Removing bullet jump and parkour from 1999 (Just an idea)

[Xaero]

34 minutes ago, Raarsi said:

May as well go play some other game if you prefer removing the one unique aspect Warframe has over other looter-shooters.

Might as well not post at all if you prefer taking words out of context and jumping to false conclusions.

[Harutomata]

I hated Kahl movement, and DE moving the weekly shard from Chipper was such a special occasion that I felt like opening a champagne over it. So that's a no from me.
I did read the post, and I think even a partial restriction isn't a great idea. Gameplay should take priority over "realism", especially considering the game's genre.

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Introducing more grounded movement for human Proto Frames would enhance the depth and variety of gameplay

either an AI reworded this or an AI straight up made this argument, most people don't talk or think this way.

ai detectors put a bunch of your posts 75% to 100% probability of being AI generated

[_Eclips3_]

Just now, _Anise_ said:

either an AI reworded this or an AI straight up made this argument, most people don't talk or think this way.

ai detectors put a bunch of your posts 75% to 100% probability of being AI generated

I just put your reply through an AI detector and it says 88.88% probability, no person talks like you do :/ You could be from another country and English may be your third language like it is mine but naaaaah it's definitely AI, this poorly made script used to detect how likely a human might talk says so, surely they're completely infallible? 

[_Anise_]

example > AI (counter this argument "No, Stop trying to make the game unfun" .. the entire quote from Waeleto)

"Introducing grounded movement for human Proto Frames can enhance immersion and coherence in the game world, striking a balance between realism and fun. Aligning gameplay mechanics with established lore can create a more engaging and believable experience for players, ensuring a satisfying gameplay experience while maintaining the integrity of the game's universe." ~AI

While AI detectors aren't perfect, this feels like an AI argument because of the wording, the AI basically made the same response using similar logic and maybe inconsistencies in language between some of the other posts

edit:to add I don't think your language is bad, the opposite, I think it's sometimes too good!

Edited July 24 by _Anise_

[_Eclips3_]

6 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

example > AI (counter this argument "No, Stop trying to make the game unfun" .. the entire quote from Waeleto)

"Introducing grounded movement for human Proto Frames can enhance immersion and coherence in the game world, striking a balance between realism and fun. Aligning gameplay mechanics with established lore can create a more engaging and believable experience for players, ensuring a satisfying gameplay experience while maintaining the integrity of the game's universe." ~AI

Where do you think AI learned to write in such a manner? I've learned to write like this before ChatGTP or LLMs were a thing. If you've been through higher education and have had to write papers that could potentially be published publicly, you can't afford to present your ideas like a *removed* (  :D  ).

Edited July 24 by _Eclips3_

[_Anise_]

I will admit to having used AI myself to clean up language and make things more friendly to read in the past, specially chatting where I feel I would be more scrutinized, I think I have seen enough AI generated text to at least feel that part I quoted seemed like it AI generated.

but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it isn't, the argument doesn't make sense to me, protoframes are basically warframes right? they have humanoid heads entirely for narrative purposes, I presume they wanted a deeper story revolving around the warframes and making them more human enables this.

you are essentially asking for what is basically a plot device version of a warframe, a warframe all almost all ways to have it's movement restricted? and swinging that as adding something meaningful when in truth most players may probably perceive it negatively

e.g. Kharl is too slow, Necramechs are too slow and can't parkour, yareli just fumbles around bouncing off walls and can't parkour.

In my opinion it does not make sense to randomly cripple their movement on what is essentially just a reskin Warframe

 

[SaidTheRogue]

troll post? why are there so many anti-fun people in online gaming these days?

 

no, i dont like the idea of anything being disallowed/taken away, in general. youre free to not bullet jump, if you prefer =D

[GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, _Eclips3_ said:

I know. This is the one aspect DE actually listens to their community about.

People asking to add stalker to arsenal?

DE: "Nah, thx byeeee"

People asking for Acolyte/Stalker helmet?

DE: "Nah thx byeeee"

Some random guy on Twitter asked for universal medallions ages ago?

DE: "Yaaaaaaaa, great idea."

The first two requests made no sense to implement, especially considering that Stalker should be as elusive and mysterious as possible. The third request was a reasonable request. Context matters. 

