SP circuit things. (Long essay warning)

[Amolistic.]

Since SP circuit is a complete different breed, your frame either need to kill in a very very great speed like 150kpm, or just press a button to lockdown a place since defense and excavation exist, and assassination being difficult due to jackal stomping and your revenant in squad suddenly bleeding-out, or your abilities/buffs gone like nothing, and arcanes are impossible to maintain, and unairu (focus school) being absolutely mandatory for high level jackal fights, dont think armor strip is going to be enough, you need very good buffs, and hope the jackal isn't constantly spinning around like mad so that you can actually aim...

Because eximus spam is such a hard thing to deal with in defense, instead of the normal 3 spawn maximum, this completely breaks it, adding on the thrax enemies, and that guy who do the jump and spin attack your defense objective to oblivion, because the overguard is so impervious to dmg and DoTs, it is even hard for dps frames to burst it down reliably fast before everyone else who is not focused kills you instead. cc frames still have a better chance due to it is the only moving target, but not much better either, you need frames who can defend, notably lmbo or frost because enemy scaling...(gara cannot because after a certain point, glass break too fast)

Excavation gets so annoying even after 1st rotation because of enemies simply fewshotting it when you are picking up batts, stalling the mission so hard it feels painful....

Assassination...ugh...not only slash does not work, if you don't have armor strip, its "GG we fail mission 100%" after a certain level, even with armor strip, if you dont have dmg buffs, it is still impossible to kill the legs as your gun ammo just is not enough and due to a certain mechanics of ammo pickups, it is just pure hell...and the legs just constantly moving, and shooting bullets that always proc your shieldgate like no tmr...and haha once jackal stomps, get hit, say byebye to your buffs and skills, and without ways to stop him in tracks, the fight is very difficult and can went wrong quickly...

 

Then, after all this, why the topic?

Mod for high range, nourish + roar, keep your stomp, and let iron skin scale with game itself.

 

Defense: Eximus spam? Press 4 in a tempo, eximus, thrax, overguarded enemies suddenly becomes no-issue, can solo hold the entire mission by himself with little to no issue because Rhino Stomp being Rhino Stomp kekw

Excavation: Same, just press 4, pick up batts, and you should have no issue, with squad this is even better, just ask your rhino to hold the exca tower, the rest pick up batts.

Assassination: Rhino Stomp. Just Rhino Stomp, throw your unairu ball, buffs on, shoot leg part, if jackal do laser wall attack, take dmg intentionally, and iron skin suddenly scale too hard to the point that you make revenant question his existence because you can just stall the skin hp so goddamn hard with rolling guard + reinforcing stomp, you can go at least a 1.5 round, sometimes 2 or 3 even 4 rounds without pressing that button again, which is like....20mins max, 8mins minimum, that is like...at max, 50 400str mesmer skin that can be stalled and regenerated, if you think rev is broken already, a well charged iron skin is a completely different realm of sheer undead...

Even in survival, he is a exceptional gunframe. Gunframes being gunframes.

- - - -

 

I played many choices, some choices like octavia (obviously my choice without rhino present), garuda (invul period spam go brrrr) or nidus (his 4 can distract enemies well, larva can help kill, and him undead af), even gara (defense frame be like:), none of them is even remotely close to the efficiency of Rhino, even octavia struggles hard because the eximus spam becomes so aggressive and them being so hard to kill, the heat, shock and wave slam thing just hit you easily which is instant death, no questions asked without rolling guard, and the occasional toxin eximus sneaking up to you....

Octavia is a great choice, like S to S+ class choice (one of the best), but even I, by playing her many times in SP circuit, found her pale in comparison to Rhino in cases where you strictly need to perform...

 

It has reached to a point where if i want to make a tierlist for SP circuit, i will just put Rhino in "Rhino" tier, far above the S tier classes. He is just that broken in circuit.

 

I just cannot stress hard enough just how insanely and unfairly broken Rhino, especially Rhino Stomp is, you have roar + nourish which means dmg = ezpz, even my not-so-greatly modded scourge prime can bring me till level 6k with the addition of decrees, no armor strip, no slash involved too...And iron skin, just scales insanely hard with enemy level, one jackal beam wall, you make revenant look like a squishy frame.

 

[nslay]

As someone who routinely plays SP Assassination and SP Excavation as non-Rhino, I completely disagree. I play both missions easily as: Excalibur Umbra, Citrine, Revenant Prime, Saryn Prime, Mesa Prime, Lavos, Nova Prime, Mag Prime, Trinity Prime, Nekros Prime (extra easy with him!), Baruuk Prime... shoot, I feel like I'm forgetting a couple frames (I don't have all of them built!). These aren't even nodes you can fail... if you're so far into SP Circuit that everything one-shots Excavators, just keep spawning excavators and you eventually get the requisite 300 Cryotic (and maybe you really ought to extract at this point!).

