Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"

[ShogunGunshow]

6 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Yea it seems that vosfor reward is so low specifically to encourage people skipping out on the parameter they like the least.

And honestly, all you need is 1 choice to totally trivialize things. (coughMesacough)

[Drachnyn]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Tsukinoki:

Hey, how about you actually take a look from the OP on reddit (OPs name is highlighted blue on reddit to make it possible to identify them):

So yeah...you're presenting a "Hey look, wouldn't it be funny to get such a bad gear selection?" as a "Look people!!!!  This mode sucks!!!! Look at this horrible loadout that this person got!!!!"

When it's just someone poking fun at the idea.

Yeah, such a great strawman you have.

What now, you're going to put together and image of even lower tier gear and try to pass that off as something that actually happened?  Instead of actually posting the context and truth?

Damn, they got me. In hindsight it should have been obvious. No one would pick caliban.

[MrDugan]

8 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Hey, how about you actually take a look from the OP on reddit (OPs name is highlighted blue on reddit to make it possible to identify them):

So yeah...you're presenting a "Hey look, wouldn't it be funny to get such a bad gear selection?" as a "Look people!!!!  This mode sucks!!!! Look at this horrible loadout that this person got!!!!"

When it's just someone poking fun at the idea.

Yeah, such a great strawman you have.

What now, you're going to put together and image of even lower tier gear and try to pass that off as something that actually happened?  Instead of actually posting the context and truth?

To be completely honest with you, I didn't look into the thread hard enough to see the comment from the OP.  Mea culpa.  Judging from the top comments I skimmed through, a lot of other people didn't either.  And yet at the same time, there are people discussing getting completely useless loadouts just like the one shown.  Regardless of the validity of that exact screen shot, it's still a very real situation that people have already been discussing getting put in, right here in these forums.  So it's not like it's some totally unrealistic situation.  The game can offer that loadout, those items are all real, and the point is that they are all bad.  

I made a comment in this thread before the mode was even out where I literally discussed getting garbage loadouts, and the fact that this mode can give you unredeemable options.  The fact that the comment was entirely hypothetical doesn't make it any less valid.  You can get screwed, because the arsenal is outdated.  That apparently fake screen shot is just the same argument in meme form.  You can scream "muh straw man" all you want.  Go look in the feedback forums for DA and you'll see people getting loadouts that don't work for them in the slightest.

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, schilds said:

Luckily you can run a weapon or frame of your choice and all you'll miss out is 50 vosfor.

Sadly it can potentially missfire before hitting Elite Deep though, unless DE has a fail safe implemented that grants us atleast 1 owned item in each category. If not it is enough you miss out on 1 category and you'll never reach Elite that week. It's not until you actually do Elite that you can skip 1 item to reach the maximum of useful rewards.

Maybe @[DE]Megan or @[DE]Daniellecould help clarify that if possible. Are we guaranteed to always get atleast 1 item per category that we own? Would be terrible to find out later down the line that that isnt the case. 

[Raikh]

45 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If not it is enough you miss out on 1 category and you'll never reach Elite that week. It's not until you actually do Elite that you can skip 1 item to reach the maximum of useful rewards.

iirc Patch Notes stated you unlock elite permanently after clearing normal at 25 once. So once unlocked we can start with elite directly every week.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Raikh said:

iirc Patch Notes stated you unlock elite permanently after clearing normal at 25 once. So once unlocked we can start with elite directly every week.

No way! Are you fantaboulasly serious? I need to go read them again.

It would make some of the wording in the patch notes make more sense aswell, like everytime they specifically point out "or elite".

[schilds]

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Just assuming no completion screen shot.  Just like a quick, get in, kill a couple enemies so you can say it works, then abort?  Happy to be proven wrong.  

I got halfway through the exterminate without hiding in a corner, which is enough to prove to me that Banshee can 1) kill stuff and 2) survive in a *group* without hiding. I don't recall you saying anything about solo, that was just me running a test. She can contribute more than her fair share. Simply having more people around in a group makes it far easier to survive. Higher enemy density makes it easier to keep up on energy too.

If you want, I'll play with my build and practice at it until I can complete the whole thing solo with Banshee and take a screenie for you :P. Oh, and my Amphis is not even fully modded ... I mean, why am I even using an Amphis. I could just stick the Torid on and take the last restriction.

