SP Circuit change petition to pathos clamps insteaf of the suggested Rivens for exchange of incarnons

[ModPhreak]

I have no use for another way to get Rivens. There are so many places they drop or you can buy them for resources several places. The current max is also just 180 and I have 40 veiled rivens waiting for a spot to be able to be unveiled, which is really tedious as well.

This is why I suggest the logical change to pathos clamps, as basically all other resources except a few are rewards in the Circuit or from the progression. There is only the one place to get them and it would even work as a pity system for the available Arcanes for the current week, since many of us now have the basic ones maxed.

For the time it takes to farm it, I would suggest 10 at step 5 and 20 at step 10. Making it less efficient than doing the Duviri quest, but still worth while.

I would really appreciate if DE could implement a way to dissolve Acranes in pathos clamps or something in that way for us to use the multiple we now get in surplus from all the different ways to get Arcanes. That could be a different petition but related. Else maybe a universal medallion and perhaps make that convertible into pathos clamps somehow.

[BroDutt]

I suggested we can choose those rare Eidolon/Orphix Arcane (arcane energize, grace etc) as an option. Riven is not worth it for the grind. Those Arcane aren't that meta anymore compare to Zariman and some of Duviri Arcane.

[DrivaMain]

7 minutes ago, BroDutt said:

I suggested we can choose those rare Eidolon/Orphix Arcane (arcane energize, grace etc) as an option. Riven is not worth it for the grind. Those Arcane aren't that meta anymore compare to Zariman and some of Duviri Arcane.

DE won't kill the lucrative Eioldon arcane market overnight permanently, so that's not going to happen. Having said that, having more options would be welcome, be it Pathos Clamps, Duviri Arcanes, other open world exclusive resources, large amount of focus, etc.

[Pakaku]

They really should just overhaul Circuit with a currency system, and give Acthris her own Circuit shop (for both varieties) to sell incarnon adapters, clamps, Duviri resources, etc. It could also solve the issue with the weekly adapter rotations if done right.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

But what good are Pathos Clamps?

for buying Acrithis's Arcanes? anyone who has been playing so long as to Forgo the Incarnon rewards is also at the point that they're done with the Arcanes too.

Rivens have the distinction of Existing Outside the Duviri Content Island; which is why they're a great choice for when that content has run its course.

[BroDutt]

59 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

But what good are Pathos Clamps?

for buying Acrithis's Arcanes? anyone who has been playing so long as to Forgo the Incarnon rewards is also at the point that they're done with the Arcanes too

You never look at Acrithis shop weren't you? There are more option rather than NFT Riven that ended up as transmute because we ran out Riven slot. Hell, DE already add random Riven on Acrithis shop too.

Edited October 2, 2023 by BroDutt

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

I will sign and agree to this one.

We have too many sources of Rivens as it is.

• Sorties
• Archon Hunts
• Steel Path
• Iron Wake

And Honestly, in my experience if I want a Riv, it usually for a weapon that no many people use or want. It is then dirt cheap.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

This would be nice. 

+1

[trst]

I disagree. Rivens are only plentiful to those who don't engage with the system as they're only located from daily/weekly activities and/or have limited stocks.

Meanwhile Clamps have limited uses outside of Acrithis' shop which itself is on a RNG based weekly stock system while the non-Riven resoures she sells are already more readily available from other locations. As well Clamps are rather trivial to amass from Duviri runs.

Having them thrown into Circuit just leaves them to be yet another resource that'll be amassed faster than it could be used. While Rivens at the very least are a tradable commodity allowing them to have value to anyone who's not opposed to trading them.

[wodanclay]

I would gladly take pathos clamps over rivens.

[zotobom]

7 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

But what good are Pathos Clamps?

for buying Acrithis's Arcanes? anyone who has been playing so long as to Forgo the Incarnon rewards is also at the point that they're done with the Arcanes too.

Rivens have the distinction of Existing Outside the Duviri Content Island; which is why they're a great choice for when that content has run its course.

Clamps are insanely good to have lol. Aside from Incarnon adapters and the Duviri melees which are one-time investments (unless you want duplicates from anything) - Arcrithis's shop has lots of good stuff. Not just Arcanes, also Rivens (lol), Arcane adapters, Forma and potato BPs

[Packetdancer]

Having a way to get Pathos Clamps other than "fight the orowyrm yet again" was raised as a suggestion back in the early Duviri/Circuit threads by many people—both those who love the Circuit (like me) and those who don't. My opinion there has not changed; a different way to get Pathos Clamps would be most appreciated.