20 minutes ago, Amolistic. said:

dont think armor strip is going to be enough

It really is. Just use Unairu man... and it makes Last Gasp easier to use in SP Circuit. Why wouldn't you use Unairu? Being "forced" to use Unairu is another discussion and it's not a unique problem. We used to be mostly using Zenurik before the focus school rework!

My only complaint with SP Assassination is how annoying it that while picking a Decree an annoying animation with a Duviri Tamm being crushed plays... every time! Please, please, stop playing this animation (especially if the player is in the middle of picking decrees!).

You know what I think is actually hard? Defense! And you can fail this mission and all SP Circuit progress is completely gone! To a lesser extent, Survival is worrisome because it's another mission that can strip all your SP Circuit progress if you fail. All other missions cannot be failed... including SP Excavation and SP Assassination.

[Amolistic.]

57 minutes ago, nslay said:

As someone who routinely plays SP Assassination and SP Excavation as non-Rhino, I completely disagree. I play both missions easily as: Excalibur Umbra, Citrine, Revenant Prime, Saryn Prime, Mesa Prime, Lavos, Nova Prime, Mag Prime, Trinity Prime, Nekros Prime (extra easy with him!), Baruuk Prime... shoot, I feel like I'm forgetting a couple frames (I don't have all of them built!). These aren't even nodes you can fail... if you're so far into SP Circuit that everything one-shots Excavators, just keep spawning excavators and you eventually get the requisite 300 Cryotic (and maybe you really ought to extract at this point!).

It really is. Just use Unairu man... and it makes Last Gasp easier to use in SP Circuit. Why wouldn't you use Unairu? Being "forced" to use Unairu is another discussion and it's not a unique problem. We used to be mostly using Zenurik before the focus school rework!

My only complaint with SP Assassination is how annoying it that while picking a Decree an annoying animation with a Duviri Tamm being crushed plays... every time! Please, please, stop playing this animation (especially if the player is in the middle of picking decrees!).

You know what I think is actually hard? Defense! And you can fail this mission and all SP Circuit progress is completely gone! To a lesser extent, Survival is worrisome because it's another mission that can strip all your SP Circuit progress if you fail. All other missions cannot be failed... including SP Excavation and SP Assassination.

"non-rhino"...ok bro.

but if you wanna disagree with me, at least point out what makes my decision of putting rhino in "rhino" tier a "not good" choice first...don't give me a list of frames and don't explain anything about why you disagree, man....

Read the first few paragraphs again. I already stated the issue. Eximus spam in many case, if you are not someone like gauss or rev who had that immunity, or rhino pressing 2 and 4, it is hell, try playing that mission solo with other frames, even if you are undead, if you cannot hold the mission, even if you are revenant, your screen is still no other than mission failed, the final parts of eximus spam is so aggressive, it becomes overwhelmingly difficult.

 

"Just use unairu man....(some words here)...Why would not you use unairu?"

MY BROTHER IN CHRIST...

self res? Yes, important, we make mistakes. But it is just u repeating my points...and I stated "armor strip", which is not limited to unairu, bro.

 

You still did not address the problem: exca being extremely annoying.

imagine this, if every time, your exca last 20s, that is like 15 excas, excas spawn (iirc) every 1.5mins, that is like 22.5mins minimum of sheer suffering and pain, the most frustrating part is that you go pick a batt, and boom, exca tower died. Yeah, i just continue spawning the excas, no big deal, right? It only cost your sanity btw, no much issue imo, right?

Excas cannot fail, but it feels like a living, worst punishment known to man for your own crime and brings only torture and pain to you if you just can't hold exca towers.

"You should have no issue with rhino in excavation" vs "just keep spawning until 300 cryotics" on other frames is a massive difference in time saved, and your sanity together too.

 

Do you know why assassination can fail? Try going to higher levels. Would be a damn shame if your weapons just so unfortunately, running out of ammo, no great gun buffs, with viral slash is completely useless here and most importantly, no energy due to no much enemies around. Even revenant is utterly useless without energy, let alone other frames, pressing stomp not only makes jackal no longer mess with you, he just stand there, you throw ball, shoot, your gunbuffs are needed to be good if you really want to survive, getting to level cap or even just high high levels on circuit is very easy at times because it scales very very fast, burning through your revives is surely fun if this happens.

