Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Hydroid Rework

[(NSW)Yeyeg]

2 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

You are asking for a slow, clunky, and deeply inactive ability to be preserved.  It's ugly, ineffective, and bad.  It basically serves one purpose in modern Warframe: invincibility while waiting at extraction so you can stare at your phone or alt tab as the rest of your inept party slowly trundles towards the green marker.

 

There are ways to make turning into liquid cool and exciting, but let's not pretend Hydroid's puddle ever achieved that.

Or you know... you could use it as invincibility in any other part of the game...

[CapinPotato9711]

2 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

You are asking for a slow, clunky, and deeply inactive ability to be preserved.  It's ugly, ineffective, and bad.  It basically serves one purpose in modern Warframe: invincibility while waiting at extraction so you can stare at your phone or alt tab as the rest of your inept party slowly trundles towards the green marker.

 

There are ways to make turning into liquid cool and exciting, but let's not pretend Hydroid's puddle ever achieved that.

mate, not to be rude, but please read what basicly me and the rest of the comunity has said, then reply with a valid counter argument that isent simply "its bad" without any other context. 

 

[(PSN)The_Darkone_001]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:38 PM, CosoMalvadoNG said:

It looks good, I hope it works well.

The thing is that not everyone sees the tips friends, someone has no idea about a warframe and would think that you are hiding the enemies and would not even try to kill them while they are in the puddle. I liked the puddle but the new skill is team friendly and that's it.

Having a team friendly skill is great but I don’t think that’s a valid reason for this charge. As a Hydroid main I’ve had plenty of occasions where undertow helped my team tremendously by controlling a problem enemy and allowing my team to act with relative safety. Removing the complexity of this character is a good way to take away the depth from Hydroid. Undertow is one of his most iconic abilities. It isn’t that hard to learn through trial and error or be taught how hydroid works.

[sunderthefirmament]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Yeyeg said:

Or you know... you could use it as invincibility in any other part of the game...

Which locks you out of doing anything except slowly creeping (or awkwardly surging forward) and slowly damaging a few enemies at a time.  While loot blocks your vision.  I can just cast the occasional ability to replenish my shields (augur, brief respite) to achieve functional invincibility while also not locking me out of playing the game.

 

5 minutes ago, CapinPotato9711 said:

mate, not to be rude, but please read what basicly me and the rest of the comunity has said, then reply with a valid counter argument that isent simply "its bad" without any other context. 

I did:

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

slow

 

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

clunky

 

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

deeply inactive

 

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

ugly

 

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

ineffective

 

I can elaborate.  It's slow in terms of mobility and time-to-kill.  It's clunky in terms of entering and exiting the puddle.  It's also clunky in terms of loot blocking your view, and the view being awkwardly low.  It's deeply inactive because you don't really do much once you activate it.  You can pull people in and creep/surge around, but it's not anywhere near as active as playing the game traditionally.  It's ugly in terms of visuals but often, again, in terms of the loot blocking your view and just clustering above you.  And finally it's ineffective with its time-to-kill and target/range limitations.

 

I don't think it's accurate to claim that the "rest of the comunity"[sic] loves Hydroid's puddle and wants it to be preserved.  His usage stats should hint that there's something deeply, deeply wrong with his kit.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, (PSN)The_Darkone_001 dijo:

Having a team friendly skill is great but I don’t think that’s a valid reason for this charge. As a Hydroid main I’ve had plenty of occasions where undertow helped my team tremendously by controlling a problem enemy and allowing my team to act with relative safety. Removing the complexity of this character is a good way to take away the depth from Hydroid. Undertow is one of his most iconic abilities. It isn’t that hard to learn through trial and error or be taught how hydroid works.

No one can be in another person's mind. Not all of us have the same level of learning or understanding and the new skill is not bad, we just have to learn how to use it.

We won't have the puddle anymore? Building a hydroid tank would be the next step. I don't know if you've noticed that DE has been trying lately to make warframes more intuitive in their latest reworks and well, I think this is one of those. DE is eliminating the slow and cumbersome hydroid playstyle that no longer suits the game and is definitely the best step forward in today's warframe playstyle. Also, we don't know how useful or strong it will be since we haven't tested it. 

