Was Margulis turned into a warframe?

[SirPaladin555]

Her death might have been explained and I just forgot, however as far as I can tell it was never explained how Margulis actually died just that she was sentenced to death by the council.

Knowing the orokin I highly doubt they would just waste somebody like Margulis, they probably would have used her by turning her into a warframe or getting ordis's treatment and getting turned into a Cephalon.

Also before anybody says it, no the lotus is not the same person as Margulis,  lotus is a sentient mimic called natah taking on the form of Margulis. Simply put Margulis and lotus are two different people.

So if she was turned into a warframe what warframe would she be turned into? Well we can safely rule out any male warframe for obvious reasons, leaving just the female warframes. 

So based on the warframes stories I have a few possible theories. But I'll start with the one that I don't think is likely.

Ember. Embers background is she was an adult on the zariman that protected the children as the other adults went mad, however she isn't Margulis as the name was actually given in her story though I confess I forget what it is off the top of my head.

With that aside my theories on warframes Margulis was possibly turned into if she was in fact made into a warframe would be either wisp or voruna.

Let me start with wisp, when ballis made wisp she just ended leaving and abandoning him which seems fitting given Margulis's story with defying ballis,  but there is more reasons than just that, wisp was designed to be the perfect guardian by ballis which is thematically accurate to what Margulis was, nurturing with her healing but also weilding the power of the sun which can be seen as symbolic for warmth and life. Additionally you Aquire wisp from the ropolyst fight. A mission where natah explains her background and you fight a sentient. I think that thematically makes alot of sense.

Secondly voruna, based on the fact voruna was described in her story as fiercely protective of the kids on Lua attacking anybody who tried to harm them including the orokin, and continued guarding the children after the the fact even when it went into the void. This gets into speculation but voruna doesn't seem to have an operator or at least not a normal one given her strong instincts and the fact she continued functioning even after all the other warframes stopped functioning at least until the start of the game when warframes re-awaken.

But that's just my thoughts and speculation,  what do you all think?

[Loza03]

Unfortunately, in so far as we know, Margulis faced the Jade Light - which is effectively instantaneous, absolute disintegration, obliterating even the Oro (which. Is now officially canon. Not quite sure how I feel about that) so that the being may never revive from the dead again. They did this because Margulis directly opposed them, and spoke against them, an act of apostasy and blasphemy. In other words, she very publically questioned their leadership and position to lead. She was dangerous and a problem, and they wanted her dealt with. Permanently.

Now, it's not Impossible that Margulis got teleported out before this happened, yes, but given that Ballas was in charge of the Warframe Project, and seems to have had first design dibs and choice of the people transformed into the initial frames, it's pretty unlikely that he'd have missed his lady 'love' that he's incredibly obsessed over having control of being transformed into something he has absolute control over.

 

Just to add notes:

13 minutes ago, SirPaladin555 said:

Ember. Embers background is she was an adult on the zariman that protected the children as the other adults went mad, however she isn't Margulis as the name was actually given in her story though I confess I forget what it is off the top of my head.

No, this isn't Ember's backstory. The story is a tangentially-related hint to the existence of the Operators. Canonically, this event most likely precedes the modern Warframe project, and certainly does before the Zariman kids went anywhere near the Warframes. I mean, the person in the story is very clearly not 'the best', which most Warframes were formed from warriors, archimedians and others of exceptional skill (which, granted, Margulis probably counted as, but as mentioned, apostasy)

15 minutes ago, SirPaladin555 said:

Let me start with wisp, when ballis made wisp she just ended leaving and abandoning him which seems fitting given Margulis's story with defying ballis,  but there is more reasons than just that, wisp was designed to be the perfect guardian by ballis which is thematically accurate to what Margulis was, nurturing with her healing but also weilding the power of the sun which can be seen as symbolic for warmth and life. Additionally you Aquire wisp from the ropolyst fight. A mission where natah explains her background and you fight a sentient. I think that thematically makes alot of sense.

This is true, but aside from the above note, Wisps abilities don't really map onto the kind of person Margulis was. Like. Yes the sun can be symbolic for warmth and light, but that is very much not the symbolism associated with firing a solar flare at somebody. Wisp is also cheeky and playful, whereas Margulis is typically described as quite a serious person.

17 minutes ago, SirPaladin555 said:

Secondly voruna, based on the fact voruna was described in her story as fiercely protective of the kids on Lua attacking anybody who tried to harm them including the orokin, and continued guarding the children after the the fact even when it went into the void. This gets into speculation but voruna doesn't seem to have an operator or at least not a normal one given her strong instincts and the fact she continued functioning even after all the other warframes stopped functioning at least until the start of the game when warframes re-awaken.