Regarding your idea of limiting the proto-frames, I like the idea of some reduced, but not eliminated, abilities. This would create a nice, partial, separation from the full frames, and would add a touch of new learning towards optimizing movements.

I think the Teshin model would be an excellent choice. In New War, he had a smaller duration when aim gliding and bullet jumping, and had to rely on Orvius hard traversing. This creates different, but still effective, parkour and traversing. 

[_Eclips3_]

1 minute ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

The first two requests made no sense to implement, especially considering that Stalker should be as elusive and mysterious as possible. The third request was a reasonable request. Context matters. 

Regarding your idea of limiting the proto-frames, I like the idea of some reduced, but not eliminated, abilities. This would create a nice, partial, separation from the full frames, and would add a touch of new learning towards optimizing movements.

I think the Teshin model would be an excellent choice. In New War, he had a smaller duration when aim gliding and bullet jumping, and had to rely on Orvius hard traversing. This creates different, but still effective, parkour and traversing. 

Yeah that's definitely a better way of implementing it. Just because they showed vanilla Warframe animations in the demo, that was still just a work in progress. They could easily add that to the release.

[OniDax]

58 minutes ago, Harutomata said:

I hated Kahl movement, and DE moving the weekly shard from Chipper was such a special occasion that I felt like opening a champagne over it. So that's a no from me.
I did read the post, and I think even a partial restriction isn't a great idea. Gameplay should take priority over "realism", especially considering the game's genre.

If the movement was actually more realistic, then Kahl movement would've been much better. The reason it feels so bad is because it's not even remotely realistic. It doesn't feel natural. Improving the core movement would improve movement for every character in the game. It would feel better regardless of how fast you're moving.

I know Warframe fans don't like to hear that another game does something better than Warframe, but in this case, I wish DE would take a look at COD MW 2022 and Ghost of Tsushima, because those games have great movement that feels natural and smooth. Overall, those games have, imo, the best animations and core movement in the industry. Warframe can have natural, smooth movement and maintain its current movement speed. Without movement improvements, any slow paced gameplay in Warframe is going to feel bad.

Beyond movement improvements, animations overall need some improvements. The way the character aims their weapon, the way they crouch and how drastic the camera change from crouched movement to aiming, how smooth the transitions between melee combos are, how enemies move, all of this needs improvement. And the slower the speed of the gameplay, the more noticeable the issues with animations and movement and gunplay and melee gameplay.

 

To be clear, I don't think WF 1999 needs to remove bullet jump or aim glide. And if DE isn't going to improve movement and animations, then I oppose them removing it. However, I believe DE needs to improve movement and animations, as it will improve how movement feels for everyone. Some of us play the way they played in that demo. Some of us use bullet jump and aim glide sparingly. Core movement - walking, sprinting, running, changing direction, armed and unarmed, with the Warframe, Operator, and Drifter, and with vehicles - is not good in this game. Imo, it's among the worst I've experienced in a third person shooter of Warframe's style and genre. There is no reason why Warframe can't have core movement that 

Edited July 24 by OniDax

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

So, when watching the 1999 demo, the person playing doesn't really spam CRTL+Space and bounce off the walls and hover in the air like a helicopter every 5 seconds like most players do and it looks a lot more natural. If anything, it looks really weird when they bullet jump. Would be good to introduce Stamina or just limit movement a bit in 1999 considering you're playing as human-Proto Frames which I guess are less alien and are slightly weaker than full on infested Warframe suits. Personally, having a proto-frame bullet-jump and fly around the map seems a bit off, it'd make more sense making 1999 more boots on the ground. It'll make the mode actually stand out. Was thinking Khal bounty type movement.

Opinions?

I'm already hesitant about 1999.  Not because of the romance.  Not because of the aesthetics.  Not because of the boy band.  That all seems fine.  I just want to know if my arsenal and years of progression will have any bearing at all here.  I didn't actively watch TennoCon, so I'm really not sure if we even know that yet.  I do know, though, that I really did not love playing as Kahl.  I also know that I didn't love playing as the Drifter in The New War.  He's fine in Duviri, but I don't find myself returning to Duviri now that I've cleared that content.  If I want to play a good roguelike, I have a boatload of them on Steam and on my Switch.  I'm good.

