What warframes need a rework?

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Spaghetti code would be my guess.

 

I mean it was more this thing they did out of theme with her kit just to give her armor strip cuz that's what all the cool kids use.

They tried to "meta" her with damage buffs and armor strip which she never needed. She only ever needed the right weapons.
So I figure if they wana go off script with Psychic Bolts. Why not have it temporarily remove Overguard so she can CC them.

Like Tilts mentioned there's multiple effects that work through Overguard. Large AoE effects even, like Rhino Stomp.
It's all just such a mess and I don't get what they're trying to do with these patchwork changes.

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I recall an event years back were enemies had a Tonkor and the community flipped out. Now I see Shield Lancers with it all the time.
That's an awful enemy design. You can't hear or see it fire. Just the impact. Scorchers were another one and they're all over now too.

I don't think this is actually related to frame balance, but I agree with you: Tonkor Shield Lancers are a godawful design for exactly those reasons. Bombards too actually, and I don't see ANYONE bring it up

"Scorchers" aren't a thing, did you mean Napalms or Scorches? Napalms are slightly better because at least you can see their projectiles, but it's only "better" by degrees

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

23 hours ago, quxier said:

Or you can just slap Equilibrum and melee enemies. Headshots requires some aiming (even minimal) but melee is much easier.

This is true, but it lacks some team support since it only applies to yourself and anyone else who happens to run Equilibrium.

To be honest if I wanted team support I would use something else. It's just too much work for too little gain. It's fine if you like that style but Imho headshoting is not great with her ability.

32 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

But I think it's just that people generally get the impression that Voruna is a melee frame, when she can actually be more versatile than that.

She has just most melee oriented buff/attacks. Her first buff melees. 3rd has easier to do melees. 4th is just melee. 2nd is neutral.

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

19 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

Caliban should be priority, followed by Inaros, Banshee, Nyx and Loki. 

Don't think he needs a full-on rework, just tweaking how his element infusion works so it feels less clunky to use.

Voruna passive setup for his elements would be best.

Holding a single button applies that element and it stay permanently.

Holding another single element replaces the current element with that.

Holding two elements at once replaces current element with whatever combined element the two held buttons would combine.

Simple and easy on the fly applications without a need to constantly re-infuse before casts.

9 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Voruna passive setup for his elements would be best.

Holding a single button applies that element and it stay permanently.

Holding another single element replaces the current element with that.

Holding two elements at once replaces current element with whatever combined element the two held buttons would combine.

Simple and easy on the fly applications without a need to constantly re-infuse before casts.

Yeah, this would improve Lavos' gameplay immensely. 

If you play with pre-defined elements. If you want to change it would be horrible. That would be great for augment. That kind of augment we need (that changes how we play not simply add X thing).

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

On 2024-02-10 at 3:03 AM, Aldain said:

Why Inaros was the priority before any of these three I'll never know, at least Inaros was moderately tanky and had pocket sand...

Because Inaros functionally has ZERO abilities. Even Pocket Sand has fallen off with Overguard now being a thing. Inaros isn't a frame, he's a walking health bar. That is far more unhealthy than Loki who mostly functions in older content most of the time.

Limbo had it worse with Overguard. 1st cannot Banish enemies. Enemies can enter Catasis (2nd + 4th). 3rd probably doesn't work. He is no longer immortal in the Rift. You can make him work but it's like finding bugs, exploits and other way to make stuff works.

 

[Xzorn]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

"Scorchers" aren't a thing, did you mean Napalms or Scorches? Napalms are slightly better because at least you can see their projectiles, but it's only "better" by degrees

 

Yes, Scorches. Flame Thrower guys. DE buffed Ignis and the forums were flooded with funny death pics.

Napalms are okay now. They used to have a 14m radius of impact that bypassed walls and objects.  This was the case even after they fixed Bombard radial damage to be blocked by walls and objects. They were the worse designed enemy in the game at the time. They even fudged the original radius in the patch notes.

Spoiler

-Mid 2018

• Reduced explosion radius from 10m to 4m.
• Reduced lifetime of fire explosion FX from 10s to 7s.
• Added a damage element to those fire FX - Minor Heat damage and Heat proc if touched.
• Fixed flame trail behind rocket to persist for life of projectile (trail was disappearing after 5s of flight time, making it very hard to see the Napalm).

