Inaros "Rework" Lackluster

[Dax-Kriegor]

No matter how many times you claim nuking is the best way to clear any mission type, I still more than once a week find players about to ragequit asking for help right as they're about to log off because they can't stand it, that either can't figure out interception at low levels or have gotten so used to that mentality that you appear to be stuck in, that either by flooding the map themselves or having the misfortune of ending up in squad with someone who does... And when I explain to them how interception works they are reluctant, as most people believe as you do that the point of the game is just kill everything as fast as you can because that's what they've been shown to do instead of playing how the game itself tells you to, and when I say just hold the 15 enemies at the start and let them live while you take all the points they don't understand how that will work against the 20, 30, 50 enemies at each of the other points so I have to explain to them that because you're not killing the first group of enemies that whole ass army they're afraid of never shows up. So I show them. And every time they're shocked and amazed to see it in action, I've even been asked if I'm hacking because how did I make it so effortless and why were there suddenly no enemies when before they were drowning in mobs? Well, the reason is simple: it's because people like you flooding the map and getting those lower level players swarmed by mobs that may be easy for YOU to handle, aren't necessarily easy for THEM to handle. What IS easy, however, is letting that small handful of enemies live but keeping them unable to do anything useful while you capture and dominate the map. And for the sake of feeling justified in your, frankly awful, play style you are causing them to have a horrible experience. And any play style that actively makes the game worse for the rest of the squad, especially by creating a detrimental experience for newer players, is NOT(!!!) better, objectively or anything. I understand you want to feel like your way is the best way, but it's really not in all cases. You literally are just arguing that making the game worse for others is somehow better than helping your squad succeed.

And I'm making this point, again, as an ash main. Stealth, mobility, armor strip, nuking ... He's got it. What ash LACKS is crowd control. And that's why ash ISNT my preferred frame for interception where crowd control is the SUPERIOR way to clear the mission.

Also, if I can deal over 30mil in one attack with a finisher that lasts less than a second, bypasses enemy defenses, and sets the base damage for a forced slash proc, and you can't see how that's effective at level cap... I really can't help you. I don't believe you have a frame that can hit harder than that because I don't have a frame that can hit harder than that, and I've got them all.

So to be clear, while I CAN hit harder than you, I also can recognize that that's often NOT the best or easiest way to clear a mission, and I don't throw waves of mobs at other players just assuming they can handle it, when I see very often people getting frustrated by the play style you're advocating simply because nobody let them know there's better options. 

And if you're in spy vaults just nuking sensor drones instead of using stealth, you're just as much of a problem there, too. Because sensor drones ALWAYS trigger alarms when attacked, even if you destroy them in the first hit, and the game tells you as much.

I had other things I needed to do last night rather than just repeatedly try to illustrate for you the same handful of points, but now it's time to get ready for work again, and with just 5hr sleep, tbh I don't even feel rested at all but I wake up only to see you're still making the same false argument here and it's becoming more of a chore to discuss this than I care to continue engaging in.

Especially when repeatedly in his same thread you see multiple other people making points you disagree with, and when provided with statistics or concrete examples you continue to make the same poorly reasoned false arguments. I'm inclined to agree with others here that you really don't seem to play this game or understand how it works.

If you're quite insistent to be wrong, keep on being wrong. But just remember that if all you do is nuke everything, then no you're not wishing that there were situations in the game where stealth or control are better options than slaughter. You're just disregarding every instance where they are the better options, and almost definitely often making the game worse for the people unfortunate enough to end up in squad with you

And btw...

"He said those are all the frames that are below Inaros who's in 31st out of 56 total. So, not really"

no, he said inaros prime is 31st out of all frames prime and non prime, well more than 56. And the ones he mentioned in the post I replied to are all frames that are well regarded as being in good shape. I'm not saying they're meta frames, but they're all consistently useful frames and not ones that many people would generally regard as bad or needing a rework 

Edited February 25 by Dax-Kriegor

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

6 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Cool.

That actually wasn't at all the reason why Inaros players were being teased. It was because he was so good, he was considered "easy mode".

1 power can stun and make multiple enemies vulnerable to finishers, and each finisher performed refilled 25% of Inaros' entire 9k (Prime 10k) Health Pool. Health that could also be used with another power to increase Armor, further decreasing any damage recieved.

