Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 6 minutos, Alguien dijo:

And even ignoring the plot and while I don't recall quest missions being hard in difficulty, I didn't do it with a half-leveled frame, weapons, and unleveled mods...

That is not the ''problem'' of the new ones, what happens is that many say that, quote ''The game is FULL of 100% pointless menial tasks''. They want the story to be simple without much going on.

It seems that for them playing the game's story is like bidding on a hard piece of sh*t.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
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[Geihlen]

Warframe is pay2skip as it is. Like...nearly everything you can spend real money on boils down to that or "pay2lookcool".

If I can onboard a friend in this game and not have to tell them, "play 100+ hours and THEN we can do the new content together" it's a win for the game, full stop.

It is optional. Based on the concept as presented it is buyable with plat and you can gift it. So farm up some mods, sell them, and buy the skip for your friend. Plat exists and will continue and someone, somewhere spent real money on it. Other games have done this (games you pay for every month) and have been better for it.

Edit: And just to be clear, I think the quests and all the content is great and folks should play it. But I think an option existing to skip is perfectly reasonable and has a ton of value to a certain subset of potential new players.

Edited October 27, 2023 by (NSW)Juraash
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[(XBOX)Varzin]

Having the ability to skip story content so new players can catch up with their friends is a great idea.

Making players pay for it is not.

 

To DE:

Imagine this, you just convinced your friend to pick up Warframe. The game being FREE-TO-PLAY is one of the main selling points. Now you're telling that friend that either they have to go through days of story content (plus whatever general leveling and grinding is needed in-between) in order to catch up with you...or they now have to effectively "buy" a game that they were expecting to be free.

Not to mention that this makes what is supposed to be a quality of life feature exclusive to only those who have the money to spend on it.

 

My Suggestion:

1. Add this as a free feature for all new players. If you click the "skip story" button (not literal), the game sets whatever flags need to be set on your account to catch you up with the most current content in terms of quest and feature unlocks. Players can always go back and re-play quests (NOTE: I think there are a few quests that are not re-playable, should update that so no one misses out).

2. Lets differentiate between quest rewards that are required for other content (Railjack, operator abilities, etc) and quest rewards that are effectively optional (warframes, weapons, etc). For the required rewards some (as was mentioned on stream) already exist in the market and have a plat price tag attached to them, for now we can just leave those as is to keep things simple. For other required rewards, like unlocking the operator, I would suggest adding a very short but mandatory tutorial to introduce the concept. Completing the tutorial unlocks the feature for further use. For optional rewards, leave them where they are currently, Cephalon Simaris's shop, any player that skipped the story who wants those things can go get them whenever they want. Anything that could be classified as an optional rewards that is not in Simaris's shop should be added to it.

3. For any player that clicks on the "skip story" button, display a pop-up explaining all this and asking "are you sure?". Make sure every player is informed about what they are skipping and what they need to do to get the things they are missing, ie the required and optional rewards.

 

As much as I want people to engage with Warframe's story I also think this is a much needed feature for the sake of the game's health moving forward. There should be as few barriers as possible to players enjoying this game with their friends. A dollar amount would be a barrier.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

2 minutes ago, Goldenrice said:

so what do you think about players who buy items to craft from other players instead of farming it themselves

As I have said before, some pay to rush or pay to buy is fine. They do need to keep the lights on.J It is there. It's annoying you can't que up a list of itemsl ike 'ok forma built the machine autoloads the next one in the hopper' but that is 'OK I get it.' 

Thisi s 'here we can potentially make core parts of the game progression so tedious or have so olittle incentive to do anything about it that we have ordis dangling a button in your face to press to skip all of it.'

do I like that 'oh hey i can buy all of these things when grinding has artificial wait times with speedup options who'sp rices have never made sense?' No, but again thisi s at least comprehensible.

What rebecca put out into the ether is not. 

As for my problem with you? It is less the point you have here and more how you presented anyone objecting as stupid, or lesser than yourself. 

We need discussion, not insults. 

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

skipping story is also a great way to become lazy with it. but also, why skip the story? your literally saying "our story isnt worth your time". you should never have a story skip in a game like this, that ruins the game in every way. Warframe is a story based game and if you skip the story, your literally skipping like 90% of the game. 

[DrBorris]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

It's the continued destruction of merit and a slippery slide to $$$-for-everything.

Coming to this conclusion after hearing the very real concerns DE has with it shows me you are entirely unwilling to approach this conversation in good faith.

I feel kinda bad singling you out as most of the people here are doing the same thing. But the opinion "this is obviously wrong" is an actually stupid opinion. It isn't obvious, there are real issues with the way content is added to the game and how new players WILL bounce off if there is ANY wall. Dismissing that as "obviously" irrelevant means you are not willing to actually consider any other opinions.

