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July 3Rd: Community Hot Topics!


Community Hot Topics!  

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I don't like the nerf to greedy pull because it is the wrong solution to a problem that will continue, although I don't think the nerf is a bad idea I would say that I think it is really removing the main reason why people used greedy pull. People will find other ways to fuel mesa with energy, most likely a combination of consumables and gathering enemy's and killing them close to mesa so she can get nearby energy.


To quote Mogamu ( and really any player who has played any mmo for a while ), "

"There will always be a Loot Cave."            
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On Greedy Pull:


Mesa is the root problem of Greedy pull by her mere existence.

Now Mag will be replaced by Trin. This nerf does nothing other than make people ditch greedy from their builds or ditch mag once again.

And all of these problems are caused by the game being a frustrating grindy RNG fest. So grindy it's giving korean grinders a run for their money.

So eh. Sure nerf Greedy pull. Not gonna do much.


On Frost:


I don't use him that much. As long as Chilling Globe stays the same I'm good.




I don't play it and Parkour 2.0 won't make me play it.

I dunno if I'll ever play PVP. I've never tried it. Not PVP 1.0. Not Dark Sector PVP. None of it.


Corrupted mods:


No. I don't want more. Because they require teamwork to get.

I play solo so getting Corrupted mods is a giant pain.

Make it so I can get them alone with 100% certainty and then sure I'll change my tune.

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The Greedy pull nerf is necessary, but won't be sufficient on it's own, because Trinity (don't touch her, she is fine as she is), Energy Pizzas and the fact that Peacemaker itself promotes camping in one place while having Mesa aimbot everything.


More corrupted mods: Sure, but please split up the pool a little. There are already 22 Mods in one source, even without any weighting it's already a huge chore to get the one you need, especially since it requires a full team to be effective.

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In light of DE's Greedy Pull proposal (only Mag can pull her share of pickups), please consider also making resources and mods similar to credits, where one player picking them up distributes the resources and mods to the whole squad.


Ammo, Health and Energy Orbs remain client-side (each player has their own instance of those pickups, like how it is now), so with DE's Greedy Pull change, Mag cannot pull her allies' share. This way, Mag can still collect the needed resources and mods for her squad, while not continue to contribute to the stand-in-place-and-spam-abilities setups made for Draco and the like.


Players that dislike Greedy Mags moving their ammo, health, and energy around when they need them most, like a Nekros making a Health Orb safety net, can relax and not be annoyed.


This also makes it so the player experience is more fluid, as one player discovering a rare resource or mod means the whole team gets it. They can focus on returning to combat and have fun without needing to backtrack for loots, but having ammo, health and energy scattered about also promotes run & gun play as we know it.

Excellent suggestion I would love to see this happen.
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That would be a great change to the game as a whole and would especially benefit Archwing with the Limbo Theorem Fragments, Tellurium and mods that fly 18km away for clients.


No, it wouldn't. It would make people even more lazy. The Devs are trying to eliminate Lazyframe from the game so people actually have to play it. Not make it more prevalent.

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As far as Greedy Pull is concerned i only wonder if the nerf will leave any reason for anyone to use the augment afterwards.


By all means nerf it, but it must have something to convince players to use it for any reason other than just having an open slot and nothing else to fill it. Chance to spawn ammo/resources from hit enemies perhaps? Fits the name if nothing else.


And more corrupted mods means more biuld possibilities, which i am always in favour of.

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On greedy pull: I don't think this change is sufficient, because it doesn't address the root cause of the problem. To be frank, draco farming existed before greedy pull, and it will continue to do so for so long as it is the most profitable way to "play" the game. If not Draco, then Viver. If not Viver, then Xini.


In order to spread out players across mission types, the various non-endless mission types need to be made a lot more rewarding than they are now.


On PvP and Parkour 2.0: Maybe. Right now, what keeps me from playing Conclave is how everyone copters around the map. If that gets changed, I might play PvP more. But honestly, PvE is my favored gametype.

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Mag nerf doesn't solve anything. It's a cheap, short-sighted move. What's going to be next?

Mesa nerf?