The only reason that situation stopped was because someone finally figured out how good Revenant is, and now the same teasing passed to Revenant Mains. I can't even begin to guess why you'd think changing the reason behind a well-known event happening within the community was a good idea, it's possible you weren't actually around for it and only saw people being teased because Inaros took a skydive after Overguard came in, but it definitely wasn't why folks were being teased for using Inaros for literal years.

I take this as gaslighting. I lived through this.

Yes, he was considered "easy mode"... the frame that wouldn't die... that's ALL he was good for, according to the community. People made fun of players who used him, because he didn't do anything else, wasn't helpful to the team, and was just a weapon holding platform to them. He was a "non-frame"... no defining traits, except for being the "king of survivability", like I said, and that title has been taken from him by other frames like Revenant, Sevagoth, and (not just overguard, this happened much earlier than overguard) anyone with shield gating!

This is why his Scarab Armor was the main ability that needed to change in any rework, and all they did was fold his existing status protection augment into it and then gave him an augment that prevents 1 death at the cost of getting a slash proc, and has a cooldown. As I've said, this falls far short of the Shield Gate mechanic that still keeps much squishier frames alive much easier than Inaros, with near instant uptime on their death protection.

Also, all that fancy armor that Inaros gets from his fourth... is really not that impressive... it only increases off his base armor, not modified. Inaros is nigh unkillable in Star Chart content, this is true. It's when he's taken into Steel Path (yes he's still viable on Steel Path, however, you can't stand still doing nothing like on the Star Chart, you have to move and use his abilities to keep him alive there... I don't know what game people are playing if they think he's THAT tanky) and endless endurance runs (the real killer), that enemy stats begin to rise to the point where his armor no longer protects him, and his health pool might as well be as small as anyone else. I'm not saying his armor should scale up with endlessly scaling enemies, or that the game should be balanced around that. I'm saying this is where he falls off entirely, and anyone with Shield Gating can continue. This disparity could have been addressed with suggestions from the community, without altering his kit all that much... but they chose not to.

I could go on, but I'm getting annoyed by this whole situation.

[_Anise_]

On 2024-02-24 at 3:36 AM, Ceadeus said:

So while the loss of puddle is tragic and it would've been cool to see it kept alive somehow

they should have made the puddle his "slide animation" (or dodge)

as for someone who got Inaros from the quest leveled and instantly fed him into the blender then got his prime leveled and never touched it again, the rework dosn't sound bad,

the new kit on paper looks more inspired than some recent warframe kits and I have seen people calling this rework "sand saryn"

Edited February 25 by _Anise_

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

I take this as gaslighting. I lived through this.

Yes, he was considered "easy mode"... the frame that wouldn't die... that's ALL he was good for, according to the community. People made fun of players who used him, because he didn't do anything else, wasn't helpful to the team, and was just a weapon holding platform to them. He was a "non-frame"... no defining traits, except for being the "king of survivability", like I said, and that title has been taken from him by other frames like Revenant, Sevagoth, and (not just overguard, this happened much earlier than overguard) anyone with shield gating!

This is why his Scarab Armor was the main ability that needed to change in any rework, and all they did was fold his existing status protection augment into it and then gave him an augment that prevents 1 death at the cost of getting a slash proc, and has a cooldown. As I've said, this falls far short of the Shield Gate mechanic that still keeps much squishier frames alive much easier than Inaros, with near instant uptime on their death protection.

Also, all that fancy armor that Inaros gets from his fourth... is really not that impressive... it only increases off his base armor, not modified. Inaros is nigh unkillable in Star Chart content, this is true. It's when he's taken into Steel Path (yes he's still viable on Steel Path, however, you can't stand still doing nothing like on the Star Chart, you have to move and use his abilities to keep him alive there... I don't know what game people are playing if they think he's THAT tanky) and endless endurance runs (the real killer), that enemy stats begin to rise to the point where his armor no longer protects him, and his health pool might as well be as small as anyone else. I'm not saying his armor should scale up with endlessly scaling enemies, or that the game should be balanced around that. I'm saying this is where he falls off entirely, and anyone with Shield Gating can continue. This disparity could have been addressed with suggestions from the community, without altering his kit all that much... but they chose not to.