I have basically all the Incarnon adapters, but not all of them are installed because I lack the Pathos Clamps necessary.

[SneakyErvin]

It wouldnt be worth it. By the time you are done with the incarnon farming you will likely have an abundance of clamps aswell since you already need materials from Duviri to apply the incarnons to gear, so have most likely also killed the Wyrm a gazillion times and gotten clamps. Not saying rivens are a good options, just that clamps are equally as bad or worse.

There are just much more effective ways to get both clamps and arcanes currently.

What they should add to make it worthwhile for everyone is its own currency at T5 and T10 that allows us to buy rivens, arcanes, pre-built items like adapters, forma bundles, aura forma, reactors and catalysts, heck they could even offer an umbra forma BP that could cost us two tokens if need be.

[TheSteelMushroom]

4 hours ago, zotobom said:

Clamps are insanely good to have lol. Aside from Incarnon adapters and the Duviri melees which are one-time investments (unless you want duplicates from anything) - Arcrithis's shop has lots of good stuff. Not just Arcanes, also Rivens (lol), Arcane adapters, Forma and potato BPs

Though the adapters you get plenty and more easily from Teshin, Arcanes are more reliably farmed from the Duviri portals and you can get plenty of already crafted potatoes from Nightwave or events. And the Forma blueprints you get plenty and more sparingly from relics which take too long to craft each one and this is if plague star never returns. Unless they improve Acrithis's shop then I'd rather the Circuit be another source of Rivens to brute force the RNG for the weapons I'm looking for.

Edited October 2, 2023 by TheSteelMushroom

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

I don't see the use for more pathos clamps unless they add alot to Acrithis shop.

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It wouldnt be worth it. By the time you are done with the incarnon farming you will likely have an abundance of clamps aswell since you already need materials from Duviri to apply the incarnons to gear, so have most likely also killed the Wyrm a gazillion times and gotten clamps. Not saying rivens are a good options, just that clamps are equally as bad or worse.

There are just much more effective ways to get both clamps and arcanes currently.

What they should add to make it worthwhile for everyone is its own currency at T5 and T10 that allows us to buy rivens, arcanes, pre-built items like adapters, forma bundles, aura forma, reactors and catalysts, heck they could even offer an umbra forma BP that could cost us two tokens if need be.

This is a great idea.

[SneakyErvin]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I don't see the use for more pathos clamps unless they add alot to Acrithis shop.

That is how I see it aswell. Even at that point I wouldnt set my foot in Circuit to get those items from the shop since I could do it several times faster by just doing Lone Story SP. I'd get 15 clamps for 30-ish minutes of work at that point while Circuit would take hours.

[TeaHands]

No need for ultimatums, DE should let us choose from 2 Incarnon Adaptors, 2 Rivens, or 2 resource bundles of Pathos Clamps. That way we can mix and match more rewards

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, TeaHands said:

No need for ultimatums, DE should let us choose from 2 Incarnon Adaptors, 2 Rivens, or 2 resource bundles of Pathos Clamps. That way we can mix and match more rewards

Or just circuit tokens and a new vendor page on acrithis that offers pathos clamps, rivens and anything else that could be seen as evergreen.

[Void2258]

I personally agree. I won't bother to do the circuit for rivens; I already consider it a wasted rank if I get rivens on the track for my adapters. If I want them, I can get them more easily/incidentally while getting something else in plenty of other places.

[Skoomaseller]

agree esp bc we can find billions of them already 

[P0Pz]

Related to Rivens, core problem is the limited amount 1 can have in 1 "Riven Slot" from max 180, as many stated.

• Make "Stash" instances, for EACH typ of weapon. Melee, secondary,... each 180 slots. Problem solved "temporary".

 

Related to "Rewards", we should rethink away from WHAT IS offered and look at WHAT CAN be offered to make this "late game" content more worth playing...

I would suggest the following:

• Creature Unit card; enables to bind any weapon (melee/Bow) into a card, which can be placed into a creature, to act as amplifier to their "natural" dmg source. Also combine able with diff. creature Gear to add paths into Vit/ Agi/ Int or/and Str.

• Creature EVOlution shards; enables to unlock a creatures Evolution 1, 2 and 3 each at max Lvl. With each Evolution (doubling prev. stats), the lvl of a creature is reseted back to Lvl1. BEFORE going into next Evolution, a player can choose to "overbreed" a creature +10 Lvls, to gain access adding stats to the creature manualy, before going into next Evolution and gain at each +1 overbreed Lvls, 2 additional "skill-perks" to be used on Lvling up Creature skills. So if you do not overbreed, you will not be able to max out as many creature skills as if you would max Overbreed at every 3 possible access to it. 

