Why Was Loki Removed From Starting Frames?

[Neyo]

So I know im a little late on this topic but why was loki removed from starting frames I mean hes one of the best frames in the game even though he has no offensive abilitys and also hes really hard to farm for so why did he get removed? Also was there a change in his codex entry I remember it saying when I started playing this game 7 months ago that was for advanced players not preferred by advanced players? 

 

 

[(PSN)Folkeye]

I think because he's considered 'advanced' they want a group of frames that are a little more balanced to start with.

[[DE]Drew]

...even though he has no offensive abilitys...

This was one of several reasons why it didn't make sense to have Loki as a starter frame. 

[AXCrusnik]

Loki's not that great for newbies honestly. Volt was my first starter frame and I think he worked well as that.

[Netheroc]

Loki is just not viable as a beginner frame. Low defensive stats, no offensive abilities, Decoy is still Decoy, Invisibility is somewhat useful, Switch teleport completely useless for a beginner, Radial disarm not worth the energy.

[Deidaku]

Also was there a change in his codex entry I remember it saying when I started playing this game 7 months ago that was for advanced players not preferred by advanced players? 

Well for one that didn't make sense

 

If you're getting a starter frame , you're not  and advanced player  you're a newbie like everyone else or you lost your previous account or some stuff like that

[Chroia]

My 2 cents:

Loki was my starter frame (I aspire to be an 'advanced player', so that was obviously the choice for me), and I'm glad he was.

I think Excal is useless.

Mag is very susceptible to the starter Grineer planets, and very reliant on mods regardless.

Volt's an excellent frame, that I wouldn't have minded starting with.

 

But Loki is an excellent all-around frame(, and incidentally, the first I potatoed, once I finally decided to put my half-dozen potatoes to use). Very versatile, much useful.

The only thing that really scales off mods is Radial Disarm, and for low-level stuff, Decoy is more than adequate.

[[DE]Amadeus]

I've had a few friends pick Loki as their starter frame, usually led to them getting frustrated with how squishy he was. The people with Excalibur and Mag loved their frames, but loki players tried to get rhino ASAP because they didn't like dying so often

[Necr0Ra1se]

Becouse new players can't handle him.

[Llyssa]

I'd note, as of the current ability layout, loki would have nothing but decoy until like level 5.

 

The traditional method of handling loki is/was to use invis and run past everything until you're far enough to farm something easy/safe.

 

That wouldn't be entirely feasible now, and I suppose counter-acts some of the intended gameplay mechanics.

[Dalimir]

Becuase, and as Drew hinted at above, his abilities deal no damage, and part of the new tutorial (Vor's Prize) has the player use offensive powers to defends themselves against a small wave of Grineer, before they make their way out and pick up a melee weapon.

[Llyssa]

Becuase, and as Drew hinted at above, his abilities deal no damage, and part of the new tutorial (Vor's Prize) has the player use offensive powers to defends themselves against a small wave of Grineer, before they make their way out and pick up a melee weapon.

Yeah, but you can kill them with jump kicks, so you could just place decoys and then JK them to death while they attack it.

[Shin]

Loki was perfect for me as a starter Frame. But that was when i started the game while we still had that Locked out gates bug and the times where the hardest thing to get was Alloy plate and rubedo and the best sniper was the HEK.

 

Ahh how i miss those times...

[LascarCapable]

Loki was removed from the starter frames because he needs too much stuff to be useful, and no damage abilities makes him ill suited for beginners.

 

I began the game with Loki, and seriously, I though it was really a bad choice...

[Kalenath]

Loki was removed from the starter frames because he needs too much stuff to be useful, and no damage abilities makes him ill suited for beginners.

 

And people complained when they hit the '4' button and it didn't nuke everything.

[Zsar]

Excalibur on the low-level missions was awesome.

 

Loki without proper mods... I got mine recently - farmed and built past Mastery 10 - and after the very first mod: Redirection; everything I put on it is a rare mod (and one also corrupted). It is at rank 12 currently and currently has equipped:

• Energy Siphon 5
• Redirection 13
• Continuity 2
• Streamline 2
• Narrow Minded 0
• Flow 0

A new player would have one of these mods. And no Aura at all. That would be pretty bad - I now have a few problems acclimating to its frailty (but I already start to love the fortes nevertheless).

 

Incidentally, my neighbor, who convinced me to try out Warframe the day after he himself had started, had picked a Loki for his start.

... He stopped to play somewhen before Survival missions were introduced. I am still here, bless Excalibur (which did scale really badly post-Venus).

Edited November 5, 2014 by Zsar

[Casardis]

Yeah, but you can kill them with jump kicks, so you could just place decoys and then JK them to death while they attack it.

 

A new player in their very first action phase shouldn't have to do three separate maneuvers at once (Decoy, Jump, Aerial Slide/crouch) in a time-consuming, unintuitive process, compared to the more simple press 4 as a first demonstration of a Warframe's ultimate ability (the main purpose of that first part of the tutorial).

 

While what you say it's true, it's not a good reason to keep him there compared to Volt.

