Latron Riven

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Curious if this is good. It's actually unrolled. 

[rapt0rman]

Kinda ridiculous, but possibly awesome. I doubt you'd have any problems with raw damage, even with removing 80% of Latron Prime's physical damage, It wouldn't really work for a non-elemental slash build unless you like 50% impact procs, but for an ele build  (and Incarnon) your elemental procs would be through the roof.

That said, I'm happy to say that in general I'm more hesitant to remove puncture from weapons using rivens, now that the procs have some damage utility.

Edited October 14, 2023 by rapt0rman

[Tiltskillet]

It's kind of painful that two of Incarnon Latron's best evolutions involve puncture procs, but it's still a really good riven.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

the negative Puncture is problematic for Incarnon Latron

since one of its best features is the ability to Permanently strip armor (up to 100%) via Puncture procs. (kinda like the old corrosive meta)

 

With the other stats being so good, it hurts to pass on it, but I probably would try to roll something else.

-the Incarnon Puncture Gimmick is what makes it interesting; if I'm not going to be able to use it then I wouldn't even bother....

 

and look at it this way, Incarnon Latron is so good that it works Fine without a riven, so its not worth using a riven that interferes with that mode.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

I don't have Latron yet but I don't think I can pass on +150 CD +215 CC and +60 grinD 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Personally, the way I would react to this Riven, just off initial gut reaction, without having done testing, maths, and looking at some numbers and so on, would be that it was cruelly bittersweet. Fantastic stats, especially for many weapon types, but on Latron, Latron Prime and presumably the Incarnon version? I would feel a bit mixed. Latron Incarnon is one weapon where Puncture can be really beneficial, for one of its evolutions, not to mention Puncture not being as weak as it used to be, and also the issue with Rivens negative involving one of its main damage types (as opposed to a weaker or non existent type). Hence why I would feel bittersweet. That being said, the Incarnon version is very powerful and in the running for a top tier meta weapon, like arguably top 3 in the eyes of many, so none of those negatives, or drawbacks may matter at all, the weapon will still probably destroy roomfuls of Steel Path enemies. 

So in that sense... does it really matter? Especially if you like red crits? Thing is, though, Latron Incarnon is also that powerful and going to give you similar results even without the Riven, just as far as killing roomfuls of Steel Path enemies... 

All that being said, I think many undervalue and overlook that having a decent or good Riven can be really nice, even if its not meta or perfect. Aka a "Good for now" Riven, where if you are swimming in Kuva, and feeling a bit bored, you can roll it, but be rest assured that even if you don't roll something better, you have something solid. Or, if you don't have that much Kuva, you don't have to reroll if you don't want to, it will be "good enough" generally. 

Personally, I got greedy with my Latron Riven. I can't check its stats right now, but I prioritised Multishot and Crit Damage. Had a good harmless negative too. Honestly though, whilst numbers are bigger, didn't really notice that much of a difference. Fun gun, but its not my favourite. That being said, I was pretty hyped after unveiling a Latron Riven post Incarnon treatment, as I did have one ages ago, but sold it/dissolved as the weapon use to be... well not as good, so I harboured a bit of regret for doing that. Getting a better one since, was just nice. 

TL;DR if you like the Riven, enjoy it! Can always reroll if you get bored or have excess Kuva. Not like you will lost the current roll. 

[Traumtulpe]

The Riven is perfect for using a Hunter Munitions non-armor strip Latron. There's an evolution that also ups the critical stats significantly that's competing with the armor strip one, and it's arguably better.

Enjoy that awesome Riven.

[Stormandreas]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Curious if this is good. It's actually unrolled. 

This is amazing... and also just absolutely terrible at the same time...

CC/CD is PERFECT for a latron riven, and Faction damage is always good. The biggest issue here, is the negative puncture. MASSIVE no-no on the Latron. It's main damage is Puncture, and it's Incarnon REQUIRES puncture procs to be the best it can be.

Unforunately, due to the negative, it's an F tier T.T

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Man the answers here are literally 180 degrees from each other. Crazy. And I can agree with both sides.

Yeah i wish it had a negative like -20% damage to infested or something else but for a guy with 60p and no latron yet I think it's beneficial to keep at the moment. 

Additionally im not exactly 100% sold on incarnons. I don't like most if the incarnons i have so far. Too long to proc and not strong enough in reg mode.

when one doesn't have the incarnon proc it's harder at higher levels to gain while not dying. This morning in a void Ani survival i was at 60mins and with my volt prime it was starting to get laborious with incarnon Torid. Last Gasp was getting annoying. Granted only one forma and an open mod slot even, but boosting the regular performance of the gun is advantageous to me.