• Creature "Soul Catalysts" (staging); Soul Catalysts are used to combine two "same" creatures of the same type into an enhanced version of the creature. Visualy changing in coloring to showcase increased power status.

This "staging" is done over 2 same max Lvl creatures, combined into a Stage 1. For a Stage 2 creature you need 2x same Stage 1 creatures.

Staging also unlocks creatures "specific" 1 new active  ability & 2 new passives reaching stage3. Also unlocks a slot each time staging a creature, to add ANY creatures sprits, even from other ones.

> Evo3 stage0 Hawkman but +25 overbreeding (left top corner, green number before name "German Tank")

> Evo 1 to 3, How stats could be, Role of creature:

> Other creature, other stats, other Role:

> Staging Ability, unique to each creature:

> Adding a not used (summoned) creature, into your Char/Frame, grants unique passive stats if skilled in creature passive-skilltree:

> Every creature, gets a Unity toggle buff as long summoned, unique to this creatureTyp (M.Atk = +150% Ability damage, owner & creature):

> Staging unlocks slots to add sprits, soul-artifacts & additional gear (Armor/Chassis & weapon (melee or bow)):

...and more than 100 different creatures please. Leaving away "Soul-Creatures" at this moment...

///

New stuff, long time grinding to get it all, buuuut rewarding in use of time & effort made.

And not only rewarding in the end! Durring the adventure, the way to the end, should be the most rewarding point here, step by step.

I also would like to see a real Dungeon for LateGame to grind/farm in, and need to group up or at least need for duo to take on "for ever fast respawning" mobs at maaany different locations, like here:

And huuuge walls high up. Big, medium small rooms with mobs spawning fast back perma. Patrols, in pathways (respawning) no real save spots,... excample how a LateGame party, with low lategame gear/items, farms in a not so deep in, smaller room, going later into a medium-small room:

...

I dun need another riven path, i realy do not need stuff we all already have... my take is, add new stuff, to WASTE time in playing the actual game, with guilds, more with others together than all solo...and fk rewarding.

No instant dungeon crap,

> Real time open Dungeon systems ALL player partys can go farm in at the same time.

> Guns could be hard reduced in power, by dungeon mobs beeing kinda immun to bullet/laser dmg, if not ability based.

> Guns could be transformed into a "Dungeon-Unit card" to amp. a melee weapon, placed into a dungeon slot on melee weapons!

> *Skill-Cards* drop in dungeons, for *any Frame ability* to inrease this *specific Frame skill by +1 Lvl up.* This skill-cards *can be combined with another same skill-card!* Making a skillcard +1 into a +2 skill card. To make a +3 skill-card, player needs 2x +2 skill-cards of the same card. Reaching a +3 Skill-card, combining 2x +3 skill cards could have a *fail-rate* of 40%, if failed, *one of the two +3 cards breaks and is gone.* So getting a max *+10 skill-card* will be seen as smt rar and realy powerful...worth the grind...if you could imagine to just have a Frame with each of its abilities increased by +6,+3,+5,+4,... 1st skills can with that reach higher potential making them on some frames insanly powerful, same for all the other abilities esp. "ultis".

Realy worth the grind!

> Btw.: the shown pictures/videos skills/items/etc. are from a game which is 1 month older than WoW.

/// Edit ///

I also want to add this suggestion into it:

> Neuroptics, Chassis & Systems lvl2, 3, 4 and 5, "could drop" in those dungeons, for each specific frame, similar to "skill-cards".

>> You would need 2x Lvl2 Systems to combine them into a Lvl3 System etc. but with a higher "fail-rate" than skill-cards, or the same. Those parts would increase the base-stats of each frame, and with reaching Lvl3, unlocking a "frame skill-tree". This or better those skill.trees, use up perks, which you gain per LvL up. So you would not be able to skillUp ALL passive skills, but able with further LvLing up, gaining more perk-points to invest in. Each Lvl+ could add 23 perk-points and different passives need either 3 or 10 points to max them out. Smt in this direction. We could say to this Frame-Mastery-Tree, with 3 seperated parts, each with its own skill-tree.

>>> Additional with reaching Lvl3,4 and 5 of a part, unlocking 1,3 & 5 slots for Mastery-Stones/Shards with diverent stats, or able to place in Boss-cards/Mods...droped inside dungoen.

 

My 33 or smt takes to this ;)

Cheers

Edited October 2, 2023 by P0Pz

[Packetdancer]

3 hours ago, P0Pz said:

Related to Rivens, core problem is the limited amount 1 can have in 1 "Riven Slot" from max 180, as many stated.

