Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!

[(PSN)ApoX95]

an option I would prefer much more would be to make the Story Quests Co-op compatible. having a friend that still needs to catch up on a lot of content wouldn't be so frustrating if we could literally help them in mission - it would also allow us to dive back into the nostalgia of past quests we haven't touched for a while.

while I do understand the pay-to-skip option I would definitely prefer co-op compatibility. both options would be perfect. but if I had to choose? it would be co-op compatibility.

[Cr4zyDoc]

One thing i dont understand is people complaining about "its unfair because Veterans invested time" etc...

Its a story skip. Quests that arent hard and take the least time in the game compared to the MR Grind...

-Problems i see: New players skip, play one quest and sice they have no clue about the variety in this  game leave.

I personally started 3-4 years ago. Former Friends brought me into the game. Yes, i had to do a LOT of stuff before i was able to paticipate in all the activities they were doing at that time. Thats not really changing. Having a full decked loadout will take some time. With the basics you would get from a skip, youre not ready to do eidolons. Youre not ready for steelpath... etc. 

I see were DE is coming from with the changes. But some stuff must be done for that as well.

- Better UI for quests, so players are able to see in which order the mainline storyquests have to be played, so people who skipped are able to replay them properly.

- Tutorials for all the basic stuff for Weapons/Frames/Operator/Amp/Railjack etc... 

Players who would be just thrown in and skip, most likely dont have a clue what to do when faced with most tasks a regular player would have learned throughout WFs questlines. In the end it would also lead to players leaving.

The stuff that me kept playing is the amount of variety WF offers (Diffrent frames/Approach on missions etc) and for a big part also the story! So i really hope youre able to figure out a good system to implement a way to skip stuff but also incentivise playing the whole story. Since the release is not that far ahead i suggest not forcing it. Do it right or give yourself more time to get it right first try. There are a lot of good suggestions and ideas in this thread. Make use of them. Try to make the best system for it possible.

 

[700stalkar007]

I understand the general idea of why this is brought,but i am absolutely against it. There are no benefits that can outweight the negatives in this case.

1. While i am completely against any p2w in games,i made an exception for warframe. It wasnt as forcefull about it and the advantages it gave you were neither exclusive nor major then we got riven market.
   Skipping story (aka hundreds of hours) is major. We already have most functional items being monetised which i am not happy about,but going for quests is crossing the line.We have enough p2w in the game as is.
   As a player,having price on every game element makes me feel like i no longer play the game to enjoy it and have fun,but play it to not spend money.
2. New player experience: A lot of playerbase has a quit point when you open a mod page,this is a problem,maybe not a big one but a problem nonetheless.
   Now what you do,is add operator+focus,arcanes,factions,open worlds,railjack,SP and more. Going from "a new player has about 2 path to go" to "a new player has 10+ places to go,they have literally no idea about". This just turns in to a complete mess with no order or cohesion. Hell, the story aspect alone is massive.
   While quests do segregate the playerbase,they also prevent newbies from dealing with content they really should not deal with. Doing content and quests is the ONLY time playes have to go from "wasd+shoot" to understanding complex mechanics this game has.This removes it.We go from "what are mods?how do i use them?" to "what are mods?how do i use them?what is operator,what are focus schools,which do i pick,what is arcane,what is open world,what is necramech,what is railjack,what is open world,what/how/why....."you get the point
    
3. Skipping content: This will create a chunk of playerbase that have "fake" progression and being grouped together with more experienced players. I dont think i am the only one who was tired of public lobbies on high-level content with players having literally no idea what they are doing. Examples?Excals on tridolon hunt,"afk turret" players in railjack,SP content with automod and more. All it did is make me play solo much more.
    
4. New player progression:  If the primary purpose of this is "because it takes too long for new players to get to 'new stuff'" i dont think this is a good way of doing it.
   This dealing with symptoms,not curing the problem. If you have a fire in the area you dont install a ramp to jump over it ... you put it out.
   If the plan is making new players acces new stuff faster,you could make some "mandatory" content to be optional(like junctions),reduce the grind(like with railjack),timegates(3.5 days for warframe,srsly) and making in-game tutorials/guides for new players.
   
   All of that so ...  a new player can spend X amount of $ to try new content and get lost?
   Players should not skip 10 years of game existing "just cuz me want new shiny".Period.

Even if say,we make "pay to skip" be a thing,and lock it to a gift it from an account with hard MR requirement (like 15-20+). For two primary cases 1)Veteran making an alt 2)Experienced player helping their friend get in to the game. This still is a garbage way to introduce someone to a game by tossing them in a middle of events they have no connection to.

IF this to ever exist it should be FREE "drifters path" from duviri->new war->post new war quests, without giving them access to all of the features from previous quests. IF quest requires a mechanic such player cannot have - give them a trial for that quest(similar to necralist mechs). Then players would go back and do operators part of the story obtaining and unlocking it.

Then again,do we not have enough examples of this being implemented and how bad it got?I think heirloom was enough.

Edited October 29, 2023 by 700stalkar007

[MedRoy]

After a lot of thinking, I think I disagree with my post now. People should be allowed to play the game however they wish.

Should the early game progression still be rebalanced? yes. Do I still think that modding should be less intimidating on new players? yes.

But the option to skip the story should still exist for people who want to take it, Just because the story and progression is important to me doesn't mean it has to matter to everyone.

This decision will probably be disliked by a major part of the player base, But good luck dev team <3

[DalanorTheLlama]

Hard to add anything but as many have pointed out already the story quest themselves are not a problem. Getting there is.

Why we still have restrictions that were only put in to pad out content? If the content is not relevant anymore (aka not the newest shiny) consider lowering requirements (MR gates, tasks that required to complete, etc.) and make it easier for new and returning player to catch up. New war being an excelent example. Just remove the railjack and necramech requirements, lend a basic version of those for the duration of the quest and be done with it. The quest itself is not demanding at all.