I could go on, but I'm getting annoyed by this whole situation.

You'll have to excuse me but I didn't read past "I take this as gaslighting". Take it however you like, it won't change the fact that you haven't succeeded in morphing the real reason Inaros players were being teased for years. And it also won't change how done I am with folks in this thread being presented with facts and willfully ignoring them. If you decide you want to have a proper conversation about this instead of labelling things unnecessarily like a grumpy teenager, then ill gladly continue. Until then, there's no point entertaining this considering I was literally around while all this was happening.

Edited February 25 by (PSN)MYKK678
.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Wow, what a thread..

 Personally i'm just gonna wait for the rework to go live and try it before forming any opinions..

[UnstarPrime]

On 2024-02-23 at 3:51 PM, Ceadeus said:

However, even with both of those things in mind, I feel like I'm not alone in saying what was shown on today's Devstream 177 was pretty underwhelming for a frame that has needed attention for SO long.

I thought it looked great.  Inaros didn't need anything, and what he got seems to be a full suite of useful abilities.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

 

3 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

the new kit on paper looks more inspired than some recent warframe kits and I have seen people calling this rework "sand saryn"

Alot if people are skipping over the fact that his Scarb Swarm damage scales with his Health Pool, and they also changed how the corrosive procs work.

Which means Inaros will really want to use Green Shards which means he will be able to strip armor. 

This why they're calling it a "Sand Saryn"

That's more of an important change vs simply the "Sand Cat" spawning. But DE kinda glossed over this change to his kit anyways. Your going to want at least 1 Green Shard in his kit with this change.

I'm really curious how this is going to be.

Edited February 25 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[spider_enigma]

he is a cc frame

overguard prevents cc

steel path has way more eximus

eximus have overguard

he has no shields or overguard and dies instantly in steel path

this has been a discussion ever since steel path was released

 

ether make his powers work thru overguard, or change his powers entirely

 

The Steel Path is a difficulty modifier for the Origin System hosted by Teshin, testing the Tenno's perseverance against significantly more durable enemies. It was introduced in Update 28.1 (2020-07-08).

over 2 years ago... its not a recent discussion

Edited February 25 by spider_enigma

[Ceadeus]

7 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

No matter how many times you claim nuking is the best way to clear any mission type, I still more than once a week find players about to ragequit asking for help right as they're about to log off because they can't stand it, that either can't figure out interception at low levels or have gotten so used to that mentality that you appear to be stuck in, that either by flooding the map themselves or having the misfortune of ending up in squad with someone who does... And when I explain to them how interception works they are reluctant, as most people believe as you do that the point of the game is just kill everything as fast as you can because that's what they've been shown to do instead of playing how the game itself tells you to, and when I say just hold the 15 enemies at the start and let them live while you take all the points they don't understand how that will work against the 20, 30, 50 enemies at each of the other points so I have to explain to them that because you're not killing the first group of enemies that whole ass army they're afraid of never shows up. So I show them. And every time they're shocked and amazed to see it in action, I've even been asked if I'm hacking because how did I make it so effortless and why were there suddenly no enemies when before they were drowning in mobs? Well, the reason is simple: it's because people like you flooding the map and getting those lower level players swarmed by mobs that may be easy for YOU to handle, aren't necessarily easy for THEM to handle. What IS easy, however, is letting that small handful of enemies live but keeping them unable to do anything useful while you capture and dominate the map. And for the sake of feeling justified in your, frankly awful, play style you are causing them to have a horrible experience. And any play style that actively makes the game worse for the rest of the squad, especially by creating a detrimental experience for newer players, is NOT(!!!) better, objectively or anything. I understand you want to feel like your way is the best way, but it's really not in all cases. You literally are just arguing that making the game worse for others is somehow better than helping your squad succeed.