I know this will also be taken in bad faith, but to try to clarify I'm not saying being against the skip is dumb. I'm not, I can think of may reasons as to why it is bad. I'm still coming to a conclusion myself.

[(PSN)PS_element]

Pay to SKIP is a Great Idea!

I'm All for it!

The New War feels like a completely Separate Chapter From Old War.

The Old War connects directly to the star chart; the stalker, archwing, enemy factions, our interactions with the Lotus- it all ties in as a single unit. 

But the New War brings a TON of new content that affect the future updates as well as gameplay.  Railjack The Zaramin, The Archons, and what looks like post Abyss of Dagath update. 

Obviously difficulty will be a fluctuating variable for New players BUT.. If you allow the New War and Beyond to be skipped, the new players will be able to jump on what everyone else is doing (like duviri). The Second Dream, the Old War, all that content uses the Operator as a child to tell a story. When the Drifter comes along, you have an entirely new set of content. 

 

I think its also important to look at where players old, new or returning stand in relation to how we all play together.  For example, New and returning players will likely be grinding for forma, Orokin cells, credits and Resources. But Rivens and Kuva are part of the overlapping factor like new content. Whatever happens, keeping this existent overlap I believe will be extremely important to the community. 

As an example, every time new resources are needed, they are typically added in with new content. So players do not have much incentive to do anything else aside from grind for prime parts together or new resources. 

Does that imply well enough the point I am trying to make? And the reason why Allowing a Skip would also contribute to that needed Overlap? 

Thanks for NOT skimming through all these paragraphs. ha! 

-Element 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 minutos, (PSN)PS_element dijo:

The New War feels like a completely Separate Chapter From Old War.

Because it is... the ancient war was thousands of years before, besides, it is completely different. The ancient war was sentients vs orokin and the new war was an orokin+setients vs all.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(PSN)PS_element]

@CosoMalvadoNG I was referring to whats is needed for the new update mentioned in Devstream 174. Railjack, drifter, etc-. What they were saying players would be pushed to get through.

[Genitive]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

skipping story is also a great way to become lazy with it. but also, why skip the story? your literally saying "our story isnt worth your time". you should never have a story skip in a game like this, that ruins the game in every way. Warframe is a story based game and if you skip the story, your literally skipping like 90% of the game. 

Because there are people who are just not interested in the story. Look at Final Fantasy 14, a game where the story is a main selling point. Yet, there are plenty of people who are just interested in endgame raiding and don't want to spend months getting there. Story skips are for people like that. Unless you are a person who is bothered by mere existence of a skip, you can just ignore it.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 6 minutos, (PSN)PS_element dijo:

@CosoMalvadoNG I was referring to whats is needed for the new update mentioned in Devstream 174. Railjack, drifter, etc-. What they were saying players would be pushed to get through.

I know that it is logical that they give a skip to the new ones but the pay a amount of platinum I don't know if that is logical.
I understand why De is doing this and possibly that will increase the number of players but only in the short term, In the long run we will just have a bunch of noobs who have no idea about the game and is going to be quite chaotic.
 

Imagine someone with Mr 1 making SP relics. We will simply see SP runs with 4 people with barely any mods or weapons and maybe 1 carry suffering.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
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[Zimzala]

Seems like DE is just following industry trends as they always do, this option is available in other GaaS games.

I have yet to see an argument here as to how doing this negatively impacts any current players, beyond making some players with low emotional maturity angry because some other person got a thing in a way they don't like.

I get that many of the posters here seriously want to dictate how others play games, but they simply don't have that power.

Why are so many of you so worried about how other players acquire things?

As it is now, you have no idea if a person was 'carried' or bought everything you might have acquired through playing.

I have seen the whole "noobs won't know how to play" used ad nauseum in other games and in this thread, and it's a strawman like any other from players that think all other pixels must follow their way of playing, etc., do you want new players or not?

Some of ya'll be trippin', but that's par for the course, rabid gamers gotta attack those that give them their dopamine or they feel like they have been defeated.

Hilarious and sad.

Enjoy your pitchforks and torches! 

[Cerikus]

8 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Imagine someone with Mr 1 making SP relics. We will simply see SP runs with 4 people with barely any mods or weapons and maybe 1 carry suffering.  

This argument is not relevant, because there's currently plenty of low MR players playing SP runs that are getting carried.
Also I am pretty sure the skip would not include SP.

Also, also, the skip would have to include a warframe and weapons with good premade builds, which I think they would do.

  

2 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Seems like DE is just following industry trends as they always do, this option is available in other GaaS games.

I have yet to see an argument here as to how doing this negatively impacts any current players, beyond making some players with low emotional maturity angry because some other person got a thing in a way they don't like.

