo in my team. His bubble is so easy to work around its not an issue at all, and even better if your a nuker, cause rift doesnt affect powers.

Again, once you have used him, hes much easier to understand, and any dislike turns to love. I didnt like him before i used him, now hes in my top 10.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Nullies and probably other enemies can destroy it. Eximus blatantly just don't care about catasis.

Nullies break everything though :D But yea, same as any other CC power, you've got to catch Eximus (and nulifiers) before you can gain the benefit.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

What's the point of big bubble that cannot protect a thing?

Though it is one of the better protection skills.

35 minutes ago, (PSN)ApoX95 said:

Limbo is actually a very very strong frame. and completely changing his kit would kill this frame for me.

Though i think we could all dump his 1. Whats the point of rifting 1 guy :D

[(PSN)ApoX95]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb chaotea:

Though i think we could all dump his 1. Whats the point of rifting 1 guy :D

oh it has been changed though and his 1 now functions in a cone :D so depending on range, you can easily banish a whole hallway with his 1 :D

 

oh and edit, just because this is also part of his 1, you also force banish everyone back into material plane by holding his 1. that's why I also subsumed pillage over his 4 on my main build, because with decent range, you can banish enemies into rift basically indefinitely through a combination of your 3 and 1 without even leaving the rift

 

banish everyone in sight with your 1 (which can be done in one cast if you're looking at a hallway like with typical grineer tiles), cast your 3, force banish everyone out with holding 1 (which triggers the AoE of 3), use your 3 again to recast rift surge

and then occasionally switch between your 3 and 1 to rebanish close enemies that are not in the rift plane but close to ones affected by rift surge

+ all of his while you have your insane rift surge augment damage buff :D and with arcanes like blessing and guardian + adaptation and rolling guard you're even tanky enough for material plane and only use your rift-wizardry on heavy units which really need it (which usually happens several hours into steel path survival, people tend to forget that you can shield gate and health tank with literally every frame. I have a mixture of both on my build + 5 archon shards (3 ability duration, 1 max energy and 1 cast speed) and I literally don't even need to use his abilities in public SP missions, I just occasionally cast pillage to shield/armor strip and regen shields while my weapons deal with the enemies. and we even have incarnon furis now which makes tanking a lot easier because you have health regen on your secondary (And with lifestrike or healing return I believe is the other mod called on your melee)

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by (PSN)ApoX95
added information about the synergy of his kit

[quxier]

2 minutes ago, chaotea said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Nullies and probably other enemies can destroy it. Eximus blatantly just don't care about catasis.

Nullies break everything though :D But yea, same as any other CC power, you've got to catch Eximus (and nulifiers) before you can gain the benefit.

I would say that Limbo's is more affected than other abilities.

3 minutes ago, chaotea said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

What's the point of big bubble that cannot protect a thing?

Though it is one of the better protection skills.

It WAS. Not anymore. In one fight it hardly protected anything as enemies just went to defense target moving even with Stasis.

Before eximus change, I've used to play him. It was overpowered but most enemies cannot touch defense target.

 

[Numerounius]

To me the worst part about the rift for me isn't with the indirect greifing associated with power cells and terminal carriers or even the "fixed" Jackal lasers. The worst has to be the crystals in mirror defense. In order to pick up a crystal you need to not be in the rift. In order to reach a crystal you need to use parkour/roll. Rolling lets you in the rift. Being in the rift means you cannot pick up crystal. You are actively hindering yourself by picking Limbo in this gamemode regardless of how you build it.

 

So while I don't think Rift and Limbo is getting a full-on rework soon. I'd love to see a wide-spread pass on the abilities and objective interactions because there are some many added interactions over the years that really make some abilities look outdated because you, but not enemies, can't interact with them. It isn't just Limbo and his rift mechanics that gets negatively impacted by this. If nulifiers/Jackal can ignore/shut my abilities than the game should be able to let me interact with friendly objectives (crystals, terminals, pickups etc.) without needing to shut off my own abilities.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 4 heures, Stormandreas a dit :

If you haven't played him, then you wont have experience in what he's good at I'm afraid.

Limbo doesn't need a full rework, but does need a tweak. Or rather, he needs to be reverted a little.