No, you're just misleading them.  I'm assuming we're just using your 15 as a general number for discussion's sake and you're not actually claiming that as the enemy cap, so going with that, if there are 15 enemies and you claim you can hold all of them and no more will spawn, there will ALWAYS be 15 enemies in that round no matter how many you kill.  The amount of enemies you fight at any given time will never increase until the next round comes and it will increase regardless of whether you kill the enemies or not.  There will never be a case where you kill 15 at a certain spot and then 20, 30, or 50 spawn elsewhere, it will always total up to 15 present on the map at all times for that round.  Ironically, nuking is even more of a necessity for newer players as they need the affinity and resources more than anybody, and the issue that you're describing of enemies popping up elsewhere and being unable to quickly respond and deal with them is literally being ineffective at nuking, not a detriment caused by nuking.  You are literally saying that the enemies are surviving the nuke and you're failing to cover the points quickly enough, which they shouldn't be if you're playing the playstyle correctly, so to that end, I could just as easily say your CC playstyle can be even more detrimental if you take a crappy CC build that doesn't hold the enemies well enough and they overrun you anyway while you burn all your energy and you have no way to deal with them and die.  See how it's not really relevant to just assume a bad build in a discussion about the merit of playstyles as a whole?

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

And I'm making this point, again, as an ash main. Stealth, mobility, armor strip, nuking ... He's got it. What ash LACKS is crowd control. And that's why ash ISNT my preferred frame for interception where crowd control is the SUPERIOR way to clear the mission.

Ash isn't a good nuker though because he relies on direct LoS to every target you want to hit before you can hit them.  You're literally just proving my point that you're playing bad nukers and blaming the playstyle.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

Also, if I can deal over 30mil in one attack with a finisher that lasts less than a second, bypasses enemy defenses, and sets the base damage for a forced slash proc, and you can't see how that's effective at level cap... I really can't help you. I don't believe you have a frame that can hit harder than that because I don't have a frame that can hit harder than that, and I've got them all.

Lots of frames can do that through lots of different ability combos.  People have gotten frames to do a lot higher damage than that.  Hydroid can without the need for a finisher.  Using the exact combo I described you can easily hit 30mil + slash procs.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

So to be clear, while I CAN hit harder than you, I also can recognize that that's often NOT the best or easiest way to clear a mission, and I don't throw waves of mobs at other players just assuming they can handle it, when I see very often people getting frustrated by the play style you're advocating simply because nobody let them know there's better options. 

Well no, the idea is that if you're the nuker, you should be effectively dealing with ALL the mobs.  If you're only able to deal with a small portion of them (as I said is the case with Ash) then that's not a good nuke frame.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

And if you're in spy vaults just nuking sensor drones instead of using stealth, you're just as much of a problem there, too. Because sensor drones ALWAYS trigger alarms when attacked, even if you destroy them in the first hit, and the game tells you as much.

I'm not sure what you mean by sensor drones so I can't say for sure if that's accurate or not.  But I do know people run nukes through spy missions all the time without issue.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

I had other things I needed to do last night rather than just repeatedly try to illustrate for you the same handful of points, but now it's time to get ready for work again, and with just 5hr sleep, tbh I don't even feel rested at all but I wake up only to see you're still making the same false argument here and it's becoming more of a chore to discuss this than I care to continue engaging in.

But you're just admitting you're using bad frames/builds and blaming the playstyle when you're not doing it effectively to begin with.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

Especially when repeatedly in his same thread you see multiple other people making points you disagree with, and when provided with statistics or concrete examples you continue to make the same poorly reasoned false arguments. I'm inclined to agree with others here that you really don't seem to play this game or understand how it works.

There really haven't been any concrete examples.  The most concrete thing has been Waeleto's frame usage data, but even that only puts him running middle of the pack and dropping as his survivability becomes more and more irrelevant throughout the year.  It sounds more like you're upset that you didn't know anything at all about how Hydroid works or plays and your idea of how the different playstyles are supposed to function is just wrong.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

If you're quite insistent to be wrong, keep on being wrong. But just remember that if all you do is nuke everything, then no you're not wishing that there were situations in the game where stealth or control are better options than slaughter. You're just disregarding every instance where they are the better options, and almost definitely often making the game worse for the people unfortunate enough to end up in squad with you

There is no instance where they're the better option.  You're disregarding the fact that the frames and builds you're using are terrible and ineffective nukers and claiming that's indicative of the playstyle.

