a plea to DE; please un nerf the Bramma's ammo

[Raarsi]

Is aiming really that hard?

_{(Says the Torid Incarnon enjoyer...)}

[Mr.Holyroller]

All the AOE weapons need their ammo un-nerfed. 

Its a joke that aoe weapon's ammo has been dropped so low they feel useless when Glaives and incarnon aoe weapons exist.

[Cram_Duahcim]

If your having ammo problems I feel bad for you son, but I've got 99 Problems but ammo ain't one 🤣.

The only time ammo is a problem is if your using Wukong. Outside of that it's a non issue.

Edited April 23 by Cram_Duahcim

[trst]

1 hour ago, hviewerh said:

I don't get why people want Self Damage back other than buff up Chroma strategy, but maybe DE should introduce another mod like "Suicide Shot"; remove staggers but able to deal damage to user by 10%(min rank) to 100%(max rank).

Balance and attempting to reign in some of what ruined public missions.

In short when there's zero drawback to using a weapon that hits 10+ enemies per shot vs 1-3 enemies per shot there's really no reason to use the non-AOE weapon. Variety/viability suffers thanks to AOE having nothing to make it not the default option.

And pubs have been ruined by mindless AOE spam. Self damage might at least stop those who're only interested in the bare minimum amount of effort from exclusively using AOE weapons which would cut down most of their usage. All that'd really be needed beyond that is LoS for all nuke abilities and pubs might be playable again.

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-04-21 at 7:50 AM, Slayer-. said:

NO!

Yes. 

Acceltra Prime already does what the Bramma does, exist fully automatic with a faster fire rate. 

No reason for the Bramma to be unusable when its already been power crept 

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-04-22 at 7:37 PM, hviewerh said:

I don't get why people want Self Damage back other than buff up Chroma strategy, but maybe DE should introduce another mod like "Suicide Shot"; remove staggers but able to deal damage to user by 10%(min rank) to 100%(max rank).

Chroma doesn't even need it. He can just buff himself with melee and ranged kills now.

[AzureTerra]

On 2024-04-23 at 11:37 AM, hviewerh said:

I don't get why people want Self Damage back other than buff up Chroma strategy, but maybe DE should introduce another mod like "Suicide Shot"; remove staggers but able to deal damage to user by 10%(min rank) to 100%(max rank).

Because there was always a degree of competency that came with using one well and not blowing your self up, some people just couldn't manage it and now its just LOLspam the room with Boom. That a weapon can be utterly devastating to enemies but merely inconvenience the user for shooting at their feet is just silly.

Edited April 24 by AzureTerra
double post oddly

[Slayer-.]

 

4 hours ago, HeavyFarms said:

Yes. 

Acceltra Prime already does what the Bramma does, exist fully automatic with a faster fire rate. 

No reason for the Bramma to be unusable when its already been power crept 

Get real those weapons are not even comparable in the first place.

answer is still 

On 2024-04-21 at 11:50 PM, Slayer-. said:

NO!

 

[Karyst]

On 2024-04-21 at 4:32 PM, Voltage said:

The real problem is that they singled out a few weapons instead of looking at the weapon family as a whole. The only reason the Bramma nerf can feel stupid to some players is because of things like Tenet Envoy. Honestly, it's still fine though. There's still a huge presence of these weapons, especially Kuva Ogris.

Because of napalm augment

[PollexMessier]

On 2024-04-22 at 6:37 PM, hviewerh said:

I don't get why people want Self Damage back other than buff up Chroma strategy

Because taking damage is less annoying than ether knockback resistance being a requirement, or getting knocked on your back because your companion or temate decided to walk in front of you just as you fired.

And there are other fun synergies it could have outside of chroma (if DE doesn't decide to make self damage not trigger on-damage effects because they hate fun)

It had the benefit of being able to down yourself on purpose which is necessary sometimes when you get the control lock bug and your teamates aren't letting enemies live long enough to deal damage to you, or you're a regen tank and literally just can't die.

Self damage had some positives and utility. It was just completely unbalanced in that literally any weapon with self damage built to deal any reasonable amount of damage to the enemy would insta-kill you.

If it just dealt % of your health as damage, ignoring DR, it would've solved every single issue self damage had. Except the ally collision issue which is a whole other problem that also needs to be fixed and is still problematic for self-knockback, and a number of other things in the game.

Plus. knockback immunity basically just eliminates the tradeoff to using aoes in the first place.... which is the entire reason the the god awful ammo and falloff nerfs happened. The risk could be entirely negated so they needed a new negative to try and """balance""" it. When all they needed to do was just balance the self damage system, instead of making this whole other worthless stupid system that's screwed up the balance of the whole game. Which I'm 99% sure they did just because Reb's favorite warframe youtuber made a meme video about it. And that youtuber got so fedup with warframe's BS they completely wiped all their warframe content anyways.

On 2024-04-22 at 6:37 PM, hviewerh said:

but maybe DE should introduce another mod like "Suicide Shot"; remove staggers but able to deal damage to user by 10%(min rank) to 100%(max rank).

No.

no.

no.