Here we go, exterminate done with all the restrictions except the primary swapped out for the Torid:

Spoiler

For all you know, though, I took half an hour and hid in every corner :-P.

Edited April 5 by schilds

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

If not it is enough you miss out on 1 category and you'll never reach Elite that week. It's not until you actually do Elite that you can skip 1 item to reach the maximum of useful rewards.

All of the patch notes, and IIRC in game UI, mention that unlocking elite mode is permanent.

So do it once and you can just start at elite mode from that point on (emphasis mine below):

21 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

How to unlock and Enable: 
Completing all 3 Deep Archimedea missions with a Research Points of 25 or higher will unlock Elite Archimedea permanently. From the Deep Archimedea screen, it’s as easy as selecting the “Elite Archimedea” button to enable it.

And from the in game tips menu:

So yeah, do a maximum point run in the normal deep archimedea once and prove you can handle ultimate without ever needing to do the normal mode again.

That way you only need to run the mode once per week, instead of twice.

 

EDIT:
Also there is only one real reason to max out elite archimedea research points, and you only ever need to do it once: the Archimedean Eye Sumdali.
After that the 50 vosfor just isn't all that worth it.

Edited April 5 by Tsukinoki

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said:

All of the patch notes, and IIRC in game UI, mention that unlocking elite mode is permanent.

So do it once and you can just start at elite mode from that point on (emphasis mine below):

So yeah, do a maximum point run in the normal deep archimedea once and prove you can handle ultimate.

That way you only need to run the mode once per week, instead of twice.

Yep yep, thanks for confirming it aswell. Just went back to the notes and caught that part. I thought they refered to permanent for the week since they kept mentioning the pointless "can play the new mode as much as you like for the week" without rewards, so thought they highlighted the permanent elite thing for those that wanted to do that just for uhm fun.

Anyways, this made my day. Since from next week and onward, no need to do two run to get everything and free to pick 1 thing aswell, or one debuff less if the pulls are good.

[Tsukinoki]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Anyways, this made my day. Since from next week and onward, no need to do two run to get everything and free to pick 1 thing aswell, or one debuff less if the pulls are good.

Also a small tip that I don't think many people noticed yet:
Even if your pulls are the best, there is another small trick you can have up your sleeves to have an advantage: Specters aren't restricted in the mode.

Sure they are just specters with their AI quirks and issues...but if you feel like you really need some extra help in clearing the mode you can bring your specters along to smooth things out a bit.

And at the very least it's an extra body to distract the enemies with.

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Also a small tip that I don't think many people noticed yet:
Even if your pulls are the best, there is another small trick you can have up your sleeves to have an advantage: Specters aren't restricted in the mode.

Sure they are just specters with their AI quirks and issues...but if you feel like you really need some extra help in clearing the mode you can bring your specters along to smooth things out a bit.

And at the very least it's an extra body to distract the enemies with.

😲 I didnt even give the specters a thought. Hmm does that mean we can use our terminator cosplay guns aswell?

[VENDOMINUS]

I've made a complete list of all weapons, you can't complete the DA with:
1....

end of list

Since you can pick whichever frame you wand at the cost of 50 vosfor, there is no mode you can't beat by just using something like, xaku ,protea ,octavia ,ash, ember, sarym, wukong, zephyr, volt, vauban, vakyr, trinity, titania, styanax, sevagoth, rhino, revenant, nezha,, nekros, mirage, mesa, mag, kullervo, khora, ivara, inaros, hydroid, hildryn, gyre, gauss, garuda, gara, excalibur, dante, dagath, citrine, chroma, baruuk together with a diriga sentinel with helstrum.

After checking out the rooster, I found that most warframes don't particularly care how strong their weapon is when facing enemies of about lv 500. Even those I didn't mention can do it easily with some minor adjustments. Some have a lot of extra damage, others have exalted weapons or pseudo exhalts that don't care, unless you plan on going SP levelcap.

 

On the other hand you can just pick any warframe, put vitality adaptation redirection, energy nexus and brief respite on them, and pick laetrum at the cost of 50 vosfor and you can do anything DA can throw at you.