I repeat, the puddle is my favorite ability in his current ability kit, but with the changes I can see many more possibilities, some that I don´t see today. Personally, I already see the builds I'm going to try/test and I'm quite excited about testing new builds. So for me it's a big yes.

hace 1 hora, sunderthefirmament dijo:

It's slow in terms of mobility and time-to-kill.  It's clunky in terms of entering and exiting the puddle.  It's also clunky in terms of loot blocking your view, and the view being awkwardly low.  It's deeply inactive because you don't really do much once you activate it.  You can pull people in and creep/surge around, but it's not anywhere near as active as playing the game traditionally.  It's ugly in terms of visuals but often, again, in terms of the loot blocking your view and just clustering above you.  And finally it's ineffective with its time-to-kill and target/range limitations.

I like the puddle but, you are right in everything you say. The puddle is a skill that is not suitable for today's gameplay. 

The real reason people complain is because they lose that almost infinite survival (which you couldn't do almost anything with, besides being static and alive) plunder is an ability that is kind to teammates, that's why they replaced the puddle and that's it. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[CapinPotato9711]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Which locks you out of doing anything except slowly creeping (or awkwardly surging forward) and slowly damaging a few enemies at a time.  While loot blocks your vision.  I can just cast the occasional ability to replenish my shields (augur, brief respite) to achieve functional invincibility while also not locking me out of playing the game.

 

I did:

 

 

 

 

 

I can elaborate.  It's slow in terms of mobility and time-to-kill.  It's clunky in terms of entering and exiting the puddle.  It's also clunky in terms of loot blocking your view, and the view being awkwardly low.  It's deeply inactive because you don't really do much once you activate it.  You can pull people in and creep/surge around, but it's not anywhere near as active as playing the game traditionally.  It's ugly in terms of visuals but often, again, in terms of the loot blocking your view and just clustering above you.  And finally it's ineffective with its time-to-kill and target/range limitations.

 

I don't think it's accurate to claim that the "rest of the comunity"[sic] loves Hydroid's puddle and wants it to be preserved.  His usage stats should hint that there's something deeply, deeply wrong with his kit.

thank you for alaborating, here is my counter argument:

 

well over 33% of my  usage is hydroid prime, so i know what im saying when i mention undertows usages.  what you have metnioned are the methophorical tip of the ice berge, and quite frankly all the problems there is with undertow, other then it still trigures laser grids, which would be fairly Op, and push into ivaras neich (please dont start a debate on ivara)

bare in mind im a melee player, so most of what ive said applies mostly to hydroid melee. hydroid is by all means not a gun platform, there are other frames for that, dont complane about hydroid not suiting gun ho players.

as i have said, the instant invuln it provides, even while casting means you can effectivly negate strong attacks, like lich grabs ,manias lift , blitze eximus, disruptors , exetra which usually hits even if you dodge role. it can also be used to cast abilitys safley, such as gloom, which if your needing to cast it means you need to heal.  it also lets you power up your tenticles, and summons them closer together, rather then them spawning on a random enemy nearby (for context, hydroids tenticals spawn on any nearby enemy they can, or around your puddle). this allows you to control or block a point with less spread. there is also an augment which rapidly heals alies in the puddle, 30% a second. this is rapid, especially for an afk healer frame. it also allows you to breath in hords, but as i already mentioned that in my previous post, im not going to say it again. im just adding things here so my last post isent an overly edeted mess.  

your point in which it says it has a slow kill timer is fair, exept its not made to kill anything. its percentage based damage, all it does is prevent obsurd amounts of enemys being traped by an afk puddle, regardless of level. its primery function isent to kill, its to survive. undertows usage isent in staying still, its in going in and out of it, sort of like a better roaling guard, since it can be spammed, enemys stop targeting you, and it lasts indefinetly. if your actually going for this, it also reduces the need to equipt roaling guard, saveing a mod slot. 

as a bonus, you can dodge roll, jump, or even sprint out of it at any time, and enemys will react slower since they must first sight you then atack, as you were just invisable. the whole gimick of it is "breathing room", which in a game like warframe, isent common, and is what makes hydroid such a survivable frame, in its own unique way........

