Blind Behaviors

[Yorinar]

I like it but I think the error rate of their tracking by sound should be increased based on that clip.  And I think other enemies firing nearby should cause them to become confused and fire even more wildly.  With all the sound of combat going on, being able to pick out where the Tenno's gun sound came from would be very difficult unless you've been trained for it or you're Daredevil.

[Evanescent]

I like it but I think the error rate of their tracking by sound should be increased based on that clip.  And I think other enemies firing nearby should cause them to become confused and fire even more wildly.  With all the sound of combat going on, being able to pick out where the Tenno's gun sound came from would be very difficult unless you've been trained for it or you're Daredevil.

+1

 

 

Also can you tweak it a bit so ally fire is prioritised over Tenno fire? 

[CY13ERPUNK]

Here's how blind capture targets behave after the changes:

 

 

And to people worried about the enemies shooting blind I think you can relax:

 

 

I'm not sure but I think the firing sounds of their teammates are actually confusing them!

 

Finally -- if you plan on using blinding powers a lot it might be better to bring a Kubrow instead of a sentinel -- tactical choices!

 

looking pretty nice Glen, good stuff, thanks for the extra time spent with it

[CriticalFumble]

+1

 

 

Also can you tweak it a bit so ally fire is prioritised over Tenno fire? 

I was actually wondering more about a noise level related threat system. 

 

Particularly, the audio radius of weapons fire minus the distance to the origin point.  The blinded target would fire on the greatest value heard in the last ~5 seconds.  It would give more of an element of chaos, and cause some thought in the player as to how they want to deal with that. 

[weezedog]

Blinded targets shouldn't be able to tell friend from foe. It should be more like chaos in that regard. They should fire at anything they hear.

Edited May 10, 2015 by weezedog

[Arkfall]

Wow... after skimming this thread I have two things to say...

 

One, This is a change to Radial Blind. This skill was never intended to cripple everything it hits perfectly, thus the changes that have happend over the corse of two years. Remeber folks, the Augment mod is most likly getting added into Radial Blind, which is a pretty damn big buff, no matter how to cut that.

 

and two, the hell is with the negitiveity?! There is just no sane reason for it all.

 

Lastly, DEGlen, Thanks for the change and thanks for noticing things like this in the game. I understand this has shot you way "Over-budget" but Budget sometimes needs to understand the cost of business. Budget kills games just as much as the players in that community.

[nickelshark]

Here's how blind capture targets behave after the changes:

 

 

And to people worried about the enemies shooting blind I think you can relax:

 

 

I'm not sure but I think the firing sounds of their teammates are actually confusing them!

 

Finally -- if you plan on using blinding powers a lot it might be better to bring a Kubrow instead of a sentinel -- tactical choices!

Looking foward to these changes. Although I think it would be pretty funny if they just spun in circles....

 

Anywho, smarter AI that isn't so derp derp is always welcome.

[fatpig84]

At least this is something to look forward to.

Makes RB worth using as you have to take a risk for it to work.

 

But able to clarify what is the exact distance on the enemies hearing ?

[yles9056]

If enemy is still able to shoot me just by hearing without any accuracy reduction or delay, that means there isn't much difference between blinded enemy and normal enemy. Besides, blind abilities should be more than just stopping enemy from throwing grenades.

Edited May 10, 2015 by yles9056

[Kthal]

One thought on the accuracy reduction - make them take 0.5 seconds to process sounds. That way, even if they have flawless accuracy, it is fairly simple to avoid their fire, while maintaining the immersive effect of their panic fire.

[Evanescent]

One thought on the accuracy reduction - make them take 0.5 seconds to process sounds. That way, even if they have flawless accuracy, it is fairly simple to avoid their fire, while maintaining the immersive effect of their panic fire.

That's a nice idea!

[JustAn0ther]

Wait wait so your telling me that there working on making enemy's acting more realistically to being blinded in a game where explosive weapons are silent? god help us all.

 

I think you might be misunderstanding what was meant by things like "Penta is silent". The actual act of shooting the grenade is silent, because yeah it doesn't make that much noise and even in real life it'd be like a small "fwoomp". However, the actual explosion that's caused on detonation is not silent and can be heard by enemies.