 

As i continue reading your rebuttals...man, do you even read my essay thoroughly and not just scanning at this point.

I am in a state where I think you are either just Sarcasm, or being dead serious...

 

I dont know much about the decree animation thing you are describing, but i do know i have no issue with it.

 

Defense is the only mission you can really fail hard, i agree, that is why Rhino Stomp being Rhino Stomp. You should have no issue with defense at all if you play rhino correctly. I EVEN STATED YOU CAN SOLO HOLD THE ENTIRE MISSION BECAUSE OF RHINO STOMP KEKW

PLEASE. READ MY ESSAY THOROUGHLY. PLEASE, if you want to disagree, at least understand my point, my man...

[Voltage]

I honestly find that The Circuit only goes smoothly with 1 good defensive Warframe for Excavation and Defense. Outside of that though, none of the stages have fail states or issues with progression. Excavation doesn't either, but a defensive Warframe definitely saves time.

[nslay]

39 minutes ago, Amolistic. said:

"non-rhino"...ok bro.

Yes! "Bro", you have some kind of issue with the way you're playing other frames if you think these missions are Hek without Rhino. Tell me, do you think these missions are Hek with Mesa Prime? If you think so, there's something wrong with what you're doing. Mesa Prime is one of the easiest (if not the easiest!) frames to use for SP Circuit! And she can do SP Assassination just fine to boot.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2023-09-17 at 12:39 PM, Amolistic. said:

LEASE. READ MY ESSAY THOROUGHLY. PLEASE, if you want to disagree, at least understand my point, my man...

Not sure what you expected with a clickbait title like that, even if a much more reasonable essay followed it.

Much better title now.

[fo3nixz]

routinely using banshee in pub sp circuit no probs, enough decrees u dont need armor strip with ok melee & enough sonar (this is till cap 9999)

[nslay]

OK, here's a second pass of the original post.

2 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

dont think armor strip is going to be enough, you need very good buffs, and hope the jackal isn't constantly spinning around like mad so that you can actually aim...

You can go underneath the Jackal and blindly swing a melee weapon around and hit all of his legs. That's what I do sometimes when I'm annoyed with its movement.  You can also use something like Gloom to slow him down. Or if you pick a Decree that adds +Cold damage, Cold procs slow him down plenty too!

2 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

Because eximus spam is such a hard thing to deal with in defense, instead of the normal 3 spawn maximum, this completely breaks it, adding on the thrax enemies, and that guy who do the jump and spin attack your defense objective to oblivion, because the overguard is so impervious to dmg and DoTs, it is even hard for dps frames to burst it down reliably fast before everyone else who is not focused kills you instead. cc frames still have a better chance due to it is the only moving target, but not much better either, you need frames who can defend, notably lmbo or frost because enemy scaling...(gara cannot because after a certain point, glass break too fast)

Yeah, this is mostly true. The Eximus (particularly Blitz) and Thrax make this very challenging. CC effects definitely help. I also use Magus Lockdown and Out Of Sight Parazon mod (it's really easy to get Parazon kills on Eximus in SP Circuit).

Revenant "Pro-Tip", strip the Overguard off Life Eximus and Enthrall it to heal the Defense objective instantly.

Revenant "Pro-Tio", strip the Overguard off Guardian Eximus and Enthrall is to reduce damage to the Defense objective.

It can be hard to not kill Eximus by accident later on when Decrees have built up :(

Similar can be done for Excavators, and you also can use Ancient Healers and Shield Osprey Thralls too!

2 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

Excavation gets so annoying even after 1st rotation because of enemies simply fewshotting it when you are picking up batts, stalling the mission so hard it feels painful....

IMO, you should extract when enemies can one-shot things like Excavators. It also has implication on Defense objectives. But at least you can't fail it!

2 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

Assassination...ugh...not only slash does not work, if you don't have armor strip, its "GG we fail mission 100%" after a certain level, even with armor strip, if you dont have dmg buffs, it is still impossible to kill the legs as your gun ammo just is not enough and due to a certain mechanics of ammo pickups, it is just pure hell...and the legs just constantly moving, and shooting bullets that always proc your shieldgate like no tmr...and haha once jackal stomps, get hit, say byebye to your buffs and skills, and without ways to stop him in tracks, the fight is very difficult and can went wrong quickly...

A bit of parkour and dodging goes a long way. A lot of its moves can be telegraphed! Try to jump over the waves... I know it can very suddenly stomp the ground, but you can usually jump over the waves. What annoys me if that it still nullifies abilities in Warframes parked outside of the Jackal bubble while in Operator.