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

i mean not having to imbue elements after every cast wont change too drastically his mechanics, it's still there. just that if you want to use the same element in a row you dont have to keep casting.

if you're swapping between multiple elements this shouldn't affect you since it'll remain the same for the most part. you are still able to swap elements on the fly. 

Oh, I understood what you meant.
I'm telling you that you have a whole 3 slots for Primaries, Secondaries, and melee weapons capable of holding elemental combinations for that...

Your suggestion completely removes the function of the elemental effect of the base abilities which would actually be a drastic change in mechanics if all I wanted was to make random use of select ability's element.

For example, If I am using a setup with a gimmick giving me a damage boost for using heat damage I would then either lose it/ lose damage, or lose the ability to combine elements altogether.

Having Lavos' mechanic changed because you find having to press the corresponding buttons to get the combination you want clunky is moreso a sign of the frame being a bad fit for your preferences than a need for improvement or update.

At most, your suggestion would be best employed as an augment encouraging you to make needful tradeoffs to get what you want.

Alternately, for those with access issues (carpel tunnel, missing digits, etc) who feel their gameplay is being impacted, a meaningful conversation with Warframe Support is probably the better route to go as there are keyboards and controllers with base hotkey functions for combos and determining if those are allowed (I don't know if that applies as 3rd party software and we are literally talking about ~6 hotkey number combinations.

 

[Skoomaseller]

7 hours ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

Oh, I understood what you meant.
I'm telling you that you have a whole 3 slots for Primaries, Secondaries, and melee weapons capable of holding elemental combinations for that...

Your suggestion completely removes the function of the elemental effect of the base abilities which would actually be a drastic change in mechanics if all I wanted was to make random use of select ability's element.

For example, If I am using a setup with a gimmick giving me a damage boost for using heat damage I would then either lose it/ lose damage, or lose the ability to combine elements altogether.

Having Lavos' mechanic changed because you find having to press the corresponding buttons to get the combination you want clunky is moreso a sign of the frame being a bad fit for your preferences than a need for improvement or update.

At most, your suggestion would be best employed as an augment encouraging you to make needful tradeoffs to get what you want.

Alternately, for those with access issues (carpel tunnel, missing digits, etc) who feel their gameplay is being impacted, a meaningful conversation with Warframe Support is probably the better route to go as there are keyboards and controllers with base hotkey functions for combos and determining if those are allowed (I don't know if that applies as 3rd party software and we are literally talking about ~6 hotkey number combinations.

👍🏽 understood. 

Edited February 11 by Skoomaseller

[Darkbring]

On 2024-02-10 at 7:55 AM, PoppyPrince said:

Personally i wouldn't mind to even spare niche frames, for example, melee-oriented ones: Valkyr/Garuda/Atlas, some people just love punching stuff.
But some others (in my humble opinion) can be considered obsolete. Like this ones:
1) Nyx - She was supposed to be CC queen, but look where are we now. All her kit looks either bleak or "ok, but we have better analogues".
2) Chroma - Helminth material. End of story.
3) Inaros - Ok, devs announced a rework for him, he is spared from a trash bin, yet.
4) Gara - On a paper: mighty frame with good survivability and InSaNe damage. In reality: i saw my last Gara, like, a year ago? May be even 2 years. I don't say she is weak, i ask where are Garas?
5) Banshee - The biggest dmg amp haver in the game…how often do you see her, honestly?
6) Ivara - a joke. Her 2 is insanely niche, 1 and 3 meet the famous "meh, there are much better analogues". Yes, her bow can 1shot 180lvl CHGs with SP modifiers, but, cmon, just take bramma at this point.
7) Styanax - while having pretty comfy kit, he offers nothign special or flashy. Understandably fogotten.
8) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. 
9) Culervo - He is borderline ok, since he is a niche for…heavy attack enjoyers??? Seen any?
10) Kaliban - honestly, a surprise for me. Dude offers armor/shield strip and dmg vulnerability in ONE kit (warframes are usually given 1 of these 2), moreover this can go further beyond with Helminth, but he seems completely forgotten.

Hydroid rework was majestic (now fairly my main) and i think these frames deserve Hydroid treatment.

