You Know De, As A Grand Master Founder Who's Played Since Closed Beta And Was Getting Kinda Bored...

[WhiteCopain]

I really gota say, hats off to your raid design team. From the very start I never bothered with Law of Retribution because the little you showed on the Devstream didn't impress me (I considered it a step up, just not on the level of what I was doing when I raided in WoW or FF14 or so on in complication). When I saw the video Mogamu put out on the Golem, I clicked it thinking it'd be a real boring tank and spank fight that wouldn't really be too much deeper then the normal Golem... I just expected maybe you'd fly into the tunnel, shoot something, leave, and that'd be it.

 

 

I was really pleasantly surprised by the amount of detail and care that went into the raid golem fight. It was filled with a lot of complicated things that would likely take people multiple times to really understand, but once they understood, become clear. The rewards are very much enough to make it worth it, without being overpowered.

 

DE, my imaginary hat is off to you and your team. As someone who stopped playing much, I have a new found drive to play the game more and get geared up proper and find a team to raid. I want to talk more about the game and show that you guys are going above and beyond to really show that you can make an actual difficult fight, not one with just beefed up numbers like a LOT of games make the mistake in doing. And not only that, but you really embraced YOUR game in doing it. The raid presented wouldn't work well without the tools that you have in this game and only this game. To do that and make it so complicated is top tier design and makes me want to shower you with money again to see if you'll keep impressing me.

 

 

 

For those who haven't seen Mogamu's video on it, showing off the details, here you go:

[Girthpanda]

Couldn't have said it any better. DE is surpassing any and all expectations I have, on a daily basis.

 

+9001

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I saw it and was like "whoa... that's really complicated".

 

honestly though, I think it's TOO complicated, people who want Arcanes will likely stick to LoR, and only the people wanting a challenge will bother doing this one.

[SilentMobius]

I like DE, and I'm happy the OP found something they enjoy.

 

Doesn't change the fact that IMHO "raids" or any content that forces teaming (Especially with an "obey or die" systems) is a toxic mechanic.

 

If your content is designed such that it's more fun with more people then people will team naturally. Forcing people together because you can't be bothered to scale encounters is... disappointing at best.

 

...And locking an entire reward type behind forced teaming makes the whole thing even worse.

 

Simply put: The more of this that happens the less I want to play.

[AXCrusnik]

I saw it and was like "whoa... that's really complicated".

 

honestly though, I think it's TOO complicated, people who want Arcanes will likely stick to LoR, and only the people wanting a challenge will bother doing this one.

Unless they want JV specific Arcanes because (as someone mentioned in your thread about the JV) LoR and JV have a completely different set of arcanes as their rewards.

 

Also once you run it once or twice it's really not that overly complicated. Fill some vapes, break a barrier, fill, open next area, fill, shoot a thing and leave to fight Golem then repeat x2

Edited November 19, 2015 by AXCrusnik

[Gemini_Jenvas]

too bad nobody likes archwing

 

after watching the whole video I gotta add:

 

WTF? I would have liked to see the meeting where they planned this. Maybe someone lost the notes on the interesting gameplay and just replaced it with a few pages of "activate vaporizer, hack console"...

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jenvas1306

[DoomFruit]

The big problem I have with the Jordas raid is that anyone whacking balls around outside has absolutely no idea what's going on inside and as such can't learn what to do by watching where the other players go. With the Hek raid, the players and their actions are all visible to each other and so it's much easier for the uninitiated.

[Tsoe]

i d like to do it but it's really hard to find a squad

[(PSN)bluerazorsedge]

I like DE, and I'm happy the OP found something they enjoy.

Doesn't change the fact that IMHO "raids" or any content that forces teaming (Especially with an "obey or die" systems) is a toxic mechanic.

If your content is designed such that it's more fun with more people then people will team naturally. Forcing people together because you can't be bothered to scale encounters is... disappointing at best.

...And locking an entire reward type behind forced teaming makes the whole thing even worse.

Simply put: The more of this that happens the less I want to play.

I totally agree with this.

[BPNPC]

The LoR raid was alright but JV raid is awful. I suggest you actually, you know, play JV before making judgement on it. The third stage is complicated yes, but it's literally all about memorization - it's complicated in the way memorizing a phone book is complicated, and equally as fun.

[AM-Bunny]

Not a fan of the Raids myself. At all. Mostly for the reasons SilentMobius outlined. 

 

Like most veteran Warframe players, I find myself struggling with new goals, but I'm not even tempted with Raids. They're always these silly puzzles with a timer that kills you in 20 seconds along with 100 enemies shooting you from every direction. It only works if everyone is experienced and on the same page, so you spend more time yelling at people trying to get them to do this extremely specific thing at this specific time, and it just creates a hostile, uninviting environment.

