Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Hydroid Rework

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

I'm just kind of surprised in general that people say Puddle is slow.
It can be slow if you build it that way, yeah... But you have Bullet Jump + Undertow while in the air to carry you over. It's great in certain maps too. You have then the option to jump/roll out of the pool (which is also quick by the way) or Surge to the destination you want to go then jump while Surging to make tight corners. It's also a nice bonus that you can get some finishers connect right after jumping.

Hydroid has mobility with the puddle if he wants to... Just a bit confused no one has mentioned it yet.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Turritopsis_Dohrnii

[Zre6]

4 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

It's like if DE decided to get rid of Banshee's Soundquake and in response we get tpeople demanding it back because it's fun when they stand in one spot after pressing a button.

12 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

Also with the logic that "stationary gameplay = less fun", I should prepare for the rework of Mesa's 4 or Nyx's 4, to name a few abilities out there

Be careful what you wish for.

And Mesa is a very popular frame along with the few frames with the highest usage rate and I can't imagine the amount of pushback it will get for having a similar treatment.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Zre6
typo, mistype

[Mnanmu]

I've reviewed the showcase of the upcoming Hydroid rework and reread the developer workshop a few times over, so here are my thoughts on it:

• The passive is a nice touch to make it so the corrosive status effect can actually full strip, but I feel like that by itself is a bit... bland? I feel like it could use something other than just a buff to a single status effect that should've done this effect in the first place.
• NO MORE CHARGING OF TEMPEST BARRAGE OR TENTACLE SWARM! No longer will Natural Talent be a mandatory mod on all of my builds! Tempest Barrage no longer flinging enemies around is great and steerable Tidal Surge is amazing. These are all great changes.
• Plunder is... weird. The effect of making the armor strip from corrosive procs permanent is interesting, and the extra armor and corrosive damage is nice to have, but I think it's a bit weird in some areas.
  • Relying on the number of corrosive procs to generate the stat increases means it could get some pretty silly numbers depending on enemy density, but I'm worried about whether or not there would be a floor for the stats (like how Defy has a minimum armor bonus of 50 but scales with incoming damage)
  • It looks like every use of Plunder erases the current armor/damage bonus and grants a new bonus, even if it's lower. This lack of snapshotting or a way to refresh its duration will likely end up making Hydroid's survivability a bit worse considering the outright removal of the puddle.
  • Yes, I do miss the puddle. I know it was bad, but it was unique. Plunder feels like a more gimmicky Defy.
• The removal of Tentacle Swarm's flailing of enemies is a change that I'm surprised took this long to be implemented. One thing that wasn't covered in the rework is how the tentacles actually spawn and what they do after being spawned.
  • Tentacles spawn on enemies inside of its radius, which makes it easier to ensnare enemies on the initial cast, but once the enemies are cleared out, the tentacles just sit in the same spot, including ones that didn't grab enemies when the ability was first used, not doing anything.

Overall, I think most of these changes are pretty good for Hydroid. Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm became far easier to use and Tidal Surge becomes a much better mobility tool with a bit of added survivability. Plunder is a bit iffy to me but I have yet to test it myself. Unfortunately, it's not perfect in my eyes, so here are a few additional changes I'd make

• Add Undertow's functionality to the passive as a a dodge/roll effect. Rolling while grounded causes Hydroid to liquify into the puddle form, making him invincible but unable to use weapons or abilities, and allowing him to slip under most things
  • Limbo got the same treatment with his original ability to enter the rift being turned into his rift walking passive, and it would give Hydroids the ability to keep their beloved puddle
  • To make it a bit more balanced, he wouldn't be able to use abilities while in puddle form, nor should he be able to drag enemies into the puddle for the infinitely scaling damage effect that it has right now. That would be a bit much for one part of a passive in my opinion
• Recasting Plunder should keep a higher bonus and refresh its duration if the new bonuses would get worse, and should grant a minimum armor and damage bonus (nothing too extreme though, Defy's maximum armor is 30 times higher than the base)
• Tentacle Swarm's tentacles should move to grab new enemies after being inactive for a period of time (~3-5 seconds?)
  • Also add a watery effect across the whole of Tentacle Swarm's area to better visualize where Tentacle Swarm covers

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 15 horas, ghoti0315 dijo:

Also with the logic that "stationary gameplay = less fun", I should prepare for the rework of Mesa's 4 or Nyx's 4, to name a few abilities out there

Lol, are you seriously comparing Peacemaker and Absorb with Undertow, have the tears come to this point? 