I believe the implication of a Warframe carrying a child onto their orbiter upon Lua is that the child is Voruna's Operator. It's also noted that as soon as the child started to awaken and stir, Voruna staggered - implying the transference signal being interrupted. Also, many Tenno have been noted throughout the lore to be sympathetic towards children, especially the abused - both Nezha and Ash's Leverians reference them going out of their way to protect children, as does Yareli's lore. It makes sense given that they do so, since they are themselves abused children.

There's also quite a few stories of Warframes hunting Orokin or operating post-Orokin, so they didn't switch off immediately. Lotus sent them to sleep after the Orokin were destroyed entirely.

[SirPaladin555]

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Unfortunately, in so far as we know, Margulis faced the Jade Light - which is effectively instantaneous, absolute disintegration, obliterating even the Oro (which. Is now officially canon. Not quite sure how I feel about that) so that the being may never revive from the dead again. They did this because Margulis directly opposed them, and spoke against them, an act of apostasy and blasphemy. In other words, she very publically questioned their leadership and position to lead. She was dangerous and a problem, and they wanted her dealt with. Permanently.

Now, it's not Impossible that Margulis got teleported out before this happened, yes, but given that Ballas was in charge of the Warframe Project, and seems to have had first design dibs and choice of the people transformed into the initial frames, it's pretty unlikely that he'd have missed his lady 'love' that he's incredibly obsessed over having control of being transformed into something he has absolute control over.

 

Just to add notes:

No, this isn't Ember's backstory. The story is a tangentially-related hint to the existence of the Operators. Canonically, this event most likely precedes the modern Warframe project, and certainly does before the Zariman kids went anywhere near the Warframes. I mean, the person in the story is very clearly not 'the best', which most Warframes were formed from warriors, archimedians and others of exceptional skill (which, granted, Margulis probably counted as, but as mentioned, apostasy)

This is true, but aside from the above note, Wisps abilities don't really map onto the kind of person Margulis was. Like. Yes the sun can be symbolic for warmth and light, but that is very much not the symbolism associated with firing a solar flare at somebody. Wisp is also cheeky and playful, whereas Margulis is typically described as quite a serious person.

I believe the implication of a Warframe carrying a child onto their orbiter upon Lua is that the child is Voruna's Operator. It's also noted that as soon as the child started to awaken and stir, Voruna staggered - implying the transference signal being interrupted. Also, many Tenno have been noted throughout the lore to be sympathetic towards children, especially the abused - both Nezha and Ash's Leverians reference them going out of their way to protect children, as does Yareli's lore. It makes sense given that they do so, since they are themselves abused children.

There's also quite a few stories of Warframes hunting Orokin or operating post-Orokin, so they didn't switch off immediately. Lotus sent them to sleep after the Orokin were destroyed entirely.

thank you for the corrections I was mostly going off of memory so I was sure I got a few things wrong. And thank you for reminding me that she was sentenced to death by the jade light.

In either case for wisp you are correct its not a perfect one to one comparison,  and the solar flare ability is litterly blasting the sun at enemies,  but I still figured it was worth mentioning as the sun is symbolic of alot of things.

And voruna I admit the evidence isn't strong for, mostly circumstantial,  and you are correct many warframes did protect kids , I just thought voruna was notable given her job was choosen to protect the kids on lua.

[Loza03]

16 minutes ago, SirPaladin555 said:

And voruna I admit the evidence isn't strong for, mostly circumstantial,  and you are correct many warframes did protect kids , I just thought voruna was notable given her job was choosen to protect the kids on lua.

I'm sorry to be the um ackchually guy again, but Voruna's job was to protect everyone at the Continuity ceremony from void monsters. Which includes the Yuvan, but her job wasn't in particular to protect children - especially since Yuvan are sacrificed as a part of the process. Their only importance, as far as the Orokin are involved, is to be used up.

 

Yeah, generally speaking, if the Orokin are involved and there's a wholesome interpretation, assume it is the furthest possible one from that. 

[nerfinator6]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Unfortunately, in so far as we know, Margulis faced the Jade Light - which is effectively instantaneous, absolute disintegration, obliterating even the Oro (which. Is now officially canon. Not quite sure how I feel about that)

DE wrote it, it's always been canon.

[Duality52]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Unfortunately, in so far as we know, Margulis faced the Jade Light - which is effectively instantaneous, absolute disintegration, obliterating even the Oro (which. Is now officially canon. Not quite sure how I feel about that) so that the being may never revive from the dead again

Not likely, but Yonta's scenario shows it's possible since she was on board the Zariman during the Void Jump. Even though she used the Jade Light on herself, she was brought back as a Void Ghost along with the other Holdfasts.