 TL;DR - My main point isn't about their strength. My main point is: how often do you even see these frames?
https://www.warframe.com/ru/2023stats
As you can see, most of mentioned frames are placed in second half of these stats. I agree not to touch ~newborn frames since they didn't get their true place yet.

 

Styanax. Voruna, Kullervo and Caliban don't need a rework, they're fine. At best Voruna could use a tweak to her 4 so that she would move on all fours all the time. Kullervo doesn't need heavy attacks at all, he can kill whole maps with guns just fine. Caliban's 1 may as well not exist and his 2 is a waste of emergy, but his 3 and 4 are just fine. Rework for Caliban would be nice, but he doesn't NEED it, unlike Nyx who doesn't have a single good ability. Her 1 is trash that is more useful on Revenant. Her 2 is good when it works as you want it to, but it hits a limited amount of targets and you have no control over which targets it will hit and it can hit the same target twice, so most of the time it's a waste of energy. Her 3 is just an AoE radiation proc, it costs an arm and a leg to cast, and you can't recast it even if new enemies arrive. The augment for her 3 is just a bandaid for being unable to recast it. Guess what, Qorvex's 1 does literally the same thing, but better. Her 4 is trash with or without an augments. After Inaros is done, Nyx, Frost, Ember and Oberon, in that order, are the warframes that actually need a rework.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

I do understand that you and , clearly, @SneakyErvin feel the frame is clunky but would posit that its' moreso a sign that the frame isn't for you since you don't enjoy the mechanic in play.

Except he is my most used frame. Protea shows slightly higher use, but that is because she has been used quite a bit while also being my specter. So I enjoy his mechanics, but there is no reason to have to re-imbue over and over. It would be a simple QoL change.

10 hours ago, quxier said:

If you play with pre-defined elements. If you want to change it would be horrible. That would be great for augment. That kind of augment we need (that changes how we play not simply add X thing).

How would it be horrible if you want to change? You could change all you like with zero intrruption since whatever you pick would override what you currently have. It would make it far smoother than it is now.

8 hours ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

Oh, I understood what you meant.
I'm telling you that you have a whole 3 slots for Primaries, Secondaries, and melee weapons capable of holding elemental combinations for that...

Your suggestion completely removes the function of the elemental effect of the base abilities which would actually be a drastic change in mechanics if all I wanted was to make random use of select ability's element.

For example, If I am using a setup with a gimmick giving me a damage boost for using heat damage I would then either lose it/ lose damage, or lose the ability to combine elements altogether.

Having Lavos' mechanic changed because you find having to press the corresponding buttons to get the combination you want clunky is moreso a sign of the frame being a bad fit for your preferences than a need for improvement or update.

At most, your suggestion would be best employed as an augment encouraging you to make needful tradeoffs to get what you want.

Alternately, for those with access issues (carpel tunnel, missing digits, etc) who feel their gameplay is being impacted, a meaningful conversation with Warframe Support is probably the better route to go as there are keyboards and controllers with base hotkey functions for combos and determining if those are allowed (I don't know if that applies as 3rd party software and we are literally talking about ~6 hotkey number combinations.

No idea how you arrive to any of that. Nothing would get removed except the need to imbue before every cast. Any interaction you use now would still be 100% intact and possible since you'd be able to combine on the fly just as you do now, the only difference is the element stays after a cast if you want to use the same element again. So how your weapons fit into this I have no clue about, or how your "gimmick" setup would be impacted or change.

It would simply remove 1 interaction while leaving every option still there.

Edited February 11 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)Sentiel]

14 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

Given Nyx is my highest in mission time and Chroma is my 3rd. I could give it a try but I feel like few people care about other's rework ideas.

Nyx is my second highest used Warframe, right after Volt. I've proposed a few rework ideas and read everything Nyx and Volt related I came across. Most of the reworks are short sighted or outright immature. If DE would open a public suggestion thread, like they did now with Mirage, I'd put maximum effort into it but it otherwise feels like a waste of time. Regardless, I would be happy to read yours.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except he is my most used frame. Protea shows slightly higher use, but that is because she has been used quite a bit while also being my specter. So I enjoy his mechanics, but there is no reason to have to re-imbue over and over. It would be a simple QoL change.

Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to need to re-imbue repeatedly. 
This has been covered in previous posts on this page of the thread by @quxier and myself.

That said, I see serious value in this idea used as an Augment or as a potential keybind or hotkey config (should DE allow such)

5 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

👍🏽 understood. 