 

I do like the idea of having it be different for Loki by making him use Invisibility, but again, it breaks the purpose and pace of the tutorial just for a single frame, whereas they could simply replace him with a Frame that has abilities more intuitive for new players to introduce the most basic mechanics.

[Brimir]

I started the game with Loki and I loved it. It transformed me into the sexual tyrannosaur you see before you.

 

... I still agree with the choice of removing him from starters thou...

[Sziklamester]

My starter frame was loki and i handed well. Depend on curiosity how his abilities work and i often tested what he can do. The decoy very useful ability on him the invisibility also a nice with the extra damage so with a good gear that is very deadly but as begin also good for hide and seek. The switch teleport is useful ability also but after peoples called him troll because of use that ability titled troll and useless but a good loki player can fast switch own position or save mates from trouble. "This is depend on again other peoples maneuvre and mentality". Finaly the disarm is still good cc skill. 

 

That consideration he haven't damaging skill and that's why out from the start is just bad. I saw many peoples who sucked so much as starter with mag and excal. The first step to teach the new players how they can use their frames and let them try to be creative. 

 

More tutorial and communication.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Sziklamester

[Valafor]

As someone who mains and loves Loki, I'll tell you this. When I started Warframe, I chose Loki as my starter and I HATED him. He was the absolute worst. Loki is not such much about skills, but rather he is about mods. As a beginner, with no mods, Loki kind of sucks. He lacks any kind of (with a lack of  a better word) crutches. In your beginning stages,, you probably can only afford to use Decoy and Invisibility, with both of these mods (they were mods at the time) being rather weak as they were not really leveled. Your weapons suck so you could not really reap the benefits of the increased melee damage, and he had no offensive abilities to get you out of a nasty situation. 

 

Later on, I quickly got Ash, and he was wonderful. Funny enough, Ash was the frame that taught me to be a better Loki. His invisibility was shorter, but had a stun, which taught me I needed to be quick and get as much done as possible while invisible. His Shuriken, while falling off in later levels, was great for me traversing the system as I could easily get myself out of a nasty situation. Ash was fast which taught me I needed to be on the move, but still had good stats so I wouldn't just drop dead if I made a mistake like I would with Loki. It would be later on when I had a healthy collection of mods, good weapons, and grew more skill in the game would I come back to try, and enjoy, Loki. 

 

The description for Loki is right, advanced players will love him. But the reason why is because he nicely compliments our well-grown arsenal, not necessarily because he is hard to play. Let's be honest, is it really that skillful to run around being permanently invisible and spamming Radial Disarm? Does it take 1337 skills to do a decoy + switch teleport combo? No, it doesn't. As a former member of my clan once said, "Loki is like Rhino, it just takes longer to kill everything". 

[Zsar]

To add to this, when I and my neighbor started (and he picked Loki), the only Rifle mod we could ever gain was Point Strike. Which basically did nothing on the Braton Mk-1.

Slash Dash killed ~90% off all our enemies in those dark times.

 

- Granted, with beginner mods (I used a damaged Molten Impact for about a month before finally acquiring the regular variant) introduced, this is less of a problem than it was before, but still the really juicy mods for Loki are far out of reach for any beginner.

Even if one can learn to handle the frame, it would certainly be frustrating to be unable for a rather long time to actually improve the strengths of it rather than patch over the weaknesses.

[Keyse]

Valator said it nicely.

I started with Loki as well. I remember as soon as I got Trinity, Loki was put on the shelf. Ended up deleting him for a new frame (no plat trade back then) and finally came back to him after the trade chat came and I could buy plat from players.  Loki is cool, but not so great for starters just learning how to play. It was very frustrating, :)

[kazeyama]

I don't use any of the starter frames TBH. I started with mag and havn't played her at all since I got to level 30 and that was hundreds of hours ago. Same with Loki although ive got a loki prime now. 

 

With the new buffs excal is good though and easy to understand, same with volt the powers are very straight forward. I think ember could also be a starter since her kit is easier to understand than Mag's. I mean it took me forever to really get how bullet attractor and shield polarize really worked. Although the new abilities scaling with level  and having descriptions probably makes it easier for the new players. 

 

Also I never understood why Ash was on like one of the last planets when he is the most stereotypical ninja frame out of the entire cast. I mean he has a damage ability too would've made sense to replace loki with ash. 

[Crewell]

I'm a little cynical in my theory as to why it was removed. My theory is it was removed right before the Loki Prime pack csme out. This was done to help potential sales of the pack. That is the only real worl economic reason that makes sense to me.

[Hamsta]

Loki is just not viable as a beginner frame. Low defensive stats, no offensive abilities, Decoy is still Decoy, Invisibility is somewhat useful, Switch teleport completely useless for a beginner, Radial disarm not worth the energy.

 

.......I played for 1 and a half year with my nonpotato'd Starter Loki as my only warframe.

Loki was & is completely viable.

Decoy + Switch teleport back in the past used to allow you to bypass doors completely (including friendship doors) allowing decent players to speed run missions at a ridiculous rates thus allowing Loki players to farm faster & harder than other players. (No novas + warp / zorencoptering/ etc meant Loki was fastest there is.)

Edited November 5, 2014 by Hamsta

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

Oberon should really be a starter frame; he's perfectly balanced.