Congratulations, DE. Hydroid is no longer worst frame in 2023 Warframe design

[Jarriaga]

Winner by no-contest:

1) Her passive is simply an Exilus mod.

2) Her 1 is nothing more than a Spiderman meme, and an extremely-specific meme that you can't even use in most tilesets if you want to be Spidercat.

- This is on top of being a single-target ability that gets automatically replaced as a traversal tool by Void Sling for free by simply advancing through the game. 

3) Her 2 only scales her base armor on top of having an extremely slow casting speed, low duration and poor scaling for the high energy cost. It's a neat attack speed buff but her "protection" via armor only applies to herself unless her mates happen to have high base armor to scale of.

- On the topic of scaling: A full Umbral Valkyr (Prime) at 2047 armor (87.22% damage reduction) can get a 400% power strength bonus and would barely hit 92% damage reduction despite the mod investment. This is absurd.

4) Her 3 is only functional with an Augment.

5) Her 4 lacks the stats to compete with regular melee weapons on top of being castrated by her stance.

6) She has no synergies. In fact, she is actively anti-synergy: Activating Hysteria invalidates the armor buff from Warcry by virtue of making you immortal.

Inaros at least has a synergistic design with his abilities and feed-off one another. 

 

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Her passive is simply an Exilus mod.

To be fair, it's more like 1.3 exilus mods. :P 

[TeaHands]

You wouldn't be trash talking her if she were wearing her anchor arms.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

I was initially sceptical about Hydroid's rework during the preview. But after actually getting to play with his new kit he has definitely rocketed up near the top of the list. I never should have doubted Pablo. 

I really hope Valkyr gets the same treatment soon. She is currently gathering dust in my arsenal just like Hydroid was. It'll be nice to have another decent frame to play with.

[.Fire_Fly.]

winner for worst warframe in my honest opinion goes to Oberon he needs a rework asap he so far behind the times its painful.

[jesusdh]

You DARE mock my Valkyr?! I agree that she needs some tweaks, but worst? No, that would be Inaros.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Bruh

21 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Inaros at least has a synergistic design with his abilities and feed-off one another.

No.

As for Valkyr:

1 outdated she needs something else here and should become a helminth meme ability

2 If they really want to buff this they could make the augment base kit and not available to the helminth version.

3 even with the augment I think this is bad, budget radial blind with terrible range

4 The main issue I have with her 4 is the same as other exalted, just let them use all mods.

If they rework her I really want her to use health for casting abilities instead of energy, go full on the berserker theme.

Edited October 25, 2023 by (XBOX)C11H22O11

[Mazifet]

18 minutes ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

winner for worst warframe in my honest opinion goes to Oberon he needs a rework asap he so far behind the times its painful.

Th? Oberon may not be meta but he can heal, cheat death, armor strip, tank, crowd control and do extra damage. In no way is he the worst frame.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

Caliban exists, and Valkyr is far from terrible.

[Aruquae]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

Caliban exists, and Valkyr is far from terrible.

Caliban is fine, just boring

His passive just needs a tweak (and his first) else is good

8 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

Th? Oberon may not be meta but he can heal, cheat death, armor strip, tank, crowd control and do extra damage. In no way is he the worst frame.

Yea I have no clue what op was referring to

He’s a wonderful Jack of all trades. He can even nuke, which is… odd to say the least.

[Jarriaga]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Bruh

No.

 

Hey! I'm not saying Inaros is functional, but you can at least tell his abilities were designed to feed off one another and that there's a design theme for him. There's even a specific synergy triggered when an enemy dies by Devour while affected by Sandstorm.

In contrast: Valkyr invalidates her 2's defense buff when her 4 is active. I can't think of another frame that does this.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Jarriaga

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Caliban is fine, just boring

His passive just needs a tweak (and his first) else is good

Caliban's not as bad as game chat makes him out to be.  And better with the shield rework.  But, saying he's good except for just needing a tweak to his passive and 1 is setting aside a lot of dumber than average crap in his kit.

[Jarriaga]

56 minutes ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

winner for worst warframe in my honest opinion goes to Oberon he needs a rework asap he so far behind the times its painful.

I don't think Oberon is worse-designed than Valkyr. He has synergies between 3 of his abilities and works as a jack of all trades. He doesn't excel at anything at once but his abilities don't contradict one another (Contrary to Valkyr).

Edited October 25, 2023 by Jarriaga

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

winner for worst warframe in my honest opinion goes to Oberon he needs a rework asap he so far behind the times its painful.

[Aruquae]

10 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Caliban's not as bad as game chat makes him out to be.  And better with the shield rework.  But, saying he's good except for just needing a tweak to his passive and 1 is setting aside a lot of dumber than average crap in his kit.

You’re right, he’s not bad. Just, as I said, boring (at least to me). His third ability is really solid with shield gating and agro drawing. If only they could actually do damage though. His fourth is a really good armor strip, but it’s simply too expensive. I put an in depth explanation about his abilities in a previous thread. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

As long as Nyx stays untouched, I will not leave my hill claiming she is the worst frame. Even old hydroid at least had reliable cc

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

To be fair, it's more like 1.3 exilus mods. :P 

So Kavat's Grace and what's the other 0.3 missing?

Edited October 25, 2023 by Jarriaga

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

So Kavat's Grace and what's the other 0.3 missing?