Another funny part is that Ballas is still reeling from Margulis's death, and sought to create Khora Prime in honor of her.

Quote

None of them truly understands how much I lost, when I lost her. Nor by what subtle art my dead love now lives, within another's gleaming skull.

So tonight, we shall celebrate. In her honor, and mine, I shall unveil a new creation, a harmony of mistress... and monster.

An apex predator, a deathless companion. Unsurpassed. Blood-raw in whip, claw and fang.

Khora.

 

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, Duality52 said:

Not likely, but Yonta's scenario shows it's possible since she was on board the Zariman during the Void Jump. Even though she used the Jade Light on herself, she was brought back as a Void Ghost along with the other Holdfasts.

Another funny part is that Ballas is still reeling from Margulis's death, and sought to create Khora Prime in honor of her.

 

The Holdfasts aren't revivals, they're Conceptual Embodiments. While they are technically alive, they cannot sustain themselves on their own energy. We (the player's Operator) provide the energy that sustains them, merely by our presence.

I think a lot of people get confused about them being revived due to a general lack of paying attention, and one of Quinn's quotes literally using the word "revive" when you interact with him to go get your bounties (so you hear this quote all the time). However, he's referring to their Conceptual Embodiments being revived, not their human selves that died during the Zariman incident.

Yonta even outright states that they're dead and gone, but apparently that doesn't stop people from misunderstanding the lore...

Edited December 28, 2023 by Hexerin

[(PSN)robotwars7]

nope, she dead, as in, perma dead: the only "version" of her that lives is Lotus, who is actually just a Sentient Mimic named Natah that Ballas twisted into Margulis' likeness, but it's just a façade, nothing more; that's why after New War we can make Lotus either embrace this identity (pick OG Lotus or New Lotus), or discard it (Pick Natah).

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 16 horas, Loza03 dijo:

obliterating even the Oro

Who or what is Oro?

[rapt0rman]

17 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Who or what is Oro?

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Oro A pvp gameplay mechanic, but also essentially a soul.

[Duality52]

12 hours ago, Hexerin said:

The Holdfasts aren't revivals, they're Conceptual Embodiments. While they are technically alive, they cannot sustain themselves on their own energy. We (the player's Operator) provide the energy that sustains them, merely by our presence.

While true, recall and remember that conceptual embodiment didn't exist as a term in Warframe until the Seven Crimes of Kullervo (June 2022), which is a little over a year after Angels of the Zariman (April 2021). The latter had Yonta and the Holdfasts made references, but didn't directly state the term until a Zariman tablet in Duviri directly defined the term.

Admittedly though, it was my part on how easy it was to overlook the concept on how it was applied retroactively to a large chunk of the game's events before the Zariman quest.

[TARINunit9]

18 hours ago, Loza03 said:

obliterating even the Oro (which. Is now officially canon. Not quite sure how I feel about that)

It's been canon for years now. Strictly speaking since at least 2015 when Steve talked about it in Devstream 52 (showing off Conclave and Tubemen of Regor)

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, SirPaladin555 said:

Ember. Embers background is she was an adult on the zariman that protected the children as the other adults went mad, however she isn't Margulis as the name was actually given in her story though I confess I forget what it is off the top of my head.

That story isnt even about an adult from the Zariman. That is one of the people that were part of the rescue crew sent to Zariman after it emerged from the void. One of the investigators.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

14 hours ago, Duality52 said:

Not likely, but Yonta's scenario shows it's possible since she was on board the Zariman during the Void Jump. Even though she used the Jade Light on herself, she was brought back as a Void Ghost along with the other Holdfasts.

Not likely, you're confusing copies with the originals. No adults survived the Zariman.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

19 hours ago, SirPaladin555 said:

 

So if she was turned into a warframe what warframe would she be turned into? Well we can safely rule out any male warframe for obvious reasons, leaving just the female warframes. 

So based on the warframes stories I have a few possible theories. But I'll start with the one that I don't think is likely.

 

If she did become a Warframe, it would be a new one (that would probably also be super unique one obtained from a major quest like Excalibur Umbra). 

And that wouldn't even mean she'd be playable either, they could just give her lotus treatment or something.

However, it's unlikely that we'll ever see her ingame since even Ballas used Lotus to replace her and Lotus (optionally) believes that she is a continuation of Margulis's consciousness. If Margulis was still out there and wasn't the Lotus then Ballas would have done something about that by now.

Edited December 28, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[Duality52]

28 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Not likely, you're confusing copies with the originals. No adults survived the Zariman.