1 hour ago, Amolistic. said:

Do you know why assassination can fail? Try going to higher levels. Would be a damn shame if your weapons just so unfortunately, running out of ammo, no great gun buffs, with viral slash is completely useless here and most importantly, no energy due to no much enemies around. Even revenant is utterly useless without energy, let alone other frames, pressing stomp not only makes jackal no longer mess with you, he just stand there, you throw ball, shoot, your gunbuffs are needed to be good if you really want to survive, getting to level cap or even just high high levels on circuit is very easy at times because it scales very very fast, burning through your revives is surely fun if this happens.

Use Melee when out of ammo. Melee can be a lot easier to hit the legs if you go underneath the Jackal and swing blindly.  As a Revenant main, build for efficiency and I personally use Energy Siphon since he is not a energy-hungry frame. You will be able to recast Mesmer Skin with Energy Siphon and efficiency even when Energy is scarce.

2 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

Assassination: Rhino Stomp. Just Rhino Stomp, throw your unairu ball, buffs on, shoot leg part, if jackal do laser wall attack, take dmg intentionally, and iron skin suddenly scale too hard to the point that you make revenant question his existence because you can just stall the skin hp so goddamn hard with rolling guard + reinforcing stomp, you can go at least a 1.5 round, sometimes 2 or 3 even 4 rounds without pressing that button again, which is like....20mins max, 8mins minimum, that is like...at max, 50 400str mesmer skin that can be stalled and regenerated, if you think rev is broken already, a well charged iron skin is a completely different realm of sheer undead...

Revenant "Pro-Tip": Revenant doesn't need too much strength... certainly not 400%! IIRC, I think 250% strength is needed for 100% Reave health/shield stripping... and you don't really need 250% since Reave can be used to pass through an enemy twice.

2 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

It has reached to a point where if i want to make a tierlist for SP circuit, i will just put Rhino in "Rhino" tier, far above the S tier classes. He is just that broken in circuit.

I guess I'll have to give Rhino another try. The Overguard changes messed up my understanding of him.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Rhino is pretty great, but he's far from mandatory in circuit: I suppose the major factor is how well-modded your other frames are, but I don't usually get Rhino and if I do, I'll probably use him if nobody else is running DPS or if I'm the only Rhino (no point having 2 since Roar doesn't stack.). otherwise Garuda, Saryn, Mesa and Baruuk if they pop up are usually better picks for DPS without relying on weapons, and if we already have DPS on the squad, I'll run Oberon, Protea or Wisp if they're available. 

point is, I've used basically every frame in SPC at one point or another and at no point did I think any particular one would be "mandatory".

 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

Rhinos iron skin starts getting destroyed in seconds at level 1000+ at least for me. I really don't think he's a great pick for long sp circuit missions.

[MutoManiac]

I guess I don’t know how to use Rhino who dies constantly so I never pick him. Let me clarify, I do great with him and he seems unstoppable until something kills me out of the blue. I haven’t figured out what does it, but is annoying enough that it’s an easy skip for me.

I do just find in SPC up to levels 1000+ with Loki, Ash, Stalker, Khora, Protea, Nova, Zephyr, Titania, Revenant and of course Wukong. This is in a squad of course since solo takes too long. I think any frame is viable if you know how to play them well.

For the Jackal, I have no idea why people don’t go into void mode when he shoots his lasers. If you do, you can stay put and it becomes a quick easy round.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

5 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

"non-rhino"...ok bro.

but if you wanna disagree with me, at least point out what makes my decision of putting rhino in "rhino" tier a "not good" choice first...don't give me a list of frames and don't explain anything about why you disagree, man....

Read the first few paragraphs again. I already stated the issue. Eximus spam in many case, if you are not someone like gauss or rev who had that immunity, or rhino pressing 2 and 4, it is hell, try playing that mission solo with other frames, even if you are undead, if you cannot hold the mission, even if you are revenant, your screen is still no other than mission failed, the final parts of eximus spam is so aggressive, it becomes overwhelmingly difficult.

 

"Just use unairu man....(some words here)...Why would not you use unairu?"

MY BROTHER IN CHRIST...

self res? Yes, important, we make mistakes. But it is just u repeating my points...and I stated "armor strip", which is not limited to unairu, bro.

 

You still did not address the problem: exca being extremely annoying.

imagine this, if every time, your exca last 20s, that is like 15 excas, excas spawn (iirc) every 1.5mins, that is like 22.5mins minimum of sheer suffering and pain, the most frustrating part is that you go pick a batt, and boom, exca tower died. Yeah, i just continue spawning the excas, no big deal, right? It only cost your sanity btw, no much issue imo, right?