Handspring

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

5) Her 4 lacks the stats to compete with regular melee weapons on top of being castrated by her stance.

Her slide attack would strongly disagree. My fiance got back into the game recently after having not played in many years, meaning I'm far better developed than him and with far superior weapons and mods. He can still outdamage me with slide attacks.

No, the problem with her 4 is that it's still suffering from the nerf DE made to her energy cost years ago, where it gets stronger the longer you're using it. We now have more options for unkillable frames (most notably Revenant) that don't spend nearly as much energy to be invulnerable. There's no reason Valkyr needs this nerf anymore.

[Numerounius]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

As long as Nyx stays untouched, I will not leave my hill claiming she is the worst frame. Even old hydroid at least had reliable cc

. . . But she did get touched. And having perma invuln is really helpful at times.

1 hour ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

winner for worst warframe in my honest opinion goes to Oberon he needs a rework asap he so far behind the times its painful.

Oberon still has some uses. But yeah his kit could use some work. Mainly the healing aspect, it can't even outheal an lure vs an eidolon scream why??? At least Trin can prevent it from getting culled from scream.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Bruh

Yeah Inaros is always in contention for this topic. While he can face tank a lot of content Warframe has to throw at him that is all I really know him for though.

2 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Winner by no-contest:

Eh, isn't she at least a option for melee builds though? Haven't played her in a while. The last I remember is how often she died when trying to level her up in steel path because she has no meat on her bones.

 

I am going to say Limbo for this topic. Only because of his Passive and of one thing it specifically enables, or disables in this context. Yes, he has some good stuff going for him and excels at many gamemodes. I'd say he is the worst because it seems like he was intentionally designed to not be used in certain content, namely Void Flood and Mirror Defense. In order to get the objective you need to use movement to get to it, using said movement on Limbo means going into rift due to passive, being in rift means you can't get the objective. The gamemode design clashes with the design of the frame. And all he needs is an augment to disable passive and I'd say he is fixed just like Zephyr and Nezha. At least with other frames you can use it to tackle content as a mostly vanilla frame without using abilities except for one frame and for that reason Limbo is the worst designed frame in my opinion.

[KitMeHarder]

Design-wise I'll give it to you, Valkyr has a lot of useless parts in her kit. But meta-wise? Not even close. She has some of the strongest defensive and offensive capabilities in the game. I can not believe how large the portion of the community that doesn't understand her is.

On the flipside, meta-wise and in terms of how replaceable they are, Caliban and (more so) Nyx are the worst and least useful frames in the game.

 

IMO strength and individuality are more important than a cohesive design. A frame can have synergistic abilities all they want, but it's pointless if there's no objective reason to use them.

Edited October 25, 2023 by KitMeHarder

[trst]

Naw I'd say Loki needs a rework more than anyone now.

Valkyr remains relevant just for having a melee buff which is probably even better now with auto melee making high attack speed more usable. Plus even if Hysteria falls behind other Exalteds it's still a free heal/panic button.

Meanwhile Loki has one functional ability with Invisibility also his passive is an even less useful Exilus mod than Valkyr's. Which even then isn't all that useful when Ash, Octavia, and Ivara either have better invisibilities and/or the rest of their kits are considerably better than Loki's.

And as for Inaros who always gets mentioned he doesn't really need one for how popular he is despite having no abilities. Yeah it'd be nice for him to actually have a kit but lacking one isn't hurting him at all.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

As long as Nyx stays untouched, I will not leave my hill claiming she is the worst frame. Even old hydroid at least had reliable cc

Bruh if her 4 had capped energy she would be top tier.

Yes she doesn't excel in damage but that's because she's themed around mind bending, and even then she has some armor stripping potential..

She's still decent (and honestly would only need touch-ups to her 2 and 4 at worst). The reason why she looks bad is because every frame to come out has had cc, damage, weapon buffs, and more in a single kit with no augments.

[3mptylord]

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Design-wise I'll give it to you, Valkyr has a lot of useless parts in her kit. But meta-wise? Not even close.

Agreed. This is the central conflict of interest in these discussions - character fantasy versus gameplay function. 

If I were asked who I want to see reworked: my answers would probably be Loki, Valkyr, Nyx and Chroma. But I'm thinking of character fantasy. I'm thinking of how often people post suggestions for a Dragon Warframe and the always top-rated comment about Chroma crying. But in terms of who's at the bottom of the tier list? Caliban, Loki or Inaros, for me. If I were to predict who I think DE would choose? Probably Caliban because he's (a) new meaning less baggage/nostalgia and (b) he's obscure and a lot of players don't own him. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by 3mptylord

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 minutes ago, trst said:

 

And as for Inaros who always gets mentioned he doesn't really need one for how popular he is despite having no abilities. Yeah it'd be nice for him to actually have a kit but lacking one isn't hurting him at all.

Well yes but no. Inaros is perfectly usable, but Revenant, Nezha, Nidus, Grendel, and others (like invisibility frames {most notably Wisp}) who are just as good at not dying while also being way more powerful in terms of abilities. The only thing he has going is that he requires low build investment, but even Wukong can do that with defy and hunter adrenaline (or Wisp by just jumping).

However, I don't think I want to just see Inaros become another gun-buffing armor-stripping dps but with a big hp bar if the past few reworks have been anything to look at, especially considering, that's literally what Grendel is.