 

like loki

 

( im going to regret saying that arnt I)

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by CapinPotato9711
forgot something, again

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

11 minutes ago, CapinPotato9711 said:

well over 33% of my  usage is hydroid prime

I’m around 85% usage on Hydroid. I will say I’m happy to see there is a lot of love here for Hydroid in regards to his future.

I can’t say anything useful in regards to what I think of the eventual changes to him until I actually play him. Hydroid as he is currently is what really keeps me playing Warframe regularly as a MR 6 Pre-Quills player.

If DE can’t fix the logout problem we have here in the forums, we can’t really expect them to respond to whatever else we can say about Hydroid at this point in time. The time to say things was well in the past already.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, CapinPotato9711 said:

thank you for alaborating, here is my counter argument:

 

well over 33% of my  usage is hydroid prime, so i know what im saying when i mention undertows usages.  what you have metnioned are the methophorical tip of the ice berge, and quite frankly all the problems there is with undertow, other then it still trigures laser grids, which would be fairly Op, and push into ivaras neich (please dont start a debate on ivara)

bare in mind im a melee player, so most of what ive said applies mostly to hydroid melee. hydroid is by all means not a gun platform, there are other frames for that, dont complane about hydroid not suiting gun ho players.

as i have said, the instant invuln it provides, even while casting means you can effectivly negate strong attacks, like lich grabs ,manias lift , blitze eximus, disruptors , exetra which usually hits even if you dodge role. it can also be used to cast abilitys safley, such as gloom, which if your needing to cast it means you need to heal.  it also lets you power up your tenticles, and summons them closer together, rather then them spawning on a random enemy nearby (for context, hydroids tenticals spawn on any nearby enemy they can, or around your puddle). this allows you to control or block a point with less spread. there is also an augment which rapidly heals alies in the puddle, 30% a second. this is rapid, especially for an afk healer frame. it also allows you to breath in hords, but as i already mentioned that in my previous post, im not going to say it again. im just adding things here so my last post isent an overly edeted mess.  

your point in which it says it has a slow kill timer is fair, exept its not made to kill anything. its percentage based damage, all it does is prevent obsurd amounts of enemys being traped by an afk puddle, regardless of level. its primery function isent to kill, its to survive. undertows usage isent in staying still, its in going in and out of it, sort of like a better roaling guard, since it can be spammed, enemys stop targeting you, and it lasts indefinetly. if your actually going for this, it also reduces the need to equipt roaling guard, saveing a mod slot. 

as a bonus, you can dodge roll, jump, or even sprint out of it at any time, and enemys will react slower since they must first sight you then atack, as you were just invisable. the whole gimick of it is "breathing room", which in a game like warframe, isent common, and is what makes hydroid such a survivable frame, in its own unique way........

 

like loki

 

( im going to regret saying that arnt I)

 

 

 

If it actually functioned like you suggest, as an ability we could quickly activate to evade attacks and then just as quickly emerge again, ready to fight, I would likely have a very different opinion of it.  It's too slow for that.  While you can do some interesting chain-casting with Tidal Surge or interrupt your melee attacks mid-swing, it's just too clunky to be used as a quick in-and-out defensive ability.  The operator fills that role better than the puddle ever will.

 

Again, if it let us do something like those ghastly Twins in the second Matrix movie, only with water and not whatever ethereal nonsense they're using, I would probably like it quite a bit.  As it stands, it's too slow.

 

 

[CapinPotato9711]

12 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If it actually functioned like you suggest, as an ability we could quickly activate to evade attacks and then just as quickly emerge again, ready to fight, I would likely have a very different opinion of it.  It's too slow for that.  While you can do some interesting chain-casting with Tidal Surge or interrupt your melee attacks mid-swing, it's just too clunky to be used as a quick in-and-out defensive ability.  The operator fills that role better than the puddle ever will.

