[Revised Op] Would You Be Okay With Exclusive Items Retroactively Not Giving Mastery

[VegetableBasket]

You do realise that in the end when mastery reaches its 30 limit DE will make those few extra weapons that reward those who do not have exclusive weapons so in the end everyone can reach mastery 30. What we have now is just that little extra boost to the people that have been with the game for some long got as a reward.

You are just assuming that, nor will that be a valid point until rank 30 is possible, which, it won't be for the next 4 years at the rate we're going (rank 15 is 25% of the XP to rank 30)

 

Removing the mastery XP is absurd why not ask that you be given a million mastery points because you feel, well inferior. (Makes more sense.(While you’re at it ask for a pony *ponies are boss) ) This is your issur man, deal.

Not sure why I'm even replying to you, since you didn't read the OP, but I don't feel inferior. I have more mastery than 99% of the playerbase. It is certainly not my issue.

I believe that there should be a power disparity between new and veteran players.

Don't tell me that your level 1 Witch Doctor is on the same power level with a Level 75 (with maxed paragon levels) Witch Doctor in Diablo III.

It just doesn't make any sense.

The power level aka mastery rank of a player should reflect how much time and effort he spends collecting the exclusives in events and also his dedication to the game.

I am a PS4 player and I disagree with everything the OP proposed.

So what that PS4 players missed out on 85% of the event and founders exclusive weapons? It doesn't bother me one bit cos I know that those players who do have those items deserved them as they either worked hard for them during the events and/or supported DE early in the development cycle. The founders are why we PS4 players can play Warframe on the console. Without them, there is no PS4 fanbase.

THIS HAPPENS ON BOARDGAMES KICKSTARTER ALL THE TIME. Zombicide has kickstarter exclusives (kinda like Founders package but with a shorter time frame to commit) that WAS NEVER RELEASED EVER AGAIN.

I guess we boardgamers understand the concept of exclusives more than other gamers in general as boardgames have exclusives all the time.

It's fine if you outwardly believe vets deserve a power disparity, but I'm not sure if your analogies line up with what I'm talking about. Can you no longer achieve paragon levels in Diablo? I don't mean that a mastery rank 1 should be as powerful as a mastery rank 16 player. I mean that a mastery rank 1 should eventually be able to get to mastery rank 16 (or whatever the given maximum is) if they put in the same hours and effort. Right now they cannot. And you're talking about exclusives as if I am saying no one should have them, I am just saying they should not give mastery XP because it sets a level cap that only founders and closed beta members can reach (at the moment). It would be like if in World of Warcraft the level cap was 60 when the game came out but you could get to level 62 if you tested the game. It doesn't make sense. But if you think it does, well, that's your opinion.

Since when do we not have to level up exclusive items ? What difference does it make that you level up a normal item vs an exclusive one ? The way I see it, the only thing that differs is that you acquired those items free. If you want mastery level, just buy an item and level that.

I might be missing something here...

Supposedly there are players that have put in enough effort and possibly $$$ that they now own everything in the game outside of event exclusives and founder's gear that they have missed, and are upset at that people that own said items would have higher mastery rank than them. I think.

So people cry over that extra mastery that you get from exclusive items that only matters after you already have everything maxed in the game ? In that case, I say nothing more.

Come on, at least read the OP. I don't even need to write a new response to this because I already explained why this matters.

Veterans always have advantages over new players, they have been playing for longer. This is a staple fact in games, the longer you play the more stuffs you have. If I enter a game, 2 years after it's out and I'm at the same level as a Vet who played for those 2 years? What the smeagol is the point? Players are rewarded for sticking around.

I am saying a PS4 player who puts in 800 hours should be able to get to the same level as a PC player who put in 800 hours. Did you even read the OP?

For the time being, I still don't see the real point of mastery XP that actually impact gameplay significantly. Dragon Nikana is rank8, Soma is rank6 and that's probably all that matter. In the end, I think DE will release enough weapons that allow everyone, with exclusive and without, to reach mastery 100 if they play long enough.

Even when it actually mattered, I don't think exclusive will have any significant impact to overall mastery rank.

The focus system coming with U14, I see you also didn't read the OP.

 

quote tags broke, more responses:

Sabreracer, said:

People really need to get over the issue of coming late into the game and not being able to get stuff that isn't around anymore.