This "10 years worth of content" is 10-15 hours of actual gameplay at best but even that has a lof of fat to be removed to make it more streamlined.

If someone has friends to help them out this makes little to no difference. It only depends on how much someone wants to be carried.
For new solo players the experience would be ruined. You even droped the whole Duviri path as a starting point after 3 months of introducing it so I have no clue why this is even a topic now. Unless it's a monetary driven idea ...

Creating a problem then selling the solution is not the way here. Fixing the root cause of the problem is the long term way to go.

[Valkyrie9001]

I think that this route is going to hinder the game more than help it. I'll provide a few solutions, some not mutually exclusive. The reasons are because:

I think passing a paywall to newbies who don't know better, especially since we're currently unaware of the price, is a bad idea already, but also disrespectful to the immense amount of hard work that has been put into the game so far.

I understand people will be able to go back and play what came beforehand, but how many will do so for the story rather than just the rewards? Warframe's atmosphere and story is much of what has kept me around so long and it's already jumbled enough as it is nowadays without the CRITICALLY IMPORTANT Events issued back into the game (that should be).

Are people really going to understand just what the hell is going on if you do this? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point of, not the gameplay content, but the Quest itself if people are just going to be confused about and/or taken off guard by it?

Player retention might be difficult to maintain for a few reasons. The first would be a lack of guidance. This will only be made worse if this is the only solution we're chasing for this more subcategorical problem of new player accessibility. You know what's provided me guidance in my 10,000 hours of playtime? The Events that have introduced nearly all of the game's systems. These must be reintroduced as Quests. After that, it's a matter of reconfiguring the Junction Objectives and Quest Prerequisites so that the story lines up linearly as it has for veterans across the game's lifespan.

Ultimately, I don't think new players accessing new content is the problem. It's investing them so they get that far. I've started a new account on a Switch. It's not half as captivating now as it was for me then without all these patches of lore. The update cycle and growth of the game participated toward much of that feeling as well, but that's its own separate thing. However, if we're really insistent on doing this, here are my few solutions I suggest to you:

1. First and foremost, provide any kind of detailed synopsis for the events of the game up until this point.

2. Even doing that, the new content could be shocking and not representative of the game at all up until this point. Go the extra mile and make a few unique missions for new players, or better yet, a whole 'nother introductory Quest.

3. Follow the earlier proposed idea of redesigning the Events and Quests in order to provide a more holistic experience that will make players more than happy to head toward the new content. This will solve more than one, more than two MAJOR issues with the whole of the game.

[JustinJustinJustinJustin]

As someone pointed out this isn't fixing anything DE 

Your essentially making a bridge over a pit filled with quicksand and then asking people to cough up cash to use the bridge when the pit shouldn't even be there.

 

Treat the cause not just the symptoms!

 

ALSO treating the story/music/artwork of Warframe as this great hurdle to overcome instead of the masterpiece it is, in the words of a chatter during the last dev stream

"Does not inspire joy"

[Genitive]

After reading some posts and thinking about it for a while I'm starting to lean towards not implementing a skip, and rather further improving the new-player experience. Increase starting equipment slots, reduce crafting times (especially of warframes, 72 hours is absurd), give better rewards from junctions (equipment slots, important mods, forma, orokin cells). Completing quests and junctions should also provide experience boosters to make levelling equipment less of a slog.

Reintroduce the old operations as quests. Currently, you have a quest, hours of grind, a quest, hours of grind, etc. Operations have a lot of story that is no longer accessible, putting them back in the game will not only make the story more interesting and coherent, but will provide a better experience when going through the star chart. The 10-year anniversary showed that adding them back is totally possible.

At the end of the day adding a story skip won't be a big deal, but I think everyone will gain if changes to progression will be a priority. Because even when a new player skips the story, the game will be the same as for the rest of us. Is there really anything to skip to?

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

I don't care either way about the outcome -- skip or don't skip -- but I am mystified.

Some people talking about reworking the whole star chart and quests as an alternative to pay-to-skip... Y'all realize the whole reason this is even being discussed is because Whispers is expected to release before the end of the year? As in, that's less than 2 months?

Also, the "value" and "as long as it's cheap." If it's supposed to be a pack purchasable with plat there's not going to be plat included in the bundle. If said pack comes with mods and endo, take a glance at the cost for a mere 4 mods and measley 1000 endo in the market. How about the Lich mod bundle? The point is this cannot possibly be inexpensive because the comparisons are readily available.

Then there's the suggestions of cut out the grind and remove some of the content so it's easier and faster for new players to get through. I really cannot believe this is seriously being considered a roadblock.

1. Warframe is kinda amazing BECAUSE it has so much content.
2.  At any given time there is ALWAYS someone complaining that it needs more content or asking why there isn't new content or it takes so long between updates.
3. At any other time, NOBODY would be complaining about a guaranteed 100 hours worth of free gameplay. NOW it's a PROBLEM?!
4. Expecting a looter game to not be grindy is as silly as expecting a shooter game to only have melees.

I'm especially confused by devs wanting new people to PLAY their game while simultaneously seeking a way for new people to NOT PLAY their game. Like, make up your minds. And tell me again why nobody has been allowed to skip The New War but it's fine to bypass quests to get to Whispers.

This is a great game. This is a unique great game. There is NOTHING like Warframe out there -- trust me I've looked. If people want to play Whispers, they should just PLAY THE GAME. If they wanna play with friends who are further along, maybe they SHOULD have to bullet jump 5 miles up a hill in the dark without a Kavat to get a single argon crystal like the rest of us did a few doz... uhm... hundred times.

Finally, I really don't think any of this would've been an issue to very many had it not been proposed directly on the heels of the Heirloom fiasco. Made bed lie in and all that jazz...