I get that many of the posters here seriously want to dictate how others play games, but they simply don't have that power.

Why are so many of you so worried about how other players acquire things?

As it is now, you have no idea if a person was 'carried' or bought everything you might have acquired through playing.

I have seen the whole "noobs won't know how to play" used ad nauseum in other games and in this thread, and it's a strawman like any other from players that think all other pixels must follow their way of playing, etc., do you want new players or not?

Some of ya'll be trippin', but that's par for the course, rabid gamers gotta attack those that give them their dopamine or they feel like they have been defeated.

Hilarious and sad.

Enjoy your pitchforks and torches! 

If you ignore emotional outburst and non-arguments, I think the only good counter argument (which I share) is that it would cost plat, which would change the onboarding taste of this game. Currently it is "Warframe is completely free, you can only pay to skip grind". With this change it would be "Newest content is locked behind paywall or a 200 hours grind". And that's not a good thing to have.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Cerikus

[Tiltskillet]

57 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Quote

'This isn't a greed thing'

Then why are you charging for it?

Did one of them say that?  I wasn't listening with my full attention, so might have missed it.

If so, I wish they'd realize most gamers are mature enough to understand something direct like "It is an opportunity to monetize; and it's a way to discourage people from just casually skipping this story we're so proud of without even thinking about it."

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Justo ahora, Cerikus dijo:

This argument is not relevant, because there's currently plenty of low MR players playing SP runs that are getting carried.
Also I am pretty sure the skip would not include SP.

Also, also, the skip would have to include a warframe and weapons with good premade builds, which I think they would do.

So it wouldn't just be dodging the story missions, It would be pay to win friend. If anything that would be even worse.

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

So it wouldn't just be dodging the story missions, It would be pay to win friend. If anything that would be even worse.

Yup, that's why I don't think pay to skip is a good idea. I would be for "allow to skip".

[Skolem]

the quests being the barrier for new players seems far-fetched. The great lore and fun quests are something I can actually use to get friends to try warframe and distract them until "the slot talk".

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

2 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Because there are people who are just not interested in the story. Look at Final Fantasy 14, a game where the story is a main selling point. Yet, there are plenty of people who are just interested in endgame raiding and don't want to spend months getting there. Story skips are for people like that. Unless you are a person who is bothered by mere existence of a skip, you can just ignore it.

i think your honestly missing a lot of the game by skipping the story, especially since it doesnt even seem like a cutscene skip, but your literally skipping whole questlines. but also, this is a great way to make things more grindy or just lazier in design, dont like it? just pay to skip.

by skipping, you will have 0 clue about anything in warframe, like you wont know anything about the man in the wall, who the Operator is, the story of you and teshin and the Kuva queens, Who the stalker is, the story of Excalibur umbra.

 

like skipping, there isnt even that much main story quest wise. the Current "end game" requires you to do every mission node in the solar system, not do story. (Steel Path)

if your saying Steelpath circuit, that still requires every node to be unlocked...

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So DE is worried about the latest content drops being too hard to get to for new players because they have to do all the old content first. Kinda like how just for example it takes awhile to get to the new war. 

Well in the latest dev stream theyre considering adding pay-to-catch-up. 

Holy mother of god please no.

 

Jesus christ. This is the worst idea ive ever seen. I havent always agreed with DE and that might sound like hyperbole but it is literally the cringiest idea ive ever seen. 

The chat immediately was like please no. 

I really hope this is one of those things where they have an idea and the community is like please no and they *listen*.

 

A better solution would be to make more quests co-op enabled. 

I really don't think its that bad if implemented correctly. As long as they heavily discourage and warn players i think its fine.

Imagine the situation they are in.

either progress the story and lose a lot of potential players

Or

Make new content not connected to the story and not go in the direction they want to go.

(Again this opinion can completely change if this is implemented poorly.)

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Itz2Cat

[DrBorris]

11 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I have yet to see an argument here as to how doing this negatively impacts any current players, beyond making some players with low emotional maturity angry because some other person got a thing in a way they don't like.

I think the (valid) concern is that it makes Warframe a worse game. Without the context of past story content, without having to engage with the new-player progression, the game is worse and people who skip will bounce off.

Being upset that the developers are making the game worse is fair. We all want the game to succeed so the game we like continues. Don't focus on the people using bad arguments, there are some real concerns that need to be considered when trying to make a good skip.

Edited October 27, 2023 by DrBorris

[Lakais]

For all the negative press to this, I will say that I see DE's logic and I think this is the least of the evils to be chosen. In DE's shoes, they want to increase player retention. And no new player want to be hit with a three page long checklist of things to do before they get to the new stuff. Yes. We played through it, some even saw it as suffering. But why should they? WF already has the issue where new players come in, they get smacked in the face will the mechanics to understand and they then see the star chart and some well-meaning vet opens their mouth a bit too much; the result of all this is that the new player feels like it's too much and won't even try. 