8 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

no, he said inaros prime is 31st out of all frames prime and non prime, well more than 56. And the ones he mentioned in the post I replied to are all frames that are well regarded as being in good shape. I'm not saying they're meta frames, but they're all consistently useful frames and not ones that many people would generally regard as bad or needing a rework 

Yes, he clarified and I already commented on that.  However, with the exception of Baruuk, all the frames he said were below Inaros do get regular complaints about getting updates to their kit.  Not as drastic as Inaros', but still changes wanted all the same.  Take Frost for example, people have wanted a Frost rework for a long time.

5 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

they should have made the puddle his "slide animation" (or dodge)

Yeah, I thought that would've been really cool.  But I guess maybe it would be unfair to the other frames to have his dodge also be an ability.

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

as for someone who got Inaros from the quest leveled and instantly fed him into the blender then got his prime leveled and never touched it again, the rework dosn't sound bad,

the new kit on paper looks more inspired than some recent warframe kits and I have seen people calling this rework "sand saryn"

It's not "bad" like I said I just don't feel like it's enough and I'm worried that means he's just going to get tossed to the wayside to wait another almost decade for the proper rework he deserves to give him some real value and identity outside his healthbar.

3 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

 Personally i'm just gonna wait for the rework to go live and try it before forming any opinions..

You're welcome to do so.  Personally, I don't need to see it live to see how these changes stack up against similar abilities and how far behind Inaros is by comparison.

3 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

I thought it looked great.  Inaros didn't need anything, and what he got seems to be a full suite of useful abilities.

He definitely did (and still does) need a lot.  His kit has been outdated for a long time and these changes still don't bring him up to modern standards.  If Inaros released today even with the proposed rework, he would be considered one of the worst frames in the game.  It's really only off his legacy as a tank that he's hanging on at all and that's going to start dropping as shield gating and overguard become more standard.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Alot if people are skipping over the fact that his Scarb Swarm damage scales with his Health Pool, and they also changed how the corrosive procs work.

Which means Inaros will really want to use Green Shards which means he will be able to strip armor. 

This why they're calling it a "Sand Saryn"

Yes, this is all helpful, but the problem is scaling off health still means it has a fixed cap, unlike Saryn, and unless the numbers in Pablo's demo are wildly lower than what will be hitting live or there's some kind of insane exponential scaling instead of mostly linear, they also weren't all that good and even with a fully maxed health build that damage isn't going to be able to keep up with basically any of the good DPS frames, even with that armor strip (which I also think people are wildly overstating as it's just a slow corrosive proc, it's not like Hydroid where there are multiple sources of enhanced corrosive procs hitting really fast all the time), not to mention the clunkiness of him being forced to rely on shards like you're saying to begin with when he's already not that great.

1 hour ago, spider_enigma said:

he is a cc frame

overguard prevents cc

Even without the overguard issue his CC potential has never been all that great.  Both pocket sand and sandstorm don't have enough range to really be worth trying to run him as a CC focused frame, it's just an afterthought of his kit.

[Aerikx]

On 2024-02-23 at 9:04 PM, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Caliban released with either bad or already outdated powers making up his 4, and no news at all about them being looked at among others. 

Caliban made me glance at Yareli and ALMOST say "Sorry, I was wrong." Almost...

Like...Caliban is so bad that I'm actually serious when I say they need to delete him, his concept art, and code. Then, rebuild him from the concept on up. 

If any frame needs a rework it's Caliban. Somehow that....that....thing has cut Loki, Frost, and many of the older frames in the rework/touch up line.

[spider_enigma]

31 minutes ago, Ceadeus said:

en without the overguard issue his CC potential has never been all that great.  Both pocket sand and sandstorm don't have enough range to really be worth trying to run him as a CC focused frame, it's just an afterthought of his kit.

and thats y his rework looks bad atm, idk how its going to really play till i try it myself or see a review after it comes out

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

14 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

That actually wasn't at all the reason why Inaros players were being teased. It was because he was so good, he was considered "easy mode".

This is cap.

Rhino was the frame people actually made fun of because of his ease of use until the Wukong rework and eventually Rev's release. 

Inaros has been hounded for years due to having 3 useless abilities and and a laughable passive.  The only people saying otherwise were Inaros mains and anybody foolish enough to take Brozime serious.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

I had accepted that what I want Inaros to be most likely doesn't work well with modern Warframe and probably is completely different from what DE envisions him to be. 