[(PSN)Qazaar634]

Hi everyone,

I've never been one to participate in forums, but after hearing DE considering adding pay2skip to story quests I really felt the need to provide some feedback, I'm really sorry if this sounds harsh at some point, I'm doing the best I can.

In my opinion pay2skip is a death sentence for the game. And I'm going to start with the simple argument first: If this, as a solution goes through, that's basically an incentive for the devs to keep using it as a solution to skip other grinds present in the game. It's a 'Hey it worked once, it'll work again, right?' kind of deal. We currently have a pay2skip feature in game, which is rushing things for platinum at the foundry, and whenever someone asked 'Is it worth it to do that?' The community has always agreed that it's not. It has never been a good feature because of how expensive it is. For instance, 50 plat is just not worth skipping 3 days of waiting for a warframe to be built, we can easily farm something else to kill time and use those 50 plat later on to get something more useful and that will probably save us longer than 3-days time in the long run.
Now my second argument. I have brought friends to play the game before, back when the sacrifice was released. I taught them all the basics of the game and helped them to get started with basic mods, farming resources, etc. The only objective I gave them was 'Play the available main story'. Everything else they did on their way to achieve that objective was their business, that way they could feel a genuine Warframe experience, the good and the bad. Once they finished The Sacrifice, guess what, they all concluded that the story was by far the best thing the game had to offer theh absolutely enjoyed it and that alone was enough to keep them hooked. To them, the in-game grind was okay because we were just chilling, talking about whatever while we played and farmed stuff, they didn't even feel the time gates because we all have our personal life so they found the foundry waiting time, for instance, an healthy feature, because it gave us all time to go touch some grass, lol. Still, they always knew that playing on their own would've been a lot tougher to enjoy.

I really thank DE for acknowledging that the amount of grind for new players can be overwhelming and I thank them for trying to address this issue. The problem is that the main story, not only isn't as grindy as other parts of the available content, it is also part of the game's identity. When you say 'Warframe' the first thing I can think of aside from 'looter shooter' is 'Amazing story', the sentient arc had amazing quests, like 'The second dream', 'The war within', and of course, 'The new war', and I think that allowing players to skip the story will take away the exposure from one of the game's strongest points, I believe that adding pay2skip to the story without addressing the most grindy parts of the content first, will unironically give more exposure to it, making it a lot more noticeable.

If I had to propose some solutions, well...In my opinion the shops DE has added in the latest updates, for instance, the one where you can Mirror Defense loot or the one where you can buy the Conjunction Survival loot were actually a good approach to me, they give you incentive to keep playing their respective game modes to acquire currency, while also working as a safety measure for your bad luck. Both of those shops have saved me tons of time and the frustration of not getting that one missing blueprint/part/arcane, etc. after doing the same missions countless times. I think DE could do something similar with other heavily grindy experiences available. For instance, you could add the arcanes available from eidolon hunting to a shop managed by Onkko. And we could use Sentient Cores or Narmer Isoplasts as a currency. That way, if we don't get the arcane we were looking for, then we can just buy a copy from Onkko in Cetus with the currency I mentioned. It would reduce the amount of time required to max out a single arcane from literal months to maybe a week at most. This would also solve the side issue of people constantly asking for Operation: Orphix Venom to come back.
That is my view on this topic, and the feedback I had to provide, I really hope it helps even if it only bring inspiration for new healtier solutions. Again, thank you DE for the amazing game you have created, let us hope that it lives for another 10 years.

[(PSN)rexis12]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

Some people talking about reworking the whole star chart and quests as an alternative to pay-to-skip... Y'all realize the whole reason this is even being discussed is because Whispers is expected to release before the end of the year? As in, that's less than 2 months?

Oh then I'm sure that once Whisper in the Walls is done they'll put all their effort and time to make the Starchart better

And not... You know add in EVEN MORE CONTENT that makes the current situation even worse.

If they add this Pay to Skip, welp there goes any actual incentive for them to make the early grind actually palatable for these New Players that DE apparently wants so much to stay with Warframe.

 

[Chroia]

For what it's worth:

I love the communication, hearing the conversations you're having on a topic.
Thanks for sharing.

---

Not disclaimering every single statement.
The following is opinion. I might be wrong.

On 2023-10-27 at 11:23 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Warframe has a decade of content to explore - this is a strength AND a weakness. 

Respectfully, no. Your problem isn't '10 years of content', it's '7+ years of padding'.
As such, you're going about this backwards.

tl;dr - The actual main quest line is fine. The problem is the playtime bloat that's required to get to it (via underpowered solo node unlocking + squadless, lootframe-less resource farming for gear crafting + leveling when solo, underpowered and without access to an EXP farm).
Want a 'minimum effort required' method to get players into the new content faster?
Make a pack that unlocks the critical (node) path from Earth to Regna (adjacent to the Sedna Junction which has The War Within), and gives a rank 4 Fleeting Expertise and Continuity. Possibly also include the Small Energy Restore blueprint.

This means that the new player will actually get what (little) instruction/tutorializing Warframe does, as well as actually get to experience the story (though things like The Second Dream will, perforce, lose most of their impact).

Quests are, iirc, balanced for a reasonable power level (or entirely divorced from your arsenal), so no need to fudge with that.
And don't even have to unlock the Junctions, as a player can use unlocked nodes on a locked planet, unless this has been changed.
On the other hand, the player will still want to complete the junctions, whether for their rewards or MR-exp.

Stretch is an Uncommon from Phorid, Intensify is iirc common from the first Cetus bounty, Overextended and Narrow Minded are non-critical, and we don't want to completely remove all need to farm Corrupted mods.
iirc you're still not gonna have about half the elemental mods (shotgun elec a prime offender), crit mods (primarily Vital Sense, and subsequently Hunter Munitions), or multishot. I haven't checked recently, so I'll leave up to you what to do about that.
But this still leaves a new player best served focusing on melee or shotguns, from both a 'mod acquisition' and 'cost to rank' perspective.
Not that they'll know that, of course.