Excas cannot fail, but it feels like a living, worst punishment known to man for your own crime and brings only torture and pain to you if you just can't hold exca towers.

"You should have no issue with rhino in excavation" vs "just keep spawning until 300 cryotics" on other frames is a massive difference in time saved, and your sanity together too.

 

Do you know why assassination can fail? Try going to higher levels. Would be a damn shame if your weapons just so unfortunately, running out of ammo, no great gun buffs, with viral slash is completely useless here and most importantly, no energy due to no much enemies around. Even revenant is utterly useless without energy, let alone other frames, pressing stomp not only makes jackal no longer mess with you, he just stand there, you throw ball, shoot, your gunbuffs are needed to be good if you really want to survive, getting to level cap or even just high high levels on circuit is very easy at times because it scales very very fast, burning through your revives is surely fun if this happens.

 

As i continue reading your rebuttals...man, do you even read my essay thoroughly and not just scanning at this point.

I am in a state where I think you are either just Sarcasm, or being dead serious...

 

I dont know much about the decree animation thing you are describing, but i do know i have no issue with it.

 

Defense is the only mission you can really fail hard, i agree, that is why Rhino Stomp being Rhino Stomp. You should have no issue with defense at all if you play rhino correctly. I EVEN STATED YOU CAN SOLO HOLD THE ENTIRE MISSION BECAUSE OF RHINO STOMP KEKW

PLEASE. READ MY ESSAY THOROUGHLY. PLEASE, if you want to disagree, at least understand my point, my man...

No one has to explain anything to you because we each have our defined frames. Frost and Loki are my top two, with Loki being one of the most underrated gems in SP, IMO. Irradiating Disarm removes aggro from defense and excav targets while Fire Blast squishifies enemies, removing armor and stopping bullets. Once you get the proc spreading decrees, Loki becomes the lord of the Undercroft, easily pushing an entire team into high levels.

Frost Prime, with Icy Avalanche, high armor and Grendal's subsume, can protect and take a team just as high as Loki can. Stopping enemies, slowing Eximus units, boosting crit, protecting allies and targets and applying over guard all makes for a very powerful support/defensive/offensive frame. 

Yareli is another secret weapon in the Circuit. Merulina is not the best here for traversing but she is EXCELLENT as an extra shield gate and damage mitigation buffer, while her bubbles and whirlpool lock down areas, buffs crit and provides breathing room for allies. She is also one of the best Gloom subsume users due to her super high energy pool and its use while riding Merulina. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Iron Skin just generate Overguard. Iron Skin is one of the worse ability to generate Overguard. You can't spam Iron Skin to generate more Overguard like other warframe. Icy Avalanche for example. Shield Gate exist for most frames. If you're dying in SP, you're not ready for SP. Go farm for more gear before attempting Steel Path.

[Amolistic.]

11 hours ago, nslay said:

Yes! "Bro", you have some kind of issue with the way you're playing other frames if you think these missions are Hek without Rhino. Tell me, do you think these missions are Hek with Mesa Prime? If you think so, there's something wrong with what you're doing. Mesa Prime is one of the easiest (if not the easiest!) frames to use for SP Circuit! And she can do SP Assassination just fine to boot.

...this is really taking out of context, but my bad, the title is really poor written, my intention is really just wanna show my broken strategy and that is it, i have 0 ill intents, that is literally why i spend 2 hrs typing it, it is just that i screwed over my topic which had my "intention" shifted.

11 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Not sure what you expected with a clickbait title like that, even if a much more reasonable essay followed it.

yeah, the title is quite bad after much consideration imo and it simply does not fit the essay well, i will change it swiftly, maybe just a simple title like SP circuit thing, since it is hard for me to think a good topic, im not very good at that so...i am truly sorry for confusion.

[Amolistic.]

11 hours ago, fo3nixz said:

routinely using banshee in pub sp circuit no probs, enough decrees u dont need armor strip with ok melee & enough sonar (this is till cap 9999)

Casual banshee funny moment

[Amolistic.]

6 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

No one has to explain anything to you because we each have our defined frames. Frost and Loki are my top two, with Loki being one of the most underrated gems in SP, IMO. Irradiating Disarm removes aggro from defense and excav targets while Fire Blast squishifies enemies, removing armor and stopping bullets. Once you get the proc spreading decrees, Loki becomes the lord of the Undercroft, easily pushing an entire team into high levels.

