Adding more engagement to the core gameplay

[NOsPL]

What do You think about adding more small, timing based activities, similar to Tennokai? Few ideas: 
1) active reloads - similar to the drifter mode, but for the primaries and secondaries.
2) active finishers. Some units can be killed only through special type of finisher - when you activate it, you have to press combination of arrow keys (like stratagems in Helldivers 2) and its time limited. If you make it right, you kill the enemy and you cause some AOE effect that debuffs/procs/kills nearby enemies. If you mess it up, you get debuffed/damaged/killed. Combination length increases/time limit decreases with the enemy level.
3) special units can grab you and you have to press arrow keys combination to escape. Similar to active finishers, AOE effect on success.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb NOsPL:

What do You think about adding more small, timing based activities, similar to Tennokai? Few ideas: 
1) active reloads - similar to the drifter mode, but for the primaries and secondaries.
2) active finishers. Some units can be killed only through special type of finisher - when you activate it, you have to press combination of arrow keys (like stratagems in Helldivers 2) and its time limited. If you make it right, you kill the enemy and you cause some AOE effect that debuffs/procs/kills nearby enemies. If you mess it up, you get debuffed/damaged/killed. Combination length increases/time limit decreases with the enemy level.
3) special units can grab you and you have to press arrow keys combination to escape. Similar to active finishers, AOE effect on success.

doesn't work because that's a different game.
when it comes to adventure - definitely!

But in the current Warframe content, in the end it's all about "shooting everyone quickly". Any cc or mini puzzles are just annoying

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Those sound horrible to me, no offense... just not what I play Warframe for...

minigames, quicktime events,... my most dreaded thing in JRPGs... usually reserved for obtaining ultimate weapons and junk... I generally bashed my head/thumbs into the wall until I got it right ONE TIME... let alone making it a core element of a game...

[Loza03]

Active reloading is pretty fun on the Sirroco, so that I could see. As for the quicktime events, nah. They work in Helldivers because Helldivers is intentionally trying to create the panicky feeling of handling fiddly equipment in a firefight. That's not the vibe Warframe's trying to sell.

[Pakaku]

QTEs will get old super quickly in a game that expects you to repeatedly replay missions for the grind

Sirroco style reloads would be fine in tasteful amounts, per weapon. Some bows also have "perfect shots".

This also made me think of how the Corinth tends to knock enemies upwards, and I'd like something like a gimmick that buffs hits on launched enemies.

[Genitive]

Points 2 and 3 would be supper annoying and disruptive to gameplay.

Point 1 could work if they added a weapon like that.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I think these are interesting and fun ideas... but they may work better as unique interactions, for different or specialised tools, like specific weapons or potential Warframes. Like Sirocco has something similar, as does the Nataruk. You can also get a Decree in Duviri that can make finishers affect enemies in proximity. The reason I would limit it though, is not everyone wants to play that way, and that would potentially clash and conflict with many other goals and systems already in the game. So if you make it opt in systems, then people who might enjoy it, can engage with it, and those that don't, can avoid/opt out. 

Having a weapon with that as a gimmick, could be fun, a Warframe with that sort of finisher or interaction with enemies, likewise. All weapons and Warframes though? To put it another way, I like Lavos, but I definitely understand those that do not like infusing elements. Imagine if all Warframes had to mix their abilities? More engaging, but many people would just quit the game. I love the Nataruk, but most days I just like taking weapons that shoot, no active timing mini game present. 

I think you generally want the core gameplay to appeal to the general base, and as inclusive to as many different play styles. Its through choices, that you can get more interesting and niche with such ideas, which is also something they already generally tend to do. Lots of different tools, can shape gameplay (like having some Arcanes and Mods that encourage more finishers, weapons that have timing elements), so more of them could be nice. 

[0_The_F00l]

We already have QTE at home

QTE at home: mercy and lich parazon finishers,

We also have conditional reload effects too (sirroco has it , reload from empty grants specific buffs depending on weapon/mods)

I wouldnt mind some special reload mods

[TeaHands]

I was really hoping the Sirroco would lead to some mods that have different Active Reload bonuses. Like it adds a random element (that doesn't mess with your current element setup) to your Magazine on Perfect Reload or your next shot will Ricochet to nearby enemies on Perfect Reload.

It's such a cool mechanic that actuallu makes me look forward to reloading, can't say any other game makes me feel that.

[Raarsi]

4 hours ago, NOsPL said:

What do You think about adding more small, timing based activities, similar to Tennokai? Few ideas: 
1) active reloads - similar to the drifter mode, but for the primaries and secondaries.
2) active finishers. Some units can be killed only through special type of finisher - when you activate it, you have to press combination of arrow keys (like stratagems in Helldivers 2) and its time limited. If you make it right, you kill the enemy and you cause some AOE effect that debuffs/procs/kills nearby enemies. If you mess it up, you get debuffed/damaged/killed. Combination length increases/time limit decreases with the enemy level.
3) special units can grab you and you have to press arrow keys combination to escape. Similar to active finishers, AOE effect on success.