Trinity nerf? (oh god)

Maybe Saryn? Or Frost? Let's nerf Ember while we're at it.


Parkour 2.0 won't make me want to play Conclave. I don't know why it would. I tried conclave and I didn't really like it.


More Corrupted mods? I don't know.

It would probably end up with devs nerfing more frames because they would become "2 stronk", more people would be crying for nerfs.

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Greedy Pull:

Its Okay with the upcoming changes, its going to limit the Over-use, and "xploit" that cause...


No Opinion... 


Conclave and parkour 2.0:

On this i can say, I play Conclaves, and i dont like the way on how is it right now, most of the movement and speed depends of the melee weapon, and that make a unbalance on a lot of aspects, and melee is the most affected on that, fast speed make melees Overpowered for how easy someone can go to the target.
Parkour 2.0, limiting the fast speed its going to put a little more balanced on both aspects of the game, making it less frustrating that force you to choose X melee to be fast.
So, Yes, im okay with the upcoming changes on parkour, i will going to play a lot more when that comes...



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I think the Greedy Pull change is great: It gets old seeing the same 4 Warframes grouping up for farming: it bothers me that it has become "the method."  I recently had a clanmate try to drag me to one of these farming sessions, and I declined: breaking a game down into static roles sucks the fun out of it.  Yes, we could get a crazy amount of credits, mods and resources: but if I wanted to stand in one place for an hour, I'd go renew my license at the DMV.  Some players will complain about the nerf, but I for one agree with it.  We were meant to be ninjas after all, not statues.

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I never do Draco so I don't really care much about GMag.


Frost looks fine, although I think we should get rid of avalanche and get something else.


PvP in conclave I think is only fast with certain weapons.


I would love to see how veterans adapt to parkour 2.0


No opinion on corrupted mods.

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I stopped playing warframe about 3 months ago. Every now and again, I check in to see if anything around here has changed for the better or for things to come back and try.

The latest community hot topics is always a great place to look, as it includes some opinions of the community to some changes DE is wanting to make.

I don't think I'm coming back any time soon.

Yet again, DE would rather treat another symptom of the same major issue they have been ignoring for months.

Adding Orokin Cells to the drop tables of T3 and T4 rewards did several things. It further polluted drop tables DE claimed to wanted to clean up. It pushed people away from the sorry excuse of endgame that late Void play was. In turn, it killed the little endgame we had. There has been continuous proof that the nature of Warframe is to make everything about rewards, and not so much about the mission itself. Look at the most played missions. They are all the most rewarding. So, why take the reward from the intended late\endgame?

One of the biggest things this addition of the orokin cells did was was kill the largest source of Fusion Cores. This has resulted in a lot of attempts by the community to make the worsened farm easier by employing mods and other such methods.

As a result of the heightened farming, DE has either nerfed or removed anything related to any of the related farming incidents. Removing and nerfing enjoyable content, rather than fixing the issue that caused people to seek out these methods so actively.

So, now, instead of balancing the mod they designed to do what it does, they are removing the features that make it unique and useful. Instead of toning the feature down, they are straight up removing it. I don't know if it's because DE doesn't know how to balance content or if it's because it's easier to nerf it rather than balance it. So, now, Mag is going back in to storage for a lot of people, and another useful mod that should have been taken care of so that we could use (instead of abuse) is being butchered.

This sort of nerf doesn't just fix farming rates to the point DE wants them, it also hurts the games content and playability.

I'm not coming back to Warframe until DE can decide if it wants to hurt the game or fix it. It's not really a threat, and DE won't really feel the loss of one customer. This isn't a complaint about my favorite mod or frame, as I haven't cared for Warframe in months, just the observations of someone looking for a reason to care about the game again. Good luck to you all.

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Greedy Pull

The idea of making it simply not work on energy pods at all, is worth discussing at gameplay design level.


Either way: Greedy Pull must not ignore line of sight. This is a part of why it's so broken.


Frost Changes

* Freeze Change:  I thought guaranteed cold procs within AOE was also on the table? That was my favorite part of the upgrade.  Creating a slow-zone on impact is nice too, but cold procs are going to affect everybody within range for 6 seconds instead of having variable effectiveness on enemies based on how close to an edge they were.