Back when he was first released I was hopeful for changes to let him be more co-op friendly. He was a pharaoh remembered and revered for helping the helpless. Nothing about what made him memorable- what gave him his in-universe identity as protector king of Mars was really present in his ability set.

It makes sense within Warframe's gameplay which lacks traditional tank roles, but if there was any frame DE could have experimented such an idea it should have been him. He should have been weirder and I'm saddened just more CC is what he's getting. 

Edited February 25 by BansheeAndZephyrMarried

[Ceadeus]

3 minutes ago, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

I had accepted that what I want Inaros to be most likely doesn't work well with modern Warframe

To be fair, most stuff doesn't work with modern Warframe anymore, including the idea of a "tank" frame.  It's all just really not necessary when the game keeps shifting more and more towards "grind out endless hordes of mobs for abysmal droprates" and/or "chew through this one enemy that has higher EHP than the entirety of all the health and defenses of every enemy in entire missions combined".

[Hexerin]

On 2024-02-23 at 7:04 PM, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

In the meantime frames like Trinity have 4 outdated powers

Both Blessing and Energy Vampire are insanely strong, and Link is entirely functional. Her only bad ability is Well of Life, as it's redundant to Blessing. The only thing about Trinity that truly needs help is her durations, which are all pitifully low by modern standards. Is there more you could do to her to make her more fun? Of course, but there's far too many other frames that actually need reworks that absolutely come first.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

Both Blessing and Energy Vampire are insanely strong, and Link is entirely functional. Her only bad ability is Well of Life, as it's redundant to Blessing. The only thing about Trinity that truly needs help is her durations, which are all pitifully low by modern standards. Is there more you could do to her to make her more fun? Of course, but there's far too many other frames that actually need reworks that absolutely come first.

Thank you

Say it louder for people in the back

[spider_enigma]

42 minutes ago, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz said:

This is cap.

Rhino was the frame people actually made fun of because of his ease of use until the Wukong rework and eventually Rev's release. 

Inaros has been hounded for years due to having 3 useless abilities and and a laughable passive.  The only people saying otherwise were Inaros mains and anybody foolish enough to take Brozime serious.

even brozime said he was S#&$

[(PSN)MYKK678]

8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Both Blessing and Energy Vampire are insanely strong, and Link is entirely functional. Her only bad ability is Well of Life, as it's redundant to Blessing. The only thing about Trinity that truly needs help is her durations, which are all pitifully low by modern standards. Is there more you could do to her to make her more fun? Of course, but there's far too many other frames that actually need reworks that absolutely come first.

You must be right, that must be why her main frame is third last in usage and her prime is at a staggering 0.62% usage in 2023.

I'm getting the feeling folks aren't understanding what "run and gun" means. It means the game encourages you to continuously move while fighting. Run from room to room to room. And yet you want to call 2 powers that stop 1 single enemy in its tracks, that will stay there while you're gradually 20m away, then 50m away, then 200m away, "insanely strong". I mean I'm sure they are, nobody really knows considering you pass by that enemy within about 1.6 seconds and then never see them again nor get any of the Health/Energy from it, but we can certainly guess they'd be insanely strong if they were at all useful.

But they aren't useful. It was years ago when Trinity was a necessity for Eidolon/Tridolon Hunts, but you'd be going back a good few years to find a group that actually needed "the usual" set up for that. Whether folks were adding armor strips to Vastiloks or bringing Necramechs, bit by bit the only thing Trinity was useful for slowly faded away. If I had to guess, I'd say you may accidentally be remembering how useful Trinity was in the past instead of looking at the game as it is in front of you. Pretty much all of her powers have been made redundant by other frames or other powers. You go chase the 3 armour stripped enemies that the power randomly chooses to latch onto, I'll hit pillage once. You go and pretend that blessings heal and shield recharge is good while I go walk into wisps Motes or Proteas Satellites.

An insanely strong Warframe you never see in groups. Makes sense alright.