 

 

Also considering loadouts seem to change daily, finding something usefull that you own shouldn't be all that difficult, provided you have 7 tries. First week is an outlier.

Another thing that can aid you is bringing a specter. Today, one of the squadmates used a wisp specter. it did a good enough job offsetting the bad stuff.

Don't forget that you can also use your heavy weapon of choice. While it won't be with you for the entire run, it can help you if you need burst damage.

If you summon your necramech, via console, you can also use that.

Commonly, any melee weapon with a melee influence build seems to do just fine as long as it has any base status chance.

I completely forgot, but railjack crewmate, can probably also help. Last I checked, they dont care about some damage attenuations.

Edited April 5 by VENDOMINUS

[TeaHands]

34 minutes ago, VENDOMINUS said:

While it won't be with you for the entire run, it can help you if you need burst damage.

*cough* Dispensary *cough*

At least that's what I do if I plan on using it.

[NeDesitVirtus]

I like my new eyeball sumdali from using my fully modded Rhino, Stalhta, Cyanex (modded for cold for nechramechs), and Bo Prime. It was cool seeing people take a little more time and a bit more strategy. Was it a little harder with no operator and the increased Elite conditionals yes.

But I also saw a lot more synergy and buffing each other intentionally, watching where each other was at and waiting before popping the dockets into conduits til we could handle the dual Voidrigs. 

And this was in a public lobby, which makes it all the more rewarding - breaking the stigma of public runs. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

23 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

base hind is trash no matter who is looking at it. MANY weapons are just genuinely, factually speaking, bad. 

the point I make absolutely works because my difficulty depends on what I am offered. That isn't a "challenge." 

again, you can like this garbage if you want. I cannot stop you. just don't call it a challenge, because it isn't one. 

So, a challenge to use a random loadout is not a challenge? Honestly, think about that for a second guys. You guys are literally saying a challenge isn't a challenge. We're asked to do something unique and, if we accept and meet that challenge, we get a full rewards package. 

If this is not what a challenge is, then what is a challenge to you? 

Also, if I recall correctly, the system allows for the variants to be used. Is this correct? I'm still traveling so I haven't tried the update yet. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

9 hours ago, NeDesitVirtus said:

I like my new eyeball sumdali from using my fully modded Rhino, Stalhta, Cyanex (modded for cold for nechramechs), and Bo Prime. It was cool seeing people take a little more time and a bit more strategy. Was it a little harder with no operator and the increased Elite conditionals yes.

But I also saw a lot more synergy and buffing each other intentionally, watching where each other was at and waiting before popping the dockets into conduits til we could handle the dual Voidrigs. 

And this was in a public lobby, which makes it all the more rewarding - breaking the stigma of public runs. 

 

And I think this was the intention: to reintroduce a real team element back into the game. As it stands, SP Circuit, the Archons and the new cell modes have all been geared towards that direction and, if I remember some of the play style preferences some of the primary commenters in this thread prefer, it looks like solo style players are having a harder time feeling the update. The pessimist s will never be happy, but I'm curious to get more insight from the team loving players. 

[schilds]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Also, if I recall correctly, the system allows for the variants to be used.

Yep.

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

So, a challenge to use a random loadout is not a challenge? 

[schilds]

Ok, so I just realised the loadout restrictions change *daily* even though DA is *weekly*.

Not sure that's intended, but it means you have far more options available to you.

So any lone picture of 9 terrible weapon options needs to be 7 such pictures, one for each day of the week :P.

 

[edit] Just read the patch notes and I guess it wasn't intended.

Quote

• Fixed the Loadout options resetting daily instead of weekly (at usual reset time) as intended. 
  • All conditions for Deep Archimedia are on a weekly reset, so the Loadout Modifiers follow this standard. 

Edited April 6 by schilds

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

8 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

 

Which goes back to my first response to that: what you consider trash is not what I, and others, may consider trash. Beef up your arsenal, utilize the bane mods, throw some armor on your frames and take the challenge head on!

[VENDOMINUS]

9 hours ago, schilds said:

[edit] Just read the patch notes and I guess it wasn't intended.

The thing that had changed unintentionally was the modifiers. Not the loadouts. They do seem to change daily by design.