 

Optionally, talk with Brozime - or anyone else who does occasional 'from fresh to goal' accounts. Brozime, specifically, will have records of his runs, due to his streamer-ness.
The problem with this, of course, being that, as an experienced player, they're liable to overlook the lack of knowledge a genuinely new player would suffer from.
Warframe is a very different experience if you do or don't know what you're doing.

Which is a whole different conversation that you'll need to have, if you want to improve new player retention - but is beyond the scope of this thread, so I won't get into it.

P.S.
When is the last time someone did an 'undercover boss' run?
There were significant (and sometimes obvious) improvements to the early game after Scott's run, and for the few months of Sunday Steve streams.

 

Some context, for a slightly more indepth answer: 

I've been playing Warframe since shortly before the shift to open beta.
I do have a main account, but for years what I would do when I hit 'log in -> what do? -> log out' would be to start a fresh account, often with some gimmick or restriction, and play it until I got it capable of completing the current hardest content.
I have, at this point 9 accounts. I'd have to do a review, but at current iirc 5 are Archon Hunt capable and all of them have them unlocked.

All of this to say, I have some experience with getting an account from fresh to current.

I haven't made a new account since the introduction of the Junctions.
(I make new accounts because suddenly Warframe becomes a challenge, and getting a good mod matters.
But the mandatory time sink that the MR reqs impose makes it just not worth it.)

 

The problem isn't the main story critical branch quests, it's the amount of time needed for either the explicit waitwalls, or for the amount of grinding needed to complete the (MR) requirements for them. See above, re- Junctions.

I've been asking you for years- What is Warframe supposed to be?
Not - as the Devstream team took it - 'is it an MMO, or etc.?', but rather 'what kind of play experience should a player expect from it?'

As things stand, Warframe goes from 'mostly unpowered, 3d person OTS shooter with some melee' to 'mostly unpowered, E-spam' to 'mostly unpowered, and your guns actually do something past level 15' to 'actually, I can afford to cast my abilities every so often' (though this is potentially earlier than I remember, due to undamage Streamline in Mercury Junction now, and Energy Siphon buyable from NW store rather than alerts) - and all this in the span of the first 4 planets.

so, like, 40-50 hours, depending.

 

There is no ingame 'this is a thing. you want this thing. this is how you get this thing' for Corrupted mods.
But once you know about them, you can start farming (a Fleeting Expertise) to actually make ability reliance viable.
Similarly, Energy pads, via Clan if you don't know any better, or from Syndicates, make a huge difference to your gameplay.
 

I consider having all the base damage, flat elemental damage, crit, multishot mods, as well as Continuity, Streamline, Fleeting, Stretch, Transient Fortitude, Overextended to be when an account has reached mid-game.
Once you hit this point, your fundamental gameplay depends entirely on how you choose to play, rather than how you're forced to play.
Focus, Arcanes, etc. improve your position, increase your options, but don't directly change your gameplay.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Chroia

[Synitare]

Skip the grind, not the story. My recommendation if you want to go with the pay-to-skip path:

• A beginner Warframe (Mag/Excal/Volt) AT LEVEL 30.
• ~6 BUILT Forma (And accompanying instruction/tutorial on what they are, how to use them, WHY to use them, and where to get more)
• A selection of not useless weapons, again AT LEVEL 30.
• A Railjack with a sufficient amount of Intrinsics to be able to comfortably complete the associated story Railjack missions.
• A Necramech, you guessed it, at level 30 with accompanying weapon.
• A selection of useful mods for warframes/weapons/railjack/necramechs, enough endo to level them up to reasonable levels and a tutorial on what mods are and how to level/use them.
• A mostly unlocked Starchart. Leave at least one node of each mission type as a sort of introduction to those missions and a gateway before Steel Path.
• A brief introduction to what the Steel Path is, how to access it and when players should begin to progress through it.

The goal should be to kickstart players into being able to participate in relevant content. The story missions themselves don't take a significant amount of time to complete, it's all the lead-up to them that takes time. Leveling the frames, unlocking the Star Chart, various rep grinds, and most egregious the insanely long build times for all the necessary things.

Frankly speaking, the Star Chart itself is in dire need of a complete redesign. The visual aesthetic of kneeling in front of a projection of the solar system is REALLY cool, but strictly speaking there's not really much of a reason we need THIRTY FOUR (34) different Defense nodes scattered across 18 different planets and moons (not counting Empyrean nodes). There are more than 260 mission nodes at this point, and more keep getting added. It's hilariously overwhelming even as a returning veteran. This is another topic though so I'll leave it at that.

[Haigus]

I don't have anything against pay to skip but i also think it will not help players stick longer in the game.

I understand people wanting to skip to the action or the part they want to play, when i was a kid i jumped all cutscenes of the games to play right away, but Warframe is very complicated and there is a lot of mechanics, a lot of equipments and places to grind and things to build, all these things will make players who skip these parts to be totaly lost. Even for those who played all tutorials and unlocked all nodes and played all the storyline the things was hard and slow to understand, we had to read the wiki, watch tutorials and experiment with things by ourselves, for example, just the menu alone is separated in a lot of places, the mission menu is on the map with lots of nodes and boxes around with a lot of diferent gameplay modes, there is no clear path to follow. The upgrades and selection menu is in another place and foundry is in yet another, and so on.

So, knowing all of that, i will suggest some things that i wish to have in the game when i was a new player, hopefully this can help with new players too:

 - Improved tutorials. When i started the game back then the first mission was already reworked and was very good, things was explained on the fly and the first quest was interesting, but immediatly after that i was dropped on the ship without a path to follow, without knowing that i had to clear the nodes on the system and without knowing where was the open worlds, could have a guide there to the path to follow.

 - Story focused path. Like on duviri, the players select a box and play one story mission after the other, back to back. To help to know the star chart the missions need to show where the player is, in what planet or moon and show when is a open world there, on Deimos for example.