• Pacemaker, it's a good ability, it's not an automatic ability that when you use it you become immortal while sucking in enemies and you stand there watching while your entire squad leaves you in the dust! seriously enough of the nonsense.
• Absorb on the other hand is a piece of crap even worse than Undertow (I like Undertow but realistically the ability is a meme nowadays) and something that makes no sense to compare because they are different abilities.

hace 6 horas, (PSN)rexis12 dijo:

I'm sorry, are you ASKING for Warframe Devs who have explicitly been against Automated Invincible strats, to the point of nerfing the whole Specter system as a whole, to instead make it so that a Invincible, True Damage Over Time, with no enemy limit and ability to drag into the water, is now relevant in the current game?

You see @ghoti0315? it is not so difficult.

Edited October 2, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[Joewoof]

As a longtime Hydroid main for 5 years, I'm happy with what I see so far. I'm really glad that DE is leaning towards the "meta" playstyle of high-level Hydroid players, relying on Tidal Surge as the "build-around" thematic ability instead of Undertow. I foresee a high-skill playstyle of using Tidal Surge to group up enemies, which applies Corrosive to all of them, using Plunder, then ground-slamming them. An alternative, defensive playstyle of applying Corrosive/Viral rain to a large area might also be possible now, by reducing casting speed and increasing the duration of Tempest Barrage. Seems fun and versatile.

That said, I hope where Tidal Surge deposits enemies a bit more in front. In the devstream, Hydroid had to turn around and attack enemies grouped with Tidal Surge. It would be nice if you don't have to do that, and can just melee them in front of you once Tidal Surge ends.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

6 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

It's so weird people want to keep Undertow on the grounds of it being 'Unique'. Like yeah the alternative is apparently now Hydroid is 'Boring', but if like 1 part of a Warframes kit is what makes them 'Iconic' and it's a slow, invulnerable, true DOT attack, I can't help but feel like that should be grounds of them looking into the rework.

It's like if DE decided to get rid of Banshee's Soundquake and in response we get tpeople demanding it back because it's fun when they stand in one spot after pressing a button.

'Just Make it Faster/Stronger'

I'm sorry, are you ASKING for Warframe Devs who have explicitly been against Automated Invincible strats, to the point of nerfing the whole Specter system as a whole, to instead make it so that a Invincible, True Damage Over Time, with no enemy limit and ability to drag into the water, is now relevant in the current game?

Ummm hello remember those little bundles of joy DE made to thwart Invincibility, Nullifiers and the latest rendition of Eximus with Overguard who will ruin your Puddle fun? Obviously you don't play Hydroid or you would know that only the Tentacles do True Damage and the Puddle does Impact Damage.  I don't think dragging ONE enemy at a time into the Puddle is board wiping and trivializing the game.  Mesa and Saryn on the other hand...  There is NO equivalent Power to undertow in the game so yes it is UNIQUE and worthy of keeping also because it is fun.  I don't need you to tell me what Warframe I need to play nor what I consider fun so enough with your Puddle Hate!

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

#LongLiveThePuddle
#PuddlePower

[SDGDen]

puddle should have stayed and been improved to work better.

>higher mobility in puddle mode
>tidal surge cheaper while puddled
>enemies float in puddle so they're not "obscured" from other players
>allow eximus to hit hydroid even in puddle mode (to fix the "immortality = AFK" issue)

 

 

[Northern_Psycho]

5 hours ago, Mnanmu said:

Yes, I do miss the puddle. I know it was bad, but it was unique. Plunder feels like a more gimmicky Defy

I do not care for the puddle. It was joke that once it got old, you're just left with a bad ability. 
Terrible damage, afk playstyle, stuck in one place* and the only value was the immortality. That's not a good thing. I can imagine the nightmare trying to balance this thing properly. If its too strong, you're only incentivizing sitting in the puddle. (thus "afk" strat). If its too weak, what's even the point of using it?