Stop suggesting DE should fix their issues with bandaid mods. This is always a god awful solution that just limits build variety and viability every single time they do it. If anything the entire self knockback mechanic should have been contained in the cautious shot mod. But really, just no.

The removal of self damage was just a really short-sighted and poorly thought out solution to a balance issue that about 500 players had already given them the real solution for. But they smooth-brained hardcore in classic DE fashion and screwed up the whole game balance in an over-complicated and over-compensated knee-jerk reaction to a simple issue that they completely refused to back-petal on long after it was clear they made a mistake.

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-04-24 at 1:09 AM, Slayer-. said:

Get real those weapons are not even comparable in the first place.

answer is still 

They are comparable the second anyone actually takes a moment to think. 

Now, Take the moment to actually think. Turn the Bramma into an automatic gun? Its the Acceltra. Turn the Acceltra into a bow? Its the Bramma.

They basically have the same crit chance at base. 1% Difference. 34% vs 35% Acceltra has higher critical damage while Bramma has higher base damage.
They are so similar in fact that when I go to check what the Meta is for these weapons, the builds are 1 mod different. 

What's their burst dps? Oh, almost exactly the same. Just about 95k each. 


Get real. These weapons fill the same purpose, are built the same way and do the same thing. 

One has 5 shots and bullies newbs, the other is fully automatic and will likely have already destroyed everything the Bramma was aiming at, before the Bramma ever fired. (Almost like the yearly power creep has already power crept the Bramma. 

Seriusly. People are asking for its Ammo back so the weapon is actually fun to use. It still wouldn't beat the Acceltra, or kill mobs as fast as the acceltra. Gun go brrrr

Edited April 29 by HeavyFarms

[Joezone619]

I'll trade you for self damage.

[Slayer-.]

 

8 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

They are comparable the second anyone actually takes a moment to think. 

Now, Take the moment to actually think. Turn the Bramma into an automatic gun? Its the Acceltra. Turn the Acceltra into a bow? Its the Bramma.

They basically have the same crit chance at base. 1% Difference. 34% vs 35% Acceltra has higher critical damage while Bramma has higher base damage.
They are so similar in fact that when I go to check what the Meta is for these weapons, the builds are 1 mod different. 

What's their burst dps? Oh, almost exactly the same. Just about 95k each. 


Get real. These weapons fill the same purpose, are built the same way and do the same thing. 

One has 5 shots and bullies newbs, the other is fully automatic and will likely have already destroyed everything the Bramma was aiming at, before the Bramma ever fired. (Almost like the yearly power creep has already power crept the Bramma. 

Seriusly. People are asking for its Ammo back so the weapon is actually fun to use. It still wouldn't beat the Acceltra, or kill mobs as fast as the acceltra. Gun go brrrr

I don't need to think the Bramma was bad how it was used originally anyone could get it at any MR and just spam their way across the star chart, the Acceltra is nearly as bad with its ammo running out even with ammo mods. Other weapons suffer from ammo nerfs why are you trying to get just the Bramme reinstated?

The answer is still.

On 2024-04-21 at 11:50 PM, Slayer-. said:

NO!

Yeah reinstate self-damage and watch the spammy weapons data drop, in the old days it was fatal to fire near yourself or if a pet got in the way or a texture or a buddy trolling you. It's meant to be unforgiving to drop a nuke near you and expect to live through it.  

The Acceltra doesn't get full power unless you're a set distance from the target.

[HeavyFarms]

20 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I don't need to think the Bramma was bad how it was used originally anyone could get it at any MR

And these days you need a railjack to actually get a Bramma. 

22 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

the Acceltra is nearly as bad with its ammo running out even with ammo mods. 

Nope!

Rifle ammo is more common, and gives more ammo. Acceltra can easily destroy adds, build merciless stacks and easily keep ammo up as it 1-2 shots enemies. 

23 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Yeah reinstate self-damage

You really want to reinstate self damage? That means I could proc radiation on myself, toss some castanas and you and show you that friendly fire, Isnt.

Self damage never stopped anyone from using the bramma btw. If it had stopped them, you wouldn't be complaining about it. 

24 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

The Acceltra doesn't get full power unless you're a set distance from the target.

Oh no. My acceltra won't self stagger me. It won't self damage me either. Oh no. 

What ever will I do? Oh? Just mow down everything? I already do that now. 

Get a clue buddy. Bramma isn't the powerhouse it used to be. Any newb with a regular acceltra can compete with a bramma. Even if you gave it ammo to make it playable. 

[Slayer-.]

56 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

Get a clue buddy. Bramma isn't the powerhouse it used to be. Any newb with a regular acceltra can compete with a bramma. Even if you gave it ammo to make it playable. 

I'm not your buddy by the way. 

Spoiler

Doesn't matter what anyone says in this thread you have your mind made up and trying to grasp at air trying to find things to compare it to when all you want is your spam weapon back.

/I'm out. 

[HeavyFarms]

3 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I'm not your buddy by the way. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Doesn't matter what anyone says in this thread you have your mind made up and trying to grasp at air trying to find things to compare it to when all you want is your spam weapon back.

/I'm out. 