 

I play Warframe for the mobility, the progression, the customizability, and the power fantasy (_{and the ever lurking sunk cost fallacy}).  Realism and immersion, if that's what you're going for here, take a back seat for me.  Playing as Kahl in The New War was just me tapping my feet and waiting to be done.  Same with the Drifter.  And honestly?  Same with playing as Arthur in the Whispers in the Walls quest.  Weekly Kahls were a cardinal sin, and I'm glad that DE has taken the eternal reward out of them.  The last thing DE should do now is add another eternal grind (assuming 1999 gets a weekly sort of game mode, as is the fashion) related to something that ignores what makes Warframe so good.

[(PSN)Unstar]

The great movement in Warframe is one of the key aspects that makes me like it over other games.  So I will voice my preference that bullet jump continue to be part of the proto frame experience.

[Aerikx]

29 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

The first two requests made no sense to implement, especially considering that Stalker should be as elusive and mysterious as possible. The third request was a reasonable request. Context matters. 

Regarding your idea of limiting the proto-frames, I like the idea of some reduced, but not eliminated, abilities. This would create a nice, partial, separation from the full frames, and would add a touch of new learning towards optimizing movements.

I think the Teshin model would be an excellent choice. In New War, he had a smaller duration when aim gliding and bullet jumping, and had to rely on Orvius hard traversing. This creates different, but still effective, parkour and traversing. 

Couldn't agree with this post more. 

I'd be fine with Proto-Frames (not the skins but the actual characters) moved like Teshin as they aren't 100% infested yet. Makes perfect sense they'd be just a few notches down from an actual Warframe. 

11 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

just want to know if my arsenal and years of progression will have any bearing at all here.

Rebecca confirmed in a Q&A Interview (I'll find it and edit this post) that we only play as Arthur for the opening mission. The player character takes over from there on out.

(This disappointed me tbh. As unlike Kahl, the Proto-Frames could be modded not negating all of our arsenals and I find their story better told from their perspective. Also, this means we'll BLOW through 1999 in minutes. So the quest line will only last a few hours total, with standing cap being the only delay in progression from there.)

Found it:

https://wccftech.com/warframe-tennocon-2024-q-we-have-our-ideas-to-bring-them-back/amp/

Edit 2:

For context...

I was fine with being limited to Proto-Frames and a limited arsenal of their unique individual weapons. BUT we get access to our mods.

Example: Arthur has the player's Excalibur stats, Loadout, Arcanes, and mods, but not our weapons.

Limiting us to era appropriate weapons and etc. while also ensuring players can't just blitz the campaign.

But nope. I expect to see threads on day 1... "That's it?!"

Edited July 24 by Aerikx
Added Interview Link

[_Anise_]

23 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Regarding your idea of limiting the proto-frames, I like the idea of some reduced, but not eliminated, abilities. This would create a nice, partial, separation from the full frames, and would add a touch of new learning towards optimizing movements.

agree it sounds good but it makes no sense given the "Gemini" skins will allow you to take these skins into the regular game, so what when you take them into the normal game if you couldn't parkour with them or use different abilities it would be weird and maybe players wouldn't want to use them in that case.

Edited July 24 by _Anise_

[sunderthefirmament]

15 minutes ago, Aerikx said:

Rebecca confirmed in a Q&A Interview (I'll find it and edit this post) that we only play as Arthur for the opening mission. The player character takes over from there on out.

(This disappointed me tbh. As unlike Kahl, the Proto-Frames could be modded not negating all of our arsenals and I find their story better told from their perspective. Also, this means we'll BLOW through 1999 in minutes. So the quest line will only last a few hours total, with standing cap being the only delay in progression from there.)

Found it:

https://wccftech.com/warframe-tennocon-2024-q-we-have-our-ideas-to-bring-them-back/amp/

Thanks for posting this!  It doesn't explicitly state that we'll have unfettered access to our loadouts and arsenals of course, but I'll remain optimistic.  I can't imagine they'll give us our archwing launchers in the new zones or anything like that, but I'm hopeful that we'll at least get our frames, weapons, pets, gear, and drifter.

[PrideB4TheFall]

Okay, Remove bullet jump and parkour. So that effectively makes them more or less human. Yet they are dressed or outfitted in warframe-like suits for what reason? I mean if you're really looking to humanize the gameplay, why not strip the abilities, shields and armor also? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I mean if you really want to play Dark Sector... go for it.