5 hours ago, Mnanmu said:

The removal of Tentacle Swarm's flailing of enemies is a change that I'm surprised took this long to be implemented. One thing that wasn't covered in the rework is how the tentacles actually spawn and what they do after being spawned.

• Tentacles spawn on enemies inside of its radius, which makes it easier to ensnare enemies on the initial cast, but once the enemies are cleared out, the tentacles just sit in the same spot, including ones that didn't grab enemies when the ability was first used, not doing anything.

 

As far as I understood it, Pablo mentioned it will spawn a new tentacle under and enemy that walks into the radius?

Also, it now has a blue ring showing its full radius. So thats a good addition

5 hours ago, Mnanmu said:

Add Undertow's functionality to the passive as a a dodge/roll effect. Rolling while grounded causes Hydroid to liquify into the puddle form, making him invincible but unable to use weapons or abilities, and allowing him to slip under most things

• Limbo got the same treatment with his original ability to enter the rift being turned into his rift walking passive, and it would give Hydroids the ability to keep their beloved puddle
• To make it a bit more balanced, he wouldn't be able to use abilities while in puddle form, nor should he be able to drag enemies into the puddle for the infinitely scaling damage effect that it has right now. That would be a bit much for one part of a passive in my opinion

 

Giving him a unique roll animation so he goes puddle mode while on the ground, then resurface after the roll is over would be kinda cool ngl. And if it gets some added utility/survivability tool I'd be interested for sure.
As long as it stays as a brief moment and not like you're actually just going puddle mode and sit twiddling your thumbs while waiting for your HP to regen. At that point I'd just take diet Cloud walker in the form of his Tidal surge to heal. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Northern_Psycho
spelling, and added another sentence

[AegidiusF]

I just hope the work they've done with Hydroid (I'm not talking about the puddle, whose lost makes me a bit sad) will not stop : there are still many frames that deserve a bit more love (not really a rework, but only an update) : as an exemple, Equinox 3rd could receive the same kind of cap that Sevagoth' Gloom got (for more consistency) ; Nekros could get some tweaks, specially his 1st ability ; Banshee's 4th ability needs some changes (and they may clarify the weird undocumented mechanics that she has got since last year, like her 1st innate ~33% armor strip) ; Nyx' 4th ability additional energy drain deserves to be removed or at least changed (specially after the arrival of the Circuit), because it leads to energy depletion in just one shot on high level content ; Frost 2nd ability ; Caliban 1st ability ; Inaros 2nd and 3rd abilities ; Valkyr 1st ability ; Loki 1st ability ; Oberon energy drain could get some changes ; Atlas' Petrify area of effect... a lot of things to look at...

Edited October 2, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[Northern_Psycho]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Personally I liked his full kit as well. His puddle stands out, but standing in a harsh storm while it knocks people around, spawning tentacles everywhere, or rushing along corridors is pretty fun too.

Will have to see what the changes are like and what we can do with them, but puddle stands out as one of those abilities that didn’t need to be changed too much and because it behaves differently it was fun to use as an alternative; simplification and standardisation can easily run counter to the concept of different and nuanced, and if the changes are aimed at a bunch of players who complained about “Viability” while they wield overkill AoE and go out of their way to design their builds so that their gameplay has practically no nuance to it, then it’s on a path to some boring-ass gameplay with few alternatives

Let's not be dishonest here...
Puddle was just flat out bad. It incentivized afk playing and like DE mentioned, enemy denial. Yes, you could shoot the puddle. But nobody ever does and just shooting the enemy without puddling them would go faster and easier. 
There is no value to the puddle outside of "haha funny water puddle lmaooo ecks dee"
It's a joke that went on for far too long. 

And if by "nuance" you mean sit still while enemies are CC'd, unable to do anything, and very slowly getting tickled every 2 seconds until death, then I'll gladly take Plunder any day of the week. 
(Besides, he still gets to keep his Tempest barrage, Tidal wave, and Kraken. How is the puddle his iconic ability!?)