There already are "pay-2-skip" for RJ, NM and AW. Probably also for KD, but I doubt that's important. So what they are basically advertising is a unified bundle with all these that when you buy, gives you automatic check-marks to all the NECESSARY quests with a story rundown as to what is going on. You can get right into the new stuff. Are more likely to retain new players who will then go back and do the quests that WEREN'T auto-complete and replay the quests that were. 

And lets be fair here; the old quests are showing their age. But I'm also certain that the devs have better things to work on then tweaking and polishing quests that are half a decade old. 

45 minutes ago, Rachel_dArc said:

3) Start at the new quest.  If the player chooses #3, they get the bare necessities for what's needed to go in. A very simple railjack, a very simple necromech, etc. They get a story told of what's come before - and they can go into the story as a 'prelude' of sorts to get things and expand on what they have. 

Basically what I imagine the "pay-2-skip" will end up looking like. If this option would be put in for free, DE would have an EVEN BIGGER fire to put out with regards to people that not only farmed out all the stuff, but who bought it. As a free option, is in my opinion the worst way they could do it. 

Right now we don't know what their plan entails. What would the bundle contain, what would it costs all that is speculation. 

[Genitive]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

by skipping, you will have 0 clue about anything in warframe, like you wont know anything about the man in the wall, who the Operator is, the story of you and teshin and the Kuva queens, Who the stalker is, the story of Excalibur umbra.

I agree, but I'm not going to tell someone else how to play the game. If they just want to play some missions with friends, then I don't really care if they skipped a bunch of quests or not.

And quests are repeatable, so they can just replay them without weeks of grind.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Genitive

[IggySnow]

I think paying to skip all the existing content to get to the new stuff is a bad idea.

But I think having the option to pay to skip all the unimportant content in between the quests is a good idea.

Like paying for it gives you a few frames to choose from that are rank 30 with some maxed basic mods, a bunch of endo, credits, etc. You are given a railjack and an archwing, when you open up the star chart it shows all the nodes being unlocked that were required to get to the next quest you need to do, then the next important quest is unlocked and you have to do that quest. then hen you finish that quest it unlocks the rest of the nodes to get to the next quest which you then have to complete. And the game continues doing that until you get to the newly released content.

This would let new/returning players get to the new content really fast, but would still require them to actually play the important quests.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Personally, don't really mind too much, based on my interpretation. 

Would I personally try to skip content? No... but thats because I am the kind of person that would watch a movie and then 3 season TV series from 40 years ago, to prep for a reference in a game, if I think it was important for context. Would I recommend it? Also no, but I have pretty particular tastes, so my recommendations tend to come with disclaimers and context. 

I do think the idea could potentially be counter productive and counter intuitive. Sometimes certain people do need certain motivations to enjoy content to progress, and thus creating a reward loop, of doing content to get story and then doing story to get content and so on. That also being said, there is a lot of variety in people and how they are motivated and behave. I think some people can get a bit lost in their own framing and beliefs and inability to be a bit more objective or considerate to how other people are. For example? For some people, its not really about being hard or difficult... its the sheer amount of time involved. For some of us, the time required is or some other matter, like not wanting to do Railjack quests. For some it might just be about wanting to play with friends of different levels. Also when I say potentially, they probably have much more substantial data, history and references to indicate this would be effective as far as retaining players/encouraging certain types of players. 

I think there are a few knee jerk reactions and arguments, and some are valid, but a lot just fall back to individuals very specific personal vision of what the game should be, according to them, not really accounting for other peoples agency or preferences. Like again, I wouldn't, and I wouldn't generally recommend it. That being said, if someone does? Because they were recommended Warframe by a friend, and they want to do the new content on week of release, and they friend decides to gift them the skip bundle? Does not negatively affect me, doesn't bother me. To put it another way, a lot of Warframe is inspired by other content, so there is an argument to be made, that without proper knowledge of all of those sources, direct and implicit, you miss out. Often the more context, the better the understanding but ultimately its really just down to individuals and how they spend their time and money. 

[InoffensiveName2022]

47 minutes ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

So does anyone else recall The New War? That whole locked into can't quit can't progress never to return to "normal" Warframe unless you finished it... I definitely haven't forgotten all those threads, all those players who struggled, begged, pleaded...

Does this pay-to-skip plan negate all that? Will it allow people to bypass the quest everyone prior was told couldn't be avoided?

That's very much garbage, if so.

Rae, The New War is a turd; and the devs should absolutely not inflict it on players, old or new. I have already posted about it elsewhere (below). The fact that they have been inflicting it on people in the past does not mean that it is a good idea for them to continue to do so.