 - Borrow system. To the players should be given the default items required to progress the quest for limited time while they are doing the quest or even putting the items inside the mission near the place they have to use it, this way they can progress, go to the end and build what they need when they want, this way they can catch up with their friends without being lost.

 - Skipable cutscenes and dialogues. Players should be able to control what they want to see.

 - Improved menu UI. Maps could have more details on then, when hovering on a node they could show what type of mission is it, a resume of what to expect in there and the possible rewards, like already happen on bounties. Ui improvement could happen on mission results too, when you level up warframes an weapons on the beggining there are no clue what traits of the warframe we are gaining from levels. And other places could take some improvements too like crafting, relics, companions and others.

After all these considerations i have to say that nobody knows for sure what will work and we know that Digital Extremes as a whole is experimenting and improving the game a lot all these years, even more on the recent updates and i am very glad for the path they are going and i hope they can nail it like they always do.

[Emwue]

6 minutes ago, Synitare said:

The story missions themselves don't take a significant amount of time to complete, it's all the lead-up to them that takes time.

About 20 to 25 hours, just to play through all of the quests.

Just for the sake of clarity, average gamer plays for 1 hour 13 minutes a day, making that 20-25h a 20 to 25 day endeavour, just to play the quests.

We are not even 20 days into Degath, iirc, and how many people are already finished with the Abyssal Zone grind? Remember, the stated goal of this solution is for people who want to start playing the new update together with their friends.

Now sure, whispers will be longer than this, but... Your solution would fail those people, since their friends will be mostly finished with the update, by the time they end doing the quests.

And that's literally, if you remove the *entire* game, leaving just the cinematic quests for them to do and *nothing* else.

Seriously, it's 10 years of content any way you slice it, there's really no other way than either allow to skip it(either for money or otherwise) or not providing any solution for such people.

[wodanclay]

I don't think there is enough information given in this post currently to make a proper decision. 

What does the "Story Pack" actually include? What I mean is - Does it complete the main quest? Side quest? Does it give relevant gear one would have needed to complete said quest?

For example completing The New War requires a Nercamech and Railjack, will this story pack give those items to the player who buys it? Or will said player have to go grind them anyway so they can play that content? Or are you expecting these players to just buy them from the market since they bought the Story Pack?

Ultimately, it is up to the player themselves to decide if they want to buy the Story Pack or not, but personally if it doesn't give everything a player would need to actually play with their friends, then I don't see much point of it. It could be viewed as just taking a player's money and throwing them to the wolves if not done properly.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, Synitare said:

Skip the grind, not the story. My recommendation if you want to go with the pay-to-skip path:

• A beginner Warframe (Mag/Excal/Volt) AT LEVEL 30.
• ~6 BUILT Forma (And accompanying instruction/tutorial on what they are, how to use them, WHY to use them, and where to get more)
• A selection of not useless weapons, again AT LEVEL 30.
• A Railjack with a sufficient amount of Intrinsics to be able to comfortably complete the associated story Railjack missions.
• A Necramech, you guessed it, at level 30 with accompanying weapon.
• A selection of useful mods for warframes/weapons/railjack/necramechs, enough endo to level them up to reasonable levels and a tutorial on what mods are and how to level/use them.
• A mostly unlocked Starchart. Leave at least one node of each mission type as a sort of introduction to those missions and a gateway before Steel Path.
• A brief introduction to what the Steel Path is, how to access it and when players should begin to progress through it.

The goal should be to kickstart players into being able to participate in relevant content. The story missions themselves don't take a significant amount of time to complete, it's all the lead-up to them that takes time. Leveling the frames, unlocking the Star Chart, various rep grinds, and most egregious the insanely long build times for all the necessary things.

Frankly speaking, the Star Chart itself is in dire need of a complete redesign. The visual aesthetic of kneeling in front of a projection of the solar system is REALLY cool, but strictly speaking there's not really much of a reason we need THIRTY FOUR (34) different Defense nodes scattered across 18 different planets and moons (not counting Empyrean nodes). There are more than 260 mission nodes at this point, and more keep getting added. It's hilariously overwhelming even as a returning veteran. This is another topic though so I'll leave it at that.

The dangerous territory we're walking into with this kind of topic, and I know DE is aware hence the whole feedback thread and communication, is essentially selling account boosts/Mastery Ranks. I know it's in other games, but Warframe has always stuck out for not following those titles. The more monetization strategies that creep in the landscape of modern multiplayer games, the less integrity Warframe has going for it. It's a major strength that isn't being overlooked by any means, but bending it so much will eventually cause it to break.

I quoted you to say this because your suggestion is actually coming from a great place and I support the message of reducing the bloat between quests. I'm just not sure if any kind of skip through monetization could help with this without being a net negative for the game. It would be far better for the integrity of Warframe (especially after Regal Aya, Heirlooms, and other things) if the problems players are bringing up here addressed properly and for free instead of as a paid option.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Voltage

[(XBOX)Irridescence701]

There should be a mentor system in Warframe. 

An entirely opt-in system where experienced players (maybe MR30+) can choose to become mentors for new players who choose to have a mentor.

This is something that needs to be heavily advertised to new players while still being a choice. It shouldn't be forced on anyone because then no one actually willing to help will do it. 

It should be accessed in its own menu with a chat function for the two players to be able to communicate in-game. Preferably a mail-like system that allows for offline messaging so new Tenno can pose questions to their Mentor even if the Mentor is offline.

There should be some incentives that make it an attractive option for high experience and new players alike, maybe even a few cosmetics. 

 

Although any exclusive rewards need to be available for both new Tenno and Mentors to obtain, otherwise it would be unfair to existing players and people who choose to skip the system early on.

I honestly think a mentor system would help the new player experience feels less isolating, it'd help to combat misinformation that spreads throughout the community, and would serve as a good guide for new players looking to catch up to the current game.