[CapedBaldy]

OMG did you even read it? They won't throw grenades any more BUFF.

No bullets>bullets

 

Grenades aren't even thrown that often during radial blind.

 

It's definitely a nerf, don't try and sugar coat it. It may be a necessary one, but it's still a nerf.

[HawKish]

Nice.

Radial Blind for days.

[tris1]

Finally some love for Excalibur but I'm going to say everyone noticed about how blinded worked and what was wrong with it but no one listens however I will well done

[Drufo]

I love this change! It gives a more realistic feel of the ability and, most important, makes sense...

[MercurialAirSpectre]

cool cool gg

[Othergrunty]

Oh nice.

 

However seeing how you got the idea for this change, there also seems to be a general problem with stuns (like from Valkyr's Paralysis, melee staggering and jump kicks) sometimes simply not working on enemies when they perform certain animations.

 

It seems the animations simply overrides the command for the enemy to get knocked down or go into stunned mode.

 

I noticed that occasionaly for a while, but during False Profit it happend quite frequently with the Bursars.

 

I'm not sure about the exactly requirements for the effect to be ignored though.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Othergrunty

[Tsoe]

thooses  chnges look badass

 

 

sound reaction and so....

 

 

Plz add friendly fire ... because if not its non sense lol

 

cool thx

 

 

yu know ... i want them to shoot grenade randomly and F.killthemself

 

 

will make Blinders think twice... and Grineers.. idk.. do they think?

Edited May 10, 2015 by Tsoe

[tris1]

It's still kinda unreliable and should react to there team firing so closet enemy shooting is the one they try and fire at. Still got bad mechanics for not reliable blinding targets that you see or when they can see you

[UltimateSpinDash]

Great job Glen!

[MichaelSD]

Tired of this argument; people routinely confuse realism with logic. If something wants to be taken seriously it needs to take place in a world that is governed by rules. A mage might be able to do something supernatural like shoot fire from their hands, but we'd still expect the result of that fire to behave as fire does. Warframe follows similar logic. 

 

And if I saw a Grineer or Corpus blindly fumbling or "feeling" their way towards cover I would not hesitate to put a sword in the back of their spine. Not that it necessarily matters what you would do as you are not the genetic template for the Grineer. Most people who are suddenly blinded with the knowledge that an insane demi-god is bearing down on them are probably going to realistically panic. 

 

Logic in a space ninja game?. We had this discussion on this forum a dozen time. There is no logic in Tenno's power. Radial Blind could put bunny ears on the enemy and it would be logical.

The usability of the power does not change a bit with this change. It is cosmetic. Claiming it will make the Excalibur it will not make the frame melee worthy at all.

[Wereservetheright]

I have a question.

 

I thought there are already enemies that can "attack nearby targets using sounds to guide where they think the enemy is".

 

For example, the Shield Lancers

prove:

 

So will there be any difference between the New Blind Behaviors and the behavior of the shield lancers right now?

Edited May 10, 2015 by Wereservetheright

[MichaelSD]

It's a buff and nerf at the same time I guess.

 

On one hand, now you are eligible to be shot. Prior, if the enemy was blinded, no matter what, they wouldn't shoot you. Now there is a chance you could die by that level 60 blinded Bombard or whoever. Also, according to Glen (if I understand this correctly) no more Stealth Dmg Multiplier (?).

 

This is the problem. We got an already unreliable power and now, even if it works on the enemy, it allows the enemy a chance to shot us. In exchange the enemy won't run behind cover. If this is not a nerf, what is?

[ThePresident777]

After you play a game for a while, the initial positive feels begin to wear off and you start to notice all the flaws, such as blind enemies not acting blind and the experience deteriorates more rapidly.  Usually games are kept alive as long as possible with more of the same until the players have had enough.  It seems very rare in my experience that developers actually break out of this rut and truely develope their games, but instead cut and run to the next new shiney rehash, complete with all the same disfunctional code from the last game, depending on the artists to keep things fresh.  (Take OEI for example, their path finding and stealth never improve).

 

So, kudos to [DE]Glen for making real improvement in game play, for actually developing a game.  Most developers are content to stay in the ruts for ever, it seems to me.