I appreciate you for understanding 🙏🏿

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to need to re-imbue repeatedly. 
This has been covered in previous posts on this page of the thread by @quxier and myself.

That said, I see serious value in this idea used as an Augment or as a potential keybind or hotkey config (should DE allow such)

I appreciate you for understanding 🙏🏿

I've seen zero good reasons. I've seen a bunch of comments likely not really getting the idea presented.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

11 hours ago, quxier said:

If you play with pre-defined elements. If you want to change it would be horrible. That would be great for augment. That kind of augment we need (that changes how we play not simply add X thing).

How would it be horrible if you want to change? You could change all you like with zero intrruption since whatever you pick would override what you currently have. It would make it far smoother than it is now.

Not exactly.

Now I do this:

- tap (tap) to pick elements > hold to cast an ability

However after this change:

Quote

Holding two elements at once replaces current element with whatever combined element the two held buttons would combine.

I would have to press 2 keys at the same time. Maybe horrible were too big word but I still doesn't like it. There would be probably cases where I just press 1 key too early or something making me pick wrong element. Maybe I'm overreacting. Still, it would be great augment.

[Skoomaseller]

1 hour ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to need to re-imbue repeatedly. 
This has been covered in previous posts on this page of the thread by @quxier and myself.

That said, I see serious value in this idea used as an Augment or as a potential keybind or hotkey config (should DE allow such)

I appreciate you for understanding 🙏🏿

that being said though, I'm sure there is a way to make imbuing less... carpal tunnel inducing, without having to introduce an augment for it. not a whole rework but maybe a bit of an adjustment. 

like i get it, you may want to use 1 of Lavos' abilities without imbuing which probably justifies the existence of the imbued element being lost upon cast which necessitates re-imbuing, but surely you Lavos players feel this to be at the very least a bit clunky. 

@SneakyErvin makes a great point and it's what i mentioned earlier as well. it's not like the option of using just the ability's base element would be lost if you didn't have to re-imbue after every cast.

for example, if you wanted to just use the ability with no element imbued, just the base element of that ability, DE could make it so re-imbuing with the current input element removes it, leaving a blank (that is, no element imbued). it is effectively the same as it is today, which would satisfy players who just want to use the same element in a row, and those who don't. 

i am not a lavos player unfortunately, i am just the cutest yareli main around. this is just my 2 creds. 

Edited February 11 by Skoomaseller

[SneakyErvin]

13 minutes ago, quxier said:

Not exactly.

Now I do this:

- tap (tap) to pick elements > hold to cast an ability

However after this change:

I would have to press 2 keys at the same time. Maybe horrible were too big word but I still doesn't like it. There would be probably cases where I just press 1 key too early or something making me pick wrong element. Maybe I'm overreacting. Still, it would be great augment.

Combining elements is already supported as a double tap or the default double hold (depending on your setting in game) interaction. And with the change proposed you could just do the command again if you butterfinger it since whatever you currently have active would be replaced with the new single or combined element of your choice. As it currently works you are stuck with your imbues until an ability is used. So this change would add 2 QoL parts to his mixer.

[Rakosta_Kai]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I've seen zero good reasons. I've seen a bunch of comments likely not really getting the idea presented.

Kindly answer a question for me based on your proffered idea:

On Lavos,  if I were to set a radiation combo, cast an ability and the next ability I casted was Ophidian's Bite. 
What element would it be using for that Ophidian's Bite?

 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Rakosta_Kai said:

Kindly answer a question for me based on your proffered idea:

On Lavos,  if I were to set a radiation combo, cast an ability and the next ability I casted was Ophidian's Bite. 
What element would it be using for that Ophidian's Bite?

 

It would use radiation since imbues would not be consumed by abilities.

If you wanted something else on Bite you'd do like now and combine a new element before the Bite cast which would replace radiation.

1. Imbue radiation.

2. Cast skill.

3a. Cast Bite with radiation imbue.

3b. Imbue other element for Bite.

4. Cast Bite with new element.

5. Use option 3a or 3b+4 for next skill.

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It would use radiation since imbues would not be consumed by abilities.

If you wanted something else on Bite you'd do like now and combine a new element before the Bite cast which would replace radiation.

