Magic tricks are never what they seem.

[2wentyThre3]

I've spent over a month in focussed preparation for the last update. All my spare time - of which I have a lot, granted - spent on Dante.

I saved plat. Traded for it. Bought some. Farmed forma, new Rivens, watched Devstream 177 multiple times for clues to the correct path for building Dante. Tested a bit, experimented. Time in Sim. Multiple weapon loadouts.

And now, all my resources spent, I could be looking at rebuilding him at best and binning him off at worst. I had a secondary frame and now it's at threat.

I was maining Sevagoth before this... And my experience as a Sevagoth main was that people referred to him as the Gloom Helminth. I love Sevagoth - He got help in his augments. I love how complex he is when you actually understand his kit. He has 7 spells. Just like Dante. And the community called him the Gloom Helminth, some still do. What's my point? Sevagoth is still largely ignored because of how he was treat and how people view him. Some people had their hands burned by how he felt before augments and won't touch him again. Despite how good he is, people will never know and will most likely not take my word...

Dante works out of the box. It was literally like magic. Dante appeared and there it was, a new playstyle that just felt like everything I've wanted. No augments needed. Now we've had a nerf announced. Crippling his build now for a fix we will be sold later perhaps? He is the exact opposite as Sevagoth from a community and mechanical standpoint. But Dante could end up with the same fate if this nerf goes too far. 7 abilities. Nerfed, with maybe one good ability left? A Warframe stands to possibly be shelved because of bad management of his identity. And a Helminth ability that's more useful on other frames than it's progenitor. Looking at you Nezha.

This leaves an incredibly bad taste in my mouth DE. I want you to know this. Being made to feel regret even before we know what the nerf holds. Feeling regret for investing so much in such a small period of time and then being told it can be changed so quickly.

This really blows... Even if I have it all wrong and the nerf is minor, I've still been made to feel like this. I imagine others have too. It's not right.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[EDIT:] Below are my findings for Dante Pre and post nerf with my findings based upon my build.

Overguard generation using Light Verse and Triumph.
Cast strings, amounts and times pre and post nerf:

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 6 casts costing 310 energy in total and approx 5 seconds cast time.

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 18 casts costing 930 energy in total and approx 20 seconds cast time.

(128% Duration 45% efficiency 175% Range 343% Strength) Build was not changed after Nerf.

Edited April 4 by 2wentyThre3

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

I want to try to like Sevagoth, but he's too squishy and, his self revival is worse than the SpoilerMode self revival ability. He looks cool AF. Honestly, it's the wack self revival. That's likely the only think keeping me from playing him.

What build do you use for your Sevagoth?

 

 

 

 

And for everything you said about Dante? I Agree.

Edited April 3 by (XBOX)CaligulaTwily

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

his really blows... Even if I have it all wrong and the nerf is minor, I've still been made to feel like this. I imagine others have too. It's not right.

bruh, it's not that deep.

by "changes" they might just cap his overguard, which to be fair is insane. maybe they'll reduce the damage of his Dark Verse a little too... but they're not gonna nerf him to the ground. you're making out like he's gonna become Caliban with a book, when in reality it'll just be a couple tweaks and the rest of his kit will likely stay as it is. 

at least wait for the changes before you start fretting. as for Sevagoth, I don't mind if people don't know how good he is now (especially with that augment), frames that get slept on are some of the most fun, and even get buffed sometimes (Mag users especially know what I mean).

 

[TARINunit9]

10 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

Now we've had a nerf announced

Citation needed

[JimothyStevens]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Citation needed

 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

bruh, it's not that deep.

by "changes" they might just cap his overguard, which to be fair is insane. maybe they'll reduce the damage of his Dark Verse a little too... but they're not gonna nerf him to the ground. you're making out like he's gonna become Caliban with a book, when in reality it'll just be a couple tweaks and the rest of his kit will likely stay as it is. 

at least wait for the changes before you start fretting. as for Sevagoth, I don't mind if people don't know how good he is now (especially with that augment), frames that get slept on are some of the most fun, and even get buffed sometimes (Mag users especially know what I mean).

 

The problem is that no changes are needed. He's been out for less than a week and we're already talking nerfs? Give it some time to cook. He just came out, is easy to farm and is in a good place, of course everyone is playing him right now. Come back in a month or 2 and really see rather than acting on pure impulse.

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 1 minute, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily a dit :

What build do you use for your Sevagoth?