Hey Buddy. 

You had your mind made up before this thread ever started. Be honest and have the guts to be truthful about it. Even if you disagree with me. 

/You're out. 

Oh, and it wasn't hard to find things to compare it to. Its called thinking. 

[Slayer-.]

7 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

Hey Buddy. 

You had your mind made up before this thread ever started. Be honest and have the guts to be truthful about it. Even if you disagree with me. 

/You're out. 

Oh, and it wasn't hard to find things to compare it to. Its called thinking. 

Your posts are now just a condescending pile of trash talk, I did read the thread and the ammo change was the best thing to happen to the Bramma to curb the spam.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I just want them to un-nerf the ammo for the proboscis cernos. That thing didn't deserve to be pummeled with the nerf bat in terms of ammo. 

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-04-29 at 9:08 PM, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I just want them to un-nerf the ammo for the proboscis cernos. That thing didn't deserve to be pummeled with the nerf bat in terms of ammo. 

Honestly, I'd be happy if they gave Primary Merciless its Ammo reserve passive back.

At least you'd have some way of weapons having useable ammo. 

 

[Slayer-.]

10 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

Honestly, I'd be happy if they gave Primary Merciless its Ammo reserve passive back.

At least you'd have some way of weapons having useable ammo. 

 

Or at least half of what it had would go a long way to helping out weapons caught up in the bramma nerf, they targeted the Bramma but others suffered along the way.

[bonamb]

On 2024-04-24 at 9:21 AM, PollexMessier said:

If it just dealt % of your health as damage, ignoring DR, it would've solved every single issue self damage had. Except the ally collision issue which is a whole other problem that also needs to be fixed and is still problematic for self-knockback, and a number of other things in the game.

Sadly this solution doesn't work, as it unfairly impacts health tanks like grendel, inaros, atlas etc (given their whole thing is big health pool + big DR) so itd do 200 actual damage to a mesa with shatter shield, but 20,000 actual damage to a grendel. Would be a big nerf for health based frames :)

[PollexMessier]

4 hours ago, bonamb said:

Sadly this solution doesn't work, as it unfairly impacts health tanks like grendel, inaros, atlas etc (given their whole thing is big health pool + big DR) so itd do 200 actual damage to a mesa with shatter shield, but 20,000 actual damage to a grendel. Would be a big nerf for health based frames :)

No. It works because it makes self-damage an equal punishment across all frames. The point is that it can kill you if you're careless, regardless of what you're using or how you're built, but it's not going to one-shot you like it used to.

It doesn't punish frames more for having more health. It punishes all frames equally regardless of health, mods, and abilities. "You die in x-number of hits (depending on the weapon) if you don't heal yourself, period." Side note I forgot to include before is it would also need to have a short period of time, like half a second, where you can't take self damage again. To avoid dying to multishot and high fire-rate.

Not being able to just reduce the tradeoff by tanking is the point. It would really be a perfect solution if not for the existence of regen-tanks, which do actually reduce the negative quite substantially. But not entirely, and we could have a mechanic that just pauses healing-over-time effects for a few seconds after taking self-damage if it became an issue.

There's also the edge-case of Garuda and her passive which would be disproportionately punished by this. But the existence of edge-cases like that are fine Imo. Just means you have to build around them. Garuda has two high damaging AoE abilities anyways so it's not like she needs an Aoe weapon.

Edited May 1 by PollexMessier

[(XBOX)ONI Prowess]

out of curiosity and possibly completly unrelated. . .

does anyone have any idea why the Nataruk is such a popular AoE bow compared to the others? aside from getting it for free WAY down the line. . .

any guesses perhaps? 

[BroDutt]

28 minutes ago, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

aside from getting it for free WAY down the line. . .

That's just it. Player that just finish New War and haven't unlock Zariman or SP will use it. Once they unlock Zariman and SP they'll go with Incarnon. The popular chart were based on last year/2023 data. Most player only get Duviri Incarnon after July 23 and since it's new and had more variant (the latron was popular back then and now player prefer torid) the statistic still show Nataruk as the popular one. It might change next year.

[Tiltskillet]

 

40 minutes ago, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

does anyone have any idea why the Nataruk is such a popular AoE bow compared to the others? aside from getting it for free WAY down the line. . .

any guesses perhaps? 

Because it's awesome? :P  I mean, look at its stats.  It doesn't hurt that it looks and sounds great too.

6 minutes ago, BroDutt said:

That's just it. Player that just finish New War and haven't unlock Zariman or SP will use it. Once they unlock Zariman and SP they'll go with Incarnon. The popular chart were based on last year/2023 data. Most player only get Duviri Incarnon after July 23 and since it's new and had more variant (the latron was popular back then and now player prefer torid) the statistic still show Nataruk as the popular one. It might change next year.

Nataruk totally holds up through any content though, and isn't as fiddly as the other "aoe" bows.  Infinite ammo, no need for headshots.  It's going to remain very popular for a long time.  Maybe it won't stay the #1 overall primary, but it'll be up there.   And until DE comes out with another bow that's even better, just as easy to use, and not too much harder to get, it'll be the top bow.