• The Operator previously could hit anything in the Rift or Realspace, but DE for some reason changed it and didn't document it afaik. This needs brought back.
• Nullifiers used to create a pocket of protected space inside Cataclysm. This was cool and thematic, but now just entirely break Cataclysm. This needs brought back.
• Overguard causes enemies to ignore Stasis entirely, but not Cataclysm or the Rift at all, they aren't even slowed down. This needs changed to at least slow the enemies down considerabley.

Limbo is an INCREDIBLY powerful Defensive and CC frame if used correctly. Cataclysm creates a space of near invulnerability, and adjusting his range for combatting Nullifiers or not is key to making him work well, especially in a team environment.

If a Limbos range is massive, usually, they shouldn't use Rift Surge (unless the express goal is to just lock down the map like in the case of Void Cascade), and enemies will get stuck on the edges of Cataclysm. Makes them EXTREMELY easy to find and kill.
If Limbos range is tiny, he's simply making a near perfectly protected small pocket for a defence objective, so nothing wrong there.

When played solo, Limbo can hit OBSCENE damage numbers as well with Rift Torrent and good strength. Otherwise, he's primarily an extremely powerful Defensive and CC frame.

I agree with almost everything you said. Limbo is awesome (I play solo almost all the time).

There is just one point I don't agree (anymore). I used to ask for a fix for the impossibility of dealing damage with the Operator while inside the Rift, but other players changed my mind and showed me that this was changed to let us deal with Nullifiers from inside the Rift and also to let players deal with Arbitration drones inside Cataclym with the Operators (these drones are not in the rift, even they are inside Cataclysm). Nonetheless, after the Focus rework, this mechanic became a little problem for Last Gasp, even if it's still possible to prevent this problem by uncasting Cataclysm (it was possible even if you are downed) before triggering Last Gasp.

I used to ask to be able to make damage with the Operator to be able to remove the Eximus Overguard inside the Rift, but this would prevent the operator to reach any arbitration drone inside Cataclysm and also from destroying the Nullifier bubbles before they touch the Rift from inside Cataclysm.

If the way the Nullifier bubble interacts with Cataclysm changes, the Operator problem will be solved too, as there will be no more any need to be able to destroy the Nullifier bubble while inside Cataclysm. Your idea seems very well (the Nullifier and everybody inside its bubble will not be affected by Cataclysm, just the way it works for some other AoE abilities : Silence, Gloom, Strangledome...

I really love Limbo and I agree with you : he desn't need a rework, just some little changes.

 

[sunderthefirmament]

5 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

If you haven't played him, then you wont have experience in what he's good at I'm afraid.

 

But you’ll still be able to point out his flaws. He’s an unparalleled grief frame. Honestly, people who play with Limbo on their team are more qualified to talk about him than his misguided mains. Everything about his kit performs like it was tailor made just to grief the rest of the team. Take Cataclysm, for instance. With stasis, yeah, it provides significant CC. But the way it divides the map is massively problematic, and its ever shrinking boundaries mean that every attack made against an enemy at its boundaries is a gamble. And enemies will basically always be at the boundary if your Limbo is maintaining stasis. As Cataclysm shrinks, enemies are momentarily freed from it, then move forward to get locked down and rifted again. It’s a headache. 
 

Limbo needs a rework. He’s no longer worth taking because CC is largely meaningless and pseudo invulnerability can be acquired more easily and with less baggage through other means. Now that Revenant has Mesmer Shield, he does everything that Limbo does but better. Pseudo invulnerability?  Done. Just by pressing a button without any rift nonsense. CC?  Even better than Limbo, because Rev’s thralls will distract overguarded enemies. And if you’re missing Limbo’s energy regen, just take Zenurik. 
 

Abolish the rift as it currently exists. Replace it with a status effect that doesn’t grief the rest of the team. Throw in some teleports, debuffs, and even a scaling nuke of some sort. Limbo can keep his theme of interdimensional wizard without the clunk of the rift as we know it. 

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

I would say that Limbo's is more affected than other abilities.

Certainly as theres no shooting through.

 

2 hours ago, quxier said:

It WAS. Not anymore. In one fight it hardly protected anything as enemies just went to defense target moving even with Stasis.