 

Again, if it let us do something like those ghastly Twins in the second Matrix movie, only with water and not whatever ethereal nonsense they're using, I would probably like it quite a bit.  As it stands, it's too slow.

 

 

new idea: im going to just keep edeting my points here rather then makeing a new post for each reply.

 

when i mentiond using undertow to dodge, i did also clarify its specific usage on eleates, not on basic mellee units, since there is no point dodging those attacks. being able to invuln through acolites attacks in melee is great, especially since misery alone does 80k bloody damage a hit(calculated through being one shot with 95% mitigation), which even if you dodge role, will probebly still hit. 

as for the operator, ide have to argue that it dosent fill the role. while it does take some agro of the warframe, your warframe can still be hit by attacks, and when it is, you ocasionally get draged out of operator. whether this is a bug or not is irelavant, since its been here a while and has had no special mention, so we can assume this is just a part of the game. this is most freequent while figthing shadows, at least in my experience. on the other hand,  undertow provides instant invulrability, even whilst casting, and prevents any status effects from impacting hydroid further whilst active.

to clarify: undertow exells at avoiding powerfull attacks, and while its animation isent instant, it does only last 2 seconds befor you can attack again, if you exet by canceling the ability.

you can emidiatly attack if you dodgeroll out the puddle, simeraly with jumping, though this is less manuvarable.   

Edited October 1, 2023 by CapinPotato9711

[(PSN)ThanatosSloth]

I hope the concern over the resetting of the armor buff from the demo is being reconsidered....when I rewatched the video, I saw the armor bonus reset depending on the amount of enemies in view at the time of cast, and it went from 600 to 170...I would rather have a hard cap on the armor with recast adding to the bonus, than to have a no armor ceiling and have a reset on recast....this would help in fights like the archon or other solo or low add fights

[GeorgeFernell]

On 2023-09-28 at 9:06 PM, (PSN)PickUpYourJelly said:

Instead of getting rid of puddle just included it in his movement when normal crouching like how Limbo can enter the Rift while dodging. Maybe have it open enemies to finishers when emerging.

Please no! Do you even realize how many times you will accidentally lock yourself into animation you don't want instead of moving/shooting doing other useful stuff?

[CoffeeElemental]

I have some concerns about Plunder (and no, it's not because the puddle's getting removed).

From what I understood, Plunder will be somewhat similar to Wukong's Defy (not considering the damage buff). It will also give you 1500 armor at maximum (in the gif you can see it giving Hydroid 1440 or so, so I assume that the cap is 1500, similar to Defy; it's not mentioned whether it's capped or not anyway), but, unlike Defy, will not have an invulnerability window. Which means that when you run out of the Plunder's buff - you might end up in a pretty rough spot, even if the cast animation is pretty quick. And furthermore, even that 1500 armor will stop being reliable at some point (SP Circuit at round ~10 for example).

It still looks like a better survivability option rather than the puddle tho.

Can it be re-cast while the timer is still going?

Will it affect Eximus enemies/other enemies with overguard?

Will it affect boss-type enemies?

P.S. I'm not a Hydroid main, neither he is one of my favorites.

[Zre6]

And you guys keep proving my point majority of the community is hostile against this specific ability without fully understanding the usefulness and keep wanting to take away one of the biggest reason why people that like Hydroid play him in the first place.

6 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

It's gone and it's never coming back. Get over it. 

6 hours ago, Jivy said:

its a puddle after all compared to every other Warframe ability it is extremely underwhelming

5 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

You are asking for a slow, clunky, and deeply inactive ability to be preserved.  It's ugly, ineffective, and bad.  It basically serves one purpose in modern Warframe: invincibility while waiting at extraction so you can stare at your phone or alt tab as the rest of your inept party slowly trundles towards the green marker.

6 hours ago, trst said:

I don't think they're playing the same game as the entire rest of the playerbase. It's slow to move with, slow to kill, very energy inefficient, and good luck getting anyone to actually use it for healing.