[ThomasBrody]

On 2023-09-30 at 11:56 PM, bangarang35 said:

I think some individuals are confused about what's being asked for with the puddle and the players' expectations who want to keep it. The puddle is debatably Hydroid's most iconic ability, and it is very unique even if it's not effective in it's current state. Because it's so funny, it's also fun to use. Without a doubt it does very selfishly provide good survivability for Hydroid too. What the players really wanted was an upgraded or tweaked puddle. DE knows that which is why Pablo said in the Devstream they were trying to make an improved puddle, but it sounded like it would've taken more time to perfect the upgrade then they were willing to give. As a result, it does bring down Hydroid's uniqueness and possibly his fun to many of players, especially Hydroid mains. The goal is to maintain/increase effectiveness, fun, and uniqueness simultaneously. This shown rework increases effectiveness, but it lowers his uniqueness. He is a bit more bland and generic now honestly. So the rework was not a complete success as a result, unless they make future changes.

However, it is possible to keep every idea from the new rework, while also reworking the puddle in some fashion. It doesn't have to be the exact same puddle. Perhaps it could be an improved or tweaked version. Nonetheless, adding Undertow back in somehow increases uniqueness again and makes this a higher quality rework overall. There are many ways to skin this cat. The crouch and roll slots are wide open to put the puddle on, kinda like Limbo rolls into the rift. I've suggested using the roll for the puddle and making it to where Hydroid goes into Undertow while traveling in his roll so he's safe and then he pops back up like a geyser at the end of the roll creating a shockwave that can stun nearby enemies for a few seconds. Others players have suggested a charge mechanic on one of the other abilities. Any of these suggestions are viable options and don't remove even a hint of the new reworks ideas. So this doesn't have to be a situation where we have to choose between him being good or unique. We can have it all. That's what the players really want who are trying to save the puddle, and it's fair to want that. So many warframes have it all: Uniqueness, effectiveness, and fun. There's no reason Hydroid can't as well or any other frame who gets a rework for that matter.

 

#SaveThePuddle

 

The issue is people don't have the exact some want for just something puddle theme'd,

Some want just the puddle  visually in some way

Others want to absolutely BECOME the puddle in some way

Some want the puddle to be the exact same but faster movement while in the puddle.

And theres others that want nothing to do with the puddle.

Theres even people that HATE anything pirate theme'd about him and want that kind of stuffed removed entirely

There is zero ways to please everyone.

The people that are most satisfied with the rework aren't saying anything, and the people that hate it are saying the most, it makes it seem like theres more people that hate it than love it but that might not be the case. It's just the people that are dissatisfied are much more likely to say something.

 

[Zre6]

So you have to understand something and stop bashing people that want to keep the puddle:

People in this post are fine with the rework for the most part, but some individuals don't like the idea of the puddle be completely removed, and would like it preserved in some way.  Who knows how long do we have to wait for another change for this frame again, because it usually means years, so they fear that it will be like this for a very long time. Some might embrace the idea of losing the puddle but some don't. And the ones don't, value it in a useful way like survivability and easy finisher , instead of the usual afk talk which most people only look at surface level and dismiss.

The only way I think that make sense to keep the puddle, is to make it as a hold tap for Tidal Surge or integrate the augment effects to the ability itself and make the puddle the augment and use it with hold tap. Players who don't like the puddle will use the new Hydroid as intended, and people who like the puddle can use it at the cost of a mod slot, making it optional then both side will be happy.

I'm so tired of this whole thing now.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Zre6

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, Northern_Psycho said:

Let's not be dishonest here...
Puddle was just flat out bad. It incentivized afk playing and like DE mentioned, enemy denial. Yes, you could shoot the puddle. But nobody ever does and just shooting the enemy without puddling them would go faster and easier. 
There is no value to the puddle outside of "haha funny water puddle lmaooo ecks dee"
It's a joke that went on for far too long. 

And if by "nuance" you mean sit still while enemies are CC'd, unable to do anything, and very slowly getting tickled every 2 seconds until death, then I'll gladly take Plunder any day of the week. 
(Besides, he still gets to keep his Tempest barrage, Tidal wave, and Kraken. How is the puddle his iconic ability!?)

Nuance is basically anything that’s different to the AoE efficient grindspam. Puddle was a funny bit of kit that could still be useable, that’s not a problem, particularly in this day where being too powerful is a common complaint. Sucking enemies in to drown is thematically pleasing and standing guard at an entrance where enemies would trip and fall in can be fun, doing it as a quick escape when things get hairy can be good, knowing when to use it when it’ll be at its most effective and when it’ll be at its least effective is a thing, and holding enemies can be beneficial (not that players adhering to the idea of “Death is the best form of CC” would care), plus whatever fun ways to use it others came up with. If DE wanted to tweak it, sure, but if it didn’t mechanically gel with a bunch of players blasting through everything who barely do any playing around, so be it; you got like 50 other frames to pick from if you’re so strapped for that sense of “I’m gonna grind my little heart out like it’s a second job”.