 

I like the idea of Raids, and teamplay, but I really don't like the method that they've employed for these two Raids.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

I haven't played JV but if it's like LOR then no its not fun...it's just memorizing what buttons to push and pads to stand on and then CC your way to victory and kill the boss in the most underwhelming fight ever.

Warframe is a great game but the Raids are mediocre at best. Or at least LOR is. I'll reserve my final Verdict for JV when I play it. But I have a bad feeling

[VDeorsum]

The problems for me are the bugs...really, my team abort cause bugs more that for other reasons.

 

Sadly for me this raid it's not in beta but in alpha. I really hope that they fix it soon

Edited November 19, 2015 by VDeorsum

[Buzkyl]

My main thing about the raid is that it's not newplayer friendly. And by new player i mean experienced raiders.

 

It's full of cheap knock-backs and insta-kills. It gives little to no context on what to do nor even attempt to hint you towards the right direction.And when you're going to force teamwork onto inexperience player without guiding them accordingly, you're going to turn away alot of people.

 

Now before you say "It's not meant to be noob friendly" then why does the last raid have a nightmare version if it's suppose to be made for vets already?

 

 

I personally would want to do the raid however every PuG group wants experience players so sadly, none for me.

[Vargras]

I saw it and was like "whoa... that's really complicated".

 

honestly though, I think it's TOO complicated, people who want Arcanes will likely stick to LoR, and only the people wanting a challenge will bother doing this one.

Verdict has its own set of arcanes compared to Retribution.

 

They'll have to trade for the Verdict arcanes if they want them.

[MagPrime]

If you do the raids for fun, they're pretty neat.  If you're grinding them, they suck. : / 

[FoxyKabam]

never tried a raid and I probably never will with the 4 player min. team rule

hopefully sorties will be solo/duo friendly, but thats still a part of the game I'm just locked out of

(most people i can play with is three thanks to internet)

(three inside my house)

[RagDollRat]

#FounderClub

[PapaFragolino]

All I see when I play raids is just a long and boring space-sudoku with terrible rewards. I guess people actually prefer puzzles over gameplay.

[Archenius]

too bad nobody likes archwing

 

after watching the whole video I gotta add:

 

WTF? I would have liked to see the meeting where they planned this. Maybe someone lost the notes on the interesting gameplay and just replaced it with a few pages of "activate vaporizer, hack console"...

correction most of of the community don't like archwing

[Inarticulate]

correction most of of the community don't like archwing

Correction: the people in the community that don't like Archwing are loud.

[(PSN)Bloody_Roxas]

Raid awesome

[Darzk]

All I see when I play raids is just a long and boring space-sudoku with terrible rewards. I guess people actually prefer puzzles over gameplay.

 

That's my biggest issue with the raids atm. It's not a group of players teaming up to take on extremely powerful, challenging enemies, it's a bunch of players spamming abilities while trying to do puzzles, and getting pissed off at each other instead of enjoying slaughtering stuff for loot. It doesn't fit the 'feel' of Warframe at all, imo.

 

LoR is... reasonable, at least it's a half fun boss fight at the end, the puzzles are quick and don't require memorization of steps, and the whole mission is pretty quick (~30 mins in a half-decent pug) with pretty good rewards, especially with the rare/reinforced containers.

 

JV is long and boring so far, and locked behind a material farm which is extremely punishing for players without an active clan. Its actually pretty easy if you can remember where everything is (most of my issues are in the last phase) but it takes forever. The length of the hacks in earlier phases are wayy too long; if you can maintain the vaporizers for a minute, there's no need to keep doing it for longer and longer, no new challenges presented. Even with all of the consoles active it takes way too long. And the 3-strike 'rule' extends the length 'artificially', not really adding any challenge (done it once can easily do it 3 times) although admittedly making the inside group's job memorizing the map layouts 'harder'. But as someone above pointed out, it's just harder to memorize what to do, it's not any harder to actually do it.

 

Right now JV takes like 2 hours; obviously we'll get it down to maybe half that when everyone knows exactly what to do. But the work:reward ratio is terrible, even if you want the new Arcanes it's easier/more efficient to be patient and farm for different valued objects to trade with the poor sods running JV.

[Archenius]

Correction: the people in the community that don't like Archwing are loud.

exactly they are really loud

[bejuizb]

The raids to me don't really make sense from a gameplay perspective, but it's a personal gripe. Why would I want 10 people to solve a puzzle? Too many cooks not only spoil the broth, but ruin the atmosphere of the kitchen itself. Most of my raids have been full of disconnections, and people shouting and spamming abilities every which way, with half of the players running around like someone shot their pet dog. If I wanted a strategic mission with high level enemies, I'd like to have a Void Puzzle mode...not a damned raid. Hell, LoR doesn't even need you to kill a single enemy except for the final boss. That's not a raid. That's a "CC everything to the point where they might as well not exist puzzle solving 10 man lagfest bonanza".