You can cast it on most def targets (first ability) just requires maintenance.

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Before eximus change, I've used to play him. It was overpowered but most enemies cannot touch defense target.

Only reason ive fallen off for def is i find Xaku better, with full armour / shield strip.

[Megazawr]

59 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

every attack made against an enemy at its boundaries is a gamble.

Btw another big problem of Limbo is that if you are a client, hitting enemies that are at the border can be a huge problem. Often enemies that are outside of it are still considered like they are inside. Opposite is much more rare tho.

[quxier]

29 minutes ago, chaotea said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

It WAS. Not anymore. In one fight it hardly protected anything as enemies just went to defense target moving even with Stasis.

You can cast it on most def targets (first ability) just requires maintenance.

It's still probably affected like Catasis plus it's harder to use. As moving target (you cannot cast it on normal defense targets, afair) it runs a lot sometimes. If rifts runs out then everyone gonna shoot it (because it agro them).

37 minutes ago, chaotea said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

Before eximus change, I've used to play him. It was overpowered but most enemies cannot touch defense target.

Only reason ive fallen off for def is i find Xaku better, with full armour / shield strip.

It's not about what is better. It's about bare usefulness. It's not very useful past some levels. You need to put much more different stuff that it's stops being Limbo.

38 minutes ago, chaotea said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

I would say that Limbo's is more affected than other abilities.

Certainly as theres no shooting through.

 

I don't mean only that you cannot shoot through rift. It's also about how lots of enemies & attack can still affect you while you are in Catasis.

[PsiWarp]

As an occasional Limbo user, I would like some team-friendly changes indeed.

His Passive is a godsend and one I want preserved. An escape route into the Rift at anytime, reload, walk through crossfire, what have you, and pop out to attack. With Eximis abilities crossing the Rift, an AFK Limbo will eventually die, so no need to shove a timer onto the indefinite passive.

His Passive portal, though, can go away. It's an annoying obstacle to Limbo and his allies, but only if it and Banish remains unchanged.

For his abilities, there's so much room to expand on what he can do with the Rift Plane and less about how many ways can he kick people into/out of it. He's been playing Rift Gatekeeper since his release, and not really the Rift Mage/Magician with many tricks up his sleeve.

For Void's sake, make object interactions always accessible, I want to pick up that Ayatan Sculpture, activate Lift Support, hack the freaking Spy alarmed console before mission fails, etc, etc.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 8 heures, Stormandreas a dit :

If you haven't played him, then you wont have experience in what he's good at I'm afraid.

Limbo doesn't need a full rework, but does need a tweak. Or rather, he needs to be reverted a little.

• The Operator previously could hit anything in the Rift or Realspace, but DE for some reason changed it and didn't document it afaik. This needs brought back.
• Nullifiers used to create a pocket of protected space inside Cataclysm. This was cool and thematic, but now just entirely break Cataclysm. This needs brought back.
• Overguard causes enemies to ignore Stasis entirely, but not Cataclysm or the Rift at all, they aren't even slowed down. This needs changed to at least slow the enemies down considerabley.

Limbo is an INCREDIBLY powerful Defensive and CC frame if used correctly. Cataclysm creates a space of near invulnerability, and adjusting his range for combatting Nullifiers or not is key to making him work well, especially in a team environment.

If a Limbos range is massive, usually, they shouldn't use Rift Surge (unless the express goal is to just lock down the map like in the case of Void Cascade), and enemies will get stuck on the edges of Cataclysm. Makes them EXTREMELY easy to find and kill.
If Limbos range is tiny, he's simply making a near perfectly protected small pocket for a defence objective, so nothing wrong there.

When played solo, Limbo can hit OBSCENE damage numbers as well with Rift Torrent and good strength. Otherwise, he's primarily an extremely powerful Defensive and CC frame.

Agreed with about everything you had to say.

I play a decent chunk of Limbo and Cataclysm breaking as soon as a Nullifier turning on their bubble is a big turn off from ever using him in corpus endless missions where he would otherwise be a complete banger frame to use.

Stasis had been nerfed when Scarlet Spear was a thing to allow Sentients to resist it fully past a couple seconds, which was imo definitely not the move to go for (since, well, the gamemode's disappeared forever) and could've been, like what you said : a slow down instead of a complete freeze on enemies that would "resist" it.