* Ice Wave: Cone shaped AOE an improvement. More practical for large and outdoor areas.  Still wish for push/ragdoll ala slow moving ice-flavored Sonic Boom though. The flat damage value means the primary reason to use Ice Wave is to apply cold procs, which is less useful as a crowd control measure than actually pushing enemies enemies away and knocking them down.



* Snow Globe: Hard to predict how well this going to work out to be honest. Tossing out enemies is cool, but we still don't have a full understanding of how the "max globes=4" behavior is going to affect us. Reserving judgement.



* Avalanche: Nope. If you're playing at a level where armor matters that much, you go in with a team of people that just passively strip armor from everything.  Also doesn't make sense thematically, since armor-debuff is Corrosion, and Saryn is the Corrosion frame.  Damage is still insulting low compared to other frames, and since it doesn't offer any new CC there's still never a good reason to cast this past enemy level 25ish.  It is very rare that Frost should ever use his #4 instead of his #3, since #3 actually prevents damage and has crowd control instead of being what amounts to a 3 second stun.


Basically everything I could suggest to do to give him a useful and fun #4 power without just overlapping with his other powers involves making it Not-Avalanche.



* Passive: Nope. Already wrote a thread about this.



Parkour 2.0

Do not have or want PVP experience.


Corrupted Mods

What would I add?

* Carapace: Adds base armor value, reduces movement seped

* Methodical Repeater: For full automatic secondaries: Multiplies final damage, reduces final fire rate. Maxes out at (+100% damage, -50% fire rate).  Basically aimed at making things like dual machine pistols more practical.

* Lightfinger: Slightly reduces magazine capacity, dramatically increases reload speed.

* Feral: Kubrow/Catbrow mod, significantly increases armor, speed, damage, HP, at the cost of making them use their abilities less often.


What would I change?

* Tainted Mag/Tainted Clip/Burdened Mag:  should end up at higher magazine size bonus. This mod doesn't actually gain you anything if you look at "rounds reloaded per second", all it does is make your reloads more painful. Cannot compete with just adding more damage mods.


Fleeting Expertise is... important. On the one hand this mod is at the center of a lot of the more abusive and game-breaking configurations players use.  But on the other hand, for most non-damaging abilities, the possibility to use our powers 4x more freely "makes" the warframe and lets us feel like we're in control instead of struggling to find energy all the time. :-/   Fleeting should probably be changed, but only as part of a comprehensive reexamination of powers and power costs.

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No, it wouldn't. It would make people even more lazy. The Devs are trying to eliminate Lazyframe from the game so people actually have to play it. Not make it more prevalent.


There's a BIG difference between me being lazy and me not wanting to fly 18km for a mod.  (The difference being that I will be forcibly extracted before I even get within 12km of that mod.) 


Credits are currently shared among the whole team so why not resources/mods too?  Ammo, energy and health were not included in the proposal so people will still need to put effort in to get those.

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Peacemaker is the main problem, greedy pull is just a way to provide energy for Mesa's these days.


People will find other sources of energy for Peacemaker if you nerf greedy pull, thats all.

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Corrupted mods were voted as the most balanced. That doesn't, at all, mean people think they are balanced, because when I last looked at the topic no option had received even 5% of the prior question's votes as being balanced, despite the fact that people could vote multiple times.

Corrupted efficiency should be reverted to the way efficiency used to work. When ultimates can cost as little as a first ability, the one gating mechanic for those powers has been broken. I'd argue that corrupted mods shouldn't be stackable with the base ones at all (same goes for dual stat ones) as it would make them real choices. More powerful mod with drawbacks or weaker one without it, or dual one with two weaker aspects?

I just checked the hot topics again, and the only conclusion I could come to is that no one finds anything in Warframe balanced. Dual stat and syndicate mods, the top two in votes, got under 30% of the prior question's total vote. Corrupted mods were under 25%. Everything else was down from there.