Edited July 24 by PrideB4TheFall

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 29 minutos, _Anise_ dijo:

agree it sounds good but it makes no sense given the "Gemini" skins will allow you to take these skins into the regular game, so what when you take them into the normal game if you couldn't parkour with them or use different abilities it would be weird and maybe players wouldn't want to use them in that case.

It doesn't make sense in the lore either.

hace 50 minutos, GEN-Son_17 dijo:

Regarding your idea of limiting the proto-frames, I like the idea of some reduced, but not eliminated, abilities. This would create a nice, partial, separation from the full frames, and would add a touch of new learning towards optimizing movements.

It is assumed that Albrecht traveled to the past and began cultivating his own ''warframes'' and the proto-frames the result of one of the batches of his experiments wanna kill him, apparently he kidnapped people (I don't think anyone sane would volunteer) and experimented with them, so now them want to kill him for obvious reasons (Arthur and company) and  although they are ''defective'' products  they are still super-human creatures, but you want to remove the super-human part and turn the proto-prames into a resident evil 2 like ish soldiers. It seems to you that it makes sense argumentatively? that The guy travels several millennia into the past and his creation is just any normal soldier? 

Yes, warframe1999 is millennia before our game time plane, i say this because of the announcement of the infested liches where we see that it says ''millennia later, in the origin system''.

Edited July 24 by CosoMalvadoNG

[Quest]

Feel free to not bullet jump if you don't want to but the rest of us like going fast.

[AtsiaZ]

13 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

It is assumed that Albrecht traveled to the past and began cultivating his own ''warframes'' and the proto-frames the result of one of the batches of his experiments wanna kill him, apparently he kidnapped people (I don't think anyone sane would volunteer) and experimented with them, so now them want to kill him for obvious reasons (Arthur and company)

No, they're all explicitly volunteers, Albrecht healing them from whatever original Infestation outbreak was in 1999. We don't really know what the beef with Albrecht's is all about, just that the Hex blame him for the current situation of things for whatever reason.

Edited July 24 by AtsiaZ

[_Anise_]

16 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

It doesn't make sense in the lore either.

given that neither of us have even played or know the story how can you make that assertion?

[AlexMercer]

No.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 minutos, AtsiaZ dijo:

No, they're all explicitly volunteers, Albrecht healing them from whatever original Infestation outbreak was in 1999. We don't really know what the beef with Albrecht's is all about, just that the Hex blame him for the current situation of things for whatever reason.

Good to know ,now I want to play even more just to understand it the ''mystery''.  

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 9 minutos, _Anise_ dijo:

given that neither of us have even played or know the story how can you make that assertion?

Of course I know that some ppl are short-minded.
 
Ok let's put ourselves in albrecht's position:
I go back thousands of years to the past to create biological soldiers with super-humans powers, since they are based on literally humanoids weapons with the capacity to erase the life on one entire planet but oh!, for some reason they do not have even half of those powers and they are a soldier with a little increase in strength but hey, it makes a lot of sense because you say it, no?.

Edited July 24 by CosoMalvadoNG

[quxier]

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

3 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

it would add to the overall richness and believability of the game world.

You're just objectively wrong here, Y'know what it would in fact achieve ? another duviri/kahl missions that NO ONE likes, another content the community hates, Warframe doesn't need to be realistic to be good and unless you have phd in proto-frame suits you can't say that parkour is impossible in them, if you don't like parkour you are FREE to not use it

I like Duviri (not circuit). Duviri is slower but it's not that slow as Kahl. Duviri have horses for fast travel while Kahl just... "walk".

3 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Your point relies on a common fallacy known as the "Non Sequitur," where the conclusion doesn't logically follow from the premises. Just because a game universe has fantastical elements like infested creatures and time travel doesn't mean that any conceivable action or ability fits within its logic. For the game's mechanics to be immersive, they need to align with the established lore. Introducing more grounded movement for human Proto Frames would enhance the depth and variety of gameplay, making the 1999 mode stand out with its unique, coherent experience. This wouldn't make the game unfun; instead, it would add to the overall richness and believability of the game world.

First, immersion is not only about lore but it's about mechanics as well. When you are slow but enemy just spam AoE stuff then it's not immersive. It's frustrating.

Secondly, you need take AND give something back. Duvir is pretty good example (for me). It limits our combat/movements but give us blocking/evasion and "shoot to disrupt action".