If Player X can only trail Player Y XP wise how does this affect him/her in a PvE game? We don't know enough about Focus to know if and how it will effect us. The Dev have spoken about it in the streams but only in general terms NOTHING is final yet.

 

It's not the items, it's the not being able to fill your XP bar. And yes, we do know enough about focus to how if and how it will effect us to at least talk about it. As it stands this will be an issue.

BETAOPTICS, said:

Yes, but is this change necessary. After all, you don't gain anything from having a slightly more mastery or mastery rank at the time being.

go watch that video of Steve saying your mastery will matter. 45k is not slight.

RXZ71, said:

Id just want them to be tradable. :S

That would be nice.

RealPandemonium, said:

Mastery rank is easy to get and isn't going to be useful until Focus, at which time they can smooth out the disparities. The small number of exclusive weapons doesn't change much when your next rank requires you to master 30 things anyway.

Ideally yeah. People keep talking about mastery 30 like it will be possible in the next couple patches, it's 4 years of projected updates before it's possible... By then how many exclusives will there be? 200k worth of mastery?

Malindros, said:

This is a simple matter of you missed the bus, sucks yo be you, get up earlier next time.

lol, it's about how a player can't get to the highest level because he wasn't in the closed beta. What game does that?

Edited May 6, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[OniDax]

This is basically another idon'thavewhatyouhaveit'snotfair thread masked as a mastery thread. Please close.

[VegetableBasket]

This is basically another idon'thavewhatyouhaveit'snotfair thread masked as a mastery thread. Please close.

 

u sure

 

amprex is only level 27 because I'm a scrub

 

Look it's fine if you guys hate this idea and I'm not saying DE should do it, I'm just explaining why it matters. I'm probably getting a bit flustered while I do it to, so sorry if I seem salty, lol, being a forum warrior isn't easy.

Edited May 6, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[TheBlueMagician]

 

u sure

 

So you're whining on the behalf of others. It's a neat gimmick, but the underlying trick is old.

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

I'd be ok with this, I'm already MR 12 so no issues for me

[TheWolfMo]

Well there isnt much for mastery after reaching what? rank 8? so exclusives dont do much right now. If they ever add anything up to the planed maxrank (grandmaster in the challenges which is like MR 30) then maybe.

And i'm pretty sure DE will implement enough items so you can reach rank 30 without a single exclusive. Its not like they make reaching it much  faster. You still need to level them in the same time you level any other item and you still need to get the same amount of points. As long as there isn't even the last item ingame i wouldnt even bother thinking too much bout it

[BloodKitten]

only things from closed beta and founder program.

 

event items are fair play and should keep thier mastery points.

[Mystery27zx]

No, honestly I wouldn't, simply because it's called Mastery Rank, as in "mastering the tools at your disposal," the reason nobody can reach rank 30 yet is because this game is far from finished, I'd imagine by the release there will be enough weapons to reach Grand Master rank, but until that time people will continue making weapons they want because that's what they want to use.  They haven't yet stated all the event items will be exclusive, so there's really no problem with them giving mastery points right now, because sometime in the future they will likely be obtainable again.

 

Edit: Oh, right, you said EXCLUSIVE, well in that case I could understand having Founder's gear not giving it, but what would be the point if none of them lost those points, since nearly every founder still playing has probably maxed out those items already anyway.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Mystery27zx

[BloodKitten]

No, honestly I wouldn't, simply because it's called Mastery Rank, as in "mastering the tools at your disposal," the reason nobody can reach rank 30 yet is because this game is far from finished, I'd imagine by the release there will be enough weapons to reach Grand Master rank, but until that time people will continue making weapons they want because that's what they want to use.  They haven't yet stated all the event items will be exclusive, so there's really no problem with them giving mastery points right now, because sometime in the future they will likely be obtainable again.

 

Edit: Oh, right, you said EXCLUSIVE, well in that case I could understand having Founder's gear not giving it, but what would be the point if none of them lost those points, since nearly every founder still playing has probably maxed out those items already anyway.

can always run a script to roll back any exp gained from said items.

 

only closed beta and founder gear though, event items items are fair play as everyone have a chance to get it without closed beta key, or giving 200$.