1. Imbue radiation.

2. Cast skill.

3a. Cast Bite with radiation imbue.

3b. Imbue other element for Bite.

4. Cast Bite with new element.

5. Use option 3a or 3b+4 for next skill.

Provided that the imbuement is applied in the exact same manner as it is now ( tacked on as an additional but separate effect to the existing element) I can't say the idea is bad.

I need to find some coffee this morning as I read this wrong.

My apologies @Skoomaseller. Thanks for your kind forbearance. 
 

[Rawbeard]

which ever frame was just reworked but not the way I would have reworked it, making it literally the worst thing in the history of humanity. 

[SneakyErvin]

35 minutes ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

Provided that the imbuement is applied in the exact same manner as it is now ( tacked on as an additional but separate effect to the existing element) I can't say the idea is bad.

I need to find some coffee this morning as I read this wrong.

My apologies @Skoomaseller. Thanks for your kind forbearance. 
 

Yeah everything would work the same as now regarding how imbues work with the skill elements. Add heat imbue and Bite would deal Toxin+Heat etc. And the bonus would be that this system would allow you to swap elements when already imbued, so you wouldnt be limited to emptying the mixer with a skill or be limited to turning a single element into a combined one as the only options. 

Got Heat imbued but want Toxin? Trigger the Bite imbue and you will end up with toxin. Want corrosive instead of that heat, just trigger 1+3 to replace the heat with corrosive.

They could also do it more as a "toggle" to cover what @quxiersaid, that they dont often or at all use the double tap or double hold when combining. So first element imbued would mix with the second, then the third would switch to a single if only one tap/hold is used at a time. If double tapping/holding is used it would just replace the curreny imbue with the combination held, which would then be replaced with either the next single or double tap/hold command.

So if you have heat, taping toxin would create gas, tapping toxin again would replace gas with toxin, then if tapping electric it would combine with toxin into corrosive, tapping electric again would replace corrosive with electric, then tapping toxin+cold at the same time would replace electric with viral and so on.

edit: In the end all I really want is more pinpoint control of the mixing done by the master alchemist. 🙂

Edited February 11 by SneakyErvin

[Ksape9901]

On 2024-02-09 at 4:55 PM, PoppyPrince said:

Personally i wouldn't mind to even spare niche frames, for example, melee-oriented ones: Valkyr/Garuda/Atlas, some people just love punching stuff.
But some others (in my humble opinion) can be considered obsolete. Like this ones:
1) Nyx - She was supposed to be CC queen, but look where are we now. All her kit looks either bleak or "ok, but we have better analogues".
2) Chroma - Helminth material. End of story.
3) Inaros - Ok, devs announced a rework for him, he is spared from a trash bin, yet.
4) Gara - On a paper: mighty frame with good survivability and InSaNe damage. In reality: i saw my last Gara, like, a year ago? May be even 2 years. I don't say she is weak, i ask where are Garas?
5) Banshee - The biggest dmg amp haver in the game…how often do you see her, honestly?
6) Ivara - a joke. Her 2 is insanely niche, 1 and 3 meet the famous "meh, there are much better analogues". Yes, her bow can 1shot 180lvl CHGs with SP modifiers, but, cmon, just take bramma at this point.
7) Styanax - while having pretty comfy kit, he offers nothign special or flashy. Understandably fogotten.
8) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. 
9) Culervo - He is borderline ok, since he is a niche for…heavy attack enjoyers??? Seen any?
10) Kaliban - honestly, a surprise for me. Dude offers armor/shield strip and dmg vulnerability in ONE kit (warframes are usually given 1 of these 2), moreover this can go further beyond with Helminth, but he seems completely forgotten.

Hydroid rework was majestic (now fairly my main) and i think these frames deserve Hydroid treatment.

 TL;DR - My main point isn't about their strength. My main point is: how often do you even see these frames?
https://www.warframe.com/ru/2023stats
As you can see, most of mentioned frames are placed in second half of these stats. I agree not to touch ~newborn frames since they didn't get their true place yet.