I have a power strength, augmented Reap build for Sevagoth and a grouping Melee/Health tank build for his Exalted Shadow. It allows me to play two roles/Warframes/playstyles all in one package and flip whenever the mood suits. I can set Goth, the weapons I want and literally have no use for any other Frame except Loki for stealth missions.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

2 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

I have a power strength, augmented Reap build for Sevagoth and a grouping Melee/Health tank build for his Exalted Shadow. It allows me to play two roles/Warframes/playstyles all in one package and flip whenever the mood suits. I can set Goth, the weapons I want and literally have no use for any other Frame except Loki for stealth missions.

Yea, I tried for the same build it sounds like. I wish there was an augment (removal) for his self revival dash 

Edited April 3 by (XBOX)CaligulaTwily

[trst]

Oh cool, so the "muh investment" complaints are already beginning before we even know what'll happen.

 

Boo-hoo he might get some mechanic or numerical tweak. In the end, even if they somehow gutted the frame, he'd still be perfectly fine. And if he somehow required slightly more investment you're down virtually nothing needing to spend an extra Forma or two into a frame nor if you need to think slightly harder as to what you use in your builds. As I guarantee you whatever change they make either the difference and then some could be made up elsewhere in a build and/or the impact on his performance will be unnoticeable.

Also every frame works out of the box so long as you're not using bottom barrel mods and have a vague idea of how to build. And if you know how to build then you can squeeze multiple playstyles out of any frame. But in the case of Sevagoth he never required the 3x Forma investment so many players lamented about. But their own mentality of everything MUST be maxed and all damage MUST be higher regardless of their actual impact is to blame. Which will likely happen to Dante regardless of what DE does anyways.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 minutes ago, JimothyStevens said:

 

The problem is that no changes are needed. He's been out for less than a week and we're already talking nerfs? Give it some time to cook. He just came out, is easy to farm and is in a good place, of course everyone is playing him right now. Come back in a month or 2 and really see rather than acting on pure impulse.

I will concede that 5 days is kind of a speedrun, to be fair, but I still haven't seen any evidence that he's getting any changes drastic enough to warrant fearmongering about which so many people are doing on here. ,also, thankyou for posting the video, saved me a trip to youtube :) 

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 7 minutes, (PSN)robotwars7 a dit :

bruh, it's not that deep.

1500 plat and time spent. It feels deep enough for me to mention it. Thanks for downplaying another persons experience you clearly don't share in though. And no I won't give you a listed itinerary of where and how I spent it. Just know I did.

[UnstarPrime]

19 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

Dante works out of the box. It was literally like magic. Dante appeared and there it was, a new playstyle that just felt like everything I've wanted. No augments needed. Now we've had a nerf announced. Crippling his build now for a fix we will be sold later perhaps?

Rebb said that they were going to "tweak him...a little".  To interpret that as "crippling his build" is hyperbolic to an unhealthy extent.  Please don't do this to yourself.

Here's the full quote; I hope reading these words helps folks relax a bit:

[DE]Rebecca: "Is DE gonna nerf him? I'm just going to lay it to you straight, here's what's happening: We are looking at him and we are reviewing some areas we can tweak down (so a little bit of a nerf) in order to make him not so dominant. That's it.

At this point in time stats for "dominance" really aren't the full picture for us [so] it has to be a little bit instinctual [in response to] feedback because everyone is playing Dante. He's the new, hot, shiny thing and all of his abilities are noticed. We are not doing this with a cavalier mindset. We are going to do a very focused review based on feedback and playstyles and that's it.

[...] We are taking it seriously and we are not trying to make the first five days of Dante the best and only good days. We're just reviewing, please have patience with us in this process. Please do not come to this conversation with shock and awe, because [Dante is] awesome and we want to keep him awesome. The goal is not to change that."

Edited April 3 by UnstarPrime

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 3 minutes, (PSN)robotwars7 a dit :

I still haven't seen any evidence that he's getting any changes drastic enough to warrant fearmongering about which so many people are doing on here

None of us have. But that's the point. As you so adequately put it - this has been speedrun and we have no details at all. Drastic action, minimal communication. It's only amplified, to me personally, by the fact that Dante plays exactly how I wanted him to. They change him too much or nerf him too much and they take away what I was enjoying. Change is self explanatory - but if they nerf him to a point where my Sevagoth - A Warframe people just don't use - outperforms him say, and then what's the point in me even looking for a secondary or new main. A real punch in the mouth after only five days.

[Arbitrary]

1 minute ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

1500 plat and time spent

1500p spent on just Dante? Doesn't check out tbh. The frame: 350p. Let's be generous and assume you applied 7 forma to Dante, and 6 to Noctua. That's 15 forma, which is 5 bundles, so 175p. Let's say you bought the Tome mod pack. That's 140p. That comes out to only 665p. So what else is costing 835p that a theoretical nerf to Dante would "waste".