And stop acting like Undertow and Plunder has to be mutually exclusive

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If it actually functioned like you suggest, as an ability we could quickly activate to evade attacks and then just as quickly emerge again, ready to fight, I would likely have a very different opinion of it.  It's too slow for that.  While you can do some interesting chain-casting with Tidal Surge or interrupt your melee attacks mid-swing, it's just too clunky to be used as a quick in-and-out defensive ability.  The operator fills that role better than the puddle ever will.

Why can't people settle with the idea of either moving Undertow to Tidal Surge as a hold tap or move Plunder to Tempest Barrage or Tentacle Swarm as a hold tap? Why does it have to be completely removed? This is getting absurd now.

And the argument of it being too slow shows that most people are way too used to extremely fast pace gameplay and that's ok because there are other 40+ frames that accommodate your habit of playing hyperactive.

Then you have Nyx that falls into the same issue but nobody seems to care about it.

[(PSN)PickUpYourJelly]

2 hours ago, GeorgeFernell said:

Please no! Do you even realize how many times you will accidentally lock yourself into animation you don't want instead of moving/shooting doing other useful stuff?

Have thought of that, and remember it's just Hydroid shrinking. He can just move normally while getting covered in water to transitions scale. It does not have to work like it does now with the animation and casting speed lock.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

2 hours ago, Zre6 said:

And you guys keep proving my point majority of the community is hostile against this specific ability without fully understanding the usefulness and keep wanting to take away one of the biggest reason why people that like Hydroid play him in the first place.

And stop acting like Undertow and Plunder has to be mutually exclusive

Why can't people settle with the idea of either moving Undertow to Tidal Surge as a hold tap or move Plunder to Tempest Barrage or Tentacle Swarm as a hold tap? Why does it have to be completely removed? This is getting absurd now.

And the argument of it being too slow shows that most people are way too used to extremely fast pace gameplay and that's ok because there are other 40+ frames that accommodate your habit of playing hyperactive.

Then you have Nyx that falls into the same issue but nobody seems to care about it.

The funny thing is that even with these changes to Hydroid, he will never be a Meta Frame so I don't understand why DE decided to destroy the one cool thing that kept Hydroid unique and different than the rest of the cookie cutter frames we already have.   You are so correct in that the people that don't care about the Puddle being removed, probably didn't play Hydroid ever anyways so of course they don't mind.  The Puddle was NOT the problem with Hydroid which you, I and the few others who enjoy the creative gameplay he offered, apparently are the minority who understand what the Puddle Power offered.   It's ironic that DE says they "listened to the players" when the truth is that the people that actually play Hydroid, don't want the puddle removed but are not against a modification to make it even better.  I just wanted to say thank you for defending what is a Core Element that makes Hydroid unique amongst the Standard Cookie Cutter press Y to win Warframes.  It is good to know that other players enjoy Hydroid and his Puddle and I hope we can convince DE to rethink there "rework" of Hydroid so we can continue to enjoy his Puddle Power Pirate Playstyle!  You are a gentleman and a scholar!

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

#LongLiveThePuddle
#PuddlePower

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

4 hours ago, CapinPotato9711 said:

hey mate, ide love to discuse this further, but im worried were hoging the chat a little.

 

You are not "hogging" at all and I think it is very much in line with the topic so feel free to express your Puddle Play Puns for all to enjoy!  I keep hearing the same broken record about the  Puddle being "too slow", then go play another Warframe that suits your play-style.  Not every Warframe has to be a marginalized Meta blur whizzing by on the screen to be "fun".   Ember gutted with no more World on Fire, now Hydroid's Puddle Power plucked!  What's next  on the chopping block Mesa's Peacemakers pulled and Plundered?

For the Love of Lotus, don't take my Puddle!

[Zre6]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

Not every Warframe has to be a marginalized Meta blur whizzing by on the screen to be "fun".   Ember gutted with no more World on Fire, now Hydroid's Puddle Power plucked!  What's next  on the chopping block Mesa's Peacemakers pulled and Plundered?