So... two things.  In terms of use, players will always gravitate to the easiest option.  It's why Inaros was used for a while and was very popular, he just lived.  Now that there are easier options you don't see him as much.  It's also why frames that require stat sticks (Gara, Atlas, etc) are seen far less often.  Also some frames just don't do as well in group context (they're more fun solo when not everyone is one shotting rooms).  Now, onto your list:

1. Nyx: Completely agree.

2. Chroma: Profit taker frame... it's not like he doesn't have damage, it's just there's so many better options.

3. Inaros: Lazy frame... not sure how much the rework will really change over using him as a health tank.

4. Gara: Requires a stat stick for high lvl play, and you're competing for room clears.  Maybe rework things so stat sticks aren't necessary?

5. Banshee: Actually a good frame, but requires work to use and is squishy.  Doesn't play well with others.

6. Ivara: More of a solo frame.  In a team match up won't be used much, which is why you don't see her too often.

7. Styanax: ....What?  You give your squad energy, shields, and overguard.  He's great overall.  But once again, if you're one shotting rooms, why would you take him?

8. Voruna: .... Easy lvl cap frame... she's not used by a few people because they seem obsessed with making her 4 work.  Ignore it and she's great at any lvl.  Might be a misunderstanding and trying to get her 4 to be used heavily.  If you replace it all of a sudden you can clear rooms at lower lvls and top damage vs nuke weapons.

9. Kullervo: I mean... strength wise he's amazing.  His main issue is he requires the right weapon, which is fine as that's not a stat stick, but he also requires for 2 abilities to be used to completely wipe a room (3 + 1).  In that time someone will most likely already blow up the room on quick missions.  Otherwise his oerguard is plenty to live and his damage is insane... 

10. Caliban: Yeah, this is like Nyx.

[Numerounius]

On 2024-02-10 at 12:37 AM, Xzorn said:

 

What outclasses Chroma as a brawling weapon master? It's not the first time I've read this. Makes me wonder how players are building him.

Mine is just shy of 100k eHP before Adaptation with 944% Damage, being roughly x5. Could be more if I replaced base damage with Faction mods and such. Slot Nourish so you can use Arcane Deflection and remove Bleeds being his biggest weakness then you have very high HP and Energy regen as sources of recovery.

If something like a Nidus is nice enough to Link Chroma at the start of the mission Vex snap shots around 2200% Armor and 1700% damage.

I don't think outclass was the right word for me to use. Both of them def has their specialties that allows them to shine like you said.

I think just think that people will point out how there will be five other frames you can use before thinking about taking Chroma that uses similar abilities into a mission rather than looking at Chroma with how good his own abilities are. Like you said, still has amazing tanking capabilities, able to produce a huge dmg boost etc. As for Nyx, able to shield strip, 100% invulnerability, always online passive that indirectly increases tanking, able to create minions.

[ZiIIion]

Chroma's not a bad frame, just needs a QoL touch-up since he has a rather dated way of building up his abilities.

Caliban, Inaros, Lavos, and Nyx desperately need some love to stay competitive with other frames.

[Berzerkules]

11 hours ago, Ksape9901 said:

8. Voruna: .... Easy lvl cap frame... she's not used by a few people because they seem obsessed with making her 4 work.  Ignore it and she's great at any lvl.  Might be a misunderstanding and trying to get her 4 to be used heavily.  If you replace it all of a sudden you can clear rooms at lower lvls and top damage vs nuke weapons.

Voruna is a scary good frame. Her 4 is a solid meh but I dare anyone to name a frame with 4 great abilities.

Pair her with some sort of grouping like nautilus + manifold bond and argonak + gas dagger and her kps average is insane. Like 20+ enemies just poof in a split second. I found the novelty wore off fairly quick but but she's a legit frame. 

 

More on topic to the thread I would like to see Mirage get some work done. 

Hall of mirrors is one of my favorite abilities in the game(i wish it was her subsume) but to make it really shine you'll have to use hall of malevolence and total eclipse. 

Sleight of hand needs an augment to work against lower lvl enemies. It's great for low lvl nuke but dmg falls off pretty quick last time i tried. 

Eclipse is hit or miss and always has been. DE should really just make tap/hold or cycle option for this ability so it reliably gives the buff you desire and not at some random percentage of modded values. 

Prism is kinda meh imo. You can make it work if you meet specific scenarios but that base casting speed is a complete turn off for me. It just flies away from you unless you use an augment but every other ability already wants an augment slot. 

Mirage is soooo close to being a really cool frame that could work it's way into my regular rotation but every ability irks me in some way. 