[Corvid]

All they said is it will be affected by mastery rank, They never said how much or how far

 

Just want to say that (from the DC thread) each mastery rank would allow you to have an extra focus state (an extra ability in the skill tree). Basically, it would add variety.

[Ketec]

or give everyone equal amount of mastery instead.

 

Taking something away from people they earned will just cause hate.

[RealPandemonium]

only closed beta and founder gear though, event items items are fair play as everyone have a chance to get it without closed beta key, or giving 200$.

You don't have a chance to get event items if your account wasn't around at the time.  The objective is not to make closed beta players feel special, but to smooth out the difference in mastery potential between people who have been playing for a year and people who started playing last week.  Once Focus comes into play this will actually matter.  At the present time, however, mastery rank is mostly just a number.

Edited May 6, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Do I want Excalibur prime? Yes. Do I care enough to take the bonus it gives away from someone or ask DE to unexclusive them? Nope!

[Guest]

im down with the idea

 

OCD reasons

[Corvid]

but nowhere on that page did it say the Mastery from those exclusive items would also be exclusive.

 

It's kind of implied by the fact that they're items.

 

Items give mastery.

 

Therefore, exclusive items give exclusive mastery.

[ss4chris]

Please watch this video if you believe there is no point to mastery XP: http://youtu.be/CNtzE7BTUV8?t=16m25s

Quick question to the community, please answer it assuming changes are made to the game in this way:

1. Anything you can't get by playing the game right now would not give mastery XP

2. Any mastery XP you've earned would not be taken away from you, but you would have to earn an equal amount of mastery before your XP bar would increase again

(example)

You level 3 exclusive items, earning 9,000 mastery XP and leaving you at 27,000 master XP. A change is made removing mastery from exclusives, so you will have to earn 9,000 mastery XP before you gain mastery XP again, although you will stay at 27,000 mastery the entire time. Once you've earned 9,100 mastery you would be at 27,100 mastery, as if the item never gave mastery in the first place.

 

The reason I am asking:

There is no doubt that veteran players have an advantage over newer players. We have weapons, mods, and now helmets they can't have. The new focus system will be based on mastery level which means without a certain amount of exclusives, you will not be able to reach a certain tier of your focus tree. Someone starting today would not have acess to 45,000 mastery XP that is available to other players. The power gap between new and old players will only increase as long as the amount of exclusives does given the planned implementation of focus. I think it's a balance issue worth considering, and I don't know if the rest of the community would be willing to give up its exclusive mastery points for the sake of a level playing field. I also think the feeling of never being able to reach the level cap is very discouraging to newer players.

My personal answer is yes. Even though I am only missing one weapon and the power disparity would not affect me negatively.

 

 

No.

 

[VegetableBasket]

Well there isnt much for mastery after reaching what? rank 8? so exclusives dont do much right now.

 

And i'm pretty sure DE will implement enough items so you can reach rank 30 without a single exclusive. Its not like they make reaching it much  faster. You still need to level them in the same time you level any other item and you still need to get the same amount of points. As long as there isn't even the last item ingame i wouldnt even bother thinking too much bout it

They account for 45,000 mastery points, or about 6% of possible mastery. As I said forty thousand times already, the focus system will reward players for each level of mastery they earn. There will be many players who cannot get to the next rank because they missed or chose not to purchase exclusive items and be less powerful overall because of it. And you're talking about mastery 30 which will take 4 projected years of updates to reach in the context of a system that is going into the game within the next couple months. I'm not talking about everyone getting to 30 eventually, I'm talking about people not being able to get to 16 right now.

The other solution would just be making focus only benefit players to the X mastery rank, where X is the highest mastery you can earn without any exclusives. I think that would be a better way to do it which accomplishes the same goal and annoys less people. Editing OP.

Edited May 6, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[Rettycombine]

[Blatantfool]

 I wouldn't mind.

[FillyRarity]

I don't understand the mastery from exclusives war. It's like... "Oh snap, I can't fill that bar all the way. I know the past six mastery ranks have been purely for bragging rights, but... Just gotta get that pointless achievement."

Makes no sense to me, but I'd be fine with exclusives giving no mastery.

[Etsoree]

No, I wouldn't be okay with that.