The Torid is fairly quick to achieve incarnon form. Not sure about the Latron as i don't have it. But 215 CC gets me at nearly base 40% CC which will be easy to hit +100% and Im sure regular mode will be a beast creating a more consistent experience between the two modes. This might also allow me to activate incarnon for a slight edge when a boss or acolytes appear. Im terrible at modding hence the question but these are my thoughts, a balancing out QoL riven.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Ok so i just checked the Latron prime.

Incarnon mode is 100% impact with aoe split 50/50 between puncture and heat. 

So 75% of incarnon mode damage would be boosted by this riven by 215 chance and 150% damage. Just damage alone of +150% would be nearly 5x the 33% loss 

Now in regular mode I'm losing 80% of my damage and only gaining back +150% which puts it at 50% the original output 20% x 1.5 = 30% so 20+30=50% or 45dps

[(XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi]

Latron incarnon is one of those that's turned this weapon from my most hated weapon to now one of my favourites. Remember getting the incarnon not only let's you transform it but add further boosts to the weapon, such as more damage and extra crit.

Back to the riven it's a real bittersweet one. It's great because you've gained a lot more crit chance and crit damage but lost so much damage in losing that puncture so not sure you're really gaining that much out of it. Red numbers are pretty though! I would re roll personally.

Just to make you feel better I remember I rolled a cc, cd, ms riven for the Despair many moon again. The problem? It had a negative of flight speed. I couldn't even reach the cameras on a spy with it! That's Warframe! Sometimes you just have to such it up, have a chuckle, then move on.

Wish you luck mate!

Edited October 14, 2023 by (XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Some dude is selling a riven with similar stats to mine for 2800p

[rapt0rman]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Ok so i just checked the Latron prime.

Incarnon mode is 100% impact with aoe split 50/50 between puncture and heat. 

So 75% of incarnon mode damage would be boosted by this riven by 215 chance and 150% damage. Just damage alone of +150% would be nearly 5x the 33% loss 

Now in regular mode I'm losing 80% of my damage and only gaining back +150% which puts it at 50% the original output 20% x 1.5 = 30% so 20+30=50% or 45dps

Note that you're only losing 80% your physical damage, any elements you add will still be calculated based on your actual base damage stat.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

2 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

elements you add will still be calculated based on your actual base damage stat

So I understand, Latron has 9/72/9 = 90 dps

So  PCR +165% cold mod would add 149 dps of cold?

90x1.65 = 149

Again I don't have the weapon or I'd just add a heat mod to check.

[rapt0rman]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

So I understand, Latron has 9/72/9 = 90 dps

So  PCR +165% cold mod would add 149 dps of cold?

90x1.65 = 149

Again I don't have the weapon or I'd just add a heat mod to check.

Yep, basically adding or removing physical damage only affects that stat, everything from elemental mods to slash proc damage ignores the changes. It's why you can't increase slash proc damage by increasing slash, but inversely it's also why Hunter Munitions still functions even if the weapon no slash at all.

The main goal is more to manipulate the actual probability of procs

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

So Latron prime base boosted CC with the riven with +215%:

normal 22% = 69%

incarnon 44% = 139%

With only the riven. With critical delay it would be +100/+200 for each mode

CD x2.8/x3.4 with +150% would be x7.0/x8.5

Unrolled...and riven disposition is 1.3x so how does that work? Is that 1.3 x 22%/44% or 1.3 x 69%/139% ? I assume the former.

Sorry for all the Qs Im still very much a noob when it comes to rivens

[rapt0rman]

24 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

So Latron prime base boosted CC with the riven with +215%:

normal 22% = 69%

incarnon 44% = 139%

With only the riven. With critical delay it would be +100/+200 for each mode

CD x2.8/x3.4 with +150% would be x7.0/x8.5

Unrolled...and riven disposition is 1.3x so how does that work? Is that 1.3 x 22%/44% or 1.3 x 69%/139% ? I assume the former.

Sorry for all the Qs Im still very much a noob when it comes to rivens

The stats on the riven itself will change when you put it on the Prime. The stats you're seeing on the riven at the moment are for the regular Latron which has a disposition of 1.4x, since the prime is 1.3x they'll be a bit less.

Edited October 14, 2023 by rapt0rman

[(NSW)Greybones]

Looks kind of boring

[Stormandreas]

On 2023-10-14 at 2:40 PM, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Ok so i just checked the Latron prime.

Incarnon mode is 100% impact with aoe split 50/50 between puncture and heat. 