I can't stress that enough and this reminds one of the comments like this

And I played a lot of Nekros this year and saw discussions popping up to suggest straight up changing Shadows of the Dead because they see it as a grief ability that confused a lot of people, which could be improved visually like Revenant's Thralls. While most people only value him like a loot frame using Desecrate like with Hydroid back in the days with his Pilfering Swarm and ignored the rest of the kit.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Zre6
typo

[bangarang35]

I think some individuals are confused about what's being asked for with the puddle and the players' expectations who want to keep it. The puddle is debatably Hydroid's most iconic ability, and it is very unique even if it's not effective in it's current state. Because it's so funny, it's also fun to use. Without a doubt it does very selfishly provide good survivability for Hydroid too. What the players really wanted was an upgraded or tweaked puddle. DE knows that which is why Pablo said in the Devstream they were trying to make an improved puddle, but it sounded like it would've taken more time to perfect the upgrade then they were willing to give. As a result, it does bring down Hydroid's uniqueness and possibly his fun to many of players, especially Hydroid mains. The goal is to maintain/increase effectiveness, fun, and uniqueness simultaneously. This shown rework increases effectiveness, but it lowers his uniqueness. He is a bit more bland and generic now honestly. So the rework was not a complete success as a result, unless they make future changes.

However, it is possible to keep every idea from the new rework, while also reworking the puddle in some fashion. It doesn't have to be the exact same puddle. Perhaps it could be an improved or tweaked version. Nonetheless, adding Undertow back in somehow increases uniqueness again and makes this a higher quality rework overall. There are many ways to skin this cat. The crouch and roll slots are wide open to put the puddle on, kinda like Limbo rolls into the rift. I've suggested using the roll for the puddle and making it to where Hydroid goes into Undertow while traveling in his roll so he's safe and then he pops back up like a geyser at the end of the roll creating a shockwave that can stun nearby enemies for a few seconds. Others players have suggested a charge mechanic on one of the other abilities. Any of these suggestions are viable options and don't remove even a hint of the new reworks ideas. So this doesn't have to be a situation where we have to choose between him being good or unique. We can have it all. That's what the players really want who are trying to save the puddle, and it's fair to want that. So many warframes have it all: Uniqueness, effectiveness, and fun. There's no reason Hydroid can't as well or any other frame who gets a rework for that matter.

 

#SaveThePuddle

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by bangarang35

[CosoMalvadoNG]

The comments on this post remind me of those on the Grendel rework, ''the only thing I like'', ''the best thing it has'', ''meta''.

Just because Undertow won't be there anymore? really? With what you tell me I can only understand one thing, you all understand that the 0.80%+- of the players base who use Hydroid today going stop playing it? just for the puddle? But what happens to the 99.20% of players who don't use it?

In the end it all comes down to: ''I don't like it for x reason'', ''I play it because it has a puddle'', ''if they take away the puddle I'll stop playing it'', ''without a puddle it's no longer the same''. Just baby cries.

_{I wonder, do players like a monotonous or static gameplay with which they can farm semi afk without playing the game? Is they judgment just poor?} 

[(NSW)Yeyeg]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

The comments on this post remind me of those on the Grendel rework, ''the only thing I like'', ''the best thing it has'', ''meta''.

Just because Undertow won't be there anymore? really? With what you tell me I can only understand one thing, you all understand that the 0.80%+- of the players base who use Hydroid today going stop playing it? just for the puddle? But what happens to the 99.20% of players who don't use it?

In the end it all comes down to: ''I don't like it for x reason'', ''I play it because it has a puddle'', ''if they take away the puddle I'll stop playing it'', ''without a puddle it's no longer the same''. Just baby cries.

_{I wonder, do players like a monotonous or static gameplay with which they can farm semi afk without playing the game? Is they judgment just poor?} 

How is people liking a certain playstyle that you don't crying? Seems to me that you are just being rude for no reason

Who are you to judge?

