LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

[nicolajtheking2]

Just now, artistredmdlee said:

 

Wasn't it that this entire situation happen because the "playerbase" was calling for a nerf xD

There was a SMALL amount of players who was crying for SLIGHT nerfs for the overguard he gives to teammates, nothing like this.

[Snake]

LOS Sucks: Every time DE adds it in any way = Heavy handed Nurf.

Lite Tweaks? - Bwahahahahahahaha!

Seems like Devs where moving the right direction with This Warframe: But LOOK WHAT YOU DID! and learn what spoils the fun.

In high level Steel Path this was not that strong anyway.

REMOVE LINE OF SIGHT COMPLETELY

Edited April 5 by Snake

[artistredmdlee]

Just now, Waeleto said:

Define "playerbase"

Is it 10 angry people on the forums ? 
(mind you those 10 angry people ask for everything to be nerfed not just dante)

Ah yes the 10 people who are speaking as if they represent or share the opinion of the entire community

[Gandalf_White]

12 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

 

We appreciate the video, since it showcases the problem with the current Line of Sight checks in a very analytical and accurate way.  However, the behavior in the video is what is being fixed. See attached video for the upcoming improvements to how we check for LOS that were mentioned in the first post.

I don't understand why are you all trying to push this LoS so badly onto his Tragedy? IT ALREADY HAS A SOFT LOS! YOU NEED TO PRIME ENEMIES WITH STATUS FROM HIS 3 WHICH IS LOS. YOU CANNOT NUKE WITHOUT THAT ON ANYTHING THAT IS HIGHER THAN LVL 30. He does NOT need a DOUBLE LOS CHECK. All it does is makes him ANNOYING to use. Being able to mark one group with one use of 3 and another group with another 3, then kill them with 4 was awesome, fun, Dante felt like a chad to use without being too OP. Unlike other, stronger nuke frames, you had to do some preparation to be able to nuke with Dante. Now you can't even do that because you need to have them in view, slowly deleting one group at a time. Why would I use his abilities at that point when my guns can clear out said group 5 times faster!? Jesus.

 

This is so. ungodly. frustrating. I've been waiting for a wizard themed frame ever since 2016, I love wizards as you might have guessed from my nickname. I fashion framed my Dante to look as closely to Gandalf as I could. And now what? Now he's useless. Unfun. And he will be like that even after the supposed "fix". 

Edited April 5 by Gandalf_White

[AR_Has]

4 minutes ago, Gandalf_White said:

I don't understand why are you all trying to push this LoS so badly onto his Tragedy? IT ALREADY HAS A SOFT LOS! YOU NEED TO PRIME ENEMIES WITH STATUS FROM HIS 3 WHICH IS LOS. YOU CANNOT NUKE WITHOUT THAT ON ANYTHING THAT IS HIGHER THAN LVL 30

they wont listen , DE is famous for being pride and ego if u fight them on something , they will put their foot down and insist on los , even though they know they r wrong , they cant have us think they owe us something

Edited April 5 by AR_Has

[NexNavarus]

Honestly I'd rather have the range on tragedy reduced, LoS requirement removed. OG either reverted but removed from teammates, or slightly less turned down

[Tuna4242]

55 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

the REAL show begins today when the new hotfix arrives, will they listen or will they ignore feedback YET AGAIN 

I really think they will just do what THEY want and not what their players want, and they make the game so at the end of the day it is kind of their choice above anyone else's. However, it really looks like "we want player feedback" was a ruse to just get the nerfs DE wanted, because these nerfs are not consistent with any feedback that I have witnessed that isn't purely fearmongering about 40k overguard in base starchart. Sadly, I do not think DE cares what we think, when I listen to DE it sounds like they aren't genuine about wanting feedback because their changes do not reflect player feedback.
 

[-Felix-sama-]

Fully revert the changes,

and make tragedy only kill enemies who have actually been affected by your 3 (e.g. by reducing the base damage of the ability, but leaving the status detonation untouched).

This stops people trivializing normal path with 70m explosions, but leaves him as strong in SP as before.

[Aiden85]

LOS is terrible it doesn't work properly and it never has. 

[Snake]

12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We are still actively reading your feedback and encourage you to continue to share your constructive thoughts after spending time playing Dante with the changes. Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts with us thus far!