So 75% of incarnon mode damage would be boosted by this riven by 215 chance and 150% damage. Just damage alone of +150% would be nearly 5x the 33% loss 

Now in regular mode I'm losing 80% of my damage and only gaining back +150% which puts it at 50% the original output 20% x 1.5 = 30% so 20+30=50% or 45dps

The latron Prime in Incarnon is Puncture with its AOE, not impact. Impact is only on the direct hit. You WANT to be doing puncture, as it's 2 best Evolutions, Evo 2 - Riddled Target - Puncture status gives +25% multishot for 8s, up to 4x, and Evo 4 - Flensing Spikes - Remove 20% of enemy armour per Puncture Status, both REQUIRE puncture procs, which the AOE 100% does do.

This is why that Riven is sadly F tier, maaaaaaybe D tier, despite the other bonuses. D tier only if you have 0 intention of using the Puncture evolutions, however, the only other decent one is Evo 4 - Critical Parallel - Increase CC by 24% and CD by 0.2x, which is a far cry from completely stripping enemy armour with a gun alone.

I would absolutely keep re-rolling this riven, as losing out on the main thing that makes the Latron Incarnon the best gun in the entire game, is a massive price to pay.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Stormandreas

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

The latron Prime in Incarnon is Puncture with its AOE, not impact

Reread my quote. I said AoE is 50/50 split heat/puncture. Impact is the initial hit. 

[L3512]

On 2023-10-14 at 11:40 PM, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

So 75% of incarnon mode damage would be boosted by this riven by 215 chance and 150% damage. Just damage alone of +150% would be nearly 5x the 33% loss 

Now in regular mode I'm losing 80% of my damage and only gaining back +150% which puts it at 50% the original output 20% x 1.5 = 30% so 20+30=50% or 45dps

That is really not how damage works like at all, you can not compare critical damage and base damage as if they are equal.

[Stormandreas]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Reread my quote. I said AoE is 50/50 split heat/puncture. Impact is the initial hit. 

I'll admit I did miss that, and my point still stands.

Removing the puncture removes the ability to use the 2 best evolutions on the Latron that make it the best gun in the game.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

I'll admit I did miss that, and my point still stands.

Removing the puncture removes the ability to use the 2 best evolutions on the Latron that make it the best gun in the game.

I understand your point and how  the negative is maddening in taking away the most noteworthy potential of the weapon.  Saying the riven is F tier is flat out wrong though, unless 'F' just stands for 'Frustrating'. :P

It'll still be a great weapon with that riven. If I loved Incarnon  Latron I might make two: one for this riven and one armor strip build.

No chance  I would reroll, though I very well might sell it and use some of the plat to buy a fresh one to roll.

[Traumtulpe]

Dude, don't listen to that nonsense. Just don't use the armor strip evolution, put Hunter Munitions on the Latron, and that's a god Riven. The -Puncture will actually *increase* your damage because it'll make you proc more Heat.

Frankly the armor removal is a nice gimmick, but HM with "Critical Parallel" is straight up better.

 

[L3512]

10 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Dude, don't listen to that nonsense. Just don't use the armor strip evolution, put Hunter Munitions on the Latron, and that's a god Riven. The -Puncture will actually *increase* your damage because it'll make you proc more Heat.

Frankly the armor removal is a nice gimmick, but HM with "Critical Parallel" is straight up better.

 

The flaw in your argument is in fact the armour stripping.

-Puncture will not increase damage due to more heat procs because the enemy will still be armoured, the heat procs will be doing little.

Hunter munitions works because slash procs bypasses armour to deal damage direct to health, slash procs are also not a 1:1 conversion of damage either.

The best thing about Hunter Munitions is it does not care about damage type weighting to cause slash procs, hence -Puncture does nothing there and we lose 100% multishot from the first Incarnon perk. So instead of using HM we can simply armour strip to deal 100% of our damage straight to health.

You could use the Riven in conjunction with critical delay for 220% CC however Latron is fairly slot starved and there are better options to increase damage. Primed bane of grinner would stay even with the riven but when using against any other faction all we have over a normal mod is no puncture and the subsequent lose of 100% multishot and 130% odd extra CD.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

Puncture will not increase damage due to more heat procs because the enemy will still be armoured, the heat procs will be doing little.

Hunter munitions works because slash procs bypasses armour to deal damage direct to health, slash procs are also not a 1:1 conversion of damage either.

No. No to everything.

If an enemy is armored Slash procs just kill it - health values of armored enemies don't scale much. Both Heat procs *and* Puncture damage are only relevant against unarmored enemies, and there Heat is better period.