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

On 2024-02-09 at 6:55 PM, PoppyPrince said:

Personally i wouldn't mind to even spare niche frames, for example, melee-oriented ones: Valkyr/Garuda/Atlas, some people just love punching stuff.
But some others (in my humble opinion) can be considered obsolete. Like this ones:
1) Nyx - She was supposed to be CC queen, but look where are we now. All her kit looks either bleak or "ok, but we have better analogues".
2) Chroma - Helminth material. End of story.
3) Inaros - Ok, devs announced a rework for him, he is spared from a trash bin, yet.
4) Gara - On a paper: mighty frame with good survivability and InSaNe damage. In reality: i saw my last Gara, like, a year ago? May be even 2 years. I don't say she is weak, i ask where are Garas?
5) Banshee - The biggest dmg amp haver in the game…how often do you see her, honestly?
6) Ivara - a joke. Her 2 is insanely niche, 1 and 3 meet the famous "meh, there are much better analogues". Yes, her bow can 1shot 180lvl CHGs with SP modifiers, but, cmon, just take bramma at this point.
7) Styanax - while having pretty comfy kit, he offers nothign special or flashy. Understandably fogotten.
8) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. 
9) Culervo - He is borderline ok, since he is a niche for…heavy attack enjoyers??? Seen any?
10) Kaliban - honestly, a surprise for me. Dude offers armor/shield strip and dmg vulnerability in ONE kit (warframes are usually given 1 of these 2), moreover this can go further beyond with Helminth, but he seems completely forgotten.

 

 

Just...................No.

Gara is fine.  The problem is the speed at which the game is played doesn't play to her kit  She still owns in a lot of modes.  Does not need a rework. She's also the one frame that I use for the weekly nightwave "3 runs in the index without the NPCs scoring a point".  works every time.  

Voruna is an exterminate nuke frame.  You use her 4 augment mod, use 1, 3, and 4, profit.  She's essentially a vanguard from Mass Effect 3 without the invulnerability.  I use her on SP Grineer runs.  And I never fire a shot.  She does not need a rework.  Also works great for any speed run need like capture or sabotage.  Totally good to go on spy missions too. 

Kullervo is the single most overpowered mob frame in the game right now.  I suck at warframe and I solo'd netracell with him.   Does not need a rework. 

Caliban - there's nothing wrong with Caliban.  He's just inherently slow and you need all his slots to make him respectable so there's not a lot of room for rush- that and his pet management is super annoying.  Does not require a rework.  Maybe a tweak. Not everyone has him.

Ivara is fine.  Refined players that really understand her (not me) are able to get max use out of her.  I use her for free roam fishing and mining.  And I like that about her. 

Stynax is fine.  I see him a lot.  Not everyone has him.  his power set is actually quite good, his ult is just kinda weird.

As for Nyx, Chroma, and especially Banshee - yeah, they could all use a rework.  Nyx got hit because DPS uber alles - she never failed, the game just changed.  Chroma died when self damage died.  And Banshee...not sure if you were around for Banshee spam, there's a reason people didn't want to see her around for a long time. 

 

As far as frames that need a rework that you didn't mention - Equinox could use some love. 

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

On 2024-02-11 at 4:20 AM, Darkbring said:

Styanax. Voruna, Kullervo and Caliban don't need a rework, they're fine. At best Voruna could use a tweak to her 4 so that she would move on all fours all the time. Kullervo doesn't need heavy attacks at all, he can kill whole maps with guns just fine. Caliban's 1 may as well not exist and his 2 is a waste of emergy, but his 3 and 4 are just fine. Rework for Caliban would be nice, but he doesn't NEED it, unlike Nyx who doesn't have a single good ability. Her 1 is trash that is more useful on Revenant. Her 2 is good when it works as you want it to, but it hits a limited amount of targets and you have no control over which targets it will hit and it can hit the same target twice, so most of the time it's a waste of energy. Her 3 is just an AoE radiation proc, it costs an arm and a leg to cast, and you can't recast it even if new enemies arrive. The augment for her 3 is just a bandaid for being unable to recast it. Guess what, Qorvex's 1 does literally the same thing, but better. Her 4 is trash with or without an augments. After Inaros is done, Nyx, Frost, Ember and Oberon, in that order, are the warframes that actually need a rework.

what is wrong with Ember, frost, and oberon?