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New Corrupted Mods:

When we discussed balance in the last Community Hot Topics, Corrupted Mods were voted one of the best balanced aspects of Warframe. The source thread by PUR3K1LL3R, suggests some new Corrupted Mods to round out the currently available options. If you were to create new Corrupted Mods, what would you make? What stats would they modify? Are there any Corrupted stat combinations that you think would be too powerful? Would you make any changes to the current Corrupted Mods? 


I would say Corrupted Mods mostly missed their mark. Many frames can use them without feeling the drawbacks if their abilities don't interact with the drawbacks, such as using Fleeting Expertise on a frame/build that isn't worried about duration. 


If we added a new efficiency mod that was a tradeoff for, range lets say, this would just be a straight buff from the perspective of a frame that doesn't care about range and the whole collection of Corrupted mods would become less "corrupting" as more and more frames become able to cherry pick the mods with drawbacks that don't bother them.


I know I'm a broken record about this conditional mod stuff, but I really think that's the only way to add more corrupted mods if all mods must apply to all frames. An example would be:


Enforced Efficiency (Warframe)

3sec after using an ability, 50% of power is refunded if at least three targets have been affected. 50% of power spent is drained again instead if three targets have not been affected.




All In (Warframe)

-100% Efficiency. If an ability defeats an enemy or affects at least 3 targets within 5sec of use, 200% of power used is refunded.

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OMG not more corrupted mods the vault thing is TERRIBLE. If your going to make more corrupted mods at least add more ways to obtain them. Like maybe playing Defense missions in the derelict while everyone is wearing a key unlocks a chance to gain a corrupted mod if you have on a key that matches the needs of the mod to be able to have it for the defense mission.


As it is I would rather have more Nightmare mods. NOT Corrupted mods.

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Do you think the Greedy Pull change is sufficient?

We all saw that coming. And i'm surprised it took you so long to do something about it. It was a broken mechanic that trivialized farming and ability spam tactics on various mission types. But players will simply go back to Trinity or Limbo to get energy for their Turrets and Nukers now. So that won't fix the problem, will just make people stop using Mag for that.
How do you feel about the upcoming Frost changes?

Frost changes are cool.
Pvpers, do you think movement is too fast in Conclave?

Hell no. Conclave 1.0 was fast. With Rush and Fury mods, and fast copter weapons (Tipedo, Scoliac, etc) on old Europa where the flat walls allowed us to perform wallrun slingshots. Conclave 2.0 is slow. There are no sprint speed or attack speed mods for melee, and our roster of melee weapons for mobility are limited. If anything, movement should be faster. 
PvPers, are you excited for Parkour 2.0 in Conclave?

Yes, but i must criticize a few things.

Judging from what i've seen and read: Not fluid, too slow. Its an alternative to wall runs, it is not an alternative to copter/directional. Double jumps are cool but the animations are bad. I prefer to believe that what we've seen in Devstream #55 is not the final version of what we will get, so i expect to be more polished before release. I really hope they increase the speed of the maneuvers because man that's gonna slow us down a lot.
I like the idea of grabbing a wall and do directional jumps off walls and along walls. I don't like how we can latch into a wall and stay hanging there forever, but we can't run along it unless you jump along it, not cool. Latched wall runs like what we've seen in Devstream #52 were cool, i dunno why you abandoned this idea. I know we can jump along the wall but its not the same thing.

Steve said on Twitter that "jump-centric means it can be used anywhere". I can't imagine the parkour happening without some adjustments on the Conclave maps. I keep saying we need long flat walls opposed to flat objects and structures for this to work. But Steve said on twitter that is the exact opposite, that we will not need flat walls to perform parkour anymore. Well if that's the case then it will be great. Because right now the Conclave maps are filled with objects obstructing the walls so we can't really use wallruns like old Europa on PvP 1.0, that's why everyone just copter/directional.

I believe Parkour 2.0 will offer us an alternative to move efficiently, i am looking forward to explore this new mechanic and mastering its practice in Conclave.

I have a topic about Parkour 2.0 and how it will affect PvP, maybe it could be added to the source topics on the list. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/477056-doomthread-parkour-20-and-how-it-will-affect-pvp/
And this other topic adresses the issue of blocking, and how it will (it must) be changed with the removal of Stamina that will come with Parkour 2.0 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/482337-blocking-had-better-not-be-infinite-once-stamina-is-removed/

If you’re not a PvPer, do you think the Parkour 2.0 changes will make you want to play Conclave?