Plus this is a community that barely needs a gentle nudge towards AFK play and they do their damndest to seek it out most of the time; the fact that they couldn’t bear to use Hydroid was actually a blessing since anything they touch turns to boring-ass gameplay, like Midas but backwards, and he was left alone but still useable for those who wanted to use him for what he was while he quietly takes the inevitable spot of “Worst frame according to a bunch of grindheads”, which now something else is just going to take that spot anyways until All Is Boring-ass Gameplay

Edited October 2, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[SolStreak]

I kinda agree but also I kinda accepts Plunder already.

[Skoomaseller]

Tbh, while I said I'm ok with undertow being gone, I don't see why it can't stay as an alt-cast.

Tap cast: Plunder

Hold cast: Undertow.

Cast tempest barrage, tap cast 3 for plunder armor strip, then hold cast to drown everyone as they take % hp scaling damage. Rinse repeat.

I think it fits his controller/AOE lockdown theme very well, and I think Plunder has excellent synergy with Undertow.

Not a fan of being a puddle? No problem, just don't hold cast 3. Just tap cast and shoot!

Edited October 2, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[(PSN)aarott]

17 hours ago, ThomasBrody said:

hydroids kit flows and synergies  are way better now, with 3 abilities + passive directly combining  on top of each other.  

It's hard to call Plunder synergistic. A requirement does not by itself a synergy make. 

 

17 hours ago, ThomasBrody said:

Is there any other warframe that would be able to gather and run away with enemies like that?

Only Inaros, admittedly another old frame who could do with a lot of attention. The most recent enemy denying frame that comes to mind is maybe Xaku with his Gaze. It's not the only way to mess up witha  survival, but, I'll admit, fair point. I'd go as far as to say it should have a timer, which goes with general suggestion that Surge and Tow should be combined somehow. 

 

18 hours ago, ThomasBrody said:

does 1k armour and 300% corrosive weapon damage NOT sound good enough to you?

Honestly? No. I'm am not the kind of person to be impressed by 'gun do bigger number'. 

 

18 hours ago, ThomasBrody said:

I rarely rarely rarely see a hydroid, and when I do, they are DEFINITELY not just sitting there doing puddle.

And well you shouldn't, it's at it's best when used a reactive ability. 

 

Anyway, with that said, let me tell you all the reasons I hate Plunder, with respect to it replacing undertow:

1-      Undertow was visually, thematically and mechanically interesting. I’m a water frame who turns into water, that’s cool. Plunder and its “Get a glow matching your energy colour and numbers go up” is way less interesting, irrespective of how effective it is. If it came with an exalted anchor or had some cool fog effects I’d be much happier.

2-      Plunder’s an egg timer ability, which I just hate on principle. It’s a button I turn on, and then have to keep an eye on. Undertow was defence you called on when you needed it, and turned off when you didn’t. Much more interactive, you use it situationally rather than trying to maximise uptime.

3-      Not only is it an egg timer, it’s an egg timer that requires setup, you need to dust enemies in corrosive procs and THEN use it. Revenant, Rhino, Trinity etc? Their shield pops or they get a nasty slash proc or whatever, they have a chance to go “oh no! [press button] But now I’m fine!” Undertow can do that too, pop in undertow when threatened to either combo with rolling guard or get his shields up with augur set. Plunder? If you don’t have the conditions right before the situation goes south, you can’t get more defence when you need it, and you get to die. It’s kind of the same problem as Oberon, except Oberon doesn’t rely on enemies being around and left alive by allies to get his defence buffs.