Please feel free to comment any add-ons to this idea!!

Sincerely, Irri - a very passionate Tenno

[dukiwave77]

19 hours ago, shut said:

This about sums up my experience with getting friends to play the game (video link, which I'm sure has already been shared a bunch in this thread).

WF has a heavy time investment requirement for progressing through the main questline, which is incompatible with many would-be-players out there for infinitely many valid reasons. Implementing an option to speed through ~10 years' worth of content to get to the shiny new stuff would greatly improve accessibility if done right, and the subsequent influx of new players enjoying the best of what Warframe has to offer will be good for literally everyone involved (new players, old players, and devs alike).

HOWEVER: I don't think that skipping quests outright is the best solution for this. Warframe's cinematic quests (ESPECIALLY The New War) contain some of the most memorable and iconic moments in the entire game, and the time commitment for doing the quests themselves is quite small compared to the time investment required for simply unlocking them. As a very very VERY approximate visualization of what I mean, here's what I imagine this time investment might look like for a new player starting Warframe in 2023 and playing through the end of Whispers in the Walls:

My problem is that DE's currently proposed solution (i.e. paying to skip the red+yellow wedges to get to the green) is that the yellow (i.e. cinematic quests such as The Second Dream + The War Within + The Sacrifice + The New War, and arguably less-cinematic-but-still-important quests such as Chains of Harrow) is really, really, REALLY DAMN GOOD in terms of production quality and general appeal. Just as importantly, IMO, is that the cinematic quests provide important story context that is arguably necessary to understand and appreciate what newer cinematic quests will involve.

IMO, a better solution would be to let the player skip the red wedge (i.e. the core gameplay loop of grinding -> crafting/modding/etc to get stronger -> grinding more, until all quest/Junction prerequisites are satisfied), but not the entirety of the yellow. Skip the tens of hours of grind that would otherwise pad out the logical prerequisites for the new content, but not the logical prerequisites themselves (since that would rob players of essential background knowledge). For example, a brand-new player who takes this option would experience the game as something like:

1. TUTORIAL (Awakening + Vor's Prize)
2. The following, to be completed in no particular order:
   • THE MAIN QUESTLINE (Natah* -> Second Dream^† -> War Within -> Chains of Harrow* -> Apostasy Prologue -> The Sacrifice -> Prelude to War)
   • "VEHICLE" TUTORIALS (The Archwing**, Rising Tide**, Heart of Deimos^††)
3. THE NEW WAR
4. ANGELS OF THE ZARIMAN*
5. WHISPERS IN THE WALLS

* Could be relegated to a short expository text window or something, instead of having to complete the quests in their entirety
** Could be relegated to a single 1 mission long tutorial on how to use a borrowed Railjack and Archwing
^† Unlocks access to Cetus, Fortuna, and the Necralisk along with their accompanying quests; none of which are essential to progress the main storyline
^†† Only really here to introduce important characters prior to Whispers in the Walls, and so the player isn't seeing a necramech for the first time during The New War

The key is to maximize engagement while minimizing time investment, so this could probably be condensed even further. It would help a lot to sprinkle in some goodies in between these prerequisite quests-- e.g. instantly unlocking the other two "tutorial warframes" (e.g. Mag and Volt if they picked Excalibur) + some weapons with less "conventional" mechanics (e.g. Miter? Arca Plasmor? Zymos? Glaive?) + some pre-leveled mods-- to make sure that the player feels adequately rewarded and engaged as they progress.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~ TL;DR ~~

• Maybe don't give the option to skip literally every single quest prior to Whispers in the Walls. Important story and gameplay knowledge would be missed, causing the player to feel overwhelmed by WitW.
• Instead, give the option to simply unlock only the most essential tutorials+quests, in sequence. This prevents <insert newest quest here> from being nonsensical and jarring for players, while also eliminating ~>90% of the time spent on the "grind" (i.e. the core gameplay loop) that would've been required to unlock it.
  • The result is a simple, streamlined experience that teaches new players everything they need to know while letting them experience the best story content WF has to offer. And, of course, saving them tens to hundreds of hours.
• During this "streamlined experience", periodically reward the player with a variety of fully-crafted equipment (e.g. the other two tutorial warframes? some weapons with interesting, unconventional mechanics? pre-leveled essential mods?) to maximize engagement while minimizing time requirements and mental load.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Buuuuut, don't take my word for it! Other games already have solutions to the issue of story content being locked behind tens/hundreds of hours' worth of the "core gameplay loop". The one that I'm the most familiar with (and, IMO, the most relevant to Warframe's situation) is:

  Hide contents

~~ MONSTER HUNTER FRANCHISE ~~

For those unfamiliar, Monster Hunter is a PVE loot grinder that locks content behind a series of story quests (which themselves merely punctuate extended periods of the "core gameplay loop", very similarly to Warframe). Whenever a major DLC drops that unlocks new storylines+maps+monsters (e.g. the Iceborne and Sunbreak expansions for the previous two games), nearly all aspects of that DLC are locked behind completion of the main story of the base game.It's worth noting that Monster Hunter tends to be far less story-focused than Warframe. 

In order to give the option to speed through the base game and get to the DLC faster, Capcom gives players easy access to the Defender Armour Set and Defender Weapons-- which, basically, are reasonably powerful equipment with virtually zero crafting cost that removes the necessity for pre-DLC grinding. This lets the player progress through the main story very quickly, without actually skipping the main story and missing out on valuable context for the DLC.

• However, players are still expected to actually complete prerequisite story quests before accessing the new stuff. Otherwise, the story "continuing" based on things that the player has never experienced, as well as the difficulty spike, would be so jarring that it would sour the experience.
• It's worth noting that the Defender Set is free for all players regardless of whether players purchased the DLC or not. But the core games are not free-to-play to begin with, so the monetization scheme isn't super relevant to how DE will handle it in Warframe.