I have been playing Conclave since it came out on Update 10 and PvP is the only reason i play Warframe, i will play Conclave regardless of what's changed.

I see that this poll is very focused on the players that complain about the speed in Conclave, and what you can do to get them to play Conclave. Like i said in the source hot topic, once you nerf copter/directional, players will continue to blame other things for getting killed. So it is a shame that you are shaping the game to please players that dislike PvP, instead of making the game more enjoyable to the ones that likes PvP. 

I am an avid Conclave player, that is basically all i have been doing in the game for a couple of years, and in my opinon the PvP is pretty balanced right now there is nothing too powerful or too weak, there is nothing that can't be countered. I have no problems to deal with melee spam, i have no problem to deal with ability spam, and i have no problem to deal with coptering/directional in PvP, that is only a problem for players who can't do it themselves and/or can't counter it. But here we are, coptering/directional will change, and the endless cycle of players blaming the game because they are bad, will continue.

I believe Parkour 2.0 will backlash on these players complaining about speed, it will just make players with good aim and fast reflexes even better, since people will not be able to immediately copter away when they take damage. And these same players will carry on with their usual unfounded ''nerf plz'' topics, and tell you that your game is broken and PvP should not exist. 
Would you like more corrupted mods?

I would like Corrupted mods available for Conclave. That counts?
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Greedy Pull

What AlphaHorseman said on the first page: Treat the actual disease, not just the symptoms. We play the way we do, because any other way is too slow, boring and tedious. Make gameplay fun and rewarding instead, not just about RNG and work.


Frost Rework

I think the changes are ok, if a bit ... lazy? They don't really solve all his issues either.


His passive sounds useless, considering Snow Globe etc. The passives need a good thinking in the first place, don't just tack random crap on (like on Excalibur, pidgeonholing him into using specific melee weapons, boo!). Mirage and Zephyr have good neutral passives, Mesa's is decent too (the secondary passives, not the "no-melee" bonus, it's useless).


Freeze - AoE patch of cold sounds neat, if a bit gimmicky (and what about Ice Wave Impedence?). As long as it always applies a cold patch/area, no matter where it lands (like, if you hit an ENEMY with it), it will be a decent addition. If it did guaranteed freezing of enemies upon the impact AoE too, that'd be a great change, especially if the freezing was purely timebased.


Ice Wave - Sounds kinda nice, but it would be nicer if THIS was the ability that pushed enemies backwards (rather than tacking that on Snow Globe). Would give it more defined utility. And this feels like it should be his most damaging ability, considering its lesser attack area and soft CC.


Snow Globe - Needs a whole lot more: Pushback thing sounds unnecessary though (should be on Ice Wave, or even Avalanche). 4 globe limit sounds fine, as long as we can go past that cap (as in: summoning a 5th globe makes the oldest globe disappear). More visibility inside, some way to gauge its health and/or when it breaks, those are important too.

And this power and its stationary placement is also the reason why he is used mainly just for defensive games, rather than in general gameplay. If you could change it like the following way, it could make Frost more used in other missions too:

Upon cast, Frost summons a Snow Globe "attached" to him (similar to Frost eximus), but in a smaller size compared to regular Snow Globes (further affected by Power Range ofc). Pressing it again then puts it stationarily in the world, just like now, which also increases its size to its current size

(This follow-or-place-mechanic could also be done to Volt's Electric Shield, and to Oberon's Hallowed Ground too, if reworked a bit, for added mobility, flexibility and FUN gameplay).