4-      Current Hydroid has a lot of freedom in how he builds. You can health tank, you can shield tank, or you could even go just rolling guard like Limbo can. You can go balanced, or focus on range, or strength, or duration, or any combination of the above. You could even dump all the above Plunder? Well, it’s an egg timer, with conditional setup requirements, so we’re building duration. And our survivability is health tanking now, so we’re building health and probably adaptation and fiber. And it’s 75 energy and likely needs to be used in combination with other abilities for it to work properly, so we’re probably getting and some combination of energize, primed flow, equilibrium and/or efficiency, maybe an energy granting subsume while we’re here. And assuming the bonus gun damage is dependant on strength, we’ll probably build that too. And look at that, we’re an augment away from our build being filled up for us already.

5-      All Undertow needed was a barrage that did proper old school corrosive and a surge that didn’t fling enemies everywhere. And he’s getting both those things, but it’s right when he’s losing undertow. Meanwhile plunder has anti-synergy since it only removes armour from enemies that have their armour neutralised, where your other abilities should be continuously applying corrosive procs and thus continuously neutralising armour. And, and bonus corrosive damage against enemies with their ferrite removed is an L. 

 

So, yeah, those are my reasons I hate Plunder. Boring, egg timer, unreactive, Oberon levels of setup along with Nidus levels of hating your friends, build limiting, and anti-synergistic. About the only thing I’ll say in Plunder’s favour is that it’s good for the meta where every priority target is immune to powers but susceptible to critty-bang-bang. And to be clear, I hate this meta.

[AegidiusF]

Le 02/10/2023 à 15:44, (PSN)aarott a dit :

5-      All Undertow needed was a barrage that did proper old school corrosive and a surge that didn’t fling enemies everywhere. And he’s getting both those things, but it’s right when he’s losing undertow. Meanwhile plunder has anti-synergy since it only removes armour from enemies that have their armour neutralised, where your other abilities should be continuously applying corrosive procs and thus continuously neutralising armour. And, and bonus corrosive damage against enemies with their ferrite removed is an L. 

Even though I pretty like Plunder, I'm a bit sad to lost Undertow, because, as you said, it was useful to cover while under assault and cast CC abilities while regeneration shields (and HP).

I'd like to, nevertheless, add one more point to your list : Plunder does not have any synergy with Tantacle Swarm, because this ability already makes True Damage, that bypasses armor anyway. On the other hand, Undertow gives Tentacle Swarm a +100% damage bonus.

Edited October 3, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[(XBOX)Unpure Frost]

I am sad that Undertow is being removed. That is a unique skill. Also very helpful and fun to play, especially in defense missions. Really a shame beyond measure.

Both of the cited arguments against this ability could have been dispelled by making the movement faster and increasing the damage. I'm really disappointed.😢

[(PSN)aarott]

19 hours ago, ThomasBrody said:

Except it doesn't work like puddle.

Well, no, there are a lot of mechanical differences. But it shows how undertow ~could~ be made to fit modern meta.

What if - Undertow was a teleport that left two big puddles at entry and exit, rather than just turning you into one indefinitely? 

What if - puddles were left behind after all his other abilities as a kind of pseudo-passive?

What if - puddles didn't hide targets from allies, but instead reduced their resistances to help both you and your team?

[HiFixx]

Aside from what I last said in this post (which probably came off as a bit rude, sorry) puddle didn't provide much. From what I'm seeing off this post, some of the people are defending puddle simply because it stands out most, not just from Hydroid's kit, but from just about any other ability in the game (Aside from Limbo). I get that it's fun to use, hell, I've even enjoyed it myself, but I also want him to fit well in endgame content, like Steel Path. Tried using Hydroid once in Steel Path, wasn't a great choice. Puddle scales horrendously, damage was lackluster, and movement was washed away (pun intended). Some of you guys are also defending it for it's uses and what it provides to the table. Kudos to you for seeing the positives, but personally, I felt like it did almost nothing, aside from invincibility and ability spam. On paper, puddle sounds great! But in practice, it was bad.

A puddle of water should not at all be considered his "iconic ability" when he's got a whole squid in his back pocket.

From what I saw on the devstream, plunder looks like a solid ability over undertow , as it'll promote more moving around, and less "let me sit here and wait for something to walk by."

Plus, Hydroid's got the coolest deluxe skin I've seen so far, don't you think it's better to see what you spent your plat on instead of looking at a tiny puddle?