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 3 minutes, Arbitrary a dit :

1500p spent on just Dante?

Need to go back and read my OP chief. I didn't say just Dante. There were many other things involved.

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 13 minutes, UnstarPrime a dit :

Rebb said that they were going to "tweak him...a little".

Unfortunately I can't do anything but do this to myself. However I hope you're right. Anything beyond a little tweek will not only seem excessive, but will be disheartening.

It's one of two times I've gone all in on a Warframe. The first time other than what people thought, it didn't bother me. I was still having fun. This time I have way more invested and by that same standard, way more to lose.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

9 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

None of us have. But that's the point. As you so adequately put it - this has been speedrun and we have no details at all. Drastic action, minimal communication. It's only amplified, to me personally, by the fact that Dante plays exactly how I wanted him to. They change him too much or nerf him too much and they take away what I was enjoying. Change is self explanatory - but if they nerf him to a point where my Sevagoth - A Warframe people just don't use - outperforms him say, and then what's the point in me even looking for a secondary or new main. A real punch in the mouth after only five days.

I can imagine getting your favourite frame nerfed sucks, but Reb must have stated like 50 times that they love Dante as he is and are just going to do minor tweaks so that he isn't objectively stronger than several other frames. you're acting like any change is going to instantly make him irrelevant, when for all we know they might cap his overguard and reduce dark verses damage by like 5% and then call it a day..

2 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

t's one of two times I've gone all in on a Warframe. The first time other than what people thought, it didn't bother me. I was still having fun. This time I have way more invested and by that same standard, way more to lose.

and that's why you've got to think twice before going "all-in" on a frame, because at the end of the day, they can and will be changed at some point: the frame you get on release is rarely the same frame you get months or years later, that's just a fact. 

[C11H22O1]

Chill we don't even know what's going to change, wait for the changes and play him after the changes and see if it's truly bad.

Be more conscious of your money in the future if you're freaking out over the investment

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Goodbye Dante.. was nice knowing you. 

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 2 minutes, (PSN)robotwars7 a dit :

I can imagine getting your favourite frame nerfed sucks, but Reb must have stated like 50 times that they love Dante as he is and are just going to do minor tweaks so that he isn't objectively stronger than several other frames. you're acting like any change is going to instantly make him irrelevant, when for all we know they might cap his overguard and reduce dark verses damage by like 5% and then call it a day..

I'd take both of those changes. But ambiguity is still ambiguity. That said I'm a hopeful pessimist, unfortunately the pessimism tends to win most of the time especially when all the cards are on the table.
 

il y a 5 minutes, (PSN)robotwars7 a dit :

that's why you've got to think twice before going "all-in" on a frame, because at the end of the day, they can and will be changed at some point: the frame you get on release is rarely the same frame you get months or years later, that's just a fact. 

Hindsight is always twenty twenty... This would be my first example in nearly 11 years of it feeling bad and therefore being the experience I needed to now know what you clearly know better than I did. Accepting that fact and knowing it though, two different things aren't they? It's unfortunate. But you are right. Having this feeling will certainly be remembered and will allow me to think twice in future.

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 4 minutes, C11H22O1 a dit :

Be more conscious of your money in the future if you're freaking out over the investment

An easy thing to say.
It's the first time I've invested in something and had to second guess it because someone has altered the terms so close to the transactions end. But noted. I have definitely learned something from all of this.

[Pakaku]

I'm not surprised we'd see changes around now, especially for what everyone seemed to be saying was an OP frame

[Arbitrary]

25 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

Need to go back and read my OP chief. I didn't say just Dante. There were many other things involved.

All of those things other things will still be there, untouched after any changes though. Your plat and time won't be "wasted". You specifically mention rivens, but rivens don't have any relevance to any Dante changes. So your 1500p receipt still doesn't check out.

[Tiltskillet]

59 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I will concede that 5 days is kind of a speedrun, to be fair,

Oh, we've been down this road before.  If DE thinks they need to do it...so much better to alert people within a week of release and do it fast.  Rather than wait months. 

And of course the longer DE waits, the more people will accuse them of only nerfing Dante once almost everybody has him and there are other things they want to push.

 

 

 

[RichardKam]

Tenno, DE said they are looking into it. No need to jump to the conclusion when you don't even know what is the conclusion yet.

Remember nourish nerf? It was literally nothing dude.

[JimothyStevens]

4 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

To interpret that as "crippling his build" is hyperbolic to an unhealthy extent.

Except DE has a long history of doing just that. Popular thing to nerf so no one ever uses.