• Make "Stash" instances, for EACH typ of weapon. Melee, secondary,... each 180 slots. Problem solved "temporary".

As I noted in another recent thread, the riven limit is almost certainly not for game balance reasons but for game resource reasons.

Normal mods are just a mod ID and a rank; every "Primed Shred" or "Galvanized Chamber" mod has the same polarity, drain, and stats. Riven mods have to store all their data individually. The storage there adds up, but also there's considerably more overhead in querying your inventory when you have a lot of rivens (because the server is -- and should be -- authoritative for such things).

As nice as it might be to have more riven slots to have rivens in, the more you add the longer it takes to synchronize your inventory (and the more server-side storage it takes up). Giving everyone three times as much riven storage abruptly would probably have some Not Great performance implications overall.

 

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It wouldnt be worth it. By the time you are done with the incarnon farming you will likely have an abundance of clamps aswell since you already need materials from Duviri to apply the incarnons to gear

Maybe, but I've had plenty of resources for installing the adapters but need to still kill the orowyrm another few times to get the clamps to install my last ones.

Anecdotal evidence aside, the ability to get clamps from the Circuit appeals to me not because I can't go kill the orowyrm multiple times -- that's simple enough -- but because I enjoy the Circuit and will already play it willingly, whereas I've gotten very tired of the orowyrm fight. And clamps are still useful even after you've installed all the adapters, since you can use them to buy arcanes or whatever else from Acrithis.

It just bothers me a little that clamps are used for so many things, but are only available from one place (the orowyrm fight) and in relatively low quantities; even the Steel Path variant of the fight will only give you 15 clamps, while adapters cost 20 to install. It's especially annoying since it's the "pity currency" for Duviri arcanes as well, plus there's already the RNG factor of "what does Acrithis have in the shop right now" to contend with if you want to pick up those last couple of arcanes to finish ranking something up.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I doubt DE will change it anytime soon. I mean DE could of just given us the Incarnon adapter without a crafting cost. But they choose to slap on a resource dump onto said rewards with those resources coming from a completely different game mode entirely. 

[P0Pz]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Packetdancer:

As I noted in another recent thread, the riven limit is almost certainly not for game balance reasons but for game resource reasons.

Normal mods are just a mod ID and a rank; every "Primed Shred" or "Galvanized Chamber" mod has the same polarity, drain, and stats. Riven mods have to store all their data individually. The storage there adds up, but also there's considerably more overhead in querying your inventory when you have a lot of rivens (because the server is -- and should be -- authoritative for such things).

As nice as it might be to have more riven slots to have rivens in, the more you add the longer it takes to synchronize your inventory (and the more server-side storage it takes up). Giving everyone three times as much riven storage abruptly would probably have some Not Great performance implications overall.

...

Hi. Well,... it might be,... but what THIS RNG stats rivens do, is realy nothing different to what some specific games did years ago, in addition, there are waaay more random stats in different sections on top, able to be hold in a "unlimited amount" in your inventory (until changed to 1k items on char but unlimited in your storage).

I will agree that it DID made back then "Town-Lag" when meeting up maaaaaany other players even with a top-gen PC for that time,...

today is totaly different for the exact same "Problem". PCs can ezy handle that. And those "loading stats" where not only RNG-Stats, way more items they carried with them and their stats, items & Creatures stats and items,... This "lags" happend only in towns with many players or in dungeons when someone "trained" you with mass-mobs aggro pulled and run into your Party haha this sh!t happend yes and laged a bit suddenly ;) but this is a lazy excuse to not do it or do it better/right.

Let me show you smt fast:

> Besides yellow, every colored number & text is a random one.

How many different "rivens" is this 1 Char holding at "the same time" active?!

Riven have not even "set stats" + "4 RNG mods" including RNG side effects for EVERY "user char AND creature gears" ofc including for necklaces, rings, earings, cloaks, masks,...

Blue: Set stats, same weapons/gears can have different set-name-stats as well rng.

Purple: straight every stats point random.

Look at every gear list bottom, slots, to place in mods (stones/shards/... (hard-item with stats/passive o. active abilities)).

Also some "mods" with rng stats/sideeffects... *reroll'able*

> At the +23 Executioner Lvl10 mid/bottom weapon/gear item,...

you see at the very end,... a purple (bounded item) mod (shard) in the last socket adding

+453 phys dmg & +371 Ability.Damage

> Those numbers SOLO are RNG and reroll'able to get a better or worse output. & in addition, this specific "shard" also adds a changing visual effect

> And this are just a few ones in the list here,... those are the 1st ones they were introduced into the game,... all RNG all reRoll'able & with effects to them. Also able to combine them with the weapon and a "unit-card" into any creature... and you have mullti creatures and weapons/gear on them all...