[(XBOX)PortalGrim223]

Love all of these changes, but I really am gonna miss the puddle. I know it didn't really fit the mobility of warframe, but it actually did have some merit if used right. I think it would have been nice if it had been absorbed into tidal surge similar to zephyrs rework when tail wind and dive bomb were combined. You could have made it tap to dash and hold to be a puddle. Also could have given it the grendel treatment by limiting the number of enemies held in the puddle as well as showing their life gauge. With the other changes being made to hydroid if the puddle did corrosive damage it would actually be pretty strong without needing buffed. As far as holding enemies captive I thought there was already a change that allowed your teammates to shoot and deal damage to enemies in the puddle. I know programming is difficult but again I am going to miss the puddle, and while some will disagree it was part of hydroids identity and could actually be fun. While it wasn't everyones cup of tea, or the most meta thing it could still be fun and unique way to play. Please bring puddle back 😭 

[CapinPotato9711]

 While ive already given my peice about undertow (repeatedly...o_osorry) I feel like i should go into better detail about what i like about this update. I feel slightly bad for only realy mentioning my complaints.

 

as I breifly stated, Im exited for most parts of this update.   the new passive ability provides hydroid with much needed damage buff, stripping 50% armor on anything they damage, 

which can reach 100% with aditional corosive procs. the new tempast barrage now does base corrosive, makeing it ideal for procking hydroids passive, and can also deal viral with the augment, allowing more damage based mods to be applied to wepons.  

hydroids two will no longer be able to chuck enemys into the abyss, but it will allow grouping without needing to faceplant a wall. it will also allow for controled stearing, so im exited to see how bad i am at turning with this.

plunder seems to have a similar effect to the passive, though also provides bonus armour, and wepon damage. how much is still to be determened. it can also provide health to you and team mates with the augment, which provides much better healing then undertow did. while it does not provide the imidiate invulnrability and invisability undertow did, it does have its merrits.

the kraken (or garry as I call them) no longer flings enemys into orbit, and while as entertaining as that was, I am more then greatfull I no longer need to witness this anymore .

I prefer my physics intact :)

 

but overall, the update more then improves hydroid, and while it sucks that undertow was removed, ide rather have the new abilitys then old. the devs did a good job on this one, working on it while making a new frame as well. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by CapinPotato9711
side note: if undertow could be merged into tidal surge, that would be highly apreciated

[PsiWarp]

It was missing from both the workshop and overview, but mentioned in Devstream 173. New Tentacle Swarm does have a persistent spawn area (seawater visuals on the ground, looks awesome) that indicate where unoccupied tentacles can re-emerge below new enemies automatically as they walk in.

A bit like Bastille, but instead does Corrosive damage and proc per second.

Edited October 2, 2023 by PsiWarp

[(NSW)Yeyeg]

I really don't get why they didn't fuse undertow with his 2, it's such a braindead fix

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 11 horas, (NSW)AegisFifi dijo:

I just hope the work they've done with Hydroid (I'm not talking about the puddle, whose lost makes me a bit sad) will not stop : there are still many frames that deserve a bit more love (not really a rework, but only an update) : as an exemple, Equinox 3rd could receive the same kind of cap that Sevagoth' Gloom got (for more consistency) ; Nekros could get some tweaks, specially his 1st ability ; Banshee's 4th ability needs some changes (and they may clarify the weird undocumented mechanics that she has got since last year, like her 1st innate ~33% armor strip) ; Nyx' 4th ability additional energy drain deserves to be removed or at least changed (specially after the arrival of the Circuit), because it leads to energy depletion in just one shot on high level content ; Frost 2nd ability ; Caliban 1st ability ; Inaros 2nd and 3rd abilities ; Valkyr 1st ability ; Loki 1st ability ; Oberon energy drain could get some changes ; Atlas' Petrify area of effect... a lot of things to look at...

Yes friend, Pablo already said that after duviri he was going to focus more on the reworks and touch-ups.

hace 6 horas, (NSW)AegisFifi dijo:

I'd like to, nevertheless, add one more point to your list : Plunder does not have any synergy with Tantacle Swarm, because this ability already makes True Damage, that bypasses armor anyway. On the other hand, Undertow gives Tentacle Swarm a +100% damage bonus.

That is not correct, in this gif you can see that Tentacle Swamp gonna do corrosive damage.  So, there are a synergy.

Edited October 2, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text