 

 

 

New player here, you nailed that piechart while making excellent points. The yellow part is what gets people hooked on this game, letting newbies pay to not play it is crazy

[Silver_Wisp]

I jave read alot of good thoughts both for and against a skip system. I have played for years starting out the ps4 and then restarting on the pc and then even the switch. While it is difficult to get back to the point you were on another system, those quests help teach how to play on that system type. Mobile is no different. I even have several kids that are interested in Warframe that have mental and physical issues that are trying to get though this same content. I will agree with the ideas of allowing an story only mode with borrowed gear and the idea of allowing co-op and the alot of the main story quests. Im also with those that pointed out that railjacks and arcwings are not a very big part of game play. The same goes for the necromechs. I think it would be a great idea to restructure the npe and even combine some of the stand alone quest that work better together. For example, instead of having to do two quests for arcwing and railjack, put them together. Could even add in the necromechs and operater as well. This could help both new and old players see how these different techs work together. There is alot of great content that would make current content unplayable without knowing how to use whats needed first. 

As for what someone said about the syndicates, i do agree that there are too many to have to work with and has held me back from some of the games content because i havent reached a certain rank to do it like the orb weaver for using arcguns in open world. 

There is alot of content in this game and even if a skip was provided, the old content would still need to be played inorder to gain access of everything the game has to offer. So to simplyfy, see what can be combined and/or moved around to make the grind to current endgame less of a hassle without removing any of the leasons that need to be taught inorder to play the current endgame.

[(XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL]

The biggest problem: new players without skills. Playing in a group is always risky, when you don't recruit them. The story skip mode would only make this worse

Last time playing in duviri for example was a terrible experience for me because some squad members were not able to execute the easiest missions. So i decided to play solo in the future. Nobody wants to carry people through missions that are designed for a full squad considering the fact that the difficulty level can be really challenging for one player, while others do no dps at all, for example.

There are many other reasons why multi player mode is getting worse and worse. Bad loading times, host migration. Etc.

Crossplay is not a good idea when playing on different console generations 

If you take everything into account then this is the beginning of the end of the multiplayer game for Warframe .

 

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

I need to be blunt. This is a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons, as well as a poorly presented one. Allow me to explain with the following rationale:

1. Warframe's story does not take "hundreds of hours of gameplay" to complete in its current state. Presenting it as such is disingenuous, as we all know the vast, overwhelming majority of play time spent in Warframe is spent grinding for gear. Grinding that, mind you, is not necessary to complete the questline itself. The story itself takes roughly a dozen hours to complete, not including the optional quests. Warframe's content drops are drip fed to the playerbase as well and are nowhere near the level of size and scope that something like an FFXIV expansion includes and thus does not really warrant or need a story skip. Even The New War doesn't compare to something like FFXIV's Endwalker expansion in terms of sheer size and content.

2. Warframe is not an MMO. Warframe is a cooperative looter shooter with RPG mechanics. At most, one could consider it to be an MMO-lite. Actual MMOs use story skips as an option because it's a popular trend for players to have more than one character under their accounts. These players use story skips to catch their side characters up to their main without spending the same amount of time doing so. Warframe does not have this issue. Every piece of gear, including Operators and Drifters, have multiple configuration slots that in most cases remove the need for multiple characters. Also, Warframe is a game where new characters do not need to redo the story line, as the new "characters" are the Warframes. Warframe's game design overall also doesn't work like MMOs in that older content is still relevant in some form or fashion in Warframe. It isn't JUST Duviri right now, or Dagath. The majority of the content in the game is still relevant to some degree due to such mechanics as The Steel Path. Including a story skip option defies this philosophy, and pushes Warframe towards a mindset of discarding content old content rather than improving it, which comes off as lazy and uncaring towards the work put in by developers years ago while making money off of this decision.

3. Confirmation bias, but I have never once heard of any new player expressing the desire to skip Warframe's story in the nine years I have been playing the game, including from the many new players I have played with. I do not know where this alleged sudden increase in complaints about the questline have come from. Warframe is, at this point, highly lore and story focused. Adding the option to skip the story and lore that's been worked on and built upon for years seems contradictory to the love and care that the team seems to express toward the game. People SHOULD work for access to new areas of the game. That's how most video games work, and DE of all people should know this. Speaking of which....

4. Vor's Prize is NOT at all a good point for this story skip option to be made available. Vor's Prize covers basics, but doesn't even begin to summarize how complex of a game Warframe is. What this will lead to is players relying even more heavily on outside sources for information than the Warframe playerbase already does. Warframe already has a problem with lacking proper explanation behind mechanics. This would only further exasperate the issue, and could even drive new players away from the experience when combined with the sheer number of options opened up to them all at once rather than building upon a foundation over time.

5. This is a poor business decision in the context of how DE make money off of Warframe. Warframe makes its money by getting players hooked via building upon a foundation more and more overtime, tempting players further and further to spend money on the game as they continue to see customization options shown to them over time. The people that get over the overwhelming new player experience as is get hooked because of the fun, engaging gameplay loops that get more complex as they progress combined with the insane amount of gameplay and appearance customization. The cosmetic options eventually become part of the players build as their personalities are reflected in their mod, weapon, and cosmetic choices. If you allow new players to skip Warframe's current story while simply handing all of the rewards to them from those quests, it is likely that new players would suffer from being even more overwhelmed than new players currently already are. New players currently already experience issues with being overwhelmed with the amount of customization, mechanics, and options that exist. Going back to the idea of exasperating currently existing issues. They would also be less likely to continue spending on the game, as they end up skipping a large part of the journey that makes them develop an attachment to Warframe. In short, this will likely lead to new players spending even less time and money on Warframe than the current new player base does. Warframe continues to thrive because of engagement and the grind.