[spider_enigma]

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz said:

Thank you

Say it louder for people in the back

thats y u replace it with nourish... oh wait... thats being nurfed so people will use the new eclipse witch is also being nurfed LMAO

they had only 2 jobs, make eclipse a togle and make inaros good. 250 armor for his buff is still really bad for a hp tank, make it 2k or make it give 4x overguard to hp used or he is just going to die repeatedly

we cant have nice things because they dont want to give them to us, in fear of making a new meta

at least we can use eclipse defense buff on inaros to maybe not die?

[Hexerin]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

You must be right, that must be why her main frame is third last in usage and her prime is at a staggering 0.62% usage in 2023.

I'm getting the feeling folks aren't understanding what "run and gun" means. It means the game encourages you to continuously move while fighting. Run from room to room to room. And yet you want to call 2 powers that stop 1 single enemy in its tracks, that will stay there while you're gradually 20m away, then 50m away, then 200m away, "insanely strong". I mean I'm sure they are, nobody really knows considering you pass by that enemy within about 1.6 seconds and then never see them again nor get any of the Health/Energy from it, but we can certainly guess they'd be insanely strong if they were at all useful.

But they aren't useful. It was years ago when Trinity was a necessity for Eidolon/Tridolon Hunts, but you'd be going back a good few years to find a group that actually needed "the usual" set up for that. Whether folks were adding armor strips to Vastiloks or bringing Necramechs, bit by bit the only thing Trinity was useful for slowly faded away. If I had to guess, I'd say you may accidentally be remembering how useful Trinity was in the past instead of looking at the game as it is in front of you. Pretty much all of her powers have been made redundant by other frames or other powers. You go chase the 3 armour stripped enemies that the power randomly chooses to latch onto, I'll hit pillage once. You go and pretend that blessings heal and shield recharge is good while I go walk into wisps Motes or Proteas Satellites.

An insanely strong Warframe you never see in groups. Makes sense alright.

You very clearly don't play Trinity, and thus your opinion on her is irrelevant.

Edited February 25 by Hexerin

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

14 minutes ago, spider_enigma said:

even brozime said he was S#&$

He was notorious for saying Inaros (and other questionable picks) was/were top tier for years. I believe those vids are still up

11 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

You must be right, that must be why her main frame is third last in usage and her prime is at a staggering 0.62% usage in 2023.

 

Frame usage is not indicative of their power.  Mag's usage has been in the dirt for years and she is widely regarded as one of the best frames in the game.  Just saying.

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz said:

Frame usage is not indicative of their power.  Mag's usage has been in the dirt for years and she is widely regarded as one of the best frames in the game.  Just saying.

Yup. The overwhelming majority of people will naturally gravitate towards whatever is simplest/easiest to accomplish a given goal. Frames like Trinity and Mag require the player to actually interact with their kits to get results, so fewer players will use them over alternatives that are more brain-AFK while still granting the "win".

[Dax-Kriegor]

2 hours ago, Ceadeus said:

Stuff

No, I didn't say I use ash as my nuke frame. I said I use ash as my MAIN, and that I have ALL THE FRAMES so believe me when I say you don't have a better nuke frame than me.

And I never said ANYTHING about leaving enemies alive when nuking. What I DID say was that leaving the starting enemies alive and using CC is more effective for that mission type than nuking them and forcing more to spawn at other places. But you're arguing that regardless of level you should be able to one shot every enemy on the entire map, and pretending that doesn't sound absolutely insane. And you think newer players or people struggling with sp interception should be focusing on that more than control in a mission type that's literally built around control??? And let's be real here. If you legitimately cared about the people playing those missions getting good amounts of resources, you wouldn't have said previously that there's "no reason to stay past round 1" because you're literally advocating for players skipping the mission boosters.

The worst part of this is that in the time I've been at work you could very easily have taken 5 minutes (assuming that our take a minute at start and another at finish for load times, and leaving you three minutes to do what hydroid2 could do in 1 minute because you've completely outed yourself as being ineffective at anything but murder) to play the mission type, on any bode, at any level, the way I described and see for yourself just how foolish your entire argument is. But instead of verifying what I'm saying you say here arguing the same wrong points and quoted me to keep making bad arguments. All you've done is proven, as others have already said here, that you don't even play the game. This is a complete waste of time, and I'm done. No matter how much you try to reason with a brick wall, it will always be as dumb as a brick. Don't quote me again, I won't be back.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

51 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

You very clearly don't play Trinity, and thus your opinion on her is irrelevant.