How dare you try to make me think in my game of mindlessly making thousands of enemies wrap up all their living.

Maaaaaaaaaaybe a couple of these could apply to specific weapons or boss-type enemy events, but definitely not a general thing.  If I wanted to play something that made me have to put in some dumb string of commands, I'd just play a Konami game.

[helioth137]

5 hours ago, NOsPL said:

What do You think about adding more small, timing based activities, similar to Tennokai? Few ideas: 
1) active reloads - similar to the drifter mode, but for the primaries and secondaries.
2) active finishers. Some units can be killed only through special type of finisher - when you activate it, you have to press combination of arrow keys (like stratagems in Helldivers 2) and its time limited. If you make it right, you kill the enemy and you cause some AOE effect that debuffs/procs/kills nearby enemies. If you mess it up, you get debuffed/damaged/killed. Combination length increases/time limit decreases with the enemy level.
3) special units can grab you and you have to press arrow keys combination to escape. Similar to active finishers, AOE effect on success.

Solid suggestions!

would love to see active block. 

I honestly don't think having it on right mouse button and forcing players to essentially have "real melee mode" active is a good design philosophy. 

I love melee but I also enjoy the utility of quick shots, so I'm nearly always in that hybrid mode & block is an underused feature for me. 

I'll make some block builds with shields because they deserve some love, but yeah, wish they would put it on a seperate button like B. 

 

[Poloslash18]

What I think they should do is speed up Mercy finisher animations because you go as fast as possible then come a full stop to do a backflip in an animation where you were doing the same triple backflip at top speed in normal gameplay.

[OniDax]

Kinda sounds like making the gameplay more tedious. That's not engaging, imo. To make the core gameplay more engaging, I think the core gameplay mechanics need to be improved and enemy behavior needs to be improved.

What would make my gameplay more engaging would be to improve the movement animations and aiming animations to be something much smoother and more natural like in COD MW 2/3 than the stiff, unnatural movements we currently have.

The gameplay would be more engaging if enemies would be more aggressive and verbal. Make enemies sprint and crouch during combat, like they do in COD MW2/3. Make enemies verbally respond to our actions, like enemies do in The Division 2.

What would make the gameplay more engaging is if the gameplay space was more of a sandbox where there were gameplay items we could pick up and use in the gameplay space, like some heavy enemy weapons lying around.

I think fun engagement involves making the gameplay more immersive and giving players more gameplay tools.

[NOsPL]

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I think these are interesting and fun ideas... but they may work better as unique interactions, for different or specialised tools, like specific weapons or potential Warframes. Like Sirocco has something similar, as does the Nataruk. You can also get a Decree in Duviri that can make finishers affect enemies in proximity. The reason I would limit it though, is not everyone wants to play that way, and that would potentially clash and conflict with many other goals and systems already in the game. So if you make it opt in systems, then people who might enjoy it, can engage with it, and those that don't, can avoid/opt out. 

Having a weapon with that as a gimmick, could be fun, a Warframe with that sort of finisher or interaction with enemies, likewise. All weapons and Warframes though? To put it another way, I like Lavos, but I definitely understand those that do not like infusing elements. Imagine if all Warframes had to mix their abilities? More engaging, but many people would just quit the game. I love the Nataruk, but most days I just like taking weapons that shoot, no active timing mini game present. 

I think you generally want the core gameplay to appeal to the general base, and as inclusive to as many different play styles. Its through choices, that you can get more interesting and niche with such ideas, which is also something they already generally tend to do. Lots of different tools, can shape gameplay (like having some Arcanes and Mods that encourage more finishers, weapons that have timing elements), so more of them could be nice. 

Hmm I think you're right. Especially 2) and 3) are to extreme for the core gameplay. I thought about adding it to the new mode like Deep Archimedea, but it would probably not be worth of time and effort to implement these types of mechanics just for one game mode. 

[PrideB4TheFall]

Perhaps a stance melee combo that ends with a parazon strike to disable Eximus Overshields, creating a stun. Follow up with a finisher.

Edited April 16 by PrideB4TheFall

[ominumi]

If I can't wipe the map with one button I don't care. Mesa go brrrr.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

So you just listed off a bunch of stuff from Helldivers. How about you just play that game instead of trying to turn Warframe into something else.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Ace-Bounty-Hunter:

So you just listed off a bunch of stuff from Helldivers. How about you just play that game instead of trying to turn Warframe into something else.

"Helldivers" is a very specific term. I, and I'm sure many others, don't fully understand it. Therefore the whole message is incomprehensible.
Can it be said otherwise?

[trst]

There's a fine line between engagement and just interrupting gameplay. Which is exactly what QTEs do to games that overuse them.

That said active reloads only make sense as it's already a gimmick the game has and could be an easy way to reuse the TennoKai system for guns. Or Hek just making it an extension of the Kai system with Kai mods that trigger off gun kills on enemies, letting you get the free heavy attack without focusing solely on melee.