6. This can and will likely lead to the targeted harassment and bullying of new players. It is a very common trend in multiplayer games that have such mechanics as story skips for the players that choose this route to be harassed and bullied by those who oppose this decision. The folks at DE are very aware of the backlash that even the mention of a story skip received. Rebecca said herself that The Second Dream is a rite of passage in the Warframe community for example. Choosing to skip such an important point in the game both lore and gameplay wise can easily come off as lazy, entitled, etc. since Warframe has no real need for a story skip for the reasons listed above. It does not take nearly as much time to complete the current quest line that real MMO's do, and one does not need to make multiple characters due to the many configuration slots and customization options the game has. The idea of skipping such a rite of passage by just paying for it, then proceeding to have little to no knowledge of what happened or why, while playing with "the big boys" will likely lead to a number of negative experiences. Gatekeeping, harassment, trolling, and bullying being a few examples due to such players lacking proper knowledge or skills necessary for currently going content.

7. Finally, it is quite obvious that this idea came from a place of greed rather than a place of truly wanting to improve player experience. The fact that none of these issues seemingly were taken into account, the fact that the team tried to assure that a story skip was not for sure coming despite them creating a graphic for the next update beforehand that included a very clear "Paid Story Skip Coming" line, the fact that DE would seemingly rather introduce a story skip rather than continuing to improve the new player experience, the fact that the very first response towards the negative feedback was towards accusations of greed, the fact that there is quite a large amount of damage control occurring after the mentioning of a story skip, the fact that the Devstream followed up with the hot button topic of Cross Save updates in order to try and divert attention away from the topic of story skip, and more. On top of this, game design doesn't work this way. More than likely, the story skip has already been approved and worked on for quite some time, and DE are likely at a point where NOT including it would anger investors and/or higher ups. So they choose to just now mention this because while they likely can't choose to NOT do it, they can change it. The point being that I doubt this entire thread will serve much purpose. I suspect the story skip will be coming regardless of the feedback given, as such a monetary related decision can't often be walked back so easily once approved. This thread likely only exists to placate an angered community until the rage dies down. Also a story skip is objectively P2W. You are paying to skip, therefore win, a large amount of content rather than actually completing the content and earning the rewards.

In short: This is a bad idea, and would do nothing but hurt the reputation of DE as a company, and Warframe as a game. Efforts should be being put towards improving the older quests and the new player experience rather than pretending that the older content doesn't exist. This isn't an MMO. Warframe does not need to be like World of Warcraft. Warframe does not need to be like Final Fantasy XIV. Warframe does not need to be like, god forbid, Destiny 2. Let Warframe be Warframe.

Edited October 30, 2023 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[(PSN)rexis12]

Again, I still have to remind everyone that once Whisper is done you'd still be sending these new players back to the grind that you are sure would make players quit.

Except, once again, except of just time being wasted for a Ninja experience only for it to be a farming experience, you wasted time AND money.

And considering how plat purchases work, you won't be able to do something like buy a game play a few hours and then realise it's not for you and then you refund it. Because I'm not sure how plat purchased and spent on in game packs can be refunded.

You'd essentially either swindle money out of the New Players with a shiny quest and then shunt them into the New Player killer, or you'd Sunk Cost Fallacy them into enjoying the boring grind that kills new players and breed resentment.

And this will only get worse, because what happens if this continues past Whispers In the Wall? Are you going to continuously have new quest that players skip while not touching the old quest because there's now a skip option?

[Archwizard]

Personally, I think the issue isn't that we need a "Story Skip" to unlock the new content.

I think the issue is we need a "Skip to Story" option, given that it's 100 hours of content before you unlock the Second Dream and your character creation.

I would say if you want an option for people to purchase: Let them purchase an unlock for the entire (base, not Steel Path or any quest-locked planets) Star Chart and all Junction rewards. So you get all of the unlocks for quests, but still have the prerequisite of doing the actual story.

But if we focus on the "Main Story" of Warframe as being the cinematic quests - The Second Dream, The War Within, The Sacrifice, The New War, soon Whispers in the Walls - then you don't need the half-dozen prerequisite quests separated by Junctions and Star Chart. The only important one before then, if I'm being 100% honest, is Natah.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Archwizard

[Synitare]

8 hours ago, Voltage said:

The dangerous territory we're walking into with this kind of topic, and I know DE is aware hence the whole feedback thread and communication, is essentially selling account boosts/Mastery Ranks. I know it's in other games, but Warframe has always stuck out for not following those titles. The more monetization strategies that creep in the landscape of modern multiplayer games, the less integrity Warframe has going for it. It's a major strength that isn't being overlooked by any means, but bending it so much will eventually cause it to break.

I quoted you to say this because your suggestion is actually coming from a great place and I support the message of reducing the bloat between quests. I'm just not sure if any kind of skip through monetization could help with this without being a net negative for the game. It would be far better for the integrity of Warframe (especially after Regal Aya, Heirlooms, and other things) if the problems players are bringing up here addressed properly and for free instead of as a paid option.

Personally I'd rather see them take a different approach and further streamline the new player experience. One of the things that is very desperately needed is a comprehensive tutorial on the modding system. As it currently stands new players are just thrown into the mod screen after the tutorial and that's it. That said I am fully aware that DE is required to monetize the game. It's a part of running a business, for better or worse. The truth of the matter is that it wouldn't be a net negative no matter which direction they take it. Veteran players don't have to deal with it, new players that aren't interested in spending money won't, and those that are willing to spend money can jump to the shiny new thing. It would ultimately only increase the players in the game. 

The idea of "Integrity" is subjective and nebulous at best, and ultimately it matters far less than most people think. It's also not something that is going to be damaged by offering a way to jump-start new players to relevant content. As I said, they're required to monetize the game. It's just a fact of life. The true issue at hand is whether or not they achieve their goals with whatever solution they go with. If they're looking into selling some kind of skip or boost, I'd rather them do it in a way that would actually accomplish their stated goals, hence my suggestions.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Synitare