Frost Prime, with Icy Avalanche, high armor and Grendal's subsume, can protect and take a team just as high as Loki can. Stopping enemies, slowing Eximus units, boosting crit, protecting allies and targets and applying over guard all makes for a very powerful support/defensive/offensive frame. 

Yareli is another secret weapon in the Circuit. Merulina is not the best here for traversing but she is EXCELLENT as an extra shield gate and damage mitigation buffer, while her bubbles and whirlpool lock down areas, buffs crit and provides breathing room for allies. She is also one of the best Gloom subsume users due to her super high energy pool and its use while riding Merulina. 

"No one has....defined frames"

i undertsand, everyone has its own rhino, i just want to show my broken strategy, my topic does not reflect that well and it is my bad.

(I should really work on my ability to come up a good, relevant topic name)

 

Frost is really a good choice, nourish is kinda the same purpose, him and rhino had the lowest energy bar in game yet being caster-type frames, although rhino is not that heavy, only like mid level casting because 4 ability frame, but 2 dur type abilities, 2 cast-type ability, but the result is same, personal fav is go efficiency, since you are a caster...even 850 energy max is not going to save you if you cannot regen the mana back, that is why nourish rhino/frost is a thing, it fixes thier innate issue of not having high energy max yet wasting energy like the end is tomorrow.

Yareli wise, there is also the 4s invul period, that is wild if you know how to abuse it, because it it the same mechanics of wisp 2 + iron skin charge phase, but 1s longer, can spam if you had the energy, and just unboard again and go onto the board, plus you can get the augment active very fast by just killing one enemy on board, and it last decently long, yareli is always great after the rework, just that many still did not realize it, she gives one of the most crazy buffs to secondary tho, and haha spammable 5 nezha halo go brrrr

[Amolistic.]

11 hours ago, nslay said:

OK, here's a second pass of the original post.

You can go underneath the Jackal and blindly swing a melee weapon around and hit all of his legs. That's what I do sometimes when I'm annoyed with its movement.  You can also use something like Gloom to slow him down. Or if you pick a Decree that adds +Cold damage, Cold procs slow him down plenty too!

Yeah, this is mostly true. The Eximus (particularly Blitz) and Thrax make this very challenging. CC effects definitely help. I also use Magus Lockdown and Out Of Sight Parazon mod (it's really easy to get Parazon kills on Eximus in SP Circuit).

Revenant "Pro-Tip", strip the Overguard off Life Eximus and Enthrall it to heal the Defense objective instantly.

Revenant "Pro-Tio", strip the Overguard off Guardian Eximus and Enthrall is to reduce damage to the Defense objective.

It can be hard to not kill Eximus by accident later on when Decrees have built up :(

Similar can be done for Excavators, and you also can use Ancient Healers and Shield Osprey Thralls too!

IMO, you should extract when enemies can one-shot things like Excavators. It also has implication on Defense objectives. But at least you can't fail it!

A bit of parkour and dodging goes a long way. A lot of its moves can be telegraphed! Try to jump over the waves... I know it can very suddenly stomp the ground, but you can usually jump over the waves. What annoys me if that it still nullifies abilities in Warframes parked outside of the Jackal bubble while in Operator.

Use Melee when out of ammo. Melee can be a lot easier to hit the legs if you go underneath the Jackal and swing blindly.  As a Revenant main, build for efficiency and I personally use Energy Siphon since he is not a energy-hungry frame. You will be able to recast Mesmer Skin with Energy Siphon and efficiency even when Energy is scarce.

Revenant "Pro-Tip": Revenant doesn't need too much strength... certainly not 400%! IIRC, I think 250% strength is needed for 100% Reave health/shield stripping... and you don't really need 250% since Reave can be used to pass through an enemy twice.

I guess I'll have to give Rhino another try. The Overguard changes messed up my understanding of him.

1st: yes you can blindly swing the weapons, but melees vs jackal always have one big problem. The way of a melee, meta wise, simply goes for full DoT, the direct hit just isn't going to be notable, without proper circuit decrees it is a no-no, but with unairu, it is doable, just that you might need to spend a lot of time doing so, i tried when my octavia only has my tipedo prime and it does work, just very slow, but at least you dont fail, but...that is with my best melee, as my tipedo prime has a very good riven of cc cd attack speed, which barely makes me red crit and deal 20x crit dmg, if no, i fear it might take more time, but yeah still doable, and you need multi hit combos that can hit well (just your generic top tier stances), slide attacks arent enough, but yeah decrees slow and gloom moment, haha press rhino stomp ezpz

 

2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th: about the revenant reave thing, i know this tech, that is the way you generally deal with them, since i do it before with reave rhino, just that you need 407str on rhino to completely oneshot eximus units with overguard on, a pretty hefty amount of str if you come to think of it, workable, but might as well bring primer for viral, this is just for meme, but if you want to recover the old days of reave oneshot after eximus update, this is the only way i can think of.

but should be workable if you just delete their overguard first, but overguard being overguard, it is very impervious to DoTs (slash with no viral? good luck) and dmg...if you don't really have great weps to haha go brr + decrees (you know, roguelike moment), might have some hard time, especially blitz, he is literally the run-ender if he does the wave slam thing once or twice on your def obj (revenant is my side main when i am bored of rhino, his 1 3 4 funni at times, but that is the old days now...)