[Arlayn]

I would have to give this a BIG NO.

 

Why? Because people who have been here longer WOULD BE RIPPED OFF!!!

 

Gradivus Dilemma for one... Do you know what happened!? Do you know how many missions we went through? Do you know our hardships? I still didn't get any true veteran status equipment to make up for what happened during that war... THAT was a war to be remembered! Not enough was given to reward those involved! You want to take away the mastery rank exp earned from the weapons earned in that event? ARE YOU INSANE!?

 

Also there comes Founders. We spent money to support the game, and in a gesture of goodwill gave us what they promised us cool weapons, and warframe. Which also comes with mastery exp. Why take away from something that people gave money for, and not give us the make up for it? A lot of the events we went through WERE NOT EASY. They were extremely repetitive! You don't know what we have been through! The hours we poured in! The events we have witnessed that were so draining! I literally spent days with barely any sleep during the Gradivus Dilemma. I would take a small rest, but then jump right back in leaving me in a zombified state. I became really weak for days! I had to sleep for 12+ hours just to attempt regaining all the lost sleep involved.

 

And you... You want to take away the mastery exp involved in the gear? REALLY!?

[Rakosta_Kai]

Couple of things here...

 

Using mastery Rank and xp earned over 30 is a few things...

1. a complete cop out... inherently imbalanced based on time playing the game.

2. completely lacking in anything resembling lore. Something like this should be a quest or journey and take time and effort to fill out.Letting people max it day one cheapens it.

3. further divides veteran and new players.

 

But...

So long as they remove from consideration all exclusives, including event rewards, I'd be cool with it.

Likewise, tier the XP earned over lvl 30 for a frame as Endless Defense/Survivals can make that bar rather ridiculous.

 

Heck, while we are at it...

 

Let's just remove all the Exclusives...

 

All of them...

 

Remove the Founder's Pack items, Helmets, Dex Furis, Wraith and Vandal items, Legendary Cores and Have DE take back that free platinum they gave players last summer. Item, XP, and all.. Heck even take the kills you got with those items away and any mods you acquired while the item was equipped.

 

Clean the slate.

 

Confiscate all of it for the sake of creating reasonable parity with newer players for a system that has yet to be implemented.

 

Since Exclusives appear to be the bane of many, let's just remove all of it from everyone.

I've no doubt that once all the crying is done the forums will be much quieter.

 

I'd imagine it would be dead silent.

[Arlayn]

Couple of things here...

 

Using mastery Rank and xp earned over 30 is a few things...

1. a complete cop out... inherently imbalanced based on time playing the game.

2. completely lacking in anything resembling lore. Something like this should be a quest or journey and take time and effort to fill out.Letting people max it day one cheapens it.

3. further divides veteran and new players.

 

But...

So long as they remove from consideration all exclusives, including event rewards, I'd be cool with it.

Likewise, tier the XP earned over lvl 30 for a frame as Endless Defense/Survivals can make that bar rather ridiculous.

 

Heck, while we are at it...

 

Let's just remove all the Exclusives...

 

All of them...

 

Remove the Founder's Pack items, Helmets, Dex Furis, Wraith and Vandal items, Legendary Cores and Have DE take back that free platinum they gave players last summer. Item, XP, and all.. Heck even take the kills you got with those items away and any mods you acquired while the item was equipped.

 

Clean the slate.

 

Confiscate all of it for the sake of creating reasonable parity with newer players for a system that has yet to be implemented.

 

Since Exclusives appear to be the bane of many, let's just remove all of it from everyone.

I've no doubt that once all the crying is done the forums will be much quieter.

 

I'd imagine it would be dead silent.

more like Warframe would be dead...

[Paradoxbomb]

Perhaps I'm biased because I already broke rank 12, but I don't see the harm in it. Anyone who's sitting on a pile of exclusives is probably MR 12+ like me anyway, and newer players probably wouldn't have earned too much exp from exclusives (there's a lot but not THAT many). So even if they were to strip all exp currently earned it probably wouldn't amount to much of a loss.

 

Granted that could open a can of worms, so maybe you could argue that you should get to keep any exp earned up to this point, but if future exclusives didn't give exp I wouldn't see any harm (especially if DE does intend to use MR as a more integral mechanic in the future).