Edited October 1, 2023 by (NSW)Yeyeg

[Snake]

On 2023-09-28 at 10:37 AM, [DE]Juice said:

Passive Changes

Hydroid’s new Passive will affect an enemy once Hydroid damages them, lasting until their death. It makes the first instance of Corrosive Status on an enemy remove 50% of their Armor rather than 26%. Not only will this make the first Corrosive Status stronger, but it also means Corrosion Status can reach 100% armor reduction with full stacks!

This is great for Armored units.

HOWEVER Anything with shields...

 

[MistaDrew2]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

The comments on this post remind me of those on the Grendel rework, ''the only thing I like'', ''the best thing it has'', ''meta''.

Just because Undertow won't be there anymore? really? With what you tell me I can only understand one thing, you all understand that the 0.80%+- of the players base who use Hydroid today going stop playing it? just for the puddle? But what happens to the 99.20% of players who don't use it?

In the end it all comes down to: ''I don't like it for x reason'', ''I play it because it has a puddle'', ''if they take away the puddle I'll stop playing it'', ''without a puddle it's no longer the same''. Just baby cries.

_{I wonder, do players like a monotonous or static gameplay with which they can farm semi afk without playing the game? Is they judgment just poor?} 

what will happen is the 99.20% of players will still keep playing their mains and the .80% that play hydroid lose their fun. you guys have 52 other frames to choose from and it seems like you want to make hydroid less unique just so you have 1 extra option for grineer mobile defense or something. ive already sorta talked about this so im not gonna rehash but jeez what is it about hydroid players having opinions has you so worked up... 

[GeorgeFernell]

3 hours ago, MistaDrew2 said:

what will happen is the 99.20% of players will still keep playing their mains and the .80% that play hydroid lose their fun. you guys have 52 other frames to choose from and it seems like you want to make hydroid less unique just so you have 1 extra option for grineer mobile defense or something. ive already sorta talked about this so im not gonna rehash but jeez what is it about hydroid players having opinions has you so worked up... 

Here's the thing, 0.8% who are advocating for "fun" also use the frame in question to meme once a month, and the rest of the time they ALSO run the meta because games tedious grind requires efficiency and speed.

While I see that this rework is far from perfect (for gods sake they just renamed "Pillage" into "Plunder", they are not even hiding it) I think removal of puddle is the best change for everyone.

The only way I could agree to it if you could PLACE a puddle somewhere and keep playing, that would be somewhat in character as creating the abyss that swallows enemies & such. But being useless pile of garbage on the floor and advocating that its FUN, you are lying to yourself and you know it.

[(PSN)aarott]

Also, gotta say 'Turn into an invincible pool of water and drown enemies within yourself with potentially infinite scaling damage and invincibility' is way more catchy than "outgoing gun number slightly up, incoming gun number slightly down, and armour strip enemies that have lost all their armour bonuses already". 

And that's before the part where we have to dust the map in corrosive stacks, WITHOUT killing enemies, and then press Plunder, BEFORE our allies kill all those effectively no armour enemies.

>*BUT UNDERTOW S-L-O-W*

Just make it fast, then. 

Honestly when they said they were going to remove an ability, I was hoping take out tidal surge and accelerate undertow, because fast puddle'd make surge entirely redundant. And, y'know, would have been interesting, unlike adding an egg timer damage + survivability buff. 

[(NSW)Yeyeg]

6 minutes ago, GeorgeFernell said:

Here's the thing, 0.8% who are advocating for "fun" also use the frame in question to meme once a month, and the rest of the time they ALSO run the meta because games tedious grind requires efficiency and speed.

While I see that this rework is far from perfect (for gods sake they just renamed "Pillage" into "Plunder", they are not even hiding it) I think removal of puddle is the best change for everyone.

The only way I could agree to it if you could PLACE a puddle somewhere and keep playing, that would be somewhat in character as creating the abyss that swallows enemies & such. But being useless pile of garbage on the floor and advocating that its FUN, you are lying to yourself and you know it.

Why is it so unbelievable to you people that we actually like playing hydroid, main him and have him as our most used frame?

We exist, and when our favourite boy is getting changes we want to make it so that we will still be maining him after them