 

6th, 7th: yeah you can do, maybe extract if you think it is oneshotting is the best way, just my point is that rhino can still hold on the exca if you mod correctly, just like limbo or frost, prob gara if you are pro enough with gara gameplay.

 

8th: I undertsand the point, I actively dodge the stomp, i am just sarcasm'ing those rhino and rev mains who thinks they are the world-ender, no one can stop me, standing there face-taking jackal, thinking they wont die kekw and straight up proc'ing that 200s passive kekw

 

9th: wow, energy siphon on rev? Rare sight, but i think he is like loki, since you have one ability that needs to be up no matter what, so with enough efficiency, and with like 250 str, 15s undead at worst, with a 175 efficiency, should you regen back the energy with little effort.

10th: The 400str thing is for comparison, i mostly build rev for str efficiency duration. 250 is enough for reave setup imo, you know, i used to be a rev main, memphisto skin go brrr

11th: rhino is always the same, just that every changes that is not really targeting him so happens to benefit him the most, fixing his remaining few issue. DE did not nerf this guy for years is simply unbelievable.

[Amolistic.]

12 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Rhino is pretty great, but he's far from mandatory in circuit: I suppose the major factor is how well-modded your other frames are, but I don't usually get Rhino and if I do, I'll probably use him if nobody else is running DPS or if I'm the only Rhino (no point having 2 since Roar doesn't stack.). otherwise Garuda, Saryn, Mesa and Baruuk if they pop up are usually better picks for DPS without relying on weapons, and if we already have DPS on the squad, I'll run Oberon, Protea or Wisp if they're available. 

point is, I've used basically every frame in SPC at one point or another and at no point did I think any particular one would be "mandatory".

 

Mostly you'd pick frames that can deal dmg yourself because weapons cant really be relied on, but performance wise, it is that, I am not really forcing anyone to go that route, I will still have my fun with octavia when a hard hitting enemies suddenly hitting that ball and everyone around it dies kekw

but if you really want to dps yourself...you have thermal sunder rhino.

This thing, this monstrosity, scale like, if not, one of the most insane nukes, because roar and thermal itself already has that exponential triple dip scaling, adding on some decrees like torment twofold, you just got yourself a (triple exponential dip*triple exponential dip), the scaling went so far to the point you start to snatch kills from octavia, but i definitely do no recommend such route, it is just...uninteresting, broken but in the most boring way possible, just spam 1, press 3 every 30s, press 4 for missions needed for it, this kind of gameplay is not really engaging, and makes the run so much more boring if you wish to go longer into the run.

not every frame is mandatory, there are many great choices, personally would like to pick garuda/nidus for fun because haha ability spam go brrr, just that this strategy is really broken, but exceptionally boring, which is pretty much the rhino way, and i don't really recommend it even after me saying how great it is, sometimes being too efficient kills the fun factor.

[Amolistic.]

7 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

Iron Skin just generate Overguard. Iron Skin is one of the worse ability to generate Overguard. You can't spam Iron Skin to generate more Overguard like other warframe. Icy Avalanche for example. Shield Gate exist for most frames. If you're dying in SP, you're not ready for SP. Go farm for more gear before attempting Steel Path.

Yeah, the casual forum way of "You cant survive SP kekw, do better"

Iron skin just generate overguard? Cannot spam iron skin to generate? Bro really thinks he is playing kullervo, frost and styanax?????

Wow your knowledge of rhino is really that shallow, do you know that iron skin has a 3s charge mechanics? This is the thing that makes my rhino simply becomes undead for 20min possible. Rhino is the only overguard user that actually scale to level cap because it scales with enemy level, the rest just fell off, result in abusing the 0.5s gate.

Shield gate benefits rhino more for one reason, he generates shield easily, can maintain shield easily with iron skin. spamming shield gate for 1.3s for other frames is surely fun for your fingers, now with that overguard gate for rhino, shield gate becomes your secondary undead, and back you up occasionally.