Both of those changes together could actually make Limbo worth considering for a gamemode his abilities are worthless in : Disruption. Demolysts pulses currently break Cataclysm... meanwhile... haha funny Khora bondage memes.

[Stormandreas]

4 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I agree with almost everything you said. Limbo is awesome (I play solo almost all the time).

There is just one point I don't agree (anymore). I used to ask for a fix for the impossibility of dealing damage with the Operator while inside the Rift, but other players changed my mind and showed me that this was changed to let us deal with Nullifiers from inside the Rift and also to let players deal with Arbitration drones inside Cataclym with the Operators (these drones are not in the rift, even they are inside Cataclysm). Nonetheless, after the Focus rework, this mechanic became a little problem for Last Gasp, even if it's still possible to prevent this problem by uncasting Cataclysm (it was possible even if you are downed) before triggering Last Gasp.

I used to ask to be able to make damage with the Operator to be able to remove the Eximus Overguard inside the Rift, but this would prevent the operator to reach any arbitration drone inside Cataclysm and also from destroying the Nullifier bubbles before they touch the Rift from inside Cataclysm.

If the way the Nullifier bubble interacts with Cataclysm changes, the Operator problem will be solved too, as there will be no more any need to be able to destroy the Nullifier bubble while inside Cataclysm. Your idea seems very well (the Nullifier and everybody inside its bubble will not be affected by Cataclysm, just the way it works for some other AoE abilities : Silence, Gloom, Strangledome...

I really love Limbo and I agree with you : he desn't need a rework, just some little changes.

 

I can see peoples arguments over dealing with nullifiers from inside the rift, but the way it worked before, meant we could do that AND hurt enemies inside the rift with the Operator, regardless if the OP was in the rift or not. That's why it really annoys me that this was removed, because it was such a necessary function!!!

That, and Last Gasp doesn't work with Limbo pretty much at all because of the whole "OPs can't hit anything that is in the rift" deal.

[K1ll8h0t_2454]

On 2023-09-04 at 1:52 PM, Megazawr said:

Current issues I have with Limbo without even playing him:
 

• Operator can't deal damage to enemies in the rift. This can ruin unairu's last gasp, making you unable to revive with it.
• Operator can't pick up energy cells in the rift. This halves amount of cells you can carry to the next excavator in one run.
• You can't shoot at enemies outside of his bubble(when you're inside), unlike Frost's bubble, Gara's wall, Volt's shield. This is especially bad if there are annoying eximus outside of it, and/or if Limbo has very big range.

Best solution for this is to rework him completely, so he gets more than just CC and some weapon damage with augment.
2nd best solution(and the quickest) is to fix all these 3 issues, which will make the best CC warframe(right now he's the worst).

Also that's probably not all the detrimental Limbo's rift interactions, but the most common and annoying.
Iirc a few years ago operator could deal damage to enemies both inside and outside of the rift. Don't remember if you could pick up stuff in the rift.

1. Operator can't damage rifted enemies? Yes, this requires a change then. I didn't knew this.

2. You know this is the reason rolling guard is an absolute must with him for that 3 sec invulnerability. I can see it being a problem with cataclysm but then again as all of your public team mates will be shouting "SMALLER BUBBLE YOU @#R#@!!!" (from personal experience😅) in excavations, ideally around 50-60% range. With the exception for some niches namely interception, spy and lootframe limbo, a big bubble is almost never a good idea for general game play, solo or otherwise and this makes it a good choice to place your helminth ability in.

3. This has been a fundamental problem for limbo. Here is my solution:

Augment for limbo:

Uncertainty: Once banished, allies are held in rift permanently and interact normally with the world. Doesn't apply to Limbo/Limbo Prime.

Explanation:

- Permanently held because limbo need to spam 1 & 3 to get enemies inside rift. This will also remove allies from the rift and also its a quality of life feature as no need to check if someone is out of rift at any point.

- Interact normally mean can pick up loot normally, open double door, cypher etc and also enemies outside rift  and allies inside can damage each other.

 - Doesn't apply to limbo as he need to change planes for survivability basically.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by K1ll8h0t_2454