As discussed above, it's the Void's cruel humor of conceptual embodiment. Where one's ideas becomes real thanks to the Void. It was even enough that the Holdfasts retain enough of their memories of how they died in their ill-fated attempt of redemption.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Duality52 said:

While true, recall and remember that conceptual embodiment didn't exist as a term in Warframe until the Seven Crimes of Kullervo (June 2022), which is a little over a year after Angels of the Zariman (April 2021).

I am 99% sure Yonta and the player character use the term "conceptual embodiment" during the 2021 quest. Hang on let me check...

...yes, the player character uses it. It absolutely existed before Kullervo

That all being said, the Holdfasts are still "coded" as ghosts. They might have a fancy in-lore term that can be studied with empiricism and experiments, but as far as the player needs to be concerned they're undead ghosts. This is relevant because they all discuss memories that the player character couldn't possibly know about on their own. A Conceptual Embodiment might be our creation to an extent, but it brings its original memories back from the dead

[(XBOX)Rez090]

6 hours ago, Duality52 said:

As discussed above, it's the Void's cruel humor of conceptual embodiment. Where one's ideas becomes real thanks to the Void. It was even enough that the Holdfasts retain enough of their memories of how they died in their ill-fated attempt of redemption.

So just a long-winded and fancy-schmancy way to say "copy". Literally, the Holdfasts are just straight up copies.

[Duality52]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

...yes, the player character uses it. It absolutely existed before Kullervo

Quote

•  
• Operator: "Yeah, we covered Conceptual Embodiment in T.A." 
• Drifter: "Yeah, we covered Conceptual Embodiment in T.A." 

Yep, that was unfortunate on my end. Reception with the quest isn't as stellar as Whispers in the Wall, making it hard for some topics during Angels of the Zariman to resonate with the player.

[SirPaladin555]

On 2023-12-28 at 5:08 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

nope, she dead, as in, perma dead: the only "version" of her that lives is Lotus, who is actually just a Sentient Mimic named Natah that Ballas twisted into Margulis' likeness, but it's just a façade, nothing more; that's why after New War we can make Lotus either embrace this identity (pick OG Lotus or New Lotus), or discard it (Pick Natah).

Well thanks for clarifying that she's dead , though in my post I did already mention lotus/Natah is different than Margulis 

[Aruquae]

On 2023-12-27 at 6:43 PM, Loza03 said:

Unfortunately, in so far as we know, Margulis faced the Jade Light - which is effectively instantaneous, absolute disintegration, obliterating even the Oro (which. Is now officially canon. Not quite sure how I feel about that) so that the being may never revive from the dead again. They did this because Margulis directly opposed them, and spoke against them, an act of apostasy and blasphemy. In other words, she very publically questioned their leadership and position to lead. She was dangerous and a problem, and they wanted her dealt with. Permanently.

Now, it's not Impossible that Margulis got teleported out before this happened, yes, but given that Ballas was in charge of the Warframe Project, and seems to have had first design dibs and choice of the people transformed into the initial frames, it's pretty unlikely that he'd have missed his lady 'love' that he's incredibly obsessed over having control of being transformed into something he has absolute control over.

 

Just to add notes:

No, this isn't Ember's backstory. The story is a tangentially-related hint to the existence of the Operators. Canonically, this event most likely precedes the modern Warframe project, and certainly does before the Zariman kids went anywhere near the Warframes. I mean, the person in the story is very clearly not 'the best', which most Warframes were formed from warriors, archimedians and others of exceptional skill (which, granted, Margulis probably counted as, but as mentioned, apostasy)

This is true, but aside from the above note, Wisps abilities don't really map onto the kind of person Margulis was. Like. Yes the sun can be symbolic for warmth and light, but that is very much not the symbolism associated with firing a solar flare at somebody. Wisp is also cheeky and playful, whereas Margulis is typically described as quite a serious person.

I believe the implication of a Warframe carrying a child onto their orbiter upon Lua is that the child is Voruna's Operator. It's also noted that as soon as the child started to awaken and stir, Voruna staggered - implying the transference signal being interrupted. Also, many Tenno have been noted throughout the lore to be sympathetic towards children, especially the abused - both Nezha and Ash's Leverians reference them going out of their way to protect children, as does Yareli's lore. It makes sense given that they do so, since they are themselves abused children.

There's also quite a few stories of Warframes hunting Orokin or operating post-Orokin, so they didn't switch off immediately. Lotus sent them to sleep after the Orokin were destroyed entirely.

The only candidate I can think of would be Khora. Her Prime Trailer really emphasizes Margulis. 

Calling it right now, Margulis returning due to some eternity bs

Why? Idk the void or something 

Edited January 5 by Aruquae
Yes