I don't need to flex that i been to SP level cap before. Why should I? Is that really a groundbreaking achievement? Nah. Pretty much any warframe veterans does that with ease.

[Amolistic.]

12 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Rhinos iron skin starts getting destroyed in seconds at level 1000+ at least for me. I really don't think he's a great pick for long sp circuit missions.

there is a technique called iron skin charge rolling guard and stomp shenanigans, it scale like infinite throughout the mission. If well done, should you have zero issue to survive after 1000, i even been to level cap before like another tuesday in SP, that is why this essay exist, but learning it takes time, it involves around you counting the time correctly, timing abilities well, and pretty much need you to be very conscious with your actions.

There is always a misconception of rhino's way of undead being revenant's way of undead. Rhino's way of undead is completely different vs revenant, how undead rhino is strictly relies on how good you are with iron skin charge manipulation, your skin scales with enemy level (enemy dmg), good charge + Rhino stomp reinforcing stomp (optional), rolling guard stalls, you can survive better vs a revenant, but you need to learn it, time it well, execute the rotation well and earn it yourself, it is not free and instantly accessible.

Rhino needs proactive gameplay, where the enemy is because rolling guard + reinforcing stomp stalling and who does the most dmg and benefit your skin, intentionally take dmg to destroy iron skin intentionally and abuse that charge phase for profit.

To tank better vs even a revenant in game, you need to sink your time, effort and skill to get it, understand who does a lot of dmg, stall the iron skin well with reinforcing stomp and rolling guard, not just press 1 button.

But at the end, pick your personal "rhino" tier.

[Amolistic.]

10 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

I guess I don’t know how to use Rhino who dies constantly so I never pick him. Let me clarify, I do great with him and he seems unstoppable until something kills me out of the blue. I haven’t figured out what does it, but is annoying enough that it’s an easy skip for me.

I do just find in SPC up to levels 1000+ with Loki, Ash, Stalker, Khora, Protea, Nova, Zephyr, Titania, Revenant and of course Wukong. This is in a squad of course since solo takes too long. I think any frame is viable if you know how to play them well.

For the Jackal, I have no idea why people don’t go into void mode when he shoots his lasers. If you do, you can stay put and it becomes a quick easy round.

yeah, can understand, everyone has a different experience.

But my take here are for solo only, my net is not top tier so squad is kinda risky for me.

And yeah, i agree, pretty much any frame is viable if you know how to play.

Jackal wise, rhino is the exact opposite, you want to intentionally take dmg so that your skin start to become very high in number you are pretty much undead for at least few minutes, with stalling, that is even more crazy, 4% recover per enemy is no joke, and 3s for the hp to not drop is no slouch either.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

5 hours ago, Amolistic. said:

Yeah, the casual forum way of "You cant survive SP kekw, do better"

Iron skin just generate overguard? Cannot spam iron skin to generate? Bro really thinks he is playing kullervo, frost and styanax?????

Wow your knowledge of rhino is really that shallow, do you know that iron skin has a 3s charge mechanics? This is the thing that makes my rhino simply becomes undead for 20min possible. Rhino is the only overguard user that actually scale to level cap because it scales with enemy level, the rest just fell off, result in abusing the 0.5s gate.

Shield gate benefits rhino more for one reason, he generates shield easily, can maintain shield easily with iron skin. spamming shield gate for 1.3s for other frames is surely fun for your fingers, now with that overguard gate for rhino, shield gate becomes your secondary undead, and back you up occasionally.

I don't need to flex that i been to SP level cap before. Why should I? Is that really a groundbreaking achievement? Nah. Pretty much any warframe veterans does that with ease.

So let me get this straight. You are in SP Circuit for 3 hours complaining about not being able to survive without Iron Skin?

[Vhqrty]

когда игру доделают

 

 

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

12 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

So let me get this straight. You are in SP Circuit for 3 hours complaining about not being able to survive without Iron Skin?

I think this goes back to that endurance players/speed players issue: trying to base the game's needs off of extremely long or short playtimes. I think it should now be a requirement for these guys to post their typical runtimes first, then form the rest of their post. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

13 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think this goes back to that endurance players/speed players issue: trying to base the game's needs off of extremely long or short playtimes. I think it should now be a requirement for these guys to post their typical runtimes first, then form the rest of their post. 

Based off of the opening post, it seems TC is having trouble at the early stages of SP Circuit. Like 5 rounds in. Anyone that does SP Circuit enough knows the game mode spikes at around 10 to 15 rounds. Once a player gets to 20 rounds, it becomes brainless activity.