Avalanche - *sigh* ... Armor reduction? This bandaid AGAIN? Why not just fix armor in the first place? Ice explosions sounded nice, but they have the same crappy system as Oberon's Reckoning: Requiring to kill with it. That's just such a bad mechanic. If Avalanche instead also froze enemies briefly, say, for 4 seconds, unfreezing either by the enemy dieing, the timer expiring or if its hurt by X amount of non-Avalanche-damage (this "break early" mechanic is fine on Avalanche, making it feel more like a panic button), then their ice shatters dealing AoE damage. THAT is much better, since it doesn't rely on killing with the ability at all. (Same goes for Oberon's Reckoning, it should debuff enemies upon lifting them, so if they die by Reckoning or X seconds after cast, the health orbs spawn)


Corrupted Mods

Oh boy, where to start?

First of all, I'd like to point out that Corrupted mods have a HUGE potential for bringing actual choices into the modding system. Right now, not so much. Why? Since they STACK with their regular counterparts (such as Serration PLUS Heavy Caliber). If I'd make a changes to Corrupted mods, I'd do this:

1) Corrupted mods do not stack with the regular counterpart (such as Serration OR Heavy Caliber, but not both)

2) Corrupted mods should preferably have the same amount of ranks and modpoint costs as the regular mod does

3) Corrupted mods ofc still have a penalty on them, but their positive stat should always be greater than the regular mod's bonus (and preferably better than Primed mods too, even if just a bit). Example: Serration could give max 55% damage bonus, but Heavy Caliber gives you up to 77% bonus, although with a 33% accuracy penalty. This leaves you an actual CHOICE! This means you need to buff and/or revamp a whole bunch of Corrupt mods too (such as Magnum Force, Hollow Point, Critical Delay etc etc)


So, if you can get those changes in, I say, sure, bring on more Corrupted mods. If not, no, please don't add more imbalance.

Some new examples:

* Add both regular accuracy mods as well as corrupted accuracy mods (Tainted Shell exists for shotguns already, and Vile Precision could become the corrupt one for rifles, considering its is completely useless with Stabilizer's existance...)

* Nerf regular multishot mods (30% max, just like in Archwing?) and add corrupted multishot mods (100% multishot, but with a 36% total damage penalty or more). Choice, remember?

* Corrupt critical damage mods with a status-chance penalty


You know what, here is a mod rebalancing+idea thread for you, DE. You need it.

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Do you think the Greedy Pull change is sufficient?


Eh, they're great and all, but I really don't think they're going to fix anything. After all, before there was greedy Mag, there was EV Trin. Once these changes roll out, people will just go back to Trinity, Limbo and Energy restores and continue with their endless Draco/Viver/Xini farming.


What I'd really like to see from is a change that made Greedy Pull pull Ammo, Health and Energy Orbs for Mag only. No more pulling Orbs for the rest of the team. This way, Mag can collect Resources and Mods for her squad without contributing to the turret style gameplay that's become so prevalent these days.


How do you feel about the upcoming Frost changes?


His 2 and 3 are looking really good.

I'm not too excited about the Armor reduction on his 4 because most teams running missions against Grineer or Corrupted, where you really need Armor reduction, just use 4x Corrosive Projection. What Avalanche really needs is a guaranteed freeze proc on anything hit by it that doesn't die. Maybe 10 seconds regardless of rank? That would make Avalanche a decent CC power and a good panic button for when Snowglobe isn't enough.


PvPers, do you think movement is too fast in Conclave?


I've been playing Conclave quite a bit lately, and in most matches, the movement speed is pretty good.

It's when I get into matches with other hardcore PvPers that the current movement system becomes waaay too fast with people coptering/wallflinging from one end of the map to the other in 2-3 seconds. This is especially bad in Capture the Cephalon where a match can be won in under a minute, with no kills obtained from either side.


PvPers, are you excited for Parkour 2.0 in Conclave?


I for one am excited for the new changes. They look like they'll give me a better, albeit slower, way to control my movement and momentum.


If you’re not a PvPer, do you think the Parkour 2.0 changes will make you want to play Conclave?


Maybe. Two of the main issues a lot of people I know have with Conclave is both the insane movement speed and how many players spend an entire match doing literally nothing but Coptering from one base to another in Capture the Cephalon. 


Would you like more Corrupted Mods?


Yes, I would like more Corrupted Mods ONLY IF there were more interesting ways to obtain them than by just grinding

Derelict Exterminate over and over for hours at a time to get the Mod I want.

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