 

What I don't understand is how you can release a new harder game mode to put your builds to the test + a round of Nurfs to hurt those builds. Do you not want people to have fun? Sure balance makes things difficult but always at the cost of fun and is a poor substitute for just developing better enemy AI.

I thought this was a power fantasy...

[Zeow31]

il y a 2 minutes, Snake a dit :

What I don't understand is how you can release a new harder game mode to put your builds to the test + a round of Nurfs to hurt those builds. Do you not want people to have fun? Sure balance makes things difficult but always at the cost of fun and is a poor substitute for just developing better enemy AI.

I thought this was a power fantasy...

"It's a power fantasy but only if you play Saryn, Octavia, Mesa, Styanax, Wisp or Kullervo, otherwise you can get bent" - DE

[LioncubPrime]

Honestly I don't want to be a Karen and speak out like this. But people here in this forum, please consider this: You spend your real money into a game to have yourself a joyous time, and then your joy was taken away by the same service you have paid for. This is for those who spent their own money to buy the Dante package, isn't this implying that your money was not well spent?
Anyway, I hope players will have what they deserve rather than having their joy and fun stolen away right in front of your eyes. I think players need to reconsider after this patch if they don't make and fix this right, you should say no to what hurt you and walk away. It has been years of fun, but maybe they are becoming another game that we can't recognize anymore.
Just think about it.

[Circle_of_Psi]

13 hours ago, Ocerkin said:

full revert, cut the OG given to teammates, thats the only thing that people were asking for

This ^

Here is what I think needs to be changed (see below:)

Psi's Dante Balance Changes

After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needs to be addressed or his accumulation of Overguard. It's how he affects his allies and how disruptive he is to his squad.

To that end, we have decided to do a full revert on Dante's Balance changes and have made new changes based on your Feedback!, we're truly sorry that our adjustments nerfed him into the ground. However, finding balance isn’t found simply in the nerfs, but also in the buffs! So we have also given a little bit of love to all his kit!

• Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%. (Unchanged) 
  • The Wordwarden felt a bit lacklustre in comparison to the rest of Dante’s abilities, so we gave it a boost to encourage players to experiment and engage with it more. 
• Final Verse’s “Tragedy” no longer has Line of Sight.
  • This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since Line of Sight is broken and Dante was impacted by it. 
• Final Verse’s “Triumph” no longer gives Overguard to his squad. (Note: Dante's Pets can still be given Overguard) 
  • For a bit of compensation, we increased Triumph’s base Overguard Regeneration per second from 50 to 100 at Max Rank for Dante Only (can still be modified with Ability Strength). This is to ensure he is no longer disruptive to his squad that relies on mod setups (Exp: Rage) to function.
• Light Verse can no longer gives Overguard to his squad!
• Added Overguard note on his Final Verse’s “Triumph” description to make it clear that his Light Verse and Triumph can't affect his squad
• Final Verse’s “Pageflight” still now applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms. 
  • For the sake of transparency, We believe its removal strikes were unjust and not ideal for a better balance and synergy with Status Damage inflicted by Tragedy.

 

If players -really- want his Overguard to affect allies for a situation that calls for it then allow Rage mods (and other versions) to work with Overguard or add a function that allies Allies to Opt-in-out of his Overguard with either an Augment or otherwise.

 

-Psi

 

P.S: Since Overguard no longer affects his allies, the only compensation I can think of FOR his allies is that the HP healed based on max health is boosted quite a bit, so he can still remain has somewhat of a support class by healing his teammates.

Edited April 5 by Circle_of_Psi

[AR_Has]

this has to be a late april fools joke  , you literally said the damage was not the problem then two sentences after you back handedly nerf his damage? what is this bipolar behavior

[Waeleto]

2 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

This ^

Here is what I think needs to be changed (see below:)

Psi's Dante Balance Changes

After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needs to be addressed or his accumulation of Overguard. It's how he affects his allies and how disruptive he is to his squad.

To that end, we have decided to do a full revert on Dante's Balance changes and have made new changes based on your Feedback!, we're truly sorry that our adjustments nerfed him into the ground. However, finding balance isn’t found simply in the nerfs, but also in the buffs! So we have also given a little bit of love to all his kit!

• Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%. (Unchanged) 
  • The Wordwarden felt a bit lacklustre in comparison to the rest of Dante’s abilities, so we gave it a boost to encourage players to experiment and engage with it more. 
• Final Verse’s “Tragedy” no longer has Line of Sight.
  • This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since Line of Sight is broken and Dante was impacted by it. 
• Final Verse’s “Triumph” no longer gives Overguard to his squad. (Note: Dante's Pets can still be given Overguard) 
  • For a bit of compensation, we increased Triumph’s base Overguard Regeneration per second from 50 to 100 at Max Rank (can still be modified with Ability Strength). This is to ensure he is no longer disruptive to his squad that relies on mod setups (Exp: Rage) to function.
• Light Verse can no longer give Overguard to his squad!
• Added Overguard note on his Final Verse’s “Triumph” description to make it clear that his Light Verse and Triumph can't affect his squad
• Final Verse’s “Pageflight” still now applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms. 
  • For the sake of transparency, We believe its removal strikes were unjust and not ideal for a better balance and synergy with Status Damage inflicted by Tragedy.

 

If players -really- want his Overguard to affect allies for a situation that calls for it then allow Rage mods (and other versions) to work with Overguard or add a function that allies Allies to Opt-in-out of his Overguard with either an Augment or otherwise.

 

-Psi

I agree 100%, people complained about the overguard dante GIVES to allies so they proceeded to nerf HIS OWN overguard by 60%, that was so disrespectful and uncalled for

No need for me to even talk about tragedy nerfs that is just hilarious, this whole situation feels like a circus

[Digital_Malz]

13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We've been poring over your comments regarding the balance changes to Dante. We want to reiterate that we are paying close attention to player feedback and taking these conversations very seriously. As with everything in Warframe, iteration is always possible, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on how Dante feels now that these alterations are in your hands. 

One of the clearest pain points from the community is the inconsistencies in Tragedy’s Line of Sight (LOS) checks, and we can confirm that the following changes are already on deck for an upcoming hotfix: 

• Tragedy not hitting ragdolled enemies that are within LOS

• Increasing the number of LOS checks per enemy to improve the reliability of marginal hits 

We are still actively reading your feedback and encourage you to continue to share your constructive thoughts after spending time playing Dante with the changes. Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts with us thus far!

--
To add to the above, it's very obvious to us, as it is with players, that Tragedy's LOS is clearly not in an ideal state due to the bugs we listed above. It's not working as intended and we want to remedy that as soon as we can. Once the fixes go live, we'll be watching for your thoughts as you experience it the way was designed to function.  

 

We don't want you to fix this LOS issue, we want you to revert this stupid decision. READ the feedback you're getting from community. We DON'T want this stupid LOS. 

[Drachnyn]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

As with everything in Warframe, iteration is always possible, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on how Dante feels now that these alterations are in your hands. 

This feels very hollow and dishonest when looking at stuff like the theorem arcanes. Y'all will do literally nothing unless the community goes up in flames. 

[Twisted_Wisdom]

6 hours ago, TheTundraTerror said:

I honestly can't believe people are calling for Ally Overguard amounts to be nerfed because ONE frame and TWO mods are negatively impacted. How about instead of making the ability worse or needing more bandaids than a paper mill, we update Chroma to the current decade and let Rage/HA work off Overguard because (as is) Overguard has nothing going for it beyond it's super short gating. It doesn't get DR which means it gets shredded like harder than Rich Piana beyond double digit enemy levels.

Those that have a problem with the spread of Dante's Overguard, now get to join the players that have issue with not being able to play warframe as they like because of Volt and Wisp's speed buffs aggravating simulator sickness. Get used to disappointment because DE doesn't give a damn.
If players don't want to experience another warframe's 'buffs' they have no option other than to avoid being in group with said 'problem' warframes.

[KaosKuantico]

hace 44 minutos, Circle_of_Psi dijo:

This ^

Here is what I think needs to be changed (see below:)

Psi's Dante Balance Changes

After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needs to be addressed or his accumulation of Overguard. It's how he affects his allies and how disruptive he is to his squad.

To that end, we have decided to do a full revert on Dante's Balance changes and have made new changes based on your Feedback!, we're truly sorry that our adjustments nerfed him into the ground. However, finding balance isn’t found simply in the nerfs, but also in the buffs! So we have also given a little bit of love to all his kit!

• Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%. (Unchanged) 
  • The Wordwarden felt a bit lacklustre in comparison to the rest of Dante’s abilities, so we gave it a boost to encourage players to experiment and engage with it more. 
• Final Verse’s “Tragedy” no longer has Line of Sight.
  • This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since Line of Sight is broken and Dante was impacted by it. 
• Final Verse’s “Triumph” no longer gives Overguard to his squad. (Note: Dante's Pets can still be given Overguard) 
  • For a bit of compensation, we increased Triumph’s base Overguard Regeneration per second from 50 to 100 at Max Rank for Dante Only (can still be modified with Ability Strength). This is to ensure he is no longer disruptive to his squad that relies on mod setups (Exp: Rage) to function.
• Light Verse can no longer gives Overguard to his squad!
• Added Overguard note on his Final Verse’s “Triumph” description to make it clear that his Light Verse and Triumph can't affect his squad
• Final Verse’s “Pageflight” still now applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms. 
  • For the sake of transparency, We believe its removal strikes were unjust and not ideal for a better balance and synergy with Status Damage inflicted by Tragedy.

 

If players -really- want his Overguard to affect allies for a situation that calls for it then allow Rage mods (and other versions) to work with Overguard or add a function that allies Allies to Opt-in-out of his Overguard with either an Augment or otherwise.

 

-Psi

 

P.S: Since Overguard no longer affects his allies, the only compensation I can think of FOR his allies is that the HP healed based on max health is boosted quite a bit, so he can still remain has somewhat of a support class by healing his teammates.

If only this could bee the official hotfix. I would be fine as long as they remove the Line of Sight 

[RivaAurelius]

14 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We've been poring over your comments regarding the balance changes to Dante. We want to reiterate that we are paying close attention to player feedback and taking these conversations very seriously. As with everything in Warframe, iteration is always possible, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on how Dante feels now that these alterations are in your hands. 

One of the clearest pain points from the community is the inconsistencies in Tragedy’s Line of Sight (LOS) checks, and we can confirm that the following changes are already on deck for an upcoming hotfix: 

• Tragedy not hitting ragdolled enemies that are within LOS

• Increasing the number of LOS checks per enemy to improve the reliability of marginal hits 

We are still actively reading your feedback and encourage you to continue to share your constructive thoughts after spending time playing Dante with the changes. Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts with us thus far!

--
To add to the above, it's very obvious to us, as it is with players, that Tragedy's LOS is clearly not in an ideal state due to the bugs we listed above. It's not working as intended and we want to remedy that as soon as we can. Once the fixes go live, we'll be watching for your thoughts as you experience it the way was designed to function.  

 

This isn't good enough. Dante needs to have his changes reverted.

 

Edit: just want to voice my agreement with a sentiment I'm seeing here. We don't want LOS fixed, we don't want LOS PERIOD. We want Dante in his original state.

Edited April 5 by RivaAurelius
Adding a point

[Siic07]

Remove OG from allies and that was the only nerf that people were asking for, it's simple, very simple, reverte the nerfs on Dante

[Waeleto]

Just now, Siic07 said:

Remove OG from allies and that was the only nerf that people were asking for, it's simple, very simple, reverte the nerfs on Dante

Say it louder cause it seems they're either not hearing it or don't want to

[RivaAurelius]

14 hours ago, (PSN)jcodybunch said:

How is it fair to nerf a brand new frame right after the community has just spent resources and real money on it? That's gonna  kill any future enthusiasm for new frame releases. 

I will not be dropping any money on Jade the way I did on Dante unless these changes are rolled back. This is one of the worst bait and switches I've seen since the Doom Eternal Anti-cheat drama.

[sithis19]

Just adding my voice to others here. LOS and OG nerfs need to go for Dante himself. If you must keep the OG nerf for ally's then whatever I guess. 

As it currently is, no way in hell am I going to buy accessory packs or rush new frames if this stands. 

 

And just to end on this point, there are several frames that do mass group damage that are not LOS and frankly do Dante's job better, there is no justification for this.

[Snake]

1 hour ago, Zeow31 said:

"It's a power fantasy but only if you play Saryn, Octavia, Mesa, Styanax, Wisp or Kullervo, otherwise you can get bent" - DE

True