 

Also...

To Awake an item you will need a Awakening Stone

Click the Dismantle icon in the inventory window. Place an empty pet card in the dismantle window and click "Dismantle All" to obtain awakening stones. Click the Enhancement icon in the inventory window. Place a dormant weapon in the primary slot and an awakening stone in another slot. Click "Enhance" to apply random adjustments.

If the random adjustments are not to your liking, you can return the weapon to its original dormant state an reroll.

> I dun think they could years ago (1month before WoW) do this, with some kind of magic trick.

I want to say, EVEN if it is true,... we can say with this then,... smt went wrong in doing so i guess. And if it would be somehow right done,.. they CAN do generate those.

In addition,... Warframe has LESS mods as this game has SKILL-CARDS,.. stacked on each other and collected in masses with each also own ID. Every single char-skill has its own skill-card. Combine'able with the same skill card to make from a +1 a +2 card. Up to +10.... and you need a loooot to compensate for all the possible fails, (equal broken +cards) you fail to combine from +3 on... so you collect...maaany of them.

> Item-sink was invented here ;)

 

Warframe is WELL able to do so. Believe me. Either they fk'ed up smw or they just do not want to.

Edited October 2, 2023 by P0Pz

[Packetdancer]

10 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

Hi. Well,... it might be,... but what THIS RNG stats rivens do, is realy nothing different to what some specific games did years ago, in addition, there are waaay more random stats in different sections on top, able to be hold in a "unlimited amount" in your inventory (until changed to 1k items on char but unlimited in your storage).

I have no way of knowing what your other game uses behind the scenes; having never played it -- much less dug into the architecture of it -- it would all be guesswork, and even there I don't have the necessary details to make proper guesswork. Like, you say every skill has its own card and you can combine them with a another card to make +1, or +2, or so on... does that mean I can have entirely different results on a skill? Like my "Blazing Strike" skill will do 48 base damage, while your same "Blazing Strike" skill will do 0 damage but heal you for a base value of 37? Or are there constraints on things? Does it have separate asset servers, or is all logic server-side and so you don't need the data to make calculations?

It could well be comparing apples to oranges under the hood. Heck, if the thing has a fully dedicated server architecture, rather than peer-to-peer client and with periodic check-ins with an authoritative asset server, it might be comparing apples to aardvarks. Warframe and WoW work very differently in terms of networking, I guarantee you.

But more to the point, if that is a fundamental part of your other game... it was probably designed specifically to facilitate such things. Warframe was not; rivens were a later addition, and this ten-year-old engine and network architecture did not have their entire base design focused around the idea of randomized stats. In fact, I'd argue that Warframe is based very much around stats you can predict/calculate.

Could a different engine/architecture handle this better? Of course! This one's been around for ten years, and there's been a whole pile of stuff layered on top of it that was not a thing they necessarily planned for at the start; I suspect some of it has 2x4's underneath it propping it up. Changing that, though...?

It's worth keeping in mind the fact that the original Destiny had a networking architecture not all that dissimilar from Warframe's -- down to host migration headaches -- and supposedly the fact that it was literally easier to write an entire new game than try to update the architecture of the existing one was a factor in why Destiny 2 exists.

Think of it like renovating a house. If you're just changing the interior layout or whatnot, you can do it easily enough. If you are trying to change the actual footprint of the house, though, you probably need to make changes to the foundation. And it's not easy to lift up a house, redo the foundation, then remodel the house and put it back down on the foundation; it's probably far more simple in many cases to bulldoze the house, do a new foundation, and start fresh.

In this analogy, rivens are an extra sunroom built off the edge of the house that was not in the original blueprint, and there's no foundation underneath them. This means the sunroom is, y'know, maybe not the most suited for load-bearing, and you probably don't want to stick a grand piano or a giant concrete statue in there.

Similarly, I would bet that if someone looked at your other game and said "hey, this thing needs to support full VR with motion control and raytracing", the engine would not be well-suited to it. Could someone make an engine that would be? Absolutely! Is it likely super simple to just add that to the other game's engine, just because someone could make an entirely different engine that can do it? Probably not!

If DE were going to throw out the game entirely and start fresh with a Warframe 2, could they solve the riven efficiency problem? Almost certainly, if the game was designed from ground zero to support that! Can they do so with the current architecture in a straightforward manner? My guess (from what I have observed of the current architecture) would be a fairly resounding "no."