As for the other suggestions they sound like gimmicks that would be more appropriate for more infrequent encounters like bosses and/or relegated to specific mission types. Kinda like how hacking is usually optional/missing from most missions but is a required for some like Rescue/Spy. Or how the entire Requiem system is only used for Lich/Sisters. Like maybe having a miniboss like the assassins that can be killed faster with a QTE gimmick or brute forced by pushing through multiple health bars with transition invulnerability.

 

Also as for the Helldivers comparison some are harping over; QTEs are a very old video game system. It doesn't really matter if a recent game uses a similar system when many many other games use the exact same system and there'll be many more that also use it.

Edited April 16 by trst

[Varzin13]

1. I'll (probably) never say no to unobtrusive new content. What I like about Tennokai is that you aren't punished for missing the window, you just don't get the bonus. It's an extra thing you CAN do but by no means NEED to do and you aren't put in a worse position for doing it wrong, this means the player's combat momentum is usually always maintained no matter what. So as long as I don't get a worse-then-normal reload for missing the window, I'd be all for active reloads.

2. I don't think requiring special QTEs is a good idea. Instead maybe a very short QTE flashes during the finisher and if you press the right buttons before the finisher ends you get a bonus like +50 energy or higher quality loot from that kill?

3. We already have a few enemies that can physically trip up the player and to the best of my knowledge most people kinda hate them, I don't see being grabbed as a very popular new addition.

All in all I like the general idea of making moment to moment gameplay more interactive as long as it doesn't intrude on what's already good about the current systems.

[cralo100]

I think DE has already done this with the new corpus ship tileset: The granum void.

It's an optional side-objective avaible in nearly all corpus ship missions (although i'm not sure if there is a concrete possibility of a hand not appearing in interception and defense).

I wish DE added this more to normal missions. On Earth, being able to fish and tranquilize certain creatures that spawn. I think the creature spawns should remain somewhat rare, 1-2 between 3 missions. Fishing is ok though, just stay near the body of water and they'll spawn.

Grineer shipyard: Being able to perform a puzzle to destroy certain prototype machinery and earn decent rewards (5k credits, 200 endo, maybe even 100+ kuva.) If you're already experienced at it, it shouldn't take more than 40 seconds to complete though. It's meant to be optional, not avoidable.

Edited April 17 by cralo100

[OniDax]

10 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

So you just listed off a bunch of stuff from Helldivers. How about you just play that game instead of trying to turn Warframe into something else.

Only the part about arrow keys sounds like Helldivers. The rest doesn't, Helldivers doesn't really have QTEs. That's what it sounds like the OP wants. And it's a terrible idea. It's not at all how a good developer makes gameplay more engaging.

[PublikDomain]

20 hours ago, NOsPL said:

1) active reloads - similar to the drifter mode, but for the primaries and secondaries.

Come to think of it, I'm surprised we don't have perfect-reload mechanics. Like you say we've got them on the Drifter, and there are also similar perfect-shot mechanics like on Naratuk. This would be nice, and DE could then add mods and Arcanes that have "on perfect reload" conditions.

20 hours ago, NOsPL said:

2) active finishers. Some units can be killed only through special type of finisher - when you activate it, you have to press combination of arrow keys (like stratagems in Helldivers 2) and its time limited. If you make it right, you kill the enemy and you cause some AOE effect that debuffs/procs/kills nearby enemies. If you mess it up, you get debuffed/damaged/killed. Combination length increases/time limit decreases with the enemy level.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of multi-button QTEs, though we do already have some "mash E" QTEs in a few places. I wouldn't really mind if it's for really big enemies like Necramechs, Exploiter, Jackal, Archons, etc. They'd need to add in failure states, or maybe the QTE only speeds it up. Either way it'd be more interesting than sitting around watching the cutscene play out.

I definitely think standard Parazons ought to be spiced up as well. Enemies that are open to the Parazon should become downed like we do, where they stop taking damage but then bleed out after a few seconds. Then if you do take the time to run over and Parazon them they'll drop an additional loot roll on top of whatever Parazon mod effects you have. And then there could be medic units that can pick up downed heavies!

Special units that do special things when finished would be neat as well. Say you Parazon a Guardian Eximus so it boosts nearby players overshields. Parazon an Energy Leech and it restores a little energy. It'd be nice to have enemies you actively seek out to kill not because they're dangerous, but because killing them will give you something you want.

20 hours ago, NOsPL said:

3) special units can grab you and you have to press arrow keys combination to escape. Similar to active finishers, AOE effect on success.

We actually have this! Sort of. Units like Ancients and Scorpions can grapple you, and then you can actively break out of their drag. I think it's just broken right now and either auto-completes or has a really easy activation condition like just pushing melee. Un-neutering these enemies would be nice to see so they're actually engaging. There are also enemies like the Ropalolyst which currently have an unbreakable grab which could definitely do with a "mash E" QTE to escape, and player Bonewidows can already do a grab-and-carry so enemy Bonewidows could probably do it to us which would be cool. Liches can grab you too, so a QTE to escape would be nice.

I also find it funny that there are so many of the typical "not in my Warframe" and "just go play XYZ instead" when these are all things Warframe already has in one form or another.

Edited April 17 by PublikDomain