The only one describing her powers correctly doesn't play her. Yeah that makes sense. Good job making sense twice in a row, you're on a roll.

[Ceadeus]

3 minutes ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

No, I didn't say I use ash as my nuke frame. I said I use ash as my MAIN, and that I have ALL THE FRAMES so believe me when I say you don't have a better nuke frame than me.

10 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

Stealth, mobility, armor strip, nuking ... He's got it. What ash LACKS is crowd control. And that's why ash ISNT my preferred frame for interception where crowd control is the SUPERIOR way to clear the mission.

^ Literally implying you're using Ash as your reference for what a "nuker" playstyle would be and that Ash is a valid entry in this discussion of CC vs nuking, when he's not.  I have all the frames too, which is precisely why I would never bother to bring up Ash in reference to nuking.

5 minutes ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

And I never said ANYTHING about leaving enemies alive when nuking.

10 hours ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

Well, the reason is simple: it's because people like you flooding the map and getting those lower level players swarmed by mobs that may be easy for YOU to handle, aren't necessarily easy for THEM to handle.

Again, literally implies there were enemies left alive that the nuker did not handle themselves to be pawned off to other players, but any good nuker can handle the entire map before they present any real threat to any player who isn't actively putting themselves in harm's way and refusing to defend themselves.  So again, your argument is still operating on an inefficient nuke player to begin with and says nothing about the playstyle itself.

8 minutes ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

What I DID say was that leaving the starting enemies alive and using CC is more effective for that mission type than nuking them and forcing more to spawn at other places. But you're arguing that regardless of level you should be able to one shot every enemy on the entire map, and pretending that doesn't sound absolutely insane.

It's not.  At all.  Granted you can't do it just standing still in one spot, but you can absolutely keep the entire map locked down with just mediocre movement skills and a mediocre build.  If you really think that sounds insane it sounds like you need to work on your builds because they don't seem to be very good.

10 minutes ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

And you think newer players or people struggling with sp interception should be focusing on that more than control in a mission type that's literally built around control???

Yes, because it's not built around "control" as in CC, it's built around controlling the points, which is best done by no enemies being alive to contest it to begin with.  IE: Nuking.  Which also will provide them more affinity and resources, which newer players will need as the main loop of Warframe is the grind, while CC'ing will not provide anything.

11 minutes ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

And let's be real here. If you legitimately cared about the people playing those missions getting good amounts of resources, you wouldn't have said previously that there's "no reason to stay past round 1" because you're literally advocating for players skipping the mission boosters.

I never said past round 1, I said once things start to present a challenge, which if you have an actually effective nuker, you can easily stay for a long time with zero risk of dying or ever losing a control point.  I mentioned leaving in reference to your comment about fighting level 300 or 500 or whatever enemies and how there's no real point in doing that because you're going to get better returns just resetting and going again anyway.

14 minutes ago, Dax-Kriegor said:

The worst part of this is that in the time I've been at work you could very easily have taken 5 minutes (assuming that our take a minute at start and another at finish for load times, and leaving you three minutes to do what hydroid2 could do in 1 minute because you've completely outed yourself as being ineffective at anything but murder) to play the mission type, on any bode, at any level, the way I described and see for yourself just how foolish your entire argument is. But instead of verifying what I'm saying you say here arguing the same wrong points and quoted me to keep making bad arguments. All you've done is proven, as others have already said here, that you don't even play the game. This is a complete waste of time, and I'm done. No matter how much you try to reason with a brick wall, it will always be as dumb as a brick. Don't quote me again, I won't be back.

The irony of talking about a "waste of time" when that is literally the playstyle you're describing.  You are literally sat here saying it is better to play an ineffective, completely passive, unrewarding playstyle that completes the mission SLOWER because it will also take longer to clear the enemies at the end of the round, all because you don't know how to play a nuke frame apparently.  I'm not denying that you can do the things you're claiming, what I'm denying is that it is actually beneficial.  Every "detriment" you've described about using a nuke frame stems from the assumption that it is being played poorly, and not with any actual fault in the concept itself.  Your entire argument quite literally boils down to "When the nuker fails to do